The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2014

evolving tipperary

The second half was such a disappointment...

we had no one who could take the game by the scruff of the neck...that's worrying. Same against Waterford. I think Bergin is wing or midfield...

I would like to see Denis Maher get 70 mins next week - the Clare game should be a test. They should be stung after last year in the league - the waterford final just gone and beaten today - Clare should come with a bit of sting with them. I don't care about the movement in the forwards. Two points and safety, please. Then concentrate on finding options for the championship... When will we get a look at Hamill or Kennedy?

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

The second half was such a disappointment...

we had no one who could take the game by the scruff of the neck...that's worrying. Same against Waterford. I think Bergin is wing or midfield...

I would like to see Denis Maher get 70 mins next week - the Clare game should be a test. They should be stung after last year in the league - the waterford final just gone and beaten today - Clare should come with a bit of sting with them. I don't care about the movement in the forwards. Two points and safety, please. Then concentrate on finding options for the championship... When will we get a look at Hamill or Kennedy?

To be fair to O'Shea, injury, College cups and u21 football have claimed a good few of the younger players so the year has been frustrating in that regard.

If its any consolation our u21's easily won the challenge across the road in OLG's ground today. Wasn't at it myself but a friend of mine was telling me they dominated the game.

The one thing i noticed about Kilkenny today is the power, combined with speed and movement of their forwards. Normally speed can be a trade off for the bit of extra bulk but their ability to create space and run riot is highly impressive.

Alpha Dog 1

Kilkenny definitely offer unbelievable speed and power. We are actually quite a slow team, will be interesting to see how we go against clare.

Kilkenny were also far superior in the air. We have very few who can compete in the air. It has been apparent over the last few years that as soon as we start to tire our backs start launching high ball into the forwards which aren't worth a ****e.

premierstone

evolving tipperary wrote: »

No I don't think we have any players approaching five All-Irelands and just as many all-stars each...sorry we just don't. This is a results business. Winning is winning, the best habit and tradition. You talk what tipperary would take from today's game, yes there were positives. But Kilkenny will take more positives...obviously. They won and and fought back, had the character to come back after conceding four goals. They have to fear of Tipp...and why would they? So whatever we took from it today. surely you can see Kilkenny took more?

Larkin, Hogan, Power, Michael Fennelly - while around a long time - are still in their twenties...and at the core of KK best players.

Clare are ALL-Ireland champs...and they managed to beat KK whereas we did not. Clare's tony Kelly was pure today - but only because he had a tour de force against UL during the week. In a game nobody thought LIT could win...That Clare team have won at minor and under 21 and now at senior. Yes, maybe KK will devour them like they devoured our talented bunch after 2010...but I think Clare are made of sterner stuff at the core of their team - they don't panic and do not wilt.

I'm hopeful for Tipperary...but we are behind Clare and KK as far as I can see.

Kilkenny keep beating us...and it is a blow every time. A blow to belief...

It was a real chance to make that KK team question themselves with two losses in a row against two big rivals...

But we do! Of the players I mentioned all have multiple AI's and all stars although what past achievements have to do with the future Im not sure? Actually on a side to this how many all stars and AI medals do Tommy Walsh and Brian Hogan have?? And they both taken off at half time with their arses handed to them?

You seem to be putting a huge emphasis on league form, so I assume Clare are in crisis now after suffering a 6 point loss to the dubs?

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Where would play Cahill in the championship? What did you think of Bergin today

Cahill IMO is the best hurler in the country and could play anywhere, personally I would love to see him midfield with Brendan, either that or wingback with Brendan and Noel midfield.

tippspur wrote: »

Cahill was great again today,might be worth a try further up the field maybe in the middle,Bergin was poor I thought,he's a wing back not a wing forward imo.Another poor performance from Forde and Paddy Murphy,Forde might improve but Murphy isn't good enough unfortunately.

Paddy Murphy is shocking, no excuses he just isnt within an asses roar of a county hurler, even when Tipp were flowing in the first half he looked out of place.

evolving tipperary wrote: »

The second half was such a disappointment...

we had no one who could take the game by the scruff of the neck...that's worrying. Same against Waterford. I think Bergin is wing or midfield...

