Love/Hate (v2) [** Spoilers **]

Happyman42

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Didn't the writer say he often writes scenes around the songs he likes? It may have worked well on a few occasions but he seems to have got carried away with himself with that scene.

Absolutely, it was like a stand alone music video, made no sense in the context of the story.

lufties

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Didn't the writer say he often writes scenes around the songs he likes? It may have worked well on a few occasions but he seems to have got carried away with himself with that scene.

i watched episode 1 and 2 of season 4 last night and I found them much better the second time around, S4 will be appreciated at the end of season 5 IMO. The pace being so slow is what makes it a bit disappointing though.

AnonoBoy

Happyman42 wrote: »

Absolutely, it was like a stand alone music video, made no sense in the context of the story.

I agree with you (I know! SHOCK!).

When the scene started and that demonic look on Nidge's face when he walked into the station I thought it was going to be a brilliant scene. But then........ wha?

Didn't enjoy it and thought it was a poor ending to the season.

BuilderPlumber

lufties wrote: »

i watched episode 1 and 2 of season 4 last night and I found them much better the second time around, S4 will be appreciated at the end of season 5 IMO. The pace being so slow is what makes it a bit disappointing though.

I think S4 and S5 are clearly meant to be taken together as a continuation. And S4 was a continuation of a lot of events from S3 too. I think S1 and S2 were also a continuation and S2 ended up concluding all the major storylines there. S3 started off the IRA storyline and all its direct and indirect consequences (this story and its offshoots such as Tommy's situation dominated S4 too) while it killed off Darren and all his stories.

S4 focused more on the cops of course and finished off some of the IRA stories. As a standalone, one is left wondering of course some of these issues:

-What was the Noelie Hughes issue about?
-Why was the 'Luke mark 2' prowler pestering the cop and his family?

The plot for S5 could go in a variety of ways. We assume because of the tabloids Nidge goes to Spain? I'd say Fran would become the Irish gang leader and perhaps Elmo will also have ambitions too. Nidge could play one off against the other from Spain? Fran will have to deal with Noelie (who Fran's other potential enemies could use for their purposes too). Tommy will either make a full recovery (hinted at that he will) or dies but either way, Nidge being the culprit is definitely going to come out. Nidge going to Spain could be for varied reasons: the cops, Fran/Tommy/Siobhan, other threats? The 'Luke mark 2' guy has to feature too I'm sure. And the pipe bomb traveller: his best option would be to try and get Fran and Nidge to eliminate each other. Although, it will be Nidge who eliminates the traveller somehow or maybe Fran?

Happyman42

Happyman42 wrote: »

No, you think of any reason you can to rationalise it.

There is no rational reason why Nidge would do what he did at the end other than 'the song was cool and had to used'.
There was no mention of Nidge having an antagonism to the Gardai other than the usual cops and robbers one. Certainly not one that would draw that kind of display.
There is also plenty of mention of Nidge's own feelings of vunerability throughout the series but suddenly after a drug importation goes tits up (with a consequent loss of huge money and pride and what should be increased 'paranoia' remember the famous paranoia you were going on about? :rolleyes:), he is suddenly 'invincible'.
Give us a break here Tipp and engage your critical faculties for once. It won't hurt anything but your burgeoning vanity, promise.

I actually gave a pretty good explanation as to why Nidge would feel that way. However you seem to have missed it just to have an argument with someone. In a thread about Love/Hate.

Both of you; turn off your computers. You've both had enough internet for today, methinks.

Happyman42 wrote: »

We struggle because we don't defend it, that isn't our job as viewers.
You cannot say that in the space of one scene his 'paranoia' disappears to be replaced with feelings of 'invincibility'

He has nothing to feel paranoid about any more. He was paranoid about the IRA having a hit out on him - this was shown to be not true and the person who was behind it was sorted. He was paranoid about the Gardaí- it was shown that his paranoia was justified and, once again, he gets to walk away. He has faced the majority of what made him paranoid and won.

Happyman42

Deleted User wrote: »

He has nothing to feel paranoid about any more. He was paranoid about the IRA having a hit out on him - this was shown to be not true and the person who was behind it was sorted. He was paranoid about the Gardaí- it was shown that his paranoia was justified and, once again, he gets to walk away. He has faced the majority of what made him paranoid and won.

