Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread III

justsomebloke

carried on from here

ssaye2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ2HcRl4wSk

danthefan

Just carrying on from the discussion on 10s, there was a settling in period when McKenzie took over the Aus team, but once that was over, Cooper has been absolutely excellent. Seems to have matured hugely, has been made a squad vice-captain, and imo on that form is easily one of the best 10s in the world. Has an ability to make something out of nothing that even Carter can't match imo. Carter has obviously played at an incredibly high level for a lot longer however. Cruden is another really excellent player who seamlessly stepped into the NZ team when Carter was out.

Teferi

From the last thread...

.ak wrote: »

Just noticed BOD is 3 caps away from matching Gregan's record, and 4 caps away from being the most capped player in history.

If ever someone put the mockers on BOD, it was you in this moment.

Tox56

danthefan wrote: »

Just carrying on from the discussion on 10s, there was a settling in period when McKenzie took over the Aus team,

A lot of people were writing off Aus initially when McKenzie took over as their results were pretty dire, but they have been playing some great stuff recently. Hopefully Schmidt gets some leeway in terms of the number of games before people start expecting top quality performances, although the NZ game could work against him in that respect, people will have pretty high expectations based on that.

andymx11

Tox56 wrote: »

A lot of people were writing off Aus initially when McKenzie took over as their results were pretty dire, but they have been playing some great stuff recently. Hopefully Schmidt gets some leeway in terms of the number of games before people start expecting top quality performances, although the NZ game could work against him in that respect, people will have pretty high expectations based on that.

He might have it slightly easier considering he has worked with many of these players before however there should still be a good bit of leeway no matter what. The change from club to international should warrent that alone.

The Pheasant2

I wonder if with Fitz gone there's a greater chance of Joe playing Madigan on the bench over Jackson to compensate for the loss in attacking threat

awec

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

I wonder if with Fitz gone there's a greater chance of Joe playing Madigan on the bench over Jackson to compensate for the loss in attacking threat

I really hope not. He hasn't been good enough this year.

19543261

awec wrote: »

I really hope not. He hasn't been good enough this year.

I dont think Madigan has been as bad as others do, but if Schimdt is creating an environment which rewards form, he'd be plainly undermining that if he left Jackson out. He wont do that.

who_me

19543261 wrote: »

I dont think Madigan has been as bad as others do, but if Schimdt is creating an environment which rewards form, he'd be plainly undermining that if he left Jackson out. He wont do that.

Still, having a backup 10 - even if on excellent form - who isn't the first choice penalty kicker sets off all kinds of alarm bells in my head. If he's to be our backup - or future 1st choice - he needs to be taking the pressure kicks regularly in the big, must-win games.

Taking the pressure off him at Ulster, then dumping it upon him tenfold for Ireland won't work.

freyners

who_me wrote: »

Still, having a backup 10 - even if on excellent form - who isn't the first choice penalty kicker sets off all kinds of alarm bells in my head. If he's to be our backup - or future 1st choice - he needs to be taking the pressure kicks regularly in the big, must-win games.

Taking the pressure off him at Ulster, then dumping it upon him tenfold for Ireland won't work.

McFadden could always take over if Joe feels hes not up to kicking. The idea that our ten has to kick is a bit out dated. Im sure Jackson is fine to kick though

He's not kicked in the last 3 games, but he's been kicking (and well) for much of the season!

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/team/profile.aspx?TeamID=101756&PersonID=155725

Clearlier

freyners wrote: »

McFadden could always take over if Joe feels hes not up to kicking. The idea that our ten has to kick is a bit out dated. Im sure Jackson is fine to kick though

Even if we know that he's a good kicker, he rarely kicks for Leinster and even more rarely in pressure situations. If the lack of high pressure kicking experience is a problem for Jackson it's a bigger problem for McFadden.

.ak

Teferi wrote: »

From the last thread...



If ever someone put the mockers on BOD, it was you in this moment.

