Minister Shatter and Commissioner Callinan should both resign in disgrace

fr3d12

charlie14 wrote: »

Great. We`ve had the spooks, now we`re getting the shady judge, when is the scarlet lady due on stage!!! Jeez, you couldn`t make this stuff up.

I am cynical of anything the Govt. does but in this case I just know it's going to be a damage limitation exercise at the expense of the greater good.

bajer101

fr3d12 wrote: »

I don't doubt your synopsis but If Shatter goes surely Callinan has to as well and no one has focused on his equally damning role in all of this today.

Charlie Flanagan must be licking his lips, he would've been MoJ if Bruton has won the leadership a couple of years ago, he sided against Enda though.

That Callinan will go is a given. Charlie Flanagan is a strange bird in all of this. He is heavily involved in the Kieran Boylan affair as he was the FG'er who was shouting about it when in opposition. Can't see him getting the MoJ post though. On Morning Ireland this morning he kept referring to Oliver Connolly as the "Whistle Blower"! If Shatter goes, it will be between Vradker and Coveney.

charlie14 wrote: »

I don`t think him a fool, but I wouldn`t classify him as the sharpest knife in the drawer either. Whether he purposely misquoted the legislation to give thar impression.... who knows, but really all it achieved was to make him look an eejit and a mouthpiece for Shatter, which as far as I`m concerned is basically what he has been for a cabal who got him elected as leader of FG.
If, and it seems very probable he did, have that info years ago, then he`s as culpabal as Shatter and Callinan.
As for Labour, disgraceful performance from Joan Bruton in the Dail today.

I would have agreed with you about Kenny up until this week. Now I am not so sure that he isn't actually a very clever Machiavellian genius (or has fantastic advisors). I'm thinking now that we should have been warned when he beat off Richard Bruton, when that should have been a slam dunk for Bruton.

As for Labour! Amateur hour.

Slick50 wrote: »

I think that was setting the scene for Shatter to dismiss Connolly.

I think you are right, Shatter will probably go, but not taking questions could be giving Shatter time to get home and type his letter of resignation.

Watching Joan getting flustered, with Martin threatening her with "more papers" was a howl.

I'm not so sure about this. I think he may have had too much faith in his buddy Shatter, accepting his reports/responses, and repeating them verbatim.

Shatter's real allegiance has been with Callinan in this saga, whilst covering his own back. They were both all too aware of the enormity of this story breaking

I'm not so sure that his comments last week just about setting the stage for Connolly dismissal. I actually commented on my FB page at the time that I thought he was setting up Shatter for the chop. It wasn't really his place to comment on Connolly at such an early juncture. He saw what was coming and was laying the groundwork. Shatter will of course resign, as opposed to being sacked. He will do it with false dignity, spouting nonsense about stepping aside to let the review take place in a clear atmosphere. There will be a definite path left for him to return on the off chance that the review(s) clear him. And I wouldn't bet against him getting the nomination for the EU Commissioner role.

fr3d12

bajer101 wrote: »

That Callinan will go is a given. Charlie Flanagan is a strange bird in all of this. He is heavily involved in the Kieran Boylan affair as he was the FG'er who was shouting about it when in opposition. Can't see him getting the MoJ post though. On Morning Ireland this morning he kept referring to Oliver Connolly as the "Whistle Blower"! If Shatter goes, it will be between Vradker and Coveney.



I would have agreed with you about Kenny up until this week. Now I am not so sure that he isn't actually a very clever Machiavellian genius (or has fantastic advisors). I'm thinking now that we should have been warned when he beat off Richard Bruton, when that should have been a slam dunk for Bruton.

As for Labour! Amateur hour.



I'm not so sure that his comments last week just about setting the stage for Connolly dismissal. I actually commented on my FB page at the time that I thought he was setting up Shatter for the chop. It wasn't really his place to comment on Connolly at such an early juncture. He saw what was coming and was laying the groundwork. Shatter will of course resign, as opposed to being sacked. He will do it with false dignity, spouting nonsense about stepping aside to let the review take place in a clear atmosphere. There will be a definite path left for him to return on the off chance that the review(s) clear him. And I wouldn't bet against him getting the nomination for the EU Commissioner role.

I was being sarcastic about Flanagan but I do agree with you, he has too much baggage to be appointed MoJ or any other high ranking Ministry.
I don't think Coveney would get the job though, I could be wrong but he seems too naive. Varadkar on the other hand has lofty ambitions and is probably one of the smartest guys in Dail Eireann.
What about Noonan?

