limerick city of sub culture

flutered

the post of chief exetutive of this board was never advertised, the appointment to the €120, 000 plus expenses job is an embarresment to the people of the city and beyond, a kick in the teeth to the many who had visions of applying and perhaps having an interview on their cv if they were unsecessfull, the chairman of the board of limerick city of culture is former mep and pd politician pat cox, the chief exec is none other than patricia ryan, who is she i hear you all clamouring she was a special adviser to another famous, or perhaps infamous ex pd mary harney while she was minister for health, she was proposed or perhaps i sshould say highly recomended by another newly appointed to be the chairman of limerick county and city manager con murray.

Marcus Halberstram

It has farce written all over it. Not allowed criticise it here though

jbkenn

flutered wrote: »

the post of chief exetutive of this board was never advertised, the appointment to the €120, 000 plus expenses job is an embarresment to the people of the city and beyond, a kick in the teeth to the many who had visions of applying and perhaps having an interview on their cv if they were unsecessfull, the chairman of the board of limerick city of culture is former mep and pd politician pat cox, the chief exec is none other than patricia ryan, who is she i hear you all clamouring she was a special adviser to another famous, or perhaps infamous ex pd mary harney while she was minister for health, she was proposed or perhaps i sshould say highly recomended by another newly appointed to be the chairman of limerick county and city manager con murray.

Thats not the only embarrassment flutered,
There is also the appointment of the bould Conns best man Dr. Pat Daly (a refugee from that other rest home for the bewildered Shannon Development) to some unspecified managerial position on €98,000 p.a.in the City Council, as you do.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/city-boss-appointed-best-man-to-plum-98k-position-29838340.html
According to the leader poor Conn is "furious" at the intrusion into his personal life,
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/business-news/limerick-ceo-conn-murray-furious-over-intrusion-1-5754611
pity about you Conn, bad enough we had to pay your predecessor Tom Mackey a lump sum of €311,488 (€271,466 after tax), and a pension of €73,422 per annum to fu@k off so we could give you the job.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/pension-payoff-of-310000-for-city-manager-of-nine-years-26827678.html
Perhaps Conn might also use the Christmas break to come up with a more plauable excuse for appointing two other Shannon Developement refugees Eoghan Prendergast and Aoife O'Shaughnessy to the also unadvertised Limerick City marketing job than the one trotted out by some official in the Limerick Post recently.

Silentcorner

flutered wrote: »

the post of chief exetutive of this board was never advertised, the appointment to the €120, 000 plus expenses job is an embarresment to the people of the city and beyond, a kick in the teeth to the many who had visions of applying and perhaps having an interview on their cv if they were unsecessfull, the chairman of the board of limerick city of culture is former mep and pd politician pat cox, the chief exec is none other than patricia ryan, who is she i hear you all clamouring she was a special adviser to another famous, or perhaps infamous ex pd mary harney while she was minister for health, she was proposed or perhaps i sshould say highly recomended by another newly appointed to be the chairman of limerick county and city manager con murray.

It is a shame that this had to happen in this fashion, it is how business is done in this country...for better or for worse.

I don't want to seem like I am defending the establishment here, but I learned a lesson this year, I had thought "The Gathering" would be a disaster, run by a similar political appointee, but from the Tourism numbers it was a resounding success...

With that in mind I reakon what happened was related to the late securing of funding, late because the budget was in October which is where this kind of funding is usually secured, therefore it left a very small window to appoint someone, you would need someone who can start straight away, no time for someone to serve notice for existing employment, in that instance I can understand why they would go with someone they know to be competent (as someone unknown to them would take longer to settle in) and available.

There are only a few politicians that this city has produced that have the calibre of Pat Cox, I would be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, I do understand how others mightn't be so generous.

I have never seen a CV where people would include details of failed interviews mind, had I have known I can do that I'll start applying to every CEO position that is advertised...I might just land a CFO position!!