You make no mention of Fran or Tommy (nobody knows what is going to happen there) and we haven't been told what has become of Lizzie, to all intents and purposes she is still out there and because she is renegade to the IRA operaton, still a threat, she was in his house with a machine gun ffs. Would you be sleeping soundly?
As to the gardai, Nidge has just discovered that his entire operation has been under surveillance and info he tried to thought was secret was available to the gardai (eg. the shipment movements that only he and the go between and the driver knew was on the move) and suddenly he is invincible....seriously?

Happyman42

Happyman42 wrote: »

You make no mention of Fran or Tommy (nobody knows what is going to happen there) and we haven't been told what has become of Lizzie, to all intents and purposes she is still out there and because she is renegade to the IRA operaton, still a threat, she was in his house with a machine gun ffs. Would you be sleeping soundly?
As to the gardai, Nidge has just discovered that his entire operation has been under surveillance and info he tried to thought was secret was available to the gardai (eg. the shipment movements that only he and the go between and the driver knew was on the move) and suddenly he is invincible....seriously?

Lizzie is behind bars, but Nidge doesn't know that. Didn't Nidge get in contact with the IRA after this happened? So for all he knows, it is all taken care of. In fact, that's what the head-IRA guy said. The only other lose end after that was the kid who was with her, and he was taken care of.

Fran - does he know he has to be paranoid about Fran?

As for Tommy, he feels responsible for what happened. Plus would he have known Tommy had survived? Last Nidge saw, there was blood pumping out his nose and ears and he was pretty much out of it.

And for the Gardaí - yes, he discovered all of this. But even with the surveillance, even with all the Gardaí had, Nidge still walks away free.

I've made my points - I can tell that you and other posters here are far too aggressive in discussing what is ultimately a TV show, so I can't really see the point in responding any more to something that won't be resolved.

Happyman42

Deleted User wrote: »

Lizzie is behind bars, but Nidge doesn't know that. Didn't Nidge get in contact with the IRA after this happened? So for all he knows, it is all taken care of. In fact, that's what the head-IRA guy said. The only other lose end after that was the kid who was with her, and he was taken care of. But the IRA told him it was a renegade action and for all he knows Lizzie is likely to be on bail and roaming about with the machine gun.

Fran - does he know he has to be paranoid about Fran? Fran had to be talked out of clipping Tommy, he bitterly attacked him about the shipment and has warned him several times, only a fool would be unconcerned about a possible threat from Fran, or writers with a laisse faire attitude to credible characterisation.

As for Tommy, he feels responsible for what happened. Plus would he have known Tommy had survived? Last Nidge saw, there was blood pumping out his nose and ears and he was pretty much out of it. He was about to drop Tommy in it on his own if things went pearshaped, he felt so 'responsible'. He needs an end to that and it hasn't happened yet.

And for the Gardaí - yes, he discovered all of this. But even with the surveillance, even with all the Gardaí had, Nidge still walks away free. By the skin of his teeth, it's implausible to suggest anything other than sheer relief, which we seen with Fran. Invincibility is a huge stretch imo and is why that final scene was ridiculous.

I've made my points - I can tell that you and other posters here are far too aggressive in discussing what is ultimately a TV show, so I can't really see the point in responding any more to something that won't be resolved.

The only 'aggression' you see from me and others is towards the people who think this is an intelligence issue and not a discussion about a tv programme. I suggest they get a life and a subscription to AH.

Lady Chatterton

Mod Note:

Guys, ye need to get back to discussing the show instead having a go at each other. If ye are not going to be civil, I'll issue bans.

BuilderPlumber

I have a feeling we will see a lot more of Lizzie and also Noelie Hughes too. Issues do not have to be totally resolved in a season (that's why there is a season 5 afterall).

The whole thing with Nidge thinking he is invincible is building up nicely to a climax. The fact that Nidge survived the John Boy v Fran feud, Dano/Lizzie and now the cops trap as well as being able to conceal his secrets that could turn Fran and Tommy against him show he is a survivor who could be complacent. Still, though, he knows there are constant threats and I'm pretty sure he is aware of these but it is the ones he least expects that could undo him. Some of the characters we thought we saw written out of the series only to see them emerge later include the pipe bomb traveller (appeared in a minor role in a series 2 episode), corrupt cop Martin (not seen in season 3 and last season in the John Boy/early Nidge days of season 2), and most notably of all Fran (one of the show's leading favourites: seemingly 'written out' in season 2 by going to prison).