I would like to see Denis Maher get 70 mins next week - the Clare game should be a test. They should be stung after last year in the league - the waterford final just gone and beaten today - Clare should come with a bit of sting with them. I don't care about the movement in the forwards. Two points and safety, please. Then concentrate on finding options for the championship... When will we get a look at Hamill or Kennedy?

Both Hamill and Kennedy have been injured, hamill isnt good enough anyway and Ive seen more meat on a butchers pencil, Kennedy could be an option alright.

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

Kilkenny definitely offer unbelievable speed and power. We are actually quite a slow team, will be interesting to see how we go against clare.

Kilkenny were also far superior in the air. We have very few who can compete in the air. It has been apparent over the last few years that as soon as we start to tire our backs start launching high ball into the forwards which aren't worth a ****e.

Watch the game again please, Tipp actually won the aerial battle.

Alpha Dog 1

Tipp definitely didn't win the aerial battle especially in the second half and if you go back and watch every defeat we have had in the championship in last 3 years it is the same.

Did you see the championship defeat to kilkenny last year? We made hogan look like a superstar.

premierstone

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

Tipp definitely didn't win the aerial battle especially in the second half and if you go back and watch every defeat we have had in the championship in last 3 years it is the same.

Did you see the championship defeat to kilkenny last year? We made hogan look like a superstar.

Tipperary won 40 out of 71 puckouts over the 70 mins, how is that not winning the aerial battle?

Agreed it has been a huge problem over the last few years, that was one of the most encouraging things about yesterday.

I did see last years game, I was there actually and what I saw was Paul Murpohy give an exhibition but in the first 20 mins Lar had him in his pocket, Lar doesnt get injured we win that game comfortably IMO.

Fireball07

I'm going to watch this game in full when I get home this evening, looked like a cracker.

From the highlights, it looked like Cahill was playing wing-back? Huge fan of his, how did he go there? But any defence that concedes a lot of goals must be under a lot of pressure, both Walsh and Shefflin looked to have good games... and Fennelly was on huge form, was Paudie Maher at centre-back again? He got destroyed there by Mick Fennelly last year.


As I said, I'll watch it when I get home but at least Callanan and McGrath seemed to be in good form for ye're sakes... were kinda letdowns last year, and with the talent they have, you need them in form. Would persist with Jason Forde aswell, I think he's a class act.

Woodlock at midfield again? Must admit I had written him off, but he seems to be doing well... and Brendan Maher just oozes class, so that's a good midfield partnership if both are on form. I've talked ye up this year, but I think the kind of attacking movement you showed in the first half is what O'Shea can bring and few defences can live with that.

premierstone

Fireball07 wrote: »

I'm going to watch this game in full when I get home this evening, looked like a cracker.

From the highlights, it looked like Cahill was playing wing-back? Huge fan of his, how did he go there? But any defence that concedes a lot of goals must be under a lot of pressure, both Walsh and Shefflin looked to have good games... and Fennelly was on huge form, was Paudie Maher at centre-back again? He got destroyed there by Mick Fennelly last year.


As I said, I'll watch it when I get home but at least Callanan and McGrath seemed to be in good form for ye're sakes... were kinda letdowns last year, and with the talent they have, you need them in form. Would persist with Jason Forde aswell, I think he's a class act.

Woodlock at midfield again? Must admit I had written him off, but he seems to be doing well... and Brendan Maher just oozes class, so that's a good midfield partnership if both are on form. I've talked ye up this year, but I think the kind of attacking movement you showed in the first half is what O'Shea can bring and few defences can live with that.

Yeah was a great game, best I've seen in the round robin of the league ever.

Cahill started in the corner and came out to wing back and then midfield, he was immense and can hurl any where tbh.

Yeah the goals are a huge concern and 4 of our back 6 were destroyed, Paraic Maher is becoming a huge problem for Tipp and a big decision is going to have to be made, for me its either full back or good luck!

Woodlock is a workhorse and will always give it 100%, we have quite alot of prima donna types so I guess for balance we need a few Woodlocks! Brendan Maher, while better thawn he was against Waterford still wasn't on top form and is capable of better, I agree with you though a top form Brendan Maher is a joy to behold.

evolving tipperary

Actually on a side to this how many all stars and AI medals do Tommy Walsh and Brian Hogan have?? And they both taken off at half time with their arses handed to them?

Exactly- these lads won't be that bad again. They're too good and Tipp still couldn't beat them.