I was wondering why nobody else was pointing it out...

bilston

who_me wrote: »

Still, having a backup 10 - even if on excellent form - who isn't the first choice penalty kicker sets off all kinds of alarm bells in my head. If he's to be our backup - or future 1st choice - he needs to be taking the pressure kicks regularly in the big, must-win games.

Taking the pressure off him at Ulster, then dumping it upon him tenfold for Ireland won't work.

Jackson has kicked loads this season. He was kicking in the first four HEC group matches ahead of Pienaar.

Podge_irl

Clearlier wrote: »

Even if we know that he's a good kicker, he rarely kicks for Leinster and even more rarely in pressure situations. If the lack of high pressure kicking experience is a problem for Jackson it's a bigger problem for McFadden.

Jackson will be fine to kick but honestly I wouldn't have the slightest worry about McFadden stepping up. I've seen him have one bad game from the tee ever, and it was in horrendous conditions. I don't think he has the range that Sexton or Madigan would have but I think he's a more accurate kicker.

molloyjh

Podge_irl wrote: »

Jackson will be fine to kick but honestly I wouldn't have the slightest worry about McFadden stepping up. I've seen him have one bad game from the tee ever, and it was in horrendous conditions. I don't think he has the range that Sexton or Madigan would have but I think he's a more accurate kicker.

He also had a rib injury that day IIRC. His percentages outside of that were excellent.

Kayless

Tox56 wrote: »

A lot of people were writing off Aus initially when McKenzie took over as their results were pretty dire, but they have been playing some great stuff recently. Hopefully Schmidt gets some leeway in terms of the number of games before people start expecting top quality performances, although the NZ game could work against him in that respect, people will have pretty high expectations based on that.

Aus were lucky enough to have so many games last year to bed in under Mckenzie.

One thing I have noticed recently is that the provinces seem to be playing more and more like Ireland did during the AI's. It's hard to explain but for example the choke tackle and the driving maul are being utilised a lot more by the provinces. This is interesting because when you hear about Schmidt giving players "work ons" and take into account that we now have 3 teams in the last eight in europe, it would seem Schmidts influence on the players and these work ons have had an impact.

My point is that even though Schmidt hasn't had the same amount of time with the Irish players as Mckenzie has had with the Aus players, he's has been able to get round these time constraints by making competition for places and giving players work ons, so that when they do arrive at Irelands training camps they are ready to go and know what they need to do. I don't think it's an accident that we have 3 provinces out of 4 in the last 8 in Europe, this to me is proof that not only do we have the players to win the 6 nations but more importantly we have the coach to win it.

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

I wonder if with Fitz gone there's a greater chance of Joe playing Madigan on the bench over Jackson to compensate for the loss in attacking threat

Fitz is gone? Is he out for both games? Haven't seen anything about this.

former legend

Kayless wrote: »

Fitz is gone? Is he out for both games? Haven't seen anything about this.

Not confirmed but he allegedly has a groin strain that is going to keep him out.

Kayless

former legend wrote: »

Not confirmed but he allegedly has a groin strain that is going to keep him out.

Thats a shame, I was backing Fitz to have a go at the Scots with the way he has been playing recently. Lets hope he's back for Wales.

I would love to see him and Bowe starting on the wings against England especially if both teams are going into the match with 2 wins. England have a few new caps on the wings and I think Fitz and Bowe are our most experienced wingers, would give us an advantage.

who_me

Deleted User wrote: »

He's not kicked in the last 3 games, but he's been kicking (and well) for much of the season!

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/team/profile.aspx?TeamID=101756&PersonID=155725

I don't doubt his ability/technique. But when the kicking duties are taken from him for the crunch pool ties (regardless of the reason, even if it's to "let him focus on his game" etc.), it leaves a big unknown. I wouldn't want him being brought on in a tight 6N game with a championship/Grand Slam at stake when he hasn't had kicking duties in all the HEC pool games.

IMO, the constant pressure of taking those kicks would make him a better player.

sydthebeat

who_me wrote: »

I don't doubt his ability/technique. But when the kicking duties are taken from him for the crunch pool ties (regardless of the reason, even if it's to "let him focus on his game" etc.), it leaves a big unknown. I wouldn't want him being brought on in a tight 6N game with a championship/Grand Slam at stake when he hasn't had kicking duties in all the HEC pool games.

IMO, the constant pressure of taking those kicks would make him a better player.

i think jackson has had enough pressure kicks over the last two years to leave him in a good place for this years 6N.

Rigor Mortis

to be fair to PJ i dont think kicking is an issue. I do think though having an option at 10, 12 and 15 in Madigan makes a very strong case for inclusion over Jackson though.

sydthebeat

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

to be fair to PJ i dont think kicking is an issue. I do think though having an option at 10, 12 and 15 in Madigan makes a very strong case for inclusion over Jackson though.

mc fadden covers 12 and wings from bench, D Kearney cover 15 and has played a lot more at 15 than madigan.

jacothelad

who_me wrote: »

Still, having a backup 10 - even if on excellent form - who isn't the first choice penalty kicker sets off all kinds of alarm bells in my head. If he's to be our backup - or future 1st choice - he needs to be taking the pressure kicks regularly in the big, must-win games.

Taking the pressure off him at Ulster, then dumping it upon him tenfold for Ireland won't work.

Jackson took all the kicks for Ulster in every game he played up to the Munster, Montpellier and Tigers games. He is as much first choice kicker at Ulster as is Pienaar. Pienaar was away with S.A.until the first ERC game. Jackson kicked in the first 4 ERC games. This patronising rubbish about taking the pressure off him at Ulster is bilge and tired bilge at that. Actually Madigan being a better kicker is a more valid reason to bench than Pienaar kicking in a 3 games out of the 18 that Ulster have played so far this season. Pienaar can kick long range goals that very few can. He is on average no better a kicker than Jackson apart from distance. There is little between the two young lads. Jackson seems to run a back line and bring in others better. Madigan is more likely to do the unexpected. Toss of a coin.

The Pheasant2

former legend wrote: »

Not confirmed but he allegedly has a groin strain that is going to keep him out.

It's one of his lower abdominal muscles, and without giving anything away I can confirm he'll be out for Scotland and most probably Wales

jacothelad

jacothelad wrote: »

Jackson took all the kicks for Ulster in every game he played up to the Munster, Montpellier and Tigers games. He is as much first choice kicker at Ulster as is Pienaar. Pienaar was away with S.A.until the first ERC game. Jackson kicked in the first 4 ERC games. This patronising rubbish about taking the pressure off him at Ulster is bilge and tired bilge at that. Actually Madigan being a better kicker is a more valid reason to bench than Pienaar kicking in a 3 games out of the 18 that Ulster have played so far this season. Pienaar can kick long range goals that very few can. He is on average no better a kicker than Jackson apart from distance. There is little between the two young lads. Jackson seems to run a back line and bring in others better. Madigan is more likely to do the unexpected. Toss of a coin.

in the long term, yes, I don't think that either player will ever pull away from the other.

In the short term, Jackson has been performing consistently and playing consistently. He's the better out half right now.

ScissorPaperRock

jacothelad wrote: »

Pienaar can kick long range goals that very few can. He is on average no better a kicker than Jackson apart from distance.

I wonder would Pienaar be at a disadvantage in terms of his kicking stats for his tendency to take on longer shots though.

Not saying that as a slight on Jackson, I agree he's been kicking well. But it's no shame to have to share duties with Pienaar IMO.

jacothelad wrote: »

Jackson seems to run a back line and bring in others better. Madigan is more likely to do the unexpected. Toss of a coin.

I'd say the value of the former is greater than the value of the latter. I'd rather have a well-functioning group of backs over the period of a game rather than be reliant on a moment of individual brilliance.

awec

ScissorPaperRock wrote: »

I wonder would Pienaar's at a disadvantage in terms of his kicking stats for his tendency to take on longer shots though.

Not saying that as a slight on Jackson, I agree he's been kicking well. But it's no shame to have to share duties with Pienaar IMO.

It probably affects his stats a bit alright. Don't think it'd be a big lot though.

Tox56

jacothelad wrote: »

This patronising rubbish about taking the pressure off him at Ulster is bilge and tired bilge at that. He is on average no better a kicker than Jackson apart from distance.

If that is the case, then should Schmidt not insist that Ulster let Jackson take the kicks within his range for the big games? I don't know what prompted the change from the first 4 H Cup games, but kickers do need to practice kicking under extreme pressure to be able to perform in those conditions, particularly a 22 year old like Jackson.

dr.kenneth noisewater

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

It's one of his lower abdominal muscles, and without giving anything away I can confirm he'll be out for Scotland and most probably Wales

Tough break on him again after the last couple seasons.

jacothelad

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

to be fair to PJ i dont think kicking is an issue. I do think though having an option at 10, 12 and 15 in Madigan makes a very strong case for inclusion over Jackson though.

Madigan is an outstanding 10 but an indifferent 12 and 15. Just because a guy wears the shirt doesn't mean he's any good in that position. Kidney often moved Sexton in to 12 to get ROG on. He took off a great 12 and replaced him with an inferior one and moved out a better 10 and replaced him with an inferior one. It didn't work then, it wouldn't work now. We need to get away from this nonsense. If Madigan is the better 10 then he should be on the bench. If Jackson is the better 10 he should be on the bench.

The Pheasant2

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

Tough break on him again after the last couple seasons.

Yeah he's been really unfortunate with injuries

CatFromHue

I'd much prefer either of McFadden moving to 12 or Fitzgerald or D.Kearney moving to 15 than Madigan moving to either of those spots myself.

jacothelad

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'd much prefer either of McFadden moving to 12 or Fitzgerald or D.Kearney moving to 15 than Madigan moving to either of those spots myself.

I agree BUT.........You've seen Fitz at 15.....:eek::eek::eek:?

Tox56

We are fine for cover with 22. Jackson 23. McFadden

10 injured = Jackson

12 injured = McFadden/Sexton to 12 (either better than Madigan imo)

13 injured = Eek, hopefully Fitzgerald is fit, but Madigan wouldn't make a difference here anyway

Winger injured = McFadden

Fullback injured = Dave K (certainly better than Madigan)

thomond2006

Tox56 wrote: »

We are fine for cover with 22. Jackson 23. McFadden

10 injured = Jackson

12 injured = McFadden/Sexton to 12 (either better than Madigan imo)

13 injured = Eek, hopefully Fitzgerald is fit, but Madigan wouldn't make a difference here anyway

Winger injured = McFadden

Fullback injured = Dave K (certainly better than Madigan)

Epidemic in the squad = NOC

Woody1997

thomond2006 wrote: »

Epidemic in the squad = NOC

I saw he tweeted earlier saying his sister is on "The Voice" this year. Is he still playing at all?

its_phil

Woody1997 wrote: »

I saw he tweeted earlier saying his sister is on "The Voice" this year. Is he still playing at all?

He's at Jersey or Esher IIRC?

jacothelad

Woody1997 wrote: »

I saw he tweeted earlier saying his sister is on "The Voice" this year. Is he still playing at all?

Plays for Jersey in the Championship.

who_me

jacothelad wrote: »

Jackson took all the kicks for Ulster in every game he played up to the Munster, Montpellier and Tigers games. He is as much first choice kicker at Ulster as is Pienaar. Pienaar was away with S.A.until the first ERC game. Jackson kicked in the first 4 ERC games. This patronising rubbish about taking the pressure off him at Ulster is bilge and tired bilge at that. Actually Madigan being a better kicker is a more valid reason to bench than Pienaar kicking in a 3 games out of the 18 that Ulster have played so far this season. Pienaar can kick long range goals that very few can. He is on average no better a kicker than Jackson apart from distance. There is little between the two young lads. Jackson seems to run a back line and bring in others better. Madigan is more likely to do the unexpected. Toss of a coin.

I don't particularly care why he's not kicking. I'd just want any player in our 23 to be playing in position at provincial level, fulfilling the roles of that position in all the pressure games. The best preparation for him kicking a must-score penalty in a 6N Test is to be doing the same every week for Ulster.

When's the last time he was the kicker in a match, December? I don't see why it's contentious to be a little concerned by that. No one's doubting his talent.

bilston

who_me wrote: »

I don't particularly care why he's not kicking. I'd just want any player in our 23 to be playing in position at provincial level, fulfilling the roles of that position in all the pressure games. The best preparation for him kicking a must-score penalty in a 6N Test is to be doing the same every week for Ulster.

When's the last time he was the kicker in a match, December? I don't see why it's contentious to be a little concerned by that. No one's doubting his talent.

Jackson might not be kicking in every single game but he starts them as first choice!

eire4

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

It's one of his lower abdominal muscles, and without giving anything away I can confirm he'll be out for Scotland and most probably Wales

That is a real blow. Fitzgerald has been in very good form and I really was sure he was going to get a try Sunday.

mystic86

so has Pope been given the boot by RTE?! Or is it just this weekend he isn't appearing, or whats going on?!

Orlaw3136

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

It's one of his lower abdominal muscles, and without giving anything away I can confirm he'll be out for Scotland and most probably Wales

Keeeeerist that's miserable. What does the bloke have to do to get a few months injury free ? He'll be missed too.

Morf

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

It's one of his lower abdominal muscles, and without giving anything away I can confirm he'll be out for Scotland and most probably Wales

How much more can you realistically give away?

His hydration levels? White blood cell count?

I'll wait for the team sheet tomorrow. Too many of these posts appear before big games.

awec

Before the squad announcement later today which I'm sure is going to cause a few points of discussion I am reminding people about the no tolerance for muppetry that is in place. Please read and re-read the notice posted at the top of the forum.

Any talk of provincial bias, or Schmidt having to prove he's not biased, or any other mind numbing provincial crap will see you infracted/banned.

Over the top criticisms of players or over the top gushing over players to the point where it's clear you are aiming to get a reaction will see you get the boot.

Remember that this is a discussion forum, you should be able to back up what you say. Even if it's just your opinion. "Player X is twice as good as Player Y" is a nothing statement and will only raise suspicions that you are trying to get people to react.

Yamanoto

Given what Thornley's got wind of, I'm sure things will be lively come the morrow.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/luke-marshall-andrew-trimble-and-chris-henry-set-to-start-for-ireland-against-scotland-1.1674155

POSSIBLE IRELAND XV (to face Scotland); Rob Kearney (Leinster); Andrew Trimble (Ulster), Brian O’Driscoll (Leinster), Luke Marshall (Ulster), Dave Kearney (Leinster); Johnny Sexton (Racing Metro) , Conor Murray (Munster); Cian Healy (Leinster) , Rory Best (Ulster), Mike Ross (Leinster), Devin Toner (Leinster), Paul O’Connell (Munster, capt), Peter O’Mahony (Munster), Chris Henry (Ulster), Jamie Heaslip (Leinster). Replacements: Jack McGrath, Sean Cronin, Marty Moore, Dan Tuohy, Tommy O’Donnell, Isaac Boss, Paddy Jackson, Fergus McFadden.

Hagz

Exactly what I expected other than Tuohy on the bench.

CatFromHue

Yamanoto wrote: »

Given what Thornley's got wind of, I'm sure things will be lively come the morrow.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/luke-marshall-andrew-trimble-and-chris-henry-set-to-start-for-ireland-against-scotland-1.1674155

The team looks good.

Yamanoto

Quite looking forward to seeing TO'D & Marty Moore getting a run out.