I don't know how season 5 will pan out but it will have themes of Nidge v Fran (with Nidge trying to keep his secret quiet) and the traveller will be all important here. Tommy will either live (hinted at very much) or die but either way, Tommy and/or Siobhan will be seeking revenge against Nidge. On top of this, Nidge could come up against new enemies and even 'reliables' like Elmo and Ado could prove to move against him. The cops will not be giving up either.

My guess/wish is the series will perhaps see a few showdowns between some of the factions (Nidge v the travellers; Fran v Noelie) where some of the storylines are resolved. Nidge could then escape others (perhaps, an alliance of Fran, Tommy, Elmo and Ado - with maybe Tony using Fran instead of Nidge?) and head to Spain to lie low. End of series. Setting up the continuity Love/Hate movie featuring a Nidge v Fran showdown.

Jason Todd

Was watching a few old clips and noticed something. Near the end of Season 2 (I think) after John Boy decides to cut Fran out of the big gear deal, John Boy tells Nidge to "**** off and don't be annoying me."

Then near the end of S3 after Nidge beats Tommy, Nidge tells Darren to "**** off and don't be annoying me."

And at the end of S4 when real-life Garda says to Moynihan, "I thought you gave up the fags" (or whatever he says), Moyhnihan says "**** off and don't be annoying me"!

Wonder was it intentional, or just in keeping with the way everyone talks in L/H.

Left Back on the Bench

Jason Todd wrote: »

Was watching a few old clips and noticed something. Near the end of Season 2 (I think) after John Boy decides to cut Fran out of the big gear deal, John Boy tells Nidge to "**** off and don't be annoying me."

Then near the end of S3 after Nidge beats Tommy, Nidge tells Darren to "**** off and don't be annoying me."

And at the end of S4 when real-life Garda says to Moynihan, "I thought you gave up the fags" (or whatever he says), Moyhnihan says "**** off and don't be annoying me"!

Wonder was it intentional, or just in keeping with the way everyone talks in L/H.

noticed this too. nidge also says it to aido when he's going into Wayne in the flat.was wondering why moynihan would say that specific line too

AnonoBoy

Jason Todd wrote: »

Was watching a few old clips and noticed something. Near the end of Season 2 (I think) after John Boy decides to cut Fran out of the big gear deal, John Boy tells Nidge to "**** off and don't be annoying me."

Then near the end of S3 after Nidge beats Tommy, Nidge tells Darren to "**** off and don't be annoying me."

And at the end of S4 when real-life Garda says to Moynihan, "I thought you gave up the fags" (or whatever he says), Moyhnihan says "**** off and don't be annoying me"!

Wonder was it intentional, or just in keeping with the way everyone talks in L/H.

Left Back on the Bench wrote: »

noticed this too. nidge also says it to aido when he's going into Wayne in the flat.was wondering why moynihan would say that specific line too

I would think it's deliberate - showing that all of these guys as leaders are similar in some ways regardless of which side of the law they're on.

Kenny Logins

Jason Todd wrote: »

Was watching a few old clips and noticed something. Near the end of Season 2 (I think) after John Boy decides to cut Fran out of the big gear deal, John Boy tells Nidge to "**** off and don't be annoying me."

Then near the end of S3 after Nidge beats Tommy, Nidge tells Darren to "**** off and don't be annoying me."

And at the end of S4 when real-life Garda says to Moynihan, "I thought you gave up the fags" (or whatever he says), Moyhnihan says "**** off and don't be annoying me"!

Wonder was it intentional, or just in keeping with the way everyone talks in L/H.

**** off and don't be annoying me. :pac:

BuilderPlumber

Deleted User wrote: »

Lizzie is behind bars, but Nidge doesn't know that. Didn't Nidge get in contact with the IRA after this happened? So for all he knows, it is all taken care of. In fact, that's what the head-IRA guy said. The only other lose end after that was the kid who was with her, and he was taken care of.

Fran - does he know he has to be paranoid about Fran?

As for Tommy, he feels responsible for what happened. Plus would he have known Tommy had survived? Last Nidge saw, there was blood pumping out his nose and ears and he was pretty much out of it.

