No makeup selfie.

Legs.Eleven

mikom wrote: »

True, Legs.Eleven
So it would be more valid to say... Good to see the Irish tradition of self loathing is alive in some posters.

Tbh, I don't care either way about this selfie thing (not too many of my Facebook friends got involved) but I'm not seeing how criticising it equates to self-loathing?

mikom

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Tbh, I don't care either way about this selfie thing (not too many of my Facebook friends got involved) but I'm not seeing how criticising it equates to self-loathing?

I was talking more about those who see criticism of the nomakeup selfie as part of the Irish tradition of bitching negativity and moaning......... when as you correctly pointed out the criticism has been international.

bodice ripper

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

So they're showing off and ashamed of themselves. Which is it?

They aren't mutually exclusive.


Also, I didn't say anyone is showing off. I think everyone on Facebook is showing off, myself included. I am fine with it.

I just find the relationship that a huge majority of the women in my life have with make up alien and bizarre. I am very open to the idea that the problem is me, but I find it hard to come up with any way to see adults unwilling to pop to the shops without ensuring their face is acceptable as a good thing.

It's weird. All of my female friends are like this, and I hardly think less of them as people. I wouldn't mind being able to see them as they actually are the odd time though.

Czarcasm

Rhotheta wrote: »

Do you actually think that people who think it's brave to post a picture without make up have a healthy and unwarped outlook on life? They need to cop on and take a look at people who have real problems, not just a bad complexion.

It's been pointed out time and again on this thread alone that for some people, their bad complexion IS a real problem, to them, it's not a game of "my problems are bigger than your problems", hell even in this thread alone I've seen enough cancer comparisons and 'one type of cancer is worse than the other' and 'this cancer gets more funding than that cancer'. They're all fcuking horrendous, and bad skin is horrendous, and being born with no arms nor legs is horrendous, but honestly, this is why charity is supposed to be charity, not a fcuking competition, because nobody can care about everybody, they can only care about the people that mean something to them and the issues that are real to them, so if someone feels revealing their skin without make up is an idea that's as abhorrent to them as missing their arms, sure, it's a different perspective, but it doesn't mean it's not a valid one.

I wouldn't call any person brave for revealing their face without make up, just like I wouldn't call anyone brave for struggling to fight cancer. You just have to get on with it, because there's nobody giving out medals for this stuff, they're not achievements in the true sense of the word.

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

So they're showing off and ashamed of themselves. Which is it?

A little bit from column A, a little bit from column B

Czarcasm

bodice ripper wrote: »

They aren't mutually exclusive.


Also, I didn't say anyone is showing off. I think everyone on Facebook is showing off, myself included. I am fine with it.

I just find the relationship that a huge majority of the women in my life have with make up alien and bizarre. I am very open to the idea that the problem is me, but I find it hard to come up with any way to see adults unwilling to pop to the shops without ensuring their face is acceptable as a good thing.

It's weird. All of my female friends are like this, and I hardly think less of them as people. I wouldn't mind being able to see them as they actually are the odd time though.

Ahh come on bodice ripper, you're a tattoo artist for a living, and you can't understand people wanting to apply chemicals to their skin whether it be to beautify themselves, express themselves, or disguise themselves in some way?

Come on... really?

bodice ripper

Czarcasm wrote: »

Ahh come on bodice ripper, you're a tattoo artist for a living, and you can't understand people wanting to apply chemicals to their skin whether it be to beautify themselves, express themselves, or disguise themselves in some way?

Come on... really?

I am very, very against facial tattoos. Always have been.

Nidgeweasel

Thank god for make up.

bodice ripper

Czarcasm wrote: »

Ahh come on bodice ripper, you're a tattoo artist for a living, and you can't understand people wanting to apply chemicals to their skin whether it be to beautify themselves, express themselves, or disguise themselves in some way?

Come on... really?

And I amn't against make up. I wear it the odd time if I am on a night out, it's peacocking. Grand. I don't need sort my face out to get milk in the morning.

Like I said, I am aware the problem could be me. But I can't get my head around it, never have been able to.

Czarcasm

bodice ripper wrote: »

And I amn't against make up. I wear it the odd time if I am on a night out, it's peacocking. Grand. I don't need sort my face out to get milk in the morning.

Like I said, I am aware the problem could be me. But I can't get my head around it, never have been able to.

Well that's why it surprised me when you said that when as a tattoo artist you would've done tattoos for people who would've had diverse reasons from self-expression to exhibitionism to just purely for the fun of it. Their underlying reasons could indeed be vanity or insecurity, you've mentioned yourself you have massive self image issues all your life, is it really that hard to imagine that those people who choose to use make up might use it as a way to disguise their self image issues? And for them to take off that mask IS a big deal for them?

Personally I'd love it if my wife wore make up and looked fantastic 24/7, because when you look fantastic you feel fantastic, she can't be arsed with the time it takes to do all that like she would if she were going on a night out, but then she can't expect the same reaction when she doesn't make the same effort.

That's why all these photos of how some women can look so different without makeup can look so different, and why they might feel insecure in putting photos like that up on Facebook where they usually spend the majority of the time putting up all the positive things in their lives. That's why the whole nominations thing strikes me as a way for some people to 'call out' people on their friends list in front of their friends. It's childish "You do it, no you do it" stuff, and quite frankly phenomena like these make me so relieved I have nothing interesting enough to broadcast on social media to say about myself that I think the world needs to hear, because sooner or later, someone's going to find a way to score points off your insecurities.

Last year it was Kony, Savita, this year it's been Uganda, Syria, Russia, Ukraine, Cancer, and we're only into March!

So much for charity begins at home. You wouldn't even look twice at a homeless man if you were on your own, but walking down the street with your friends you'll put in £1 in his cup, your friend will have to better you and put in £5, etc, same thing with this Facebook effort.

bodice ripper

Czarcasm wrote: »

Well that's why it surprised me when you said that when as a tattoo artist you would've done tattoos for people who would've had diverse reasons from self-expression to exhibitionism to just purely for the fun of it. Their underlying reasons could indeed be vanity or insecurity, you've mentioned yourself you have massive self image issues all your life, is it really that hard to imagine that those people who choose to use make up might use it as a way to disguise their self image issues? And for them to take off that mask IS a big deal for them?

.

Oh, I think being as heavily tattooed as I am is demonstrably a mental thing to do. I don't think I could ethically recommend getting tattooed to anyone who hasn't considered it. I frequently joke that I facilitate poor decision making for a living.

But your face is how you convey who you are to other people. Its very complex and still not entirely understood. Constantly trying to map another face over it is just a weird idea for me. Which is also why I will not do facial tattoos.

Obliq

bodice ripper wrote: »

I just find the relationship that a huge majority of the women in my life have with make up alien and bizarre. I am very open to the idea that the problem is me, but I find it hard to come up with any way to see adults unwilling to pop to the shops without ensuring their face is acceptable as a good thing.

Czarcasm wrote: »

Personally I'd love it if my wife wore make up and looked fantastic 24/7, because when you look fantastic you feel fantastic, she can't be arsed with the time it takes to do all that like she would if she were going on a night out, but then she can't expect the same reaction when she doesn't make the same effort.

TBH Czarcasm, that's nearly exactly why I agree with bodice ripper in her comment I've included here. To my mind, the relationship that the huge majority of women have with make - up is bound up in how they think they look to others, yes? If your wife (and I'm not singling her out - just referring to your comment really) felt fantastic without make up, wouldn't you prefer her like that 24/7? Because you come across as wanting your wife to just feel fantastic in herself, but what you've actually said is "I'd love it if my wife wore make up and looked fantastic 24/7"

I personally don't subscribe to women looking their best in make up. I find it too homogeneous, as if we're all born with the same skin tone (a la Mac foundations) or the same darkened eye line. I don't like it, but then, I'm not attracted to women or sameness. Do you find that you're more attracted to women in make up, or without? Or do you feel you've been given a choice, seeing as all or most women you've been shown in media, and out and about, have make up on? Just wondering like

Edit: Sorry now....was butting in, and I'm off to bed anyway! Your discussion was interesting - don't let me stop ya ;-)

ted1

Czarcasm wrote: »

So much for charity begins at home. You wouldn't even look twice at a homeless man if you were on your own, but walking down the street with your friends you'll put in £1 in his cup, your friend will have to better you and put in £5, etc, same thing with this Facebook effort.

The net result is a good cause wins.

Czarcasm

Obliq wrote: »

TBH Czarcasm, that's nearly exactly why I agree with bodice ripper in her comment I've included here. To my mind, the relationship that the huge majority of women have with make - up is bound up in how they think they look to others, yes? If your wife (and I'm not singling her out - just referring to your comment really) felt fantastic without make up, wouldn't you prefer her like that 24/7? Because you come across as wanting your wife to just feel fantastic in herself, but what you've actually said is "I'd love it if my wife wore make up and looked fantastic 24/7"

Well, each of us as individuals really, when we don't feel we look our best, we're not going to feel our best. I mean, I don't care really that she doesn't wear make up all the time, but there's no denying the fact that she does look better with make up than without. She also has a cracking arse in a pair of jeans and heels than she does in tracksuit pants and runners, but hey, I signed up to marriage knowing at some point she's gonna have to lift her skirt to flash her boobs. I'm ok with that too, just not too soon! :pac:

I personally don't subscribe to women looking their best in make up. I find it too homogeneous, as if we're all born with the same skin tone (a la Mac foundations) or the same darkened eye line. I don't like it, but then, I'm not attracted to women. Do you find that you're more attracted to women in make up, or without? Or do you feel you've been given a choice, seeing as all or most women you've been shown in media, and out and about, have make up on? Just wondering like

I gotta be honest I'm definitely more attracted to women who know how to apply make-up properly, it's such a judgement call though because I can put ten different faces of make up on the same girl and have her look ten different ways (aye, I can do make-up too) and still have her look attractive, so it just depends on the individual girl, look at what happened when Mila Kunis was caught on a bad day sans make-up, Jesus Christ almighty!

Some girls can carry off the natural look with ease though, absolutely, and then some girls just need a little advice about the right foundations, creams, eye make-up that's the difference between a smoky eye and a panda eye, and fake tan, ohh boy, I love fake tan when applied properly, and by properly I mean it looks natural, but the dark hands/light face combo or vice versa, jaysus, drives me spare! :pac:

LETHAL LADY

Jaysus lads, what the hell is wrong with wearing a bit of slap, sure hasn't makeup been on the go for thousands of years now. I wear makeup everyday and it's part of my daily routine, like having a shower or shaving your legs for example. I don't use a trowel to apply it and I don't spend a fortune on products either. It takes me roughly about five minutes to apply so why not.

bodice ripper

It takes me roughly about five minutes to apply so why not.

But why?

I don't understand, I've never understood. It's your face, there's nothing wrong with it. It's a very complex machine for communicating to other humans, what was wrong with what/who it was communicating without make up? Not young enough? Not beige enough? Not dark enough? Had acne at some point?

I like make up, it can be really hot, I even like it on men. But it's a sexually display, not a correction of flaws to be adopted forever.


Sorry, not having a go at you particularly. I honestly just don't understand.

Penny Tration

bodice ripper wrote: »

But why?

I don't understand, I've never understood. It's your face, there's nothing wrong with it. It's a very complex machine for communicating to other humans, what was wrong with what/who it was communicating without make up? Not young enough? Not beige enough? Not dark enough? Had acne at some point?

I like make up, it can be really hot, I even like it on men. But it's a sexually display, not a correction of flaws to be adopted forever.


Sorry, not having a go at you particularly. I honestly just don't understand.

I think different people have different reasons when it comes down to it.

My sister wears what's considered fashionable among her friends (ie, orange skin). My male friend wears it for attention (he admits to this, I'm not dissing him). My other friend wears it because she's so self conscious, she thinks she needs to spend 3 hours per day applying it (no exaggeration).

My other sisters and I wear it for the same reasons - to draw attention to parts of our faces that we like. I have nice eyes, so I wear make up that accentuates them. My little sister has lovely lips, so always has gloss or lipstick on.