The success or failure of this coming year will depend very little on who this person is (this person is charged with bringing projects in on target as far as I know, the purse is €6million)...the success or failure of this year will largely depend on Limerick people and how they support it.

flutered

op do you think the poor the disabled their carers will be enamoured when they see what cost went into getting it up and running, i was told last august 12 months to go home and live away the best i could and a home care packae would be arranged for me, they are the consultants words not mine, not a thing have i recieved only cutbacks, i am expected to support this, yeah ted

Marcus Halberstram

Limerick City of Culture artistic director Karl Wallace has quit. First casualty of last nights shambles?

https://twitter.com/AlanEnglish9/status/418444905015291904


Someone really needs to step in and save the entire City of Culture programme. This doesn't bode well for the year ahead at all

Insect Overlord

Weird choice of words in the thread title. Sub-cultures can be fascinating things!

Marcus Halberstram

The term subculture has negative connotations of inferiority. Maybe not as much today but certainly in the past.

Itsdacraic

Marcus Halberstram wrote: »

Limerick City of Culture artistic director Karl Wallace has quit. First casualty of last nights shambles?

https://twitter.com/AlanEnglish9/status/418444905015291904


Someone really needs to step in and save the entire City of Culture programme. This doesn't bode well for the year ahead at all

His departure has been speculated upon for a number of weeks.
http://www.limerickleader.ie/what-s-on/arts-entertainment/speculation-on-future-of-limerick-city-of-culture-director-karl-wallace-1-5759273

Marcus Halberstram

Itsdacraic wrote: »

His departure has been speculated upon for a number of weeks.
http://www.limerickleader.ie/what-s-on/arts-entertainment/speculation-on-future-of-limerick-city-of-culture-director-karl-wallace-1-5759273

I wonder will the group of people who threatened to walk away if he quit now follow suit. Will his resignation involve some form of compensation? It said he was getting legal consultation. This could hit the budget unexpectedly.

JD Dublin

flutered wrote: »

op do you think the poor the disabled their carers will be enamoured when they see what cost went into getting it up and running, i was told last august 12 months to go home and live away the best i could and a home care packae would be arranged for me, they are the consultants words not mine, not a thing have i recieved only cutbacks, i am expected to support this, yeah ted

To be fair you can't trot out the ''and all the sick children who don't get treatment'' argument against everything.

You can't get someone of good calibre to do a job at 2 or 3 months notice like managing the Limerick City of Culture at the drop of a hat.

I'd say it was a complete sh**storm for the last few months to get anything done. If you have organised anything more than a childrens birthday party or your brothers wedding you will know what I mean.

Mark my words though, if this had happenned in Galway or Cork it would certainly be brushed under the carpet. Not in Limerick, oh no, we have to wash our linen in public.

To prove this you only have to look at how Galway handled crytospiridium - they hushed it up for months for fear it would affect their tourism numbers.

Similarly Dublin crime figures ( indictible crimes per head of population per year ) are double that of Limerick, but Limerick is the crime blackspot?

The rest of the country is laughling their socks off at national headlines being made by some minor minion resigning. FFS would ye all cop on to what is being done to Limerick ( again ).

Greaney

Silentcorner wrote: »

.... therefore it left a very small window to appoint someone, you would need someone who can start straight away, no time for someone to serve notice for existing employment, in that instance I can understand why they would go with someone they know to be competent (as someone unknown to them would take longer to settle in) and available.

I have never seen a CV where people would include details of failed interviews mind, had I have known I can do that I'll start applying to every CEO position that is advertised...I might just land a CFO position!!

The success or failure of this coming year will depend very little on who this person is (this person is charged with bringing projects in on target as far as I know, the purse is €6million)...the success or failure of this year will largely depend on Limerick people and how they support it.

The Chief Excecutive Patricia Ryan has no experience whatsoever in the Arts or cultural management!! So let me get this right, we re-hire the bankers that got us into our Economic crisis because 'no one else had the experience', but one can manage a major arts program without a clue.


It shows you the esteem in which the arts is held, in this country
17 minutes ago · Like

JD Dublin

Greaney wrote: »

The Chief Excecutive Patricia Ryan has no experience whatsoever in the Arts or cultural management!! So let me get this right, we re-hire the bankers that got us into our Economic crisis because 'no one else had the experience', but one can manage a major arts program without a clue.


It shows you the esteem in which the arts is held, in this country
17 minutes ago · Like

Sometimes you have to take a leap. Do you know of any ex-directors of cultural programmes who were available to run this thing with 2-3 months notice?

My experience of event management is that well-meaning types who are involved in the arts and culture are not hard-faced enough to make tough decisions in the running of an event, whereas they are good enough to run their own theatre / venue / charity / whatever. Different folks for different gigs.

Patricia Ryan did not work as a banker AFAIK, or maybe I am missing the point of the reference to bankers.

Greaney

Yes, I think you did miss my point. I didn't say she was a banker. I was making the point that in the aftermath of the economic crisis we continued to employ those who had done a 'bad job' because they had experience. Why? Well, we deem experience important in matters of economics and banking. On the other hand, regarding the arts, experience is not considered important. Any experience whatsoever!!


There are a great number of people in Ireland who work in Arts admin who could have done this job, yes, even at short notice, if only it had been advertised.


We churn out hundreds of arts administrators every year.
https://www.google.ie/#q=arts+administration+courses+Ireland


Not only does Ireland have available people of such a calibre to do the Job, I believe Limerick does. Many people work in the Arts who are not artists, they work in Administration, marketing etc. but have an interest and understanding of the field, and with that, a respect to listen to ones team members to learn what was needed for the project. Karl Wallace and the others who resigned did so because their suggestions with regard to structures etc. were not listened to. Had there been someone with a knowledge of Arts at the helm, then they would have recognised that the basic technical suggestions made were important (staffing structures and educational outreach).

JD Dublin

Greaney wrote: »

Yes, I think you did miss my point. I didn't say she was a banker. I was making the point that in the aftermath of the economic crisis we continued to employ those who had done a 'bad job' because they had experience. Why? Well, we deem experience important in matters of economics and banking. On the other hand, regarding the arts, experience is not considered important. Any experience whatsoever!!


There are a great number of people in Ireland who work in Arts admin who could have done this job, yes, even at short notice, if only it had been advertised.


We churn out hundreds of arts administrators every year.
https://www.google.ie/#q=arts+administration+courses+Ireland


Not only does Ireland have available people of such a calibre to do the Job, I believe Limerick does. Many people work in the Arts who are not artists, they work in Administration, marketing etc. but have an interest and understanding of the field, and with that, a respect to listen to ones team members to learn what was needed for the project. Karl Wallace and the others who resigned did so because their suggestions with regard to structures etc. were not listened to. Had there been someone with a knowledge of Arts at the helm, then they would have recognised that the basic technical suggestions made were important (staffing structures and educational outreach).

Fair point about the bankers. Fair point about the arts administrators. Any available that had run big projects? Patricia Ryan has considerable experience at a high level.

So no I don't accept that someone of a high calibre can't switch fields and be sucessful in their new field of endeavour. Civic society is littered with examples so no need to rehash them here.

Am I right in saying that said Mr Wallace was running a campaign while still employed by the Culture project using the press as his mouthpiece? He was upset perhaps that he was not deferred to in some respect?

Pumpkinseeds

Limerick must have been the only city in the world to hold the New Years Eve fireworks display at 8pm. Surely the New Years Eve bit implies that fireworks are set off at midnight. Bit of a joke really, it doesn't bode well for the rest of the year.

jbkenn

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Limerick must have been the only city in the world to hold the New Years Eve fireworks display at 8pm. Surely the New Years Eve bit implies that fireworks are set off at midnight. Bit of a joke really, it doesn't bode well for the rest of the year.

I understand the fireworks display was @ 8.14 p.m. or 24 hour clock 20.14

Marcus Halberstram

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Limerick must have been the only city in the world to hold the New Years Eve fireworks display at 8pm. Surely the New Years Eve bit implies that fireworks are set off at midnight. Bit of a joke really, it doesn't bode well for the rest of the year.

There is a precedent here, they switched on the Christmas lights at 3pm in broad daylight. Another first I reckon. I wonder was the same event management company behind the two?

JD Dublin

Midnight mass at 7pm

New Years Eve fireworks at 8pm?

What will they think of next?