I think there is potential for so many episodes and films from these storylines. According to most sources, the intention seems to be for a series 5 being the last series and then follow it up with maybe one but maybe 2 or 3 feature films (hopefully, continuation and not remakes).

I guess the IRA issue seems resolved. Nidge keeps bringing in goods for Tony and Tony will help out Nidge in return on occasion as was the case with Dano. But, the Lizzie issue remains. In the real world, republican feuds have dominated our news and could there develop a faction sympathetic to Lizzie and Dano going up against Tony and co? Of course, you could have the IRA split used by rival gangsters (i.e. should Fran and Nidge fall out).

For now, though, Fran and Nidge remain friends and allies albeit not very trusting ones. Both have their doubts about the other but both also see for now that the other's usefulness outweighs the negatives. Here are a few important issues:

1. Fran of course knows all too well about the pipebombing of Linda's and his house which maimed Linda and ultimately caused her depression. Fran was furious about this. But who does he blame for it? He probably assumes Nidge didn't do it as he rarely does this type of thing personally, he knows John Boy gave the order, and probably wrongly blames either Darren or Tommy (because hits were their trad role with John Boy's gang and Darren's always).
2. Yet, Fran worked alongside Nidge, Tommy and Darren in series 3. I have to watch again next week and see Fran's reaction to the latter two (those he more than likely blames).
3. In series 4, animosity between brain damaged Tommy and Fran was a major theme. Fran has good reason not to trust Tommy: Tommy attempted a hit on Fran in series 2 and probably is then too his chief suspect for the Linda incident too. Darren is dead. However, Fran and Tommy will end up friends and allies against a common enemy should Tommy live.
4. Fran was a very genuine friend to Nidge in series 3 especially episode 6. Fran did not have to do any of the things he was asked to do by Nidge and there was no gain on Fran's part a lot of the time.

Overall, I think this echoes the very name of the programme: Nidge and Fran obviously were good friends and worked well together in series 3. Series 4 showed their relationship crack but not 100% either. Series 5 will clear all doubts in both's minds about their mistrust of each other when all the secrets come out. It will be one hell of a coola boola ride.

lufties

Deleted User wrote: »

Lizzie is behind bars, but Nidge doesn't know that. Didn't Nidge get in contact with the IRA after this happened? So for all he knows, it is all taken care of. In fact, that's what the head-IRA guy said. The only other lose end after that was the kid who was with her, and he was taken care of.

Fran - does he know he has to be paranoid about Fran?

As for Tommy, he feels responsible for what happened. Plus would he have known Tommy had survived? Last Nidge saw, there was blood pumping out his nose and ears and he was pretty much out of it.

And for the Gardaí - yes, he discovered all of this. But even with the surveillance, even with all the Gardaí had, Nidge still walks away free.

I've made my points - I can tell that you and other posters here are far too aggressive in discussing what is ultimately a TV show, so I can't really see the point in responding any more to something that won't be resolved.

I wonder what is supposed to be happening to tommy from a medical point of view, is it a slow haemoragging of his brain due to the beating? If it is, then he should have been back in hospital for most of Series 4, from a realistic point of view of course.

mr_edge_to_you

Just watching series 4/episode 3 again. It was an amazing piece of television. Suspense, drama and tension were unreal when watching at the time.

deise08

Tommy was in Waterford yesterday. Boss came back off break and said he saw him but wouldn't let me take a break to go up and check him out why tell me and not let me go up that's the cruellest thing in the world. spoke to the bar manager tonight where he was and yep. It was definitely him

Gadgetman496

deise08 wrote: »

Tommy was in Waterford yesterday. Boss came back off break and said he saw him but wouldn't let me take a break to go up and check him out why tell me and not let me go up that's the cruellest thing in the world. spoke to the bar manager tonight where he was and yep. It was definitely him

He might be able to arrange for your boss to be clipped

deise08

deise08 wrote: »

Tommy was in Waterford yesterday. Boss came back off break and said he saw him but wouldn't let me take a break to go up and check him out why tell me and not let me go up that's the cruellest thing in the world. spoke to the bar manager tonight where he was and yep. It was definitely him

Funnily enough Robert Sheehan (Darren) was in Billy Byrne's in Kilkenny last night. At a birthday party id imagine as there was a place sectioned off out the back and he wasnt seen after going in the door