Another reason I wear it - work. If I had a choice, I'd only wear make up about twice per week. I'm kind of expected to wear it in work, though. I don't always, but the days I do would bring it up to 4 times per week.

LETHAL LADY

bodice ripper wrote: »

But why?

I don't understand, I've never understood. It's your face, there's nothing wrong with it. It's a very complex machine for communicating to other humans, what was wrong with what/who it was communicating without make up? Not young enough? Not beige enough? Not dark enough? Had acne at some point?

I like make up, it can be really hot, I even like it on men. But it's a sexually display, not a correction of flaws to be adopted forever.


Sorry, not having a go at you particularly. I honestly just don't understand.

Janey mack Bodice Ripper.....My face is no machine If me wearing a bit of makeup is construed as this , the fault is with the observer not me.

wil

Not an expert and not a big fan of it and that's fine by her, but I get the impression, a lot of women wear make up for themselves or other women, and not at all as a sexual display.
And for some it is a way of covering perceived imperfections.
And in some jobs it is like a suit.

Other cultures and countries don't all have the same prevalence of make up or at least not similar makeup eg in many Asian countries the shelves are lined with various skin bleaching and whitening treatments, Arabic women stay well out of the sun for fear of tanning, yet Brazilian, Filipino and other Hispanic countries seem to love tanning.
Perhaps the pale, hard to tan typical Irish skin is a natural canvas for colour, but many other peoples envy that paleness.

ballsymchugh

wil wrote: »

Other cultures and countries don't all have the same prevalence of make up or at least not similar makeup eg in many Asian countries the shelves are lined with various skin bleaching and whitening treatments, Arabic women stay well out of the sun for fear of tanning, yet Brazilian, Filipino and other Hispanic countries seem to love tanning.
Perhaps the pale, hard to tan typical Irish skin is a natural canvas for colour, but many other peoples envy that paleness.

isn't that a class thing? in some countries where people would be tanned, it was because they worked outdoors, so would typically be lower class.
the whiteners that you see on shelves in asia are to give the impression that you're of a class that doesn't work outside (if at all)

Piliger

bodice ripper wrote: »

But why?

I don't understand, I've never understood. It's your face, there's nothing wrong with it. It's a very complex machine for communicating to other humans, what was wrong with what/who it was communicating without make up? Not young enough? Not beige enough? Not dark enough? Had acne at some point?

I like make up, it can be really hot, I even like it on men. But it's a sexually display, not a correction of flaws to be adopted forever.


Sorry, not having a go at you particularly. I honestly just don't understand.

It is when it is drilled in to you from childhood. Few people are immune to that kind of cultural brainwashing.

Personally I like to know whom I am dating, not a face painted on a face.
But some men learn from some early experience to associate sexuality with makeup and they therefore see it as glamorous and attractive.

wil

ballsymchugh wrote: »

isn't that a class thing? in some countries where people would be tanned, it was because they worked outdoors, so would typically be lower class.
the whiteners that you see on shelves in asia are to give the impression that you're of a class that doesn't work outside (if at all)

Doubt that now, it's more of a fashion decision, to look more "western"
Also the most common plastic surgery operation in China is the eyelid fold.

Consider many sweatshop workers hardly ever see the sun and that sort of work is more prevalent now.
Over here that pale skin trend was last century, then in recent decades a tan was a sign of being rich enough to go on holiday.
Now (well maybe not for the last few years) foreign exotic travel is more the norm.
Thing is, by and large, typical Irish is the whitest skin in the world, so yeah, canvas.

And they can tattoo makeup now so, ammm, I'd say I've used up everything I know:),

Kylo Ren

I put one up there. It's for a good cause and we need to get he message out there.

Kony cannot continue. #Kony2012

Jester252

A nice new spin off has just appeared on my Facebook. I hope #cockinasock doesn't take off.

beks101

bodice ripper wrote: »

But it's a sexually display, not a correction of flaws to be adopted forever.

Piliger wrote: »

Personally I like to know whom I am dating, not a face painted on a face.

I think makeup's getting a pretty bad press here now in fairness.

The above calls to mind some sort of circus freak image a la

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vdSz3AaCl_Y/URF99t-19GI/AAAAAAAABqY/fVJZY-NC19s/s1600/7.jpg

When in reality most women myself included would aspire to a more natural look, something like

http://jeanneleekuhn.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/a-natural-makeup-look.jpg

Hardly a "face painted on a face" - and hardly a case of waking up beside some unrecognisable species the next morning that looks completely different to what you saw the night before.

Personally it has to do with many things, but a desire to morph my face into something else entirely or to put on a 'sexual display' certainly doesn't appear on the list.

It's professionalism in the office, where I'll have face-to-face interaction with lots of important people and would like to look as groomed and neat and put-together as possible.

It's self-confidence at social events, dinners, nights out etc. Knowing that I look my best - and that includes an array of things from styling my hair, dressing well, getting enough sleep, generally keeping in shape, and applying makeup so I can enjoy myself knowing that I've presented the best physical version of myself, and like anyone I get a confidence boost from that and will probably be more comfortable and outgoing as a result of it.

It's general entertainment and enjoyment of the physical process of applying it. I happen to quite like my face. And I love finding out what makes my eyes pop, what highlights my cheekbones, what works well with my warm skin tone, what brings out my best features. It's a way of celebrating the raw materials, as opposed to trying to disguise them.

It does help as a corrective thing too for whatever facial thing I may have going on, blotchy skin or dark circles or a spot outbreak or whatever. That's not something that I'd use it for primarily though - it's just something that helps with the above scenarios I've described.

I'm perfectly happy doing the grocery shopping or spending the day in the park or taking a bus or a train or a plane or hanging out with friends or my boyfriend or whatever without a lick of the stuff on my face. As it is I haven't worn a trace of it since Thursday and being bare-faced is as comfortable and normal to me as spending a while applying makeup. Both are wonderful. Both are the same face and I doubt anyone would have too much trouble picking my makeup-less mug out of a lineup.

Which is kind of why this #nomakeup #selfie #OMG thing grates me. I don't recoil in horror at the thought of the general public seeing me without my war paint. It happens every other day. I've seen most if not all of the women in my life - mum, sisters, relatives, friends, colleagues, clients, flatmates, acquaintances etc - in the same state and it wouldn't register in my brain that they're not wearing makeup - it's just me conversing with another woman as far as I'm concerned.

So this whole "terrifying" "brave" "you've no idea how hard this is" thing just baffles me to be quite honest. And propogates this idea that women are generally vain, self-obsessed lunatics who refuse to leave the house without being painted and preened to within an inch of their fickle little lives, in order to present some sort of farce to the world, which is simply untrue.

kingshankly

This bugs me a lot of girls putting up selfies without having donated just looking for the usual comments "omg honey you don't need make up"
Make up companies must be loving it as it highlights the need for make up

Legs.Eleven

I think people are getting a bit OTT on how important make up is to most women. The vast majority of women I know can leave the house without it and do often.

iDave

Didn't realise how conditioned I am to see girls in make up. Genuinely don't recognise some of them. A lot of natural beauty shining through

Tasden

I think girls would feel a lot more confident without makeup if they didn't hear "are you ok?/you look sick" whenever they go out wearing none
Its a natural reaction if someone looks paler than usual or their eyes look less defined and therefore tired, or bags not covered by concealer, it doesn't necessarily mean they look bad without it, they just look different and the first thought is that something might be wrong with them. Every one of my makeup wearing friends has had this happen at one point or another and when it does it just confirms to them that they do need to wear it, whereas its more just a case of the person not being used to their natural face.

Turtyturd

Jester252 wrote: »

A nice new spin off has just appeared on my Facebook. I hope #cockinasock doesn't take off.

Also noticed someone last night putting up a 'selfie' of their dog....which was clearly not taken by the dog, and asking people to do the same and donate 4 euro to the ISPCA.

Stupid f*ck.

Panda_Turtle

Turtyturd wrote: »

Also noticed someone last night putting up a 'selfie' of their dog....which was clearly not taken by the dog, and asking people to do the same and donate 4 euro to the ISPCA.

Stupid f*ck.

Clearly not taken by the dog? Captain f*ckin obvious.

Whats the problem with raising money for a good cause.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057174165