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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread III

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    #182
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Thought the breakdown was a bit of a mess tbh. He allowed both sides to spoil the ball too much. He also gave us a penalty for the scots holding on when Henry was off his feet and in from the side, I was amazed he gave us the penalty.


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    #183
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    .ak wrote: »
    Yeah the incident you're talking about was when Toner was pinned at the bottom of the ruck. In that case I think Joubert knew he got it wrong and so made up this high standard story. The reality is players can't always roll away, but if they don't interfere with the ball then it doesn't matter. Toner wasn't interfering with play and I think that's why he shouldn't have pinged him.

    Later on the breakdowns became a mess because that 'high standard' completely disappeared.
    I thought that was particularly unfair on Toner who'd made a great tackle and turned his man over to present the ball for a steal and then released him. He couldn't move in any direction and Joubert knew it, hence the rather limp explanation.


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    #184
    P.Walnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 4,759 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    Hagz wrote: »
    I can think of a few arguments. Both chased the kicks well, but Dave Kearney showed far more commitment in the arial battle than Trimble did. That's one of Kearney's greatest qualities, he throws himself entirely into the arial challenges. It's why Sean Maitland had to hobble off the field. Personally, I've observed that Trimble not only tends to slow down in the challenge, but he also comes into the challenge tensed and braced for the collision, and it results in the ball bouncing out of his grasp even when he's in a position to take it.

    Personally I think this is the type of stuff people spout when they have already made up their mind about a player. You would prefer Kearney there, no problem with that, but the above is rubbish imo.

    What I noticed was Trimble putting his body on the line when one of the scottish back row was coming at him full pelt and putting the man to ground, questioning Trimble's appetite for collisions is a bit bizarre imo


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    #185
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,527 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Have to agree really. For example in the first half Dave Kearney needed a last ditch tackle from Murray and Sexton to stop a Scotland try when he couldn't stop the Scottish forward (can't remember who) who ran down his channel from the retreating scrum.


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    #186
    The Pheasant2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,699 ✭✭✭The Pheasant2


    I thought Trimble's best work yesterday was at the breakdowns, clearing people out, and the try of course. However as Hagz pointed out we can't afford him missing the tackle after the kick chase vs. Wales as Cuthbert/North will make us pay dearly. That said I wouldn't advocate dropping Trimble, I would just want to be certain he won't get slipped in a one on one


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    #187
    Brewster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭Brewster


    P.Walnuts wrote: »
    Personally I think this is the type of stuff people spout when they have already made up their mind about a player. You would prefer Kearney there, no problem with that, but the above is rubbish imo.

    What I noticed was Trimble putting his body on the line when one of the scottish back row was coming at him full pelt and putting the man to ground, questioning Trimble's appetite for collisions is a bit bizarre imo

    One of the main reasons Trimble should be in the team is for his physicality, particularly in defensive situations! Kearney is good player, but if Fitz doesn't make if, I'd like to see Fergus get the 11 shirt. Replacing Trimble at 14 is simply stupid, I doubt Joe would risk it. When Tommy is fit, fine, by all means.


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    #188
    Hagz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    P.Walnuts wrote: »
    Personally I think this is the type of stuff people spout when they have already made up their mind about a player. You would prefer Kearney there, no problem with that, but the above is rubbish imo.

    What I noticed was Trimble putting his body on the line when one of the scottish back row was coming at him full pelt and putting the man to ground, questioning Trimble's appetite for collisions is a bit bizarre imo

    Well first of all, I never questioned Trimble's appetite in defence. Not once. I questioned his commitment in the air on the kick chase. I think Kearney is better than him in this area. Secondly, your memory of that incident is rather flattering to Trimble. He didn't so much put his man down, as get bumped by Tim Swinson who then took himself to ground in the process. And please don't interpret that as a negative comment towards Trimble. Just giving a more realistic account of what happened.

    If you believe it's rubbish then so be it. There is nothing at all I can do about that unfortunately.

    awec wrote: »
    Have to agree really. For example in the first half Dave Kearney needed a last ditch tackle from Murray and Sexton to stop a Scotland try when he couldn't stop the Scottish forward (can't remember who) who ran down his channel from the retreating scrum.

    It was Dave Denton. Kearney went too high and it took 4 Irish players to take him into touch. You could very well use that as an example of Kearney's inadequacies in defence. Funnily enough, it was Heaslip who initially missed the tackle by going too high as well.


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    #189
    former legend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭former legend


    awec wrote: »
    Have to agree really. For example in the first half Dave Kearney needed a last ditch tackle from Murray and Sexton to stop a Scotland try when he couldn't stop the Scottish forward (can't remember who) who ran down his channel from the retreating scrum.

    But just like the post you're disagreeing with, you're using a single incident to form a general opinion. Dave K is very good in defence, in general, just like Trimble is very strong in collision, in general.


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    #190
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,239 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Joubert was poor overall, pinged toner twice and was incorrect both times.
    His calling of ball out was dodgy to saw the least and while it may not have looked out, the players were of the understanding that he said it was out.


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    #191
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,527 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    former legend wrote: »
    But just like the post you're disagreeing with, you're using a single incident to form a general opinion. Dave K is very good in defence, in general, just like Trimble is very strong in collision, in general.

    I'm not really forming any general opinion.

    Hagz said that in general Trimble's mistakes were more costly. Kearney nearly cost us a try, only for Murray and Sexton to rescue us.

    Of course Kearney isn't bad in defence, if he was bad in defence he wouldn't be playing at test level. But I believe Trimble would have brought Denton down.


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    #192
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    awec wrote: »
    I'm not really forming any general opinion.

    Hagz said that in general Trimble's mistakes were more costly. Kearney nearly cost us a try, only for Murray and Sexton to rescue us.

    Of course Kearney isn't bad in defence, if he was bad in defence he wouldn't be playing at test level. But I believe Trimble would have brought Denton down.
    This is a bit of a nonsense discussion. No offense to anyone here, but why are we discussing hypothetical non-events?

    Both wingers were very good, and did all that was asked of them. There were fifteen missed tackles by Ireland, finger pointing is ridiculous. The whole squad needs to up their game in that department. I'm sure they will.

    I would imagine the priorities would be getting the missed tackle count down, keeping the penalty count down and also reducing the turnover count and handling errors.


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    #193
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Did Denton not hand off Heaslip?


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    #194
    The Rooster
    Registered Users Posts: 4,465 ✭✭✭The Rooster


    .ak wrote: »
    We shouldn't be looking at the 22 jersey as a replacement kicker.

    Its a very important part of the job and a big part of the reason Madigan was on the bench during the Autumn.


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    #195
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,527 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The Rooster wrote: »
    Its a very important part of the job and a big part of the reason Madigan was on the bench during the Autumn.

    Don't think that's true at all.


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    #196
    Hagz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    The Pheasant2 wrote: »
    I thought Trimble's best work yesterday was at the breakdowns, clearing people out

    This isn't a response aimed solely at you Pheasant, as this is a comment that I think has been repeated a bit on here, and I know that Demented Mole mentioned it on his review, but I cannot see how anyone who has legitimately reviewed the game and seen Trimble's influence at the breakdown can make such a comment.

    To commend Trimble for his clearing out yesterday, would be doing him a great disservice. He's a better player than that. Quite frankly his clearing out was completely ordinary, and at times poor. And I'm quite happy to debate this as I have looked at him closely in this area. I can highlight one ruck where he cleared out well, it was 66:30, he cleared Duncan Weir out. But there isn't one noteworthy moment in the rest of the game. Some times his attempts were downright terrible. For example 54:37 and 54:50.

    I'm going to come across like I have some sort of vendetta against Trimble here:pac:. But I just would like to see what everyone else apparently saw yesterday.


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    #197
    gaius c
    Registered Users Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭gaius c


    awec wrote: »
    I'm not really forming any general opinion.

    Hagz said that in general Trimble's mistakes were more costly. Kearney nearly cost us a try, only for Murray and Sexton to rescue us.

    Of course Kearney isn't bad in defence, if he was bad in defence he wouldn't be playing at test level. But I believe Trimble would have brought Denton down.

    When Denton got put down in the corner?
    It was actually POM & Murray who shoved him into touch.


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    #198
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,527 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    gaius c wrote: »
    When Denton got put down in the corner?
    It was actually POM & Murray who shoved him into touch.

    I knew it was Murray and someone! :D


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    #199
    gaius c
    Registered Users Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭gaius c


    awec wrote: »
    I knew it was Murray and someone! :D

    All those Munster stock people look alike, don't they?

    [This is a joke, before anybody reports me]


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    #200
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,986 ✭✭✭✭phog


    ScissorPaperRock wrote: »
    In fairness, I can't really make any argument without knowing the details. I probably shouldn't have taken that position. It's probably just a default reaction to a suing culture.

    But if there was negligence on the part of the IRFU then fair enough. Otherwise, I can't respect that.

    I'll edit my initial post accordingly.

    Fair play.

    I like you have a similar attitude to the "suing/insurance culture" in Ireland but I'm not sure how I'd behave if I had a work accident and felt my employer was in some way responsible so I'd find it hard to judge TOL in this case.


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    #201
    Hagz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    Against the Head RTE 2, 10 mins.


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    #202
    chris85
    Registered Users Posts: 4,502 ✭✭✭chris85


    Hagz wrote: »
    Against the Head RTE 2, 10 mins.

    Was just about to post this also. Looking forward to it.


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    #203
    Hagz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    "3 of the 5 previous time we played Scotland we lost"

    :confused:

    Am I missing something here?
    Tom McGurk said the same thing on Saturday

    EDIT: Nvm, we played them in Aug 2011 apparently and lost.


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    #204
    Thekidneybean
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Thekidneybean


    Just realized I put tommy O'Donnell on my fantasy rugby team when I meant to put jamie heaslip on....NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!


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    #205
    accidentprone1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 541 ✭✭✭accidentprone1


    Not sure if it's been posted yet:

    Injury update - Reddan and Fitz still out.

    http://www.thescore.ie/ireland-injury-update-wales-1299072-Feb2014/


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    #206
    sullivlo
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,994 Mod ✭✭✭✭sullivlo


    I just heard on the radio that O'Connell and Rob Kearney sat out training with chest infection and calf strain respectively.


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    #207
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    sullivlo wrote: »
    I just heard on the radio that O'Connell and Rob Kearney sat out training with chest infection and calf strain respectively.
    Both expected to make it. Kearney got a knock in the match, not a calf strain.

    http://thescore.thejournal.ie/ireland-injury-update-wales-1299072-Feb2014/


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    #208
    Stupify
    Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭Stupify


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    I'm just thinking out loud here I've no facts what so ever but don't the IRFU have a clause that if you're injured for a % of the season they can reduce your pay?

    TOL was injured alot around then so if they did do this and it was a poorly operating training machine was one of the reasons why he was out injured you can see why he would want to take them to court.

    I can't see him wanting to come back to an Irish team again either.

    He's never coming back to Munster anyway, that's for sure. But might end up at Connacht to end his career?


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    #209
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,986 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Stupify wrote: »
    He's never coming back to Munster anyway, that's for sure. But might end up at Connacht to end his career?

    When he left I thought he'd return to Munster but I doubt that now especially if Murray stays around.


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    #210
    Stupify
    Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭Stupify


    phog wrote: »
    When he left I thought he'd return to Munster but I doubt that now especially if Murray stays around.

    I don't think Munster would take him back, even if he was playing the best rugby of his life, even if Murray left us. Hopefully someone younger comes along as an able back-up for Murray.


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    #211
    eire4
    Registered Users Posts: 6,642 ✭✭✭eire4


    accidentprone1 wrote: »
    Not sure if it's been posted yet:

    Injury update - Reddan and Fitz still out.

    http://www.thescore.ie/ireland-injury-update-wales-1299072-Feb2014/



    Not as big a blow as not having O'Brien and Ferris but it would have been good to have Reddan and Fitzgerald as options off the bench given how well they have played recently for Leinster this season.


This discussion has been closed.
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