AnonoBoy

Deleted User wrote: »

Funnily enough Robert Sheehan (Darren) was in Billy Byrne's in Kilkenny last night. At a birthday party id imagine as there was a place sectioned off out the back and he wasnt seen after going in the door

He was probably down for the Subtitle Film Festival.

deise08

Hope ye all ran out to get yer love have Christmas hats. I've mine already coola boola ,:)

Merkin

Binged on the Season 4 DVD boxset at the weekend. I absolutely loved it, I think the show goes from strength to strength although I thought the ending of Nidge going baloobas in the cell was wayyy too self conscious, a little egocentric of the writers and not in keeping with the show. However it's not a major gripe, I think L/H is the best thing ever made for Irish TV, just a shame that we have to wait so long for Season 5!

BuilderPlumber

Merkin wrote: »

Binged on the Season 4 DVD boxset at the weekend. I absolutely loved it, I think the show goes from strength to strength although I thought the ending of Nidge going baloobas in the cell was wayyy too self conscious, a little egocentric of the writers and not in keeping with the show. However it's not a major gripe, I think L/H is the best thing ever made for Irish TV, just a shame that we have to wait so long for Season 5!

I am at present watching all four series bit by bit. Onto series 2 now and episode 5 where John Boy got killed. It is interesting how John Boy was killed off earlyish and how no one expected it. Also, interestingly how Nidge and Darren organised John Boy's death. Nidge met Fran as well in this episode and then Fran of course went to prison. But, we are not told that when Fran and Nidge met, that Fran was in on the act to kill John Boy too (I suspect he was and it was Nidge's way to cancel out his killing of Linda). Some interesting observations that relate to series 4 and 5:

-Fran was very very angry about what John Boy did to Linda (he clearly states he holds John Boy responsible although Nidge did it on JB's orders).
-Fran wants compensation from John Boy for Linda's death and is prepared to do a deal. He says this to Nidge, so I guess it is an option Nidge could use if his secret about killing Linda gets out next season! Of course, he was successful in arranging this kind of deal with Tony on two occasions.
-Martin the corrupt cop played a minor role in series 2 and 4. In both series, he seems to be regarded by the gang leaders (JB and Nidge) as useless. He seems in both to be in over his head and reluctant. Was it the gang have something on him or is it he initially was too fond of the backhanders? I hope he features in series 5 and we find out more about him. The main detective (Moynihan) in series 4 clearly stated that his father I think would be very disappointed in him.
-Nidge shows no signs of turning against John Boy at any time in the series but we know he ultimately was Fran's biggest ally against John Boy in the end. Series 3 and 4 saw a Nidge/Fran alliance that teetered on the brink of breaking down in series 4 but didn't as of yet.
-Series 2 sort of wrapped up theme 1 of Love/Hate which was the killing of Darren's brother and Darren's uneasy alliance with people associated with the man who did this act. Ultimately, Darren never liked John Boy and resented him for protecting Hughie. Other themes' seeds were planted: the era of King Nidge, the Fran/Nidge alliance and Nidge's darkest secret (pipebombing Fran and Linda's house and injuring Linda).
-Series 3 began the second major theme - Nidge's relations with the IRA. This ended (or so it seems) with series 4 episode 4 with the apparent death of Dano. Also, the Tommy situation.
Series 4 revived the themes of Nidge's secrets that he does not want Fran to know as well as continuing other themes from series 3 (Tommy, the IRA and so on).

Series 4 resolved the IRA business with Nidge and Tony meeting and doing a deal. Nidge is safe as long as he cuts Tony in on everything he does. Will the story continue with another twist or is it resolved is anyone's guess. Nidge clearly escaped the guns of the IRA with Tony and the guns of the IRA being his most essential ally in the end. It turned out Dano was riff raff the organisation did not need.

But, what about the other issues? Nidge also escaped the cops for now. Unlike Tony, he cannot do deals with them and I'm sure detective Moynihan will be more determined than ever next time around to nail Nidge. He also got away with the Tommy issue for now but is on very thin ice here. Will Tommy survive, make a full recovery and remember everything or will he die? However, Siobhan knows already that Nidge hit Tommy and is doing a deal with detective Moynihan, who is her biggest ