Love/Hate (v2) [** Spoilers **]

DazMarz

DazMarz wrote: »

Wasn't he in hiding for most of Season 2?

Think he was meant to have emigrated to Manchester as he told Nidge in the bar before he acquainted himself to Danno and Git for the first time (actor probably unavailable at the shooting of the second series)

bazermc

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Think he was meant to have emigrated to Manchester as he told Nidge in the bar before he acquainted himself to Danno and Git for the first time (actor probably unavailable at the shooting of the second series)

Yes thanks. I remember now. Cheers.

bazermc

DazMarz wrote: »

Wasn't he in hiding for most of Season 2?

And most of season 3

Promo for the new season released.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk3Ey8-FlGc

Not really a spoiler but I've hidden this anyway

It would seem from the ad that Fran has grown some sort of a conscience which is a bit of a turn-up for the books. Are we going to see a deeper side to him? Quite frankly i didnt expect that although i suspect its something to do with his late wife Linda

Talk of twelve episodes this season and said to be starting next month.

Looks like Nidgey is out in Spain

deise08

Roll on the new series!!!!

bazermc

Plot summary for Season 5 here

http://rteonenewseason2014.rte.ie/drama/#mg_ld_227

Warning SPOILER ALERT

bazermc

bazermc wrote: »

Plot summary for Season 5 here

http://rteonenewseason2014.rte.ie/drama/#mg_ld_227

Warning SPOILER ALERT

Will be avoiding. Cheers mate. What the Fúck are RTE at trying to give the game away? :mad: Im afraid to look at a paper in a shop since the mirrors little revelation some weeks back.

Cant wait for season 5. Have a feeling it will be a big one. Meant to be 12 weeks long i believe. Could be BS.

Who is this guy? Haven't seen him in anything before but he looks an intense character. Id say he is based on Christy Kinahan going by the proposed storyline.

This bellend from an old Mcdonalds ad and the rubbish that was the Centre is in next season's series along with Paul Ronan (father of Saoirse) and i think i heard 'Teeth' Duffy is also returning along with BF O'Byrne.

bazermc

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Will be avoiding. Cheers mate. What the Fúck are RTE at trying to give the game away? :mad: Im afraid to look at a paper in a shop since the mirrors little revelation some weeks back.

Cant wait for season 5. Have a feeling it will be a big one. Meant to be 12 weeks long i believe. Could be BS.

Just the 6 episodes this season according to the rte website. Says 6 *60.

kryogen

Well thats a pain in the hole then, the series needs to be longer then 6 episodes to breath

kryogen

kryogen wrote: »

Well thats a pain in the hole then, the series needs to be longer then 6 episodes to breath

I think what they meant by twelve episodes was the fact that series four was the front six and series five is going the back six. Typical RTÉ. Overpay the shít presenters like Tubs and no investment in domestic programmes such as this.

BuilderPlumber

I am really looking forward to season 5 and it looks set to be very good from the clip I saw. I will avoid all tabloid papers the next while if possible and it was awful last year how they predicted everything that happened in season 4.

I wonder how things will be for all the main characters. Last time we met Nidge, he deliberately got himself into a police cell and then self harmed. Meanwhile, Fran was disillusioned with Nidge and felt he was cutting him out of the deal and he had murdered the dentist. Tommy was in a coma and Siobhan was cooperating with the police. The police had lost their chance to get Nidge due to Tommy's poor health.

If season 3 and 4 was all about the relations between Nidge and the IRA, season 5 seems to be set to be about what happens between Nidge and Fran. The big secret about Linda is about to come out at some stage. Will the IRA feature again I wonder? Tony? Lizzie? I hope they do have some role. With regard to some of the new characters, this Pauley seems to be a major obstacle for Nidge as does his boss. Clearly, Nidge still owes the IRA and owes this drug dealer too. With regard to the police, they will be more determined than ever to get Nidge and Siobhan could prove to be Nidge's worst enemy in the end who knows.

BuilderPlumber

Deleted User wrote: »

I think what they meant by twelve episodes was the fact that series four was the front six and series five is going the back six. Typical RTÉ. Overpay the shít presenters like Tubs and no investment in domestic programmes such as this.

I think that is what was meant too. I'd love a 12 episode season from September up to Christmas. It would pass the winter lovely.

