Minister Shatter and Commissioner Callinan should both resign in disgrace

bajer101

It would seem to be what has happened and why Shatter and Callinan are still in situ today. I really thought that Shatter would step down today and that the fact that Kenny also knew about the dossier of cases wouldn't be highlighted as people would be happy enough with Shatter and Callinan stepping down. I think this still has legs. The husband of Sylvia Roche-Kelly has a case in the high court on Monday suing the State over her death. That is the sort of emotive issue that could tip it all over the edge.

fr3d12

bajer101 wrote: »

It would seem to be what has happened and why Shatter and Callinan are still in situ today. I really thought that Shatter would step down today and that the fact that Kenny also knew about the dossier of cases wouldn't be highlighted as people would be happy enough with Shatter and Callinan stepping down. I think this still has legs. The husband of Sylvia Roche-Kelly has a case in the high court on Monday suing the State over her death. That is the sort of emotive issue that could tip it all over the edge.

There will probably be a some sort of ban on the reporting of the case.
They will say it's to do with how the Gardaí operate etc and such info being sensitive to the security of the state, also I would fear the state would want to settle quickly and possibly want the Roche-Kelly's to sign a confidentiality agreements similar to what the HSE does, i.e. paying out but not admitting liability.
I know they are not doing it for the money but I'm sure they don't want a painful drawn out case either.

bajer101

fr3d12 wrote: »

There will probably be a some sort of ban on the reporting of the case.
They will say it's to do with how the Gardaí operate etc and such info being sensitive to the security of the state, also I would fear the state would want to settle quickly and possibly want the Roche-Kelly's to sign a confidentiality agreements similar to what the HSE does, i.e. paying out but not admitting liability.
I know they are not doing it for the money but I'm sure they don't want a painful drawn out case either.

Maybe so, but even the fact that it is listed for hearing on Monday will be enough to keep the impetus going. We also have the Sunday Times this Sunday to look forward to. There could be something reported there that could add further pressure. I suspect that they are still holding back information. They probably have the full Verrimus report, so there might be further revelations there.

I really am surprised that Shatter didn't fall on his sword today. It's only eight weeks to the local elections and if this is all still in the public's consciousness then, FG/Lab are totally screwed. It seems that these guys value personal political survival above everything else.

fr3d12

bajer101 wrote: »

Maybe so, but even the fact that it is listed for hearing on Monday will be enough to keep the impetus going. We also have the Sunday Times this Sunday to look forward to. There could be something reported there that could add further pressure. I suspect that they are still holding back information. They probably have the full Verrimus report, so there might be further revelations there.

I really am surprised that Shatter didn't fall on his sword today. It's only eight weeks to the local elections and if this is all still in the public's consciousness then, FG/Lab are totally screwed. It seems that these guys value personal political survival above everything else.

It's so sad for the family that Callinan and Shatter haven't done the honourable thing, I know if my incompetence was directly or indirectly responsible for someone's death I wouldn't be trying to pass the buck.

The Verrimus report would make for very interesting reading and you're right about the weekend edition of the papers.
I believe now with so much out in the open that some other members of AGS with a conscience might come forward even anonymously, one can hope anyway.

charlie14

fr3d12 wrote: »

It's so sad for the family that Callinan and Shatter haven't done the honourable thing, I know if my incompetence was directly or indirectly responsible for someone's death I wouldn't be trying to pass the buck.

The Verrimus report would make for very interesting reading and you're right about the weekend edition of the papers.
I believe now with so much out in the open that some other members of AGS with a conscience might come forward even anonymously, one can hope anyway.

With Shatter having sacked the confidential recipient for telling the last garda that came forward the truth (that if he made waves Shatter would come after him), what garda is going to go down that road?
Go to the media who are taking their coverage of these stories from garda briefings?
Never going to happen.
What AGS have learned from this, (and hopefully the rest of the country to), is do whatever you want lads, Shatter and Callinan will cover you, and when this government need a bit of dirt work to keep the plebs in place, we know we candepend on ye.

fr3d12

charlie14 wrote: »

With Shatter having sacked the confidential recipient for telling the last garda that came forward the truth (that if he made waves Shatter would come after him), what garda is going to go down that road?
Go to the media who are taking their coverage of these stories from garda briefings?
Never going to happen.
What AGS have learned from this, (and hopefully the rest of the country to), is do whatever you want lads, Shatter and Callinan will cover you, and when this government need a bit of dirt work to keep the plebs in place, we know we candepend on ye.

There is that too unfortunately but I hope I'm right.

The consequences of all this is that people will stop reporting crime, why would they when they fear they won't be taken seriously.

oscarBravo

Admin note: I've had to remove a couple of allegations of corruption against clearly-identified or named officials. Let's be clear about this - such allegations are defamatory. If you want to defend them in court, make them on your own website.

This isn't an invitation to discuss the topic on this thread. If you want to discuss it, PM me.

holyhead

This whole debacle has done the concept of whistleblowing in official Ireland grave damage. Who in their right mind is going to flag corruption incompetence or neglingence when this is the outcome. Enda Kenny needs to realise that this transcends sacing the neck of his political friends. It is a point of principle that the country can be governed in a dignified, decent and honest fashion and that a slip from this standard can be flagged investigated, and corrected.

Slick50

There is something surreal about this. These guys seem to have decided at this stage they are all f*cked politically, particularly so now, so they might as well just close ranks, and ride it out for the remainder of this term. It certainly looks like Shatter gave Enda a good talking to over the last twentyfour hours.

Next we'll be getting told, "sure you can pass judgment on them at the next election"

fr3d12

holyhead wrote: »

This whole debacle has done the concept of whistleblowing in official Ireland grave damage. Who in their right mind is going to flag corruption incompetence or neglingence when this is the outcome. Enda Kenny needs to realise that this transcends sacing the neck of his political friends. It is a point of principle that the country can be governed in a dignified, decent and honest fashion and that a slip from this standard can be flagged investigated, and corrected.

That's true although to begin with whistleblowing in Ireland was never encouraged

Busted Flat.

I do not understand why everybody is getting their knickers in a twist, anybody old enough, will recognize this is a mirror image of the 73 FG/LP coalition. Think about it, Cooney/Donegan CCOB, and the rest of the so called liberal TD's at the time.

fr3d12

Busted Flat. wrote: »

I do not understand why everybody is getting their knickers in a twist, anybody old enough, will recognize this is a mirror image of the 73 FG/LP coalition. Think about it, Cooney/Donegan CCOB, and the rest of the so called liberal TD's at the time.

I wasn't born in '73 so I obviously know nothing of what went on back then but just because it's a "mirror image" of something that happened previously it doesn't mean we shouldn't get our knickers in a twist, perhaps there wasn't enough of a fuss made back then and failure to act by a Govt. or indeed the public is what allows these things to keep happening.

Slick50

Busted Flat. wrote: »

I do not understand why everybody is getting their knickers in a twist, anybody old enough, will recognize this is a mirror image of the 73 FG/LP coalition. Think about it, Cooney/Donegan CCOB, and the rest of the so called liberal TD's at the time.

Nothing to see here so? move along?

K-9

I don't know if we can glean that much from a coalition 40 years ago. I suppose FG tends to position itself as the party of law and order, it wouldn't really be perceived as liberal in that regard. Indeed barring economics and finance, there isn't much liberal in FG policies since Garret went.

Slick50

A snippet from 'the labour party centenary story'

To this day the Party has never achieved two successive terms in power to pursue its agenda.

I don't see that changing for some time.

fr3d12

Slick50 wrote: »

A snippet from 'the labour party centenary story' I don't see that changing for some time.

Me neither so what's next?
The Shinners and FF or FF and FG?

bajer101

fr3d12 wrote: »

It's so sad for the family that Callinan and Shatter haven't done the honourable thing, I know if my incompetence was directly or indirectly responsible for someone's death I wouldn't be trying to pass the buck.

The Verrimus report would make for very interesting reading and you're right about the weekend edition of the papers.
I believe now with so much out in the open that some other members of AGS with a conscience might come forward even anonymously, one can hope anyway.

I have heard some mention that there may be a bit of growing support for the two whistle blowers and that maybe some other members may come forward. I wouldn't be too hopeful though as I have spent most of this evening responding to a thread on After Hours which seemed to be to be an obvious attempt to discredit the two whistle blowers.

fr3d12 wrote: »

Me neither so what's next?
The Shinners and FF or FF and FG?

If in doubt look to the bookies. FG/FF coalition is the strong favourite ar 5/4

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/irish-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=591647

charlie14

K-9 wrote: »

I don't know if we can glean that much from a coalition 40 years ago. I suppose FG tends to position itself as the party of law and order, it wouldn't really be perceived as liberal in that regard. Indeed barring economics and finance, there isn't much liberal in FG policies since Garret went.