Lads you're all getting fierce picky about timekeeping.:):):)

My kids are all in bed by 12 so they'll never see fireworks at midnight.

Delighted to see some common sense prevail.

Silentcorner

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Limerick must have been the only city in the world to hold the New Years Eve fireworks display at 8pm. Surely the New Years Eve bit implies that fireworks are set off at midnight. Bit of a joke really, it doesn't bode well for the rest of the year.

It was for the benefit of all the children who were in town for the parade at 5.30...bit much expecting kids to hang around till midnight....but sure lets take a negative slant on it anyway...

Greaney

Well, @JD, that's an fair point about using the press as a mouthpeice, I don't live in Limerick but I knew this was stewing and I've kept an eye on it. I know someone involved and they're a fair and encouraging person, very capable. It's hugely significant that it was more than Wallace that 'walked'.

Personally I 'walked' from an organisation only last year. I couldn't be associated with it anymore. It was because those with whom I was working (who mistook responsibility and leadership for authority and power) hadn't a clue. Although I ran a few highly creative projects I'm very practical and sourced finances etc. I left on a good note, and have gone on to other things. Many other 'talented' individuals left for the same reason. The couple of people in responsible rolls ended up blowing the budget on a vain self promoting project and leaving the organisation broke.

Those responsible for the mess were doing a job they simply didn't understand and ignored the creative experienced people in the organisation. They felt their experience in other fields of business and law was enough! It wasn't. The Arts is an area that everyone's got an opinion on how it should be run; if, however, you have no technical experience or know how, you can really get a land.

Pumpkinseeds

Silentcorner wrote: »

It was for the benefit of all the children who were in town for the parade at 5.30...bit much expecting kids to hang around till midnight....but sure lets take a negative slant on it anyway...

Yet globally that doesn't appear to be a concern, thus New Year's eve fireworks are set off at midnight. It was a bit of a farce, be honest. If they tried that in any major city in the world there'd be uproar. I can't see Sidney or London rescheduling to 8ish pm so the children can stay up and watch the fireworks, what a joke. A bit too bloody Irish.

phog

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Limerick must have been the only city in the world to hold the New Years Eve fireworks display at 8pm. Surely the New Years Eve bit implies that fireworks are set off at midnight. Bit of a joke really, it doesn't bode well for the rest of the year.

They weren't fireworks for New Years Eve, they were fireworks to launch Limerick as the City of Culture 2014 and were timed at 20.14.

Marcus Halberstram

phog wrote: »

They weren't fireworks for New Years Eve, they were fireworks to launch Limerick as the City of Culture 2014 and were timed at 20.14.

Calling it the City of Culture NYE Festival didn't help in getting that message across though in fairness. The 20.14 thing seems to have gone right over the heads of a lot of people. Poor communication.

Pumpkinseeds

phog wrote: »

They weren't fireworks for New Years Eve, they were fireworks to launch Limerick as the City of Culture 2014 and were timed at 20.14.

How very twee:D

phog

Marcus Halberstram wrote: »

Calling it the City of Culture NYE Festival didn't help in getting that message across though in fairness. The 20.14 thing seems to have gone right over the heads of a lot of people. Poor communication.

Have a read here

http://limerickcityofculture.ie/content/2014-new-years-eve

In particular "The fireworks will commence at 20.14, announcing with a bang that Limerick is the City of Culture 2014."

Could this be any simpler.

BTW, the pageant was also held on New Years Eve, was everyone expecting that to start at 24.00 hrs.?

Carazy

phog wrote: »

They weren't fireworks for New Years Eve, they were fireworks to launch Limerick as the City of Culture 2014 and were timed at 20.14.

Launching it in 2013 at a few minutes past eight...

phog

Carazy wrote: »

Launching it in 2013 at a few minutes past eight...

Yes, the eve of the year of culture.

Have a read of the link I provided above.

Comhrá

phog wrote: »

Yes, the eve of the year of culture.

Have a read of the kink I provided above.

Is this thread going a bit funny now? :eek:

Silentcorner

Funny!!! I'm genuinely in shock...we are now having a go at a family oriented fireworks display???? Good Jesus....

mgbgt1978

@ silentcorner,
Em, I think he's referring to the use of the word 'kink' rather than 'link', when he asks if the thread is going a bit funny...........

D1stant

Silentcorner wrote: »

There are only a few politicians that this city has produced that have the calibre of Pat Cox, I would be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, I do understand how others mightn't be so generous.

I have never seen a CV where people would include details of failed interviews mind, had I have known I can do that I'll start applying to every CEO position that is advertised...I might just land a CFO position!!

If by the caliber of politicians thing you mean the ability so smoothly stick up 2 fingers, then you are probably right. His comments today that ah sure its probably for the best indicates the level of disrespect he has for the whole project and the people of the city in general.

Silentcorner

D1stant wrote: »

If by the caliber of politicians thing you mean the ability so smoothly stick up 2 fingers, then you are probably right. His comments today that ah sure its probably for the best indicates the level of disrespect he has for the whole project and the people of the city in general.

He was once President of the European Parliament, for whatever that is worth, I can't see too many other politicians in this city or country for that matter who could get to that level, I am not going to defend the man in any way shape or form...I merely stated that i was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt...as I am not involved in this sorry mess I have no idea where the blame lies, until that becomes clearer I'll continue to sit on the fence...

JD Dublin

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Yet globally that doesn't appear to be a concern, thus New Year's eve fireworks are set off at midnight. It was a bit of a farce, be honest. If they tried that in any major city in the world there'd be uproar. I can't see Sidney or London rescheduling to 8ish pm so the children can stay up and watch the fireworks, what a joke. A bit too bloody Irish.

I'm at a loss to explain why you'd begrudge small children a chance to see fireworks.

Marcus Halberstram

JD Dublin wrote: »

I'm at a loss to explain why you'd begrudge small children a chance to see fireworks.

I think you are missing the point. Nobody wants to begrudge children anything. Do you say that about Sydney, London, New York and every other major city that has fireworks at midnight on NYE? Of course not. The 20:14 fireworks signifying the launch of the City of Culture was confused by a lot of people as being fireworks to celebrate the new year, leaving a lot of people wondering why they weren't at midnight like, you know, the rest of the globe.

Can you see the confusion now?

JD Dublin

Marcus Halberstram wrote: »

I think you are missing the point. Nobody wants to begrudge children anything. Do you say that about Sydney, London, New York and every other major city that has fireworks at midnight on NYE? Of course not. The 20:14 fireworks signifying the launch of the City of Culture was confused by a lot of people as being fireworks to celebrate the new year, leaving a lot of people wondering why they weren't at midnight like, you know, the rest of the globe.

Can you see the confusion now?

Yes I can see the confusion - but whats the problem? Who gives a stuff what time it is held? I really see this a chance for the ''knockers'' ( quoting the late Jim Kemmy ) to be out having a moan about something or other. That's what I see TBH.

Silentcorner

Marcus Halberstram wrote: »

I think you are missing the point. Nobody wants to begrudge children anything. Do you say that about Sydney, London, New York and every other major city that has fireworks at midnight on NYE? Of course not. The 20:14 fireworks signifying the launch of the City of Culture was confused by a lot of people as being fireworks to celebrate the new year, leaving a lot of people wondering why they weren't at midnight like, you know, the rest of the globe.

Can you see the confusion now?

But there was fireworks at midnight!

This is actually hilarious...you don't think the city fathers pushed the fireworks up to 8.14 in an attempt to fool the citizens as to what time it actually was? I know we have our problems here but this isn't North Vietnam!!!!

I thought it was a nice touch to be fair, there was hundreds of kids around the city centre who got to see a fireworks display....nothing more sinister than that...

Marcus Halberstram

Silentcorner wrote: »

But there was fireworks at midnight!

This is actually hilarious...you don't think the city fathers pushed the fireworks up to 8.14 in an attempt to fool the citizens as to what time it actually was? I know we have our problems here but this isn't North Vietnam!!!!

I thought it was a nice touch to be fair, there was hundreds of kids around the city centre who got to see a fireworks display....nothing more sinister than that...

Stop putting words in my mouth. Thank you. I was merely clarifying why there was confusion. And lots of people having seen the first firework display thought that was it for the night.

JD Dublin

Marcus Halberstram wrote: »

Stop putting words in my mouth. Thank you. I was merely clarifying why there was confusion. And lots of people having seen the first firework display thought that was it for the night.

That's a fair point - who knew there was a second helping of fireworks? I didn't.

Marcus Halberstram

JD Dublin wrote: »

That's a fair point - who knew there was a second helping of fireworks? I didn't.

Neither did I and I checked the website and there is no mention of it. If people knew that there were two fireworks displays, one at 8:14 and again at midnight then they would hardly be asking why weren't the fireworks at 8:14 on at midnight instead. And this won't somebody think of the children line is just being trotted out to vilify people that are asking questions.

bigpink

Is Limerick a world or European city of culture?Someone told me its just Irish city of culture

JD Dublin

Marcus Halberstram wrote: »

Neither did I and I checked the website and there is no mention of it. If people knew that there were two fireworks displays, one at 8:14 and again at midnight then they would hardly be asking why weren't the fireworks at 8:14 on at midnight instead. And this won't somebody think of the children line is just being trotted out to vilify people that are asking questions.

My friend you have too much time on your hands. This thread has run its course on the subject of fireworks as far as I am concerned. Best of luck to all for 2014.

Marcus Halberstram

JD Dublin wrote: »

My friend you have too much time on your hands. This thread has run its course on the subject of fireworks as far as I am concerned. Best of luck to all for 2014.

Strange comment seen as you just commented on this yourself. My time and how I spend it is none of your business with all due respect.

Silentcorner

Marcus Halberstram wrote: »

Neither did I and I checked the website and there is no mention of it. If people knew that there were two fireworks displays, one at 8:14 and again at midnight then they would hardly be asking why weren't the fireworks at 8:14 on at midnight instead. And this won't somebody think of the children line is just being trotted out to vilify people that are asking questions.

Stop putting words in my mouth, this isn't a "please think of the children" line...it was a fireworks display for the benefit of the children...I didn't know about it either but someone pointed it out to me, my initial reaction wasn't "that's a joke" it was "that was nice" but I suppose that is the difference between likes of you and likes of me...

Marcus Halberstram

Silentcorner wrote: »

Stop putting words in my mouth, this isn't a "please think of the children" line...it was a fireworks display for the benefit of the children...I didn't know about it either but someone pointed it out to me, my initial reaction wasn't "that's a joke" it was "that was nice" but I suppose that is the difference between likes of you and likes of me...

Again, you are guilty of putting words in my mouth as you are determined to cause an argument here. Pumpkinseeds described it as a joke NOT ME.

RikkFlair

bigpink wrote: »

Is Limerick a world or European city of culture?Someone told me its just Irish city of culture

Just the Irish city of culture, first ever I believe.

bigpink

So a made up thing?and jobs for the boys

Insect Overlord

bigpink wrote: »

So a made up thing?and jobs for the boys

What makes the Irish City of Culture a "made up thing", in contrast to the European one?

bigpink

If European we would get more coverage and at the moment being an Irish one is a farce

regress

Silentcorner wrote: »

This is actually hilarious...you don't think the city fathers pushed the fireworks up to 8.14 in an attempt to fool the citizens as to what time it actually was? I know we have our problems here but this isn't North Vietnam!!!!

hundreds of kids around the city centre who got to see a fireworks display.......

In North Vietnam they had their fireworks at midnight. But that's probably because they don't care about the children. And wasn't launching the 2014 year of culture at 20:14 in 2013 a lovely touch.

Silentcorner

regress wrote: »

In North Vietnam they had their fireworks at midnight. But that's probably because they don't care about the children. And wasn't launching the 2014 year of culture at 20:14 in 2013 a lovely touch.

Well the official launch started at 5.30...the concert began at 8.30...I simply don't get how anyone can have a problem with the timing. Most NYs celebration begin earlier than 12 o'clock...if there hadn't been fireworks at 12 I'd say something...

I can see someone having an issue with communication, but to be fair it's not a major issue...it wasn't like nobody knew...and if you missed it there was another display at 12 as per usual...