Unfortunately, RTE do not spend their money wisely. Granted, Love/Hate would be very expensive to make but I'm sure if they had paid their presenters less they could make more episodes.

Tubridy's show is jaded and overlong and I hated the concept of The Frontline with Pat Kenny too. A depressing show basically made just to give Kenny a job post Late Late Show. The poor quality of these 2 chatshows is secondary it would seem. But programmes like this are cheap to make compared with Love/Hate. But that's policy: look after all these presenters (Gaybo gets them too but at least his programmes have been better than Tubridy's and Kenny's recent efforts). But with Kenny gone, couldn't his salary be used for 6 more episodes of love hate ??

BuilderPlumber

I wonder what personas Nidge will take on this season. Last time around, Nidge was very depressed and paranoid a lot of the time and his mind was all over the place. Series 4 went out of its way to show Nidge had a conscience too (examples include he talking Fran out of killing Tommy, he shedding tears at his mother's funeral). He clearly had all the guilt over what happened to Darren (indirect) and Tommy (direct) on his conscience and then the whole Linda (Fran's wife) thing comes back after Nidge had sorted out the IRA threat, saved Tommy and buried his mother. Nidge's conscience was explored in series 3 as well with he breaking down and crying to Trish after being forced to kill Darren (Nidge's plan to have Darren killed failed but Lizzie got him instead).

From what I can see, I think series 5 will show Fran's conscience. Fran up until now has been portrayed differently in the 3 seasons he was in. In season 2, he starts out as a low level player who is not afraid to use his dogs to extract confessions from those who fell foul of him. He is largely a dark character and has big plans for himself and his wife (Barbados and all this). The injury and death of his wife happen but we are not concentrating much on it as the story moved on to other issues. In series 3, Fran was a much more stable, lighthearted character and the much needed fixer for Nidge's problems with the IRA. We see him as a good friend to Nidge. Coolaboola! In series 4, we see the darker Fran again with his personal war against Noelie and his threats to kill Tommy and his killing of the dentist (1 of only 2 killings personally by Fran: like Nidge and most of the main characters, Fran does not kill that many people himself). Cracks in his friendship with Nidge formed.

Fran could sink into depression and I'd say the Linda issue will come back to him and haunt him. In many ways, he must have known Nidge was someway involved? But he said in season 2 he was only interested in getting John Boy to Nidge (assuming someone else (Darren?) threw the pipebomb). With Darren handy to throw a pipebomb (at the IRA), I'm sure Nidge would have told Fran Darren did the Linda job? But if Nidge was to kill the pipebomb supplier, Fran would know the truth?

Nidge will emerge from his depressive state I'd say and take down some of his minor enemies early on like the pipebomber. Showdowns with the other drug dealer from Spain, the Gardai, and ultimately with Fran are all possible events. I am unsure if the IRA will be in it or not this time. I have a feeling Nidge will get into very deep water and as with other series, he will have multiple enemies to contend with as the season moves on. Only this time, some of them could be his former best friends Fran and Tommy as well as his niece Siobhan.

Skullface McGubbin

When the TV ads for series 5 hit our screens, They'll probably show some of the best bits as they did with series 4 (like Fran's scene when being questioned by the gards). And the Irish press will go out of their way to reveal as much plot details as they can. It's like they don't know the meaning of the word spoiler.

lufties

Skullface McGubbin wrote: »

When the TV ads for series 5 hit our screens, They'll probably show some of the best bits as they did with series 4 (like Fran's scene when being questioned by the gards). And the Irish press will go out of their way to reveal as much plot details as they can. It's like they don't know the meaning of the word spoiler.

Really can't wait for S5 and how the characters develop..S4 was quite poor, I was waiting for a major climax or plot development the whole way through. They need to ramp up the pace a bit, I really enjoyed S3, the best storyline IMO. The new characters look dangerous.

I reckon the lawyer Dave might be one of the characters to go.

hatrickpatrick

It would appear that Tommy

isn't in anything like a prominent position in this season - he appears nowhere in the trailer, isn't mentioned in the synopsis except to say that he's back in a coma and Siobhan is out for revenge, which we knew already - yet Killian Scott has talked about filming season 5 so we know he must be in it in some capacity... Hope he's not just an unconscious "prop" for the whole season, he's one of my favorite characters

lufties

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It would appear that Tommy

isn't in anything like a prominent position in this season - he appears nowhere in the trailer, isn't mentioned in the synopsis except to say that he's back in a coma and Siobhan is out for revenge, which we knew already - yet Killian Scott has talked about filming season 5 so we know he must be in it in some capacity... Hope he's not just an unconscious "prop" for the whole season, he's one of my favorite characters

Tommy will probably pass on, no point in speculating though.. I wonder will RTE act the bollix and make me have tofind the new episodes on dodgy websites

BuilderPlumber

lufties wrote: »

Tommy will probably pass on, no point in speculating though.. I wonder will RTE act the bollix and make me have tofind the new episodes on dodgy websites

It is hard to know what they'll do with Tommy. He will undoubtedly not be left in a coma the whole season: he will either die or come to.

Of course, if he does live and starts remembering things, all hell could break loose. Nidge would have no option but to kill him perhaps framing him for Linda's murder to cover his tracks with Fran. There was a hint that he was starting to remember things before he fell down in season 4's episode 6. He said Nidge had Darren killed and Nidge had to try and convince him it was the IRA. I felt Tommy suddenly started remembering things and I'm sure this theme will be explored deeper.

He more or less ended season 4 as he had season 3 so I think they'll either have him make a full recovery and become a threat to Nidge or else they will kill him off from complications due to his injury leaving Siobhan even more determined to bring Nidge down. Either way, it appears bad news for Nidge.

lufties

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

It is hard to know what they'll do with Tommy. He will undoubtedly not be left in a coma the whole season: he will either die or come to.

Of course, if he does live and starts remembering things, all hell could break loose. Nidge would have no option but to kill him perhaps framing him for Linda's murder to cover his tracks with Fran. There was a hint that he was starting to remember things before he fell down in season 4's episode 6. He said Nidge had Darren killed and Nidge had to try and convince him it was the IRA. I felt Tommy suddenly started remembering things and I'm sure this theme will be explored deeper.

He more or less ended season 4 as he had season 3 so I think they'll either have him make a full recovery and become a threat to Nidge or else they will kill him off from complications due to his injury leaving Siobhan even more determined to bring Nidge down. Either way, it appears bad news for Nidge.

I can't see tommy's character being anyway entertaining at this stage but who knows, they won't drag out his coma/storyline for 3 seasons, no chance, I reckon his character is doomed. Season 5 will be focused on the new characters and a new story.

Stuart Carolan etc will obviously be watching the reaction to season 4 and adjusting accordingly, in other words, making it better.

At this stage forget about Tommy I'd say.

deise08

But I'm in love with Tommy.

lufties

deise08 wrote: »

But I'm in love with Tommy.

he's ****ed in all fairness

Tommy was very funny in Calvary. Film itself wasn't so good though.

bazermc

deise08 wrote: »

But I'm in love with Tommy.

Join the queue. Siobhan, mad bitch, Debbie, Mary. I am sure there was more.

BuilderPlumber

I would feel that Tommy is at the end of the road too. He is a great character and often across the 4 seasons he was in (he is along with Nidge the only character to be in every episode of it so far) was often shown as the kind hearted one.

But his options are now limited. As said, two things can happen to him:

1. He dies of complications due to his injury. Clearly, the legacy of his death would then become a major storyline with Siobhan perhaps becoming Nidge's greatest threat.

2. Tommy survives his injury and makes a full or at least stable recovery: if he does, then he is in serious trouble. He could remember things and Siobhan is there to fill him in about Nidge. Fran could also inform him if he falls out with Nidge. He could remember the argument about Dano's wife with Nidge and Nidge going for him with Fran's golf club weapon. Then, anything is possible: he could join with Nidge's enemies, become friends with Fran against Nidge (Tommy may know Nidge threw the pipebomb? We know Darren was told but Tommy could know too?). Nidge could strike preemptively on Tommy too and pin the pipebombing on him. What if Tommy knew about Nidge throwing the pipebomb and told Fran and then Nidge later kills Tommy and goes to Fran to say Tommy threw the pipebomb unknown to him that Tommy had already told Fran!!

Whatever way, alive Tommy or dead Tommy will pose serious situations for Nidge. If Nidge had to kill Tommy to save his skin, Nidge is hardly going to feel good about it either and a whole sense of guilt akin to the Darren situation could throw Nidge off the game too despite he grappling with other problems posed by the various people he has tied himself up with.

I'd imagine a lot of the series 2, 3 and 4 issues will be put to bed relatively early. So, Tommy's fate will be resolved early on: he either will be dead, working with the cops (detective Moynihan clearly looks on Tommy a lot differently than how he looks on the others) or joining up with Nidge's enemies.

bazermc

Doesnt Fran still have the bone from Git that he kept. Fran showed it to Dean, just before Nidge gave Tommy the heading

That has got to be brought back up again in this season, perhaps Fran uses it against Nidge

bazermc

bazermc wrote: »

Doesnt Fran still have the bone from Git that he kept. Fran showed it to Dean, just before Nidge gave Tommy the heading

That has got brought back up again in this season, perhaps Fran uses it against Nidge

Or Dean uses it against Fran?

hatrickpatrick

Just watched seasons 1-3, weird experience having started with Season 4 due to my mates' insistence last year on making an occasion of it on Sundays. Really interesting for instance to see Debbie's massive transformation over the 4 seasons, from living with the big man to dying on her own with nobody even really caring about it.

Couple of things bugging me, most of which have slipped my mind but will come back, but chiefly:
Why did Nidge set out to kill Patrick in season 4? Patrick made it abundantly clear several times that like Wayne, he simply follows the money and couldn't give a f*ck about anyone. Nidge repeatedly reminded him about the pipe bomb and his answer was always that he didn't care what his stuff was used for. So why start a war with him? It strikes me that after having been attacked by Nidge in a failed assassination attempt, where Patrick may have been indifferent to the whole thing before, he certainly won't be now.

Strikes me as a case of Nidge actually creating a gigantic problem for himself where there was none initially.

Another more general point, and maybe this is just coming from the point of view of someone having watched the seasons in a dodgy order (S4 first and then S1-3) - does it strike anyone else that the whole tone of the series shifted pretty dramatically as time went on? I was quite taken aback when starting S1 to see the lads all basically chilling very casually in John Boy's apartment, when throughout all of S4 there's a constant tension and air of menace. I'm not sure whether to describe it as seeing the lads graduate from small fish to big fish or simply that all the actors look a little younger in S1, but it struck me that each successive season was a lot darker than the last, with S4 having barely any cheeriness at all between the characters. This isn't in any way a criticism - I maintain the minority view that S4 was absolutely fantastic - but it's interesting that the element of mates having the craic pretty much evaporates completely by S4 when it was a central aspect of S1.

If that trend is to continue, I would predict that S5 will contain some of the most bitter hostilities and betrayals yet. It almost feels like following Darren's death, there aren't any "nice" characters left in terms of being friendly with eachother. Siobán in particular seemed very, very alone throughout S4, and with Fran seemingly descending further into the realm of completely unhinged psychopath, I feel S5 is going to be very, very bleak. Again not in a bad way, just an observation.

BuilderPlumber

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Just watched seasons 1-3, weird experience having started with Season 4 due to my mates' insistence last year on making an occasion of it on Sundays. Really interesting for instance to see Debbie's massive transformation over the 4 seasons, from living with the big man to dying on her own with nobody even really caring about it.

Couple of things bugging me, most of which have slipped my mind but will come back, but chiefly:
Why did Nidge set out to kill Patrick in season 4? Patrick made it abundantly clear several times that like Wayne, he simply follows the money and couldn't give a f*ck about anyone. Nidge repeatedly reminded him about the pipe bomb and his answer was always that he didn't care what his stuff was used for. So why start a war with him? It strikes me that after having been attacked by Nidge in a failed assassination attempt, where Patrick may have been indifferent to the whole thing before, he certainly won't be now.

Strikes me as a case of Nidge actually creating a gigantic problem for himself where there was none initially.

Another more general point, and maybe this is just coming from the point of view of someone having watched the seasons in a dodgy order (S4 first and then S1-3) - does it strike anyone else that the whole tone of the series shifted pretty dramatically as time went on? I was quite taken aback when starting S1 to see the lads all basically chilling very casually in John Boy's apartment, when throughout all of S4 there's a constant tension and air of menace. I'm not sure whether to describe it as seeing the lads graduate from small fish to big fish or simply that all the actors look a little younger in S1, but it struck me that each successive season was a lot darker than the last, with S4 having barely any cheeriness at all between the characters. This isn't in any way a criticism - I maintain the minority view that S4 was absolutely fantastic - but it's interesting that the element of mates having the craic pretty much evaporates completely by S4 when it was a central aspect of S1.

If that trend is to continue, I would predict that S5 will contain some of the most bitter hostilities and betrayals yet. It almost feels like following Darren's death, there aren't any "nice" characters left in terms of being friendly with eachother. Siobán in particular seemed very, very alone throughout S4, and with Fran seemingly descending further into the realm of completely unhinged psychopath, I feel S5 is going to be very, very bleak. Again not in a bad way, just an observation.

I think a lot changed since series 1 with regard to especially where the characters have gone. Darren was in two minds then, Nidge was the happy go lucky 2nd in command and most of the worries were with John Boy and Hughie. Nidge was the star of the show though I feel the first 2 series were more about Darren and the name of the series reflective of Darren's feeling of love and hatred for Rosie and Hughie (and John Boy) respectively.

Series 2 did become darker with Darren's progression into becoming a hitman and ultimately taking out his enemies Stumpy (he feels guilty) and John Boy (he is happy). Nidge's conscience is revealed after his reluctance to throw the pipebomb. Nidge sees John Boy as no longer useful and wants to be the main man himself: he sets out to take his place. The Luke subplot is interesting too. We see a glimpse of Nidge's ruthless streak when he kills Luke and also contemplates killing Darren. Fran is introduced as an ambitious up and coming player who has a violent but pragmatic side.

Series 3 shifted the entire focus again to Nidge's dealings with the IRA. Fran is back and in this, he is a much more lighthearted character than in season 2. Series 3 is very violent with IRA man Git's rape of Siobhan and Tommy's/Darren's bloody killing of him afterwards setting the tone. The story quickly follows with Nidge, Fran, Tommy and Darren trying to cover up what happened with Git before Dano finds out. Dano is introduced overseeing a kneecapping of Ado. As the series progresses, Nidge like John Boy before him gets paranoid and Dano proves a very scary adversary. In a fit of rage, Nidge hits Tommy with Fran's golf club weapon. By the end, Nidge decides to try and buy off the IRA and meets and does a deal with Tony who agrees as long as Darren is sacrificed. Darren is killed in the end, but Nidge's plan fails. It is Lizzie who kills him instead. Also, Darren became more brutal in his role as hitman. The killing of the man and his girlfriend came so easily to him: season 1 or even 2 Darren would not have acted as coldly. By now, Darren didn't care: no Rosie or Mary around to ask him to question his conscience.

Series 4 continued on from series 3 with Nidge feeling guilty and paranoid. Dano still wants Nidge dead and is disobeying Tony. Tommy is in poor health and Nidge's friendship with Fran is being tested. The subplot with the dentist's first off reluctance and then willingness to get involved with Nidge and the gardai's desire to get Nidge also add to things. Ultimately, Nidge survives: Tony tires of Dano's obsession with killing Nidge and has Dano kneecapped and left for dead; the gardai fail to get Nidge due to Tommy's turn for the worst and detective Moynihan's decision to save Tommy rather than get Nidge; Fran kills the dentist and Nidge has Wayne clipped; Lizzie loses the rag with a driver and is in prison for serious assault. the Fran v Noelie storyline also was good and I hope we get more in series 5.

Series 5 sees Nidge free of threats from Dano, but he is aware of how close the gardai got to him and the new threats that may come from Fran, Tommy, Siobhan and the new drug dealer he borrowed from. Lizzie may or may not be back but if she is the IRA threat remains. As usual, by episode 6, Nidge will have multiple challenges to his survival. Some of the series will delve into subplots too and hopefully this Chunk Rogers prowler and his motives will be revealed and we see the Noelie Hughes storyline in some way brought into the Fran and Nidge relationship.

I too liked series 4 a lot. Watching in reverse order can indeed be difficult as a lot of series 4 is based on things that began in series 2 and 3 like the pipebomber, the IRA story and Tommy's situation.