A lot of the grounds for FG positioning itself as the party of law and order has erroded from beneath them the last few weeks in the minds of anyone with a conscience I`d hope.

bajer101

I'm skimming over a lot of posts here and this comment may well be out of context, but for what it's worth - I come from a Fianna Fail family who slowly started moving Richard Bruton up the their ballot papers over the years until he was their number one vote. I couldn't understand how he lost the vote against Enda.

K-9

bajer101 wrote: »

If in doubt look to the bookies. FG/FF coalition is the strong favourite ar 5/4

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/irish-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=591647

Having the 2 parties of power in this state together in a coalition seems a nightmare to me.

Much as the PD's positioned themselves as FF watchdogs, Labour are there to keep an eye on FG. Now, we can all criticise Labour and rightly so, but the Irish electorate tends to veer away from FG when it might get an over all majority, that seemed likely near the last election.

charlie14 wrote: »

A lot of the grounds for FG positioning itself as the party of law and order has erroded from beneath them the last few weeks in the minds of anyone with a conscience I`d hope.

Well, it seems to have positioned itself as the party of law and order, no matter what! Whistleblowers be damned, the Minister of Justice will trust the Garda Commiissioner above all else, we are the party of law and order after all.

Banjo String

This story will be lingering on for the foreseeable future.

The husband of murdered mum-of-two Sylvia Roche Kelly is suing the Garda Commissioner, the Minister for Justice and the State for at least €4m.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/husband-of-murdered-woman-sues-garda-and-minister-for-4m-30032018.html

Slick50

K-9 wrote: »

Whistleblowers be damned, the Minister of Justice will trust the Garda Commiissioner above all else, we are the party of law and order after all.

Is this a declaration of your political allegiance, or are there quotation marks missing somewhere?

K-9

Slick50 wrote: »

Is this a declaration of your political allegiance, or are there quotation marks missing somewhere?

I was being sarcastic, and no, not a FG'er.

bobcoffee

with the way things have gone both FF and FG should be forced to be disbanded.
maybe then the passing down the corruption from generation to generation might be reduced.

charlie14

bobcoffee wrote: »

with the way things have gone both FF and FG should be forced to be disbanded.
maybe then the passing down the corruption from generation to generation might be reduced.

An idea, but that would still leave you with Labour, who are for the most part nowadays a re-branded Sinn Fein the Workers Party, and Sinn Fein. Neither of which in recent history are exacly paragons of virtue.

fr3d12

bajer101 wrote: »

I have heard some mention that there may be a bit of growing support for the two whistle blowers and that maybe some other members may come forward. I wouldn't be too hopeful though as I have spent most of this evening responding to a thread on After Hours which seemed to be to be an obvious attempt to discredit the two whistle blowers.



If in doubt look to the bookies. FG/FF coalition is the strong favourite ar 5/4

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/irish-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=591647

Must be some Gardaí on the after hours thread so.
No disrespect to boards but it's not really a powerful platform to credit or discredit anyone or is it?

An FF/FG coalition would end democracy in this country, Labour are about as useful as a chocolate teapot and Sinn Fein under the leadership of Adams
are not credible opposition because the past is always going to be used to discredit them.

fr3d12

bajer101 wrote: »

I have spent most of this evening responding to a thread on After Hours which seemed to be to be an obvious attempt to discredit the two whistle blowers.

Could you post a link to the thread in question please

michael999999

Michael martin would want to be careful in he's chasing down of callinan and the guards. He wouldn't want to be getting them looking too closely into hes own party!

brooke 2

golfball37 wrote: »

Indeed its makes a mockery now of their use of Jean McConville's name to answer any future questions from Adams or SF. They don't gve a toss about another innocent woman who was murdered judging by what Noonan aid on Newstalk earlier.

The gist of it was "What was all the fuss about, someone was charged with Mrs Roche-Kelly's death"

I really despair for the standard of person we elevate here.

Noonan's comment was shocking - but typical for him.

Wasn't he the Minister for Health when Brigid McCole was hounded to her grave?

Harry Angstrom

For the life of me, I could never see FF and FG forming a coalition together, despite the fact that there are very few fundamental differences between the parties. 5/4 with Paddy Power must be the worst value of all time.