Just General Chat About WoT

Nody

CHorn wrote: »

Looking back maybe I should have gone with vertical stabilizer instead of vents for rammer, vertical stabilizer, superheavy spall liner, but vents is my default for everything when possible. It's the ONLY heavy I put a spall liner on, everything else I find needs other kit more.

I used to be the same but it is sooo not worth it . The vents give you 2.3% in skill (yes they say 5% but the reality is once you hit 100% that's equal to 2.3%) which sounds still ok. Then you look at what that means; reload on a KV5 is 7 rounds a minute; or 8.57s per shell. The Vents improve that to 8.37s; so a whopping 0.2s improvement; how often have you gone longer than 0.2s between shots? Quite often I'd imagine; even in combat you're moving/turning/waiting for aim to stabilize etc. which means the reality those vets actually don't matter over more specialised equipment such as 10/20% aiming speed etc.

Tenger

But isn't 2.3% improvement in all crew skills overall more beneficial that +10% to one element? However it you only want improvement in one area then specialised equipment suits you more.

Nody

Tenger wrote: »

But isn't 2.3% improvement in all crew skills overall more beneficial that +10% to one element? However it you only want improvement in one area then specialised equipment suits you more.

Not really; you're not going to notice acceleration, radio, view range etc. and it is not likely to make a difference in the game (because if it did you'd go specialised equipment in the first place) but how long it takes you to aim each shot definitely will. In the end the two key things for the vent is aim time & reload time; reload you'd always go with a rammer and for aim time you should go with the appropriate equipment as well.

Think of it like this; how soon would you consider picking up Brother in Arms? It's the exact same thing yet BIA is usually 3rd or 4th skill (if at all) for most people because the specialisation is worth more.

In the end you end up with basically two versions:

1) Damage dealer - Rammer, aim time, view range (coated or static depending on playstyle or may be changed for Spall liner etc. depending on tank but if you can't spot the enemy you're risking being shot first)
2) Scout - View range, View range, Aim time

Why? Because WoT comes down to one of the two; either you spot for others or you dish out damage; preferably both :P

CHorn

Nody wrote: »

The vents give you 2.3% in skill (yes they say 5% but the reality is once you hit 100% that's equal to 2.3%).

Thanks. I forget this from lower tiers and I'm going to have to factor this in more as I get more higher tier vehicles.

My choice was between VS and vents (I have the rammer, a no brainer to my mind), given I thought the spall liner and heavy duty kits would help me live longer (though not necessarily prosper).

The VS- as I understand it- doesn't help you aim faster per se, you just start the aiming cycle with a 20% head start in terms of aiming more accurately from the get go. It will still take you as long to get to optimal dispersion (0.43 on KV-5). Until you reach that point though (in time- 2.9s) your shot will be more accurate with VS than without it.

The math for this seems more geometric than arithmetic, but I roughly calculated all the c2.3% benefits for vents outweighed the VS +s on the grounds I was often up close where accuracy wasn't as useful. Plus I have snap shot on gunner.

I think if someone can persuade me the VS is better than vents, I'd be more likely to ditch the vents than the spall liner which I have found real handy.

To an extent I try to think 'real world' in WoT- vents/BiA- breathe better/get along better=all around better performance. I know I'm crazy but I don't get 6th Sense on these grounds too as that's maybe my job. I've been going for specific immediate skills (snap shot, repairs) not perks with a view to getting BiA as soon as 2nd is @ 100%+ where I can switch reset to BiA as 1st and then start on the other skill again.

Aenaes

I think an Enhanced Gun Laying Drive would suit KV-5 better than Vertical Stabilizer. Isn't the turret slow anyways? Vertical Stabilizer is more for fast tanks that circle enemies, or shooting while driving by an enemy.

Also, Sixth Sense is a must for survival.

nesf

Aenaes wrote: »

I think an Enhanced Gun Laying Drive would suit KV-5 better than Vertical Stabilizer. Isn't the turret slow anyways? Vertical Stabilizer is more for fast tanks that circle enemies, or shooting while driving by an enemy.

So, break down what causes bloom of the reticle and what each module does. There are three main reasons for reticle bloom: turret movement, tank movement or turning and the gun firing. The last one is only relevant with extremely fast firing guns like the T-34's 57mm gun that reloads faster than the bloom resets with no tank movement.

So we're left with two, now neither a tank's maximum speed nor tank's maximum turret movement speed dictate bloom, two hidden stats do this. You have slow turning tanks with terrible bloom like the KV-2 for example. The question comes down to what does a v-stab do and what does a GLD do for you. The V-stab always reduces the bloom from these two events by 20%. The GLD reduces the time it takes to reset the bloom from full to zero by 10%. The first is always better than the second in tanks that don't reload faster than the firing bloom resets. This is doubly true due to the normal distribution of shots within the aiming circle, i.e. the shots are far more likely to land within a second circle with half the diameter of the one that you see than outside of this second smaller circle.

The last thing that's worth talking about here is the effect of vents. Vents will decrease the size of the aiming circle at all times by 2.3% or thereabouts. Not a huge gain but it's something. Note premium food also has this effect and again this 2.3% gain is bigger than it looks because of how shots are distributed.



TL;DR: Use V-Stabs. If gun handling is poor use V-Stab + GLD (drop vents normally) like for example with the T34 American Premium Heavy.



CHorn: Either Rammer/V-Stab/Vents or Rammer/V-Stab/GLD are decent loadouts for this tank, depending on preference. The spall liner: well, what's killing you most of the time, arty or other tanks? Tanks are a threat on all maps and in all places in all maps, arty are only a serious risk to you if you're on a handful of maps that force you to be exposed or are being silly and staying exposed when you shouldn't be. :P

copeyhagen

Thinking of buying the su122-44 or the su100y this weekend, ones tier 6 ones tier 7 i know.

anyone own either? dont want another tier 8 heavy premium

Nody

copeyhagen wrote: »

Thinking of buying the su122-44 or the su100y this weekend, ones tier 6 ones tier 7 i know.

anyone own either? dont want another tier 8 heavy premium

Got the 122-44; biggest troll premium tank in the game imo (it beats the E25 only because of damage potential). That gun is soooo OP with such a silly quick reload on a chassi going really fast it simply makes going up against T8s a breeze. The only downside is that it's not a long range sniper but more close range but doing 400+ damage on a 7s reload on a tier 7 against tier 8 front armor? Oh hell yes! Think of it as a fully upgraded 704 that you get a tier earlier than what it would be in a normal tree (it's basically the ISU-152 D-25 mod. 1944 122mm gun on a very quick tier 7!).

Aenaes

Would you not wait for them to go on discount? It's only a matter of time before the tanks are cheaper. This weekend there's 30% discount on the following premium vehicles:
VII Panther/M10
VI Pz.Kpfw. IV Schmalturm
VI Dicker Max

and 15% discount on the following premium vehicles:
VIII Jagtiger 8,8cm Pak 43
VIII Löwe

Spear

"- it’s planned that when KV-1S is split into two tanks, players will get both tanks. Details will come later."

and

"- it’s planned that when FV4202 is made a premium tank, it will be given for free to players the way T34 was. "

From Evilly the producer in an interview

http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/08/14/interview-with-evilly-on-web-radio/

Seems at odds with past changes, were people didn't get a free lower tank, e.g. the Panzer IV splits.

ShadowHearth

Spear wrote: »

"- it’s planned that when KV-1S is split into two tanks, players will get both tanks. Details will come later."

and

"- it’s planned that when FV4202 is made a premium tank, it will be given for free to players the way T34 was. "

From Evilly the producer in an interview

http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/08/14/interview-with-evilly-on-web-radio/

Seems at odds with past changes, were people didn't get a free lower tank, e.g. the Panzer IV splits.

So they decided to give free tank after all. I guess that fella in russian interview was not full of ****.

Aenaes

Hmm, I'm at the Cromwell, wondering if I should go for it. SilentStalker on his blog reckons it will be about three months, does that sound about right to you Spear?

Spear

Aenaes wrote: »

Hmm, I'm at the Cromwell, wondering if I should go for it. SilentStalker on his blog reckons it will be about three months, does that sound about right to you Spear?

I'm out of the loop entirely on such decisions.

Aenaes

Yeah, I just thought you might be able to have a guess based on patch schedules.

CHorn

copeyhagen wrote: »

Thinking of buying the su122-44 or the su100y this weekend... anyone own either?

On SU122-44, what Nody says.

I own both, though SU122-44 fairly recent purchase, SU-100Y for a while. I like both, though I'd prefer the 122-44 if I was looking to live through WWII. The 100Y trains 2 gunners/2 loaders (crew 6) to the 122-44's crew of 4, so it was real handy early on to train up Soviet TD crews faster. It's also much more fragile so further back and if you can keep good company, but packs a nice wallop and when you hit something they know all about it.

If you were on NA server you could get either @ 30% off this weekend: //worldoftanks.com/en/news/pc-browser/22/tank-hunters-weekend/ or the JagdTiger 8.8 Pak 43 is @ 15% off on EU and that I find as nice as the SU122-44 and an even handier credit earner.

On EU, as Aenaes says, why not wait for the 30% off?

copeyhagen

the jt8.8 is actually top credit earner on vbaddict i think... might be a good option..

dicker max has ridiculous depression...

the m10 always interested me, but tbh i have no german med crew.. the thoughts of playing without 6th sense.... meh

decisions decisions...

nesf

The 122-44 is a superb premium TD so long as you aren't addicted to sniping. The Dicker Max has a great gun and view range but has so many flaws to go with it.

For pure fun and credits I'd go with the 122-44, it's a superb medium range/ambush TD. The 100Y is more of a "I need another KV-2, just bigger and without the turret" kind of TD. :P

copeyhagen

just had a look at the premium shop..

could get the jagdtiger 88 or
panther m10 and dicker max / su122-44

two tanks might be more fun than one 'stronk camp bush' tank!

and i do plan on going further with my german medium so crew training would be handy.

whats the super pershing like?

Aenaes

Super Pershing is slow, armour is decent but not great anymore. It's effective when against enemies who don't know the weakspots. The gun is kinda mediocre. 170 average penetration, it's the same gun stock T32 gets.
When you consider the tier VII IS guns have 175 average penetration and the Type 59 used to have 175 average penetration but it was changed to 181, then you can see the Super Pershing struggles to penetrate at times and premium ammo needs to be used sometimes.
It can still perfom pretty well though and earn nice amounts of credits.

Panther M10 doesn't seem to be worth the money for me. Isn't it just a Panther made to look like a Wolverine? With the L/70 gun so it has less penetration but I'm guessing it has limited matchmaking. Still, it seems like it would just be like playing a Panther. At least with the Pz. IV Schmalturm you're getting something a bit different to the ordinary Pz. IV.

A nice German medium is the Pz. S35 on tier III. It costs 1000 gold but has been on sale for half price a couple of times.

CHorn

nesf wrote: »

The 100Y is more of a "I need another KV-2, just bigger and without the turret" kind of TD. :P

LoL, yes, not to mention "and besides, who wants to live forever anyway?".

nesf wrote: »

CHorn: Either Rammer/V-Stab/Vents or Rammer/V-Stab/GLD are decent loadouts for this tank, depending on preference. The spall liner: well, what's killing you most of the time, arty or other tanks?

Thanks for this. I'm gonna keep more of a handle on who's responsible for my untimely demises in various vehicles.

Actually on equipment generally I found something really handy today off the back of forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/380442-tactical-tip-if-youre-going-to-buy-a-premium-tank/ (handy being on both EU and NA servers for this) @ vbaddict.net/tankstats/soviet-union/heavy/kv-5-208 - this is for the KV-5 specifically in example here, but just get to your tank and click on it, then equipment tab. There's a difference in general public and (unicum usage):

Large-Сaliber Tank Gun Rammer- 78.0% (82.1%)
Improved Ventilation Class 3- 47.8% (54.0%)
Vertical Stabilizer Mk 2- 36.7% (52.5%)
Enhanced Gun Laying Drive- 31.3% (27.9%)
Superheavy Spall Liner- 27.6% (25.3%)

If I'd known about this a long time ago, it would have saved me a lot of time finding useful nuggets of info after wading through loads of crap and uninformed nonsense/speculation- like the virtues of filling your WWII-era gas tank with CO2 so your vehicle breathes better than your crew for example.

Spear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=638dRyOvHlw

This gave me a good laugh, once the music starts it was obvious what was coming.

nesf

CHorn wrote: »

LoL, yes, not to mention "and besides, who wants to live forever anyway?".

Thanks for this. I'm gonna keep more of a handle on who's responsible for my untimely demises in various vehicles.

Actually on equipment generally I found something really handy today off the back of forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/380442-tactical-tip-if-youre-going-to-buy-a-premium-tank/ (handy being on both EU and NA servers for this) @ vbaddict.net/tankstats/soviet-union/heavy/kv-5-208 - this is for the KV-5 specifically in example here, but just get to your tank and click on it, then equipment tab. There's a difference in general public and (unicum usage):

Large-Сaliber Tank Gun Rammer- 78.0% (82.1%)
Improved Ventilation Class 3- 47.8% (54.0%)
Vertical Stabilizer Mk 2- 36.7% (52.5%)
Enhanced Gun Laying Drive- 31.3% (27.9%)
Superheavy Spall Liner- 27.6% (25.3%)

If I'd known about this a long time ago, it would have saved me a lot of time finding useful nuggets of info after wading through loads of crap and uninformed nonsense/speculation- like the virtues of filling your WWII-era gas tank with CO2 so your vehicle breathes better than your crew for example.

One thing to keep in mind is patches change things and also playstyle changes things. Some people do better with GLD over Rammer on some mediums for example and I'm talking out 65%+ unicums not some randomer that can't make the Rammer work. Also some equipment (e.g. rammers and vents) are overused on some tanks by a large percentage of the population, including some unicums.

ShadowHearth

Had horrible games in T34 all day, then this happened. I cant say I was even trying lol. My second Walters Medal.

Drweavil

Always nice to get a Radley-Walters, well done

CHorn

nesf wrote: »

One thing to keep in mind is patches change things and also playstyle changes things. Some people do better with GLD over Rammer on some mediums for example and I'm talking out 65%+ unicums not some randomer that can't make the Rammer work. Also some equipment (e.g. rammers and vents) are overused on some tanks by a large percentage of the population, including some unicums.

Main reason I revisited Spall Liner as an option for the KV-5, when it got seriously resorted (especially introduction of Superheavy) in 8.6: forum.worldoftanks.asia/index.php?/topic/18902-spall-liner-efficiency-revisited-in-upcoming-86-update/ - and this change may not be reflected in vbaddict stat for equipment.

I've rarely seen vents overused (I've played mostly lower tiers though), but rammers yes. Some folks seem to put em on anything that shoots, even 26 rpm machines, shaving off around 0.2s on reload. I don't think I've ever used GLD over Rammer- is there an example? I did take a rammer of my M7 when I realized with speed and view range it made a far better scout/harassment vehicle with the high RoF (26 rpm) 6 Pounder Mark III (top pen gun @ 105mm though low dpm) using Vents/Camonet/Binos (or coated optics) than anything else.

Best article I came across on when to use GLD was forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/261492-a-guide-for-when-to-choose-gun-rammer-or-gld/ which I thought very handy.

Aenaes

Cromwell is a beast, I'll be sorry when I finish it today or tomorrow.

nesf

CHorn wrote: »

Main reason I revisited Spall Liner as an option for the KV-5, when it got seriously resorted (especially introduction of Superheavy) in 8.6: forum.worldoftanks.asia/index.php?/topic/18902-spall-liner-efficiency-revisited-in-upcoming-86-update/ - and this change may not be reflected in vbaddict stat for equipment.

I've rarely seen vents overused (I've played mostly lower tiers though), but rammers yes. Some folks seem to put em on anything that shoots, even 26 rpm machines, shaving off around 0.2s on reload. I don't think I've ever used GLD over Rammer- is there an example? I did take a rammer of my M7 when I realized with speed and view range it made a far better scout/harassment vehicle with the high RoF (26 rpm) 6 Pounder Mark III (top pen gun @ 105mm though low dpm) using Vents/Camonet/Binos (or coated optics) than anything else.

Best article I came across on when to use GLD was forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/261492-a-guide-for-when-to-choose-gun-rammer-or-gld/ which I thought very handy.

There's an argument for GLD over rammer on the T-44. It's not clear-cut but few consider it. The tank is not a tank you expect to be able to stand and shoot in and you almost never want to be trading shots in it when you're not top tier. It also lacks the great gun handling of the better flankers around it in tier. You do need to place shots and disappear behind cover quickly though, often with only half aiming and similar and the GLD + V-Stab + Optics set-up does this better than Rammer + V-Stab + Optics. It's a matter of style/use/what you can make the machine do. Extra snapshot accuracy/aimtime on the gun versus a bump in DPM that you may or may not be able to leverage in games. Either choice with the T-44 will screw you over a bit in games in the direction you don't go in.

GLDs always give you faster aimtime, which you will always benefit from but may not need. Rammers always give a faster reload which you may never benefit from during a game and which you may not need. Whether the rammer should be there often comes down to whether you can expect to make use of the faster shot, so almost all brawling tanks favour rammers because they expect to trade shots and they usually don't use optics since they don't have to spot their own prey that much but flankers may or may not depending on how good gun handling in the tank is due to the importance of vision for them and optics not being optional for serious set-ups. Tank Destroyers always take them when they can simply because lacking V-Stabs and often Vents they don't have the same competition between equipment pieces and tend to be more "cookie cutter."

In general you'll take rammer before GLD if you already have a V-Stab on the tank but it's not always an automatic choice.

ShadowHearth

I gave up today on getting my dailies done. 5k damage and 5 kills in Borsik and still a Loss...

Could not get a single win today at all. I cant even blame myself this time around as I just sow what my team mates do and it just puts me in to ./facepalm state.

copeyhagen

so friday i bought two premiums.

m10 panther. - decent enough, gets premium MM, pen on gun isnt great, but i have had no problems so far, carrying 5 apcr shells for tier 8 games, lot of times im top tier, gets good credits, so cheap to repair and resuply, had a couple of 70-80k profit games. damage is only about 140 average, but so quick to reload that the damage racks up, which makes the credits rack up..

i like it.

su-100y - so much lols, really like it, makes slightly better credits than the m10 thanks to the massive alpha damage, its called boxtank for a reason, its huge! i have my 704 crew for this, so theyre on 4th skill, whereas my m10 crew are about 90% through first skill..

both were cheap, both are fun. still thinking of buying the su122-44 this weekend

nesf

Boxtank must feed?