You seem to be putting a huge emphasis on league form, so I assume Clare are in crisis now after suffering a 6 point loss to the dubs?

Conversely, you're placing more on league form if you say the signs are positive!??!?! You are reading positively into a league defeat? Beaten by 6 points after being 10 points up? Clare beat KK...and performed - we beat Waterford and did not perform. There were positive signs just a hell of a lot more for KK...they seem to be finding the players we need...Mark Kelly and Walter Walsh...

I don't think Mullane is a genius but he knows about the game. I think he makes some good points here:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/hurling/2014/0223/506226-mullane-kilkenny-will-win-back-all-ireland/


Paddy Murphy is shocking, no excuses he just isnt within an asses roar of a county hurler, even when Tipp were flowing in the first half he looked out of place. =

You must give players time to develop - You mention him but he was better than Bergin - Murphy got a point and worked hard - He will get there as an option for tipp - it will take time - but we need to cultivate tall ball winners - he's an option - we can't just throw him away - he needs to learn his trade at senior level



Both Hamill and Kennedy have been injured, hamill isnt good enough anyway and Ive seen more meat on a butchers pencil, Kennedy could be an option alright.
= I think Hamill will come good - he's great in the air - pace is an issue - but O'mahony was never that fast - he must be given time to learn at this level too

ReacherCreature

premierstone wrote: »

Cahill IMO is the best hurler in the country and could play anywhere, personally I would love to see him midfield with Brendan, either that or wingback with Brendan and Noel midfield.

I'm a huge fan of Cahill but what're your reasons for having him as the best in the country? Absolutely not having a go, just curious as to why. He was magisterial yesterday and for the last few seasons. His two points from midfield were outrageous. I really didn't think he had that kind of point-scoring ability. My only worry is that if you take him out of cornerback who do you put in there? He's our best defender. Unless you throw Stapleton in at #2 and Barrett at #4.

Paddy Murphy is shocking, no excuses he just isnt within an asses roar of a county hurler

He's really slow. Just slow. You don't have to be blazingly fast at full forward but it's a fast game and how a KK defender didn't close him down for his point is puzzling. O' Shea must see something in him, he's gained two starts in two League games. League is a testing ground but when you've certified starters like Forde, McGrath, Callanan playing it's strange.

Fireball07 wrote: »

From the highlights, it looked like Cahill was playing wing-back? Huge fan of his, how did he go there?

He has been very good when taken out of his natural home at cornerback. Excellent talent. He's played in midfield during challenge matches and popped up with a couple of goals and points. He's an enormous asset of ours.

and Fennelly was on huge form, was Paudie Maher at centre-back again? He got destroyed there by Mick Fennelly last year.

I'm a big fan of Maher but he really needs to find some consistent form. He looked off the pace yesterday.

As I said, I'll watch it when I get home but at least Callanan and McGrath seemed to be in good form for ye're sakes... were kinda letdowns last year, and with the talent they have, you need them in form. Would persist with Jason Forde aswell, I think he's a class act.

It's Forde's second year with the seniors after splitting time with U21 last season and he's a talent. Needs to grow. Callanan and McGrath were letdowns yes but they've been this way for some time, Callanan to be fair to him has had a swathe of injuries and can't get form but he tends to drift in and out of games. McGrath has gotten his fair share of action and I don't know what the story with him is. He hasn't really blown the world away.

Woodlock at midfield again? Must admit I had written him off, but he seems to be doing well... and Brendan Maher just oozes class, so that's a good midfield partnership if both are on form. I've talked ye up this year, but I think the kind of attacking movement you showed in the first half is what O'Shea can bring and few defences can live with that.

Woodlock, didn't like him at first but he's industrious to a T and battled all over the field yesterday. Further agreement here about Maher. He's seriously talented.

evolving tipperary

When it comes to the big occasion Padraic Maher turns up. I've seen him have nightmares for Thurles at club level at full back...when it matters though...

ReacherCreature

I'd rather a player that puts in decent shifts in each game than just turning up for big games.

evolving tipperary

By big games I mean Championship - I don't think we can have any complaints with Maher's commitment and performance in championship. Who plays well day in - day out- League games and Championships? If anyone? The freakishly special only. Tommy Walsh? useless yesterday. Eoin Kelly has been struggling for the past few years...does not mean he hasn't has much credit as anyone played for Tipp. We're lucky to have Maher...

Cahill, Benny, Maher, O'Mahony, Lar - whatever chances we have for the AL you can write it off if anything happens to one of those - we simply have not got the replacements

I would add Curran to that - people go on about his pace - he's physical and ultra committed - leads by example - can be ruthless- we need him badly

Spirit of 67

County Senior Football Draw :

Group 1

Aherlow
Kilsheelan-Kilcash
Galtee Rovers
Fethard

Group 2

Clonmel Commercials
Arravale Rovers
Moyne-Templetuohy
Cahir
Clonmel Og

Group 3

Loughmore-Castleiney
Thomas MacDonaghs
Ardfinnan
JK Brackens
Ballyporeen

Group 4

Moyle Rovers
Eire Og Annacarty
Moycarkey-Borris
Killenaule

Alpha Dog 1

Why are tipperary in the leinster minor football league?

Spirit of 67

To get games , check out players etc . Played in it 2011 and lost all games , went on to win the All Ireland ! Cork , Clare and Limerick also took part this year !

Alpha Dog 1

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

Why are tipperary in the leinster minor football league?

No Munster equivalent so Leinster council made an exception. Good idea to enter it.

Alpha Dog 1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No Munster equivalent so Leinster council made an exception. Good idea to enter it.

Seems strange that the munster council couldn't organise a similar competition. They beat Louth tonight by 3 points.

The Lost Sheep

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

Why are tipperary in the leinster minor football league?

Why do you think?

To get more games, that are competitive, and decent standard before the Munster championship starts.

On Paddy Murphy. Slow is not word id use to describe him. Have played against him, not blisteringly quick but slow he aint

Red Crow

Finally got around to looking at the game on the TV and what an outrageous player Mikey Cahill is. From my view point in the stand he looked to be everywhere and he slowly moved up the pitch. What a class player.

Alpha Dog 1

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Why do you think?

To get more games, that are competitive, and decent standard before the Munster championship starts.

Obviously the more games the better, just found it strange that us being a munster team are playing in a leinster League.

Spirit of 67

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

Obviously the more games the better, just found it strange that us being a munster team are playing in a leinster League.

Roscrea do it in Rugby .

The Lost Sheep

Spirit of 67 wrote: »

Roscrea do it in Rugby .

By smilie face I assume you knew already Roscrea rugby grounds are in Leinster which is why they don't play in Munster comps

Spirit of 67

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

By smilie face I assume you knew already Roscrea rugby grounds are in Leinster which is why they don't play in Munster comps

The Map on their website has it being in Tipp , unless they managed to redraw the border !

Premier View

Great game, shame about the result. I dont beleive that anything has changed since last year. It was re-run of the League Final and the Qualifier match to be honest. We said after the league final, plenty of positives and we would beat them next time. What happened? Same thing next time, they were there for the taking, and we could not take them. Yesterdays loss (A 16 point turn around) was hard to take on many levels. They were really poor and gifted us a huge lead. We are always lauding our backs, boy did they have a horror show yesterday. Any team that scores 5-15 and loses, can only blame their back line. Wind or no wind, we had a winning platform. It is now getting to the stage where when Kilkenny want a feel good factor, they think of Tipperary. We have not only contributed to their legend, we have almost built it single handed. We handed them an All-Ireland in 2009,having outplayed them for seventy minutes. 2011 we played in bursts and should have buried them one and for all. Last year they had the feel good factor of another League title after we failed to build on a winning position. In last years qualifier, we had them on the rack, and let them escape with the sweetest victory ever.
For two teams whose skill levels are pretty much equal, that represents a shocking return. Can anyone tell me out of the last ten matches against KK, we have won. We have surely lost 5 out of the last six. It seems to be a case of waiting for Corbett, Kelly, et al to return. Lads those players are not going to make a difference. All-Ireland Final? Lads we are not even close. Cody took off Tommy Walsh at half time, no reputations matter there, only winning. Do you think we would do the same? He wont give new players a chance. Denis Maher got a few minutes and Heffernan, he was not going to gamble on youth. How are they ever going to develop with a few minutes here and there. We need to introduce a lot of new players, and what is he doing, re-hashing the old ones. Shane's Mc Grath should be no where near that panel, after his efforts last season. We have suffered enough with him.
He will be found out in the Championship. It was the same litany of mistakes. Players getting turned over in posession, stupid frees, and players taking the wrong option. Brendan Maher hit Fennelley a dig and gave our free away, from which they scored. Shane Mc Grath kicked a ball up in the air, and Kilkenny accepted the gift, for a goal. We had a man trying to solo out of the back line, turned over and the fifth goal followed. Same pattern as last year, would we make those mistakes against Laois or Offaly? No way. They are scared of Kilkenny and have shipped so many beatings now, that its not just hurling issues we have a host of psychological ones too. Kieran Mc Geeney will have to earn his corn now. Eamonn O,Shea was saying he was a born winner. I am open to correction but he dident win anything with Kildare of any note. I almost forgot his sole All-Ireland win, born winner for sure.
I can see him lighting the spark, to get us back to the promised land. I have to be honest and say, 0'Shea has had no real effect on either the playing style, or the playing panel. We are where we were with Declan Ryan, at least he never did qualifiers!

evolving tipperary

You make some excellent points. I don't know if I would be that pessimistic as I still like to hope we can turn it around. We do desperately need to find at least 2 - AT LEAST- hard men who can win ball, give it and take it, win ball and not take a backward step no matter what happens. Like the way Colin Fennelly rose to it last Sunday or Michael Fennelly last year. Like Conor Ryan does it for Clare. Whether Niall O'Meara, Denis Maher, (or Gearoid Ryan) can come right and give us that platform remains to be seen. But Kilkenny do seem to have our number as well as everybody else. I just hope the hard ground makes a difference in the summer on a bigger field and we can run them ragged. But they do seem to be finding the types of players we need to find...

Our transition does seem to be one of years rather this league...hopefully I'm wrong. Form is for the summer! I don't think we can point the finger at managers anymore...this bunch of players have had enough managers. Manager is a factor but it is these players too...ultimately it is the players.

Comordha

It was unfortuante that Shane McGrath made that mistake as I thought he was having a good game and have been impressed with him in the half-back line so far this year. Seems to have bulked up a bit and has his engine back.

Thought Woodlock did well too. Maybe Mickey Cahill should have been put on Fennelly after he started racking them up???

I think if Bubbles, Bonner Maher and maybe 1 other were brought on earlier we may have been able to close that game out but I suppose players need to be given some game time.

I think Bergin might need to be sent back to the back line somewhere though, what do you think? Pity really as I thought he could be Tipperary's missing link up front.

ReacherCreature

Premier_View, it might be worth your while to use some paragraphs. Just a wall of information there.

McGrath's kick looks awful now as it led to a goal but he was trying to clear it (it'd have went out for a 65 had he not) and it fell to an unmarked Colin Fennelly who side-stepped and rocketed the ball into the corner of the net. It was an exceptional goal and I can hardly blame McGrath who had three KK players around him for trying to get rid of the sliothar.

premierstone

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Premier_View, it might be worth your while to use some paragraphs. Just a wall of information there.

McGrath's kick looks awful now as it led to a goal but he was trying to clear it (it'd have went out for a 65 had he not) and it fell to an unmarked Colin Fennelly who side-stepped and rocketed the ball into the corner of the net. It was an exceptional goal and I can hardly blame McGrath who had three KK players around him for trying to get rid of the sliothar.

Agreed and has been elluded to McGrath had a fine game, he actually did very well to win that ball in the first instance a bigger concern for me would be that when he did clear it, obviously in hindsight he should have played it to the sideline, that even if Fennelly didnt win it the nearest payer to him was another KK player. The centre of our defense was non existent. I actually thought Shane was our best defender on Sunday.

Barrett showed some good things but is a little light and naive at times, Tom Stapelton is far too slow for intercounty hurling, Paddy Stapelton looked unfit and I have never seen him concede so many frees, Conor O'Brien and Paraic Maher were destroyed by their direct opponents and Mickey Cahill ended up in midfield.

premierstone

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Forde will be as good as if not better than Lar - given time. I'd put a lot of money on that

I would definitely take that bet tbh, 3 AI medals, Four All Stars and a hurler of the year award for Lar and he has a lot to offer yet.

Forde has bags of skill and a good eye for a score but he lacks pace and that will alwyas be a hindrance at intercounty level, his not too fond of mixing it either and thats a bad combination. Personally I dont think he will be on the starting 15 this year at all.