One of Enda's greatest strengths is the fact that he comes across as slow for lack of a better word when in fact the opposite is the case.
One only has to look at the way he guillotined so many important pieces of legislation to see how ruthless he is, he likes to get his own way and is not in the least bit sensitive to criticism.

I'm not altogether convinced yet Shatter will go but if he does it will exactly as you suggest.

My name is URL

charlie14 wrote: »

Great. We`ve had the spooks, now we`re getting the shady judge, when is the scarlet lady due on stage!!! Jeez, you couldn't make this stuff up.

We've been telling ourselves that for 800 years

You couldn't make it up but we'll always find a way to repeat past mistakes and pretend to ourselves that it's a new thing.

charlie14

I'm not so sure that his comments last week just about setting the stage for Connolly dismissal. I actually commented on my FB page at the time that I thought he was setting up Shatter for the chop. It wasn't really his place to comment on Connolly at such an early juncture. He saw what was coming and was laying the groundwork. Shatter will of course resign, as opposed to being sacked. He will do it with false dignity, spouting nonsense about stepping aside to let the review take place in a clear atmosphere. There will be a definite path left for him to return on the off chance that the review(s) clear him. And I wouldn't bet against him getting the nomination for the EU Commissioner role.[/QUOTE]

If, as should happen, Shatter resigns or is pushed, (the same applies to Callinan), surely there is no way this "review" can go ahead under the terms of reference written by Shatter.

fr3d12

I obviously don't know the law intimately but if abuses in AGS were covered up or ignored surely all those involved have committed a crime?

Peter Flynt

Kenny won't sack Shatter or Callinan as he's a weak leader.

Both would be long gone in any normal functioning democracy.

Captain Chaos

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Kenny won't sack Shatter or Callinan as he's a weak leader.

Both would be long gone in any normal functioning democracy.

And they wouldn't need to be forced out either.

Both should not be allowed to work in any position in government again.

fr3d12

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Both would be long gone in any normal functioning democracy.

That is one thing this country has never been.
How can it be when the two main parties are both sides of the same coin.
Labour in opposition appear to be for the people but in Govt. are only making up the numbers and falling into line under FG , After this term Labour will never be a serious force in Irish politics again if indeed they ever were.

_Kaiser_

Captain Chaos wrote: »

And they wouldn't need to be forced out either.

Both should not be allowed to work in any position in government again.

The more likely scenario is they'll be allowed retire early with a generous pay-off and retain their pensions. Prosecutions? Sure that's only for people who don't pay their TV license!

It's Ireland after all!

Agree with Peter Flynt above.. Kenny is an extremely weak "leader" who has been in politics FAR too long (1975) and who is clearly just a front-man for other elements in the party and EU. Worst Taoiseach we've had yet IMO.

golfball37

Garda McCabe wrote directly to Enda last April about his troubles in great detail and the Taoiseach did nothing about it. I'd be sceptical enough about giving Kenny the benefit of the doubt that he has only heard about these allegations in the last 48 hours.

The Labour party are embarrassing their supporters at this stage. Remember the promise of both Govt parties to clean things up here and vote for change. I'm just ashamed of what these people think is acceptable behaviour, in my name.

renegademaster

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

The more likely scenario is they'll be allowed retire early with a generous pay-off and retain their pensions. Prosecutions? Sure that's only for people who don't pay their TV license!

It's Ireland after all!

Agree with Peter Flynt above.. Kenny is an extremely weak "leader" who has been in politics FAR too long (1975) and who is clearly just a front-man for other elements in the party and EU. Worst Taoiseach we've had yet IMO.

and to think the last time the irish people showed they were awake was in november 2011 when 150,000 people attended the infamous protest to force fianna fail to call the general elections. 2 years in and we decided they had to go and with pure people power they were gone.

renegademaster

golfball37 wrote: »

Garda McCabe wrote directly to Enda last April about his troubles in great detail and the Taoiseach did nothing about it. I'd be sceptical enough about giving Kenny the benefit of the doubt that he has only heard about these allegations in the last 48 hours.

The Labour party are embarrassing their supporters at this stage. Remember the promise of both Govt parties to clean things up here and vote for change. I'm just ashamed of what these people think is acceptable behaviour, in my name.

and remember the acknowledgement from Pat Rabbitte "sure aren't they the lies ya tell just to get into government"

holyhead

1. Did I hear it correctly when I believe Alan Shatter said somoeone wouldn't co-operate with an enquiry when all along they hadn't been asked for their evidence.
2. I also understand that Shatter spoke is disparaging terms about two Garda who voiced concerns.

Can someone confirm this?

charlie14

holyhead wrote: »

1. Did I hear it correctly when I believe Alan Shatter said somoeone wouldn't co-operate with an enquiry when all along they hadn't been asked for their evidence.
2. I also understand that Shatter spoke is disparaging terms about two Garda who voiced concerns.

Can someone confirm this?

From my understanding on Sgt Mc Cabe, Shatter publicy criticised Sgt Mc Cabe for refusing to give evidence to the enquiry on penalty points. McCabe had written to him complaining that he wasn`t asked. As i said, my understanding. If I`m wrong, I`m open to correction.

charlie14

Just heard the news. Kenny has full confidence in Shatter.
I suppose predictable in that Kenny got the Mc Cabe dossier 10 months ago regardless of all his waffling yesterday about the seriousness of the matters contained in it, and did nothing.
I don`t believe the term, rotten to the core, was ever more apt.

fr3d12

charlie14 wrote: »

From my understanding on Sgt Mc Cabe, Shatter publicy criticised Sgt Mc Cabe for refusing to give evidence to the enquiry on penalty points. McCabe had written to him complaining that he wasn`t asked. As i said, my understanding. If I`m wrong, I`m open to correction.

Pat Rabbitte on the 1 o'clock news said Shatter may have made a mistake when he said the whistleblower wouldn't co-operate with the investigation.

Enda expressed full confidence in the MoJ and on the same programme defended Shatter and Callinan's close relationship and played down the need for a another inquiry, he also said Shatter is entitled to conduct a review on the internal communications of his Dept.

Labour and FG backbenchers needs to grow a backbone but they won't as usual and will just lay low for a while.
Gilmore sidestepped the question of whether he had confidence in Shatter and said we should focus on the substance of the issue, his credibility is at zero but I doubt he cares as he won't stand in the next election anyway.
He proved his lack of mettle during the debacle when his wife sold land to the Dept. of Education.
I was one of the people that voted for him based on his pre-election lies but never again will they or FG receive a vote from me.
Kenny is without doubt one of the most incompetent leaders this country has ever had and should be ashamed of himself.
These guys have no interest in fairness and equality and have less morals than a garden snail.

charlie14

fr3d12 wrote: »

Pat Rabbitte on the 1 o'clock news said Shatter may have made a mistake when he said the whistleblower wouldn't co-operate with the investigation.

Enda expressed full confidence in the MoJ and on the same programme defended Shatter and Callinan's close relationship and played down the need for a another inquiry, he also said Shatter is entitled to conduct a review on the internal communications of his Dept.

Labour and FG backbenchers needs to grow a backbone but they won't as usual and will just lay low for a while.
Gilmore sidestepped the question of whether he had confidence in Shatter and said we should focus on the substance of the issue, his credibility is at zero but I doubt he cares as he won't stand in the next election anyway.
He proved his lack of mettle during the debacle when his wife sold land to the Dept. of Education.
I was one of the people that voted for him based on his pre-election lies but never again will they or FG receive a vote from me.
Kenny is without doubt one of the most incompetent leaders this country has ever had and should be ashamed of himself.
These guys have no interest in fairness and equality and have less morals than a garden snail.

Aaah well,sure if they won`t hang Shatter separate,hopefully we`ll get the chance to hang them all together as soon as possible.

_Kaiser_

charlie14 wrote: »

Aaah well,sure if they won`t hang Shatter separate,hopefully we`ll get the chance to hang them all together as soon as possible.

Unlikely.. those who don't go to Europe (Kenny, Hogan) will follow their predecessors into "retirement" on full pensions rather than face the electorate.

No surprises either that the predictably weak Kenny is choosing to try and brush the whole thing under the carpet rather than act and dismiss his mate Shatter.

It's a farce.. what chance have we got as a country with this shower on one side, and FF's spendathon circus on the other.

This country is a failed state.

fr3d12

charlie14 wrote: »

Aaah well,sure if they won`t hang Shatter separate,hopefully we`ll get the chance to hang them all together as soon as possible.

Hopefully although the electorate will be thrown a bone before the locals, perhaps the promise of a tax cut or some other token gesture.

I'm beginning to think Shatter played hard ball with Enda and if he was going to be sacrificed maybe he simply reminded Enda of his damning role in all of this.

Seems like Callinan has had legal advice because there hasn't been a peep from him.

charlie14

fr3d12 wrote: »

Hopefully although the electorate will be thrown a bone before the locals, perhaps the promise of a tax cut or some other token gesture.

I'm beginning to think Shatter played hard ball with Enda and if he was going to be sacrificed maybe he simply reminded Enda of his damning role in all of this.

Seems like Callinan has had legal advice because there hasn't been a peep from him.

Re Shatter and Kenny, that would be my thinking also. kenny knew since last April. As for Callinan, after Connolly being sacrificed by Shatter to save his own skin, Callinan probably keeping his head down figuring he`ll go the same was for the same reason.

fr3d12

charlie14 wrote: »

Re Shatter and Kenny, that would be my thinking also. kenny knew since last April. As for Callinan, after Connolly being sacrificed by Shatter to save his own skin, Callinan probably keeping his head down figuring he`ll go the same was for the same reason.

Callinan is safe IMO, he has too much on Shatter and by extension Kenny.
This whole sorry saga is an insult to the memory of Mrs Roche Kelly, my heart goes out to her family who have to listen to all those idiots on TV playing down the whole thing.

holyhead

Enda Kenny would be doing faith in politics and faith in the sincerity of the Irish government a power of good by relieving Alan Shatter of his duties. The problem is even if this happens he will still get his fat pension. This grieves me so much. Their is a smugness and smarmy way about Alan Shatter that prevents me from warming to him. I'm sure he's not a bad person but he has slipped up here and needs to be replaced.

Going Forward

And we thought Fianna Fail were so bad.

Don't get me wrong, I've not forgotten and not defending them, but this shower is just as shameless.

Lies, loyalty to party above the people, I thought we were promised a new way of politics and some honour.

Scum, the lot of them.

Going Forward

holyhead wrote: »

Enda Kenny would be doing faith in politics and faith in the sincerity of the Irish government a power of good by relieving Alan Shatter of his duties. The problem is even if this happens he will still get his fat pension. This grieves me so much. Their is a smugness and smarmy way about Alan Shatter that prevents me from warming to him. I'm sure he's not a bad person but he has slipped up here and needs to be replaced.

It's hard to warm to someone so smarmy and condescending, but his constituents seemed to like it....strange people.

_Kaiser_

Going Forward wrote: »

And we thought Fianna Fail were so bad.

Don't get me wrong, I've not forgotten and not defending them, but this shower is just as shameless.

Lies, loyalty to party above the people, I thought we were promised a new way of politics and some honour.

Scum, the lot of them.

They're actually worse IMO. FF wrecked the place but ironically delivered what they promised - that the party would continue as long as possible!

FG and LAB told outright lies to get elected (and later admitted to it), have thoroughly completed the job started by their predecessors, and are up to their necks in scandals and arrogance of a whole new level.

The real question is where the hell do we as a country go from here with those choices?

golfball37

fr3d12 wrote: »

Callinan is safe IMO, he has too much on Shatter and by extension Kenny.
This whole sorry saga is an insult to the memory of Mrs Roche Kelly, my heart goes out to her family who have to listen to all those idiots on TV playing down the whole thing.

Indeed its makes a mockery now of their use of Jean McConville's name to answer any future questions from Adams or SF. They don't gve a toss about another innocent woman who was murdered judging by what Noonan aid on Newstalk earlier.

The gist of it was "What was all the fuss about, someone was charged with Mrs Roche-Kelly's death"

I really despair for the standard of person we elevate here.

Bits_n_Bobs

Shatter needs to resign. Sadly I'm in agreement with most posters here in believing that he won't.

Callinan should also step down. At this stage I really believe they have to recruit from outside the jurisdiction to replace him and begin to restore the Irish peoples faith in the force.

All in all another shambolic and depressing failure of governance, accountability and transparency.

I find it hard to believe that so little has changed, that so few lessons have been learned and that we are still so bereft of any leadership over the last 5 years that this is all utterly predictable and that something similar will in all likelihood reoccur sooner rather than later.

holyhead

The great line from the Who track springs to mind "meet the new boss, same as the old boss"

Going Forward

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

They're actually worse IMO. FF wrecked the place but ironically delivered what they promised - that the party would continue as long as possible!

FG and LAB told outright lies to get elected (and later admitted to it), have thoroughly completed the job started by their predecessors, and are up to their necks in scandals and arrogance of a whole new level.

The real question is where the hell do we as a country go from here with those choices?

I know one thing, I'll seriously considered voting FF next time.

With so much external control over the country anyway, I can't see it making any difference.

Kenny and co set out their stall, were given a chance to prove this new way of doing things but quickly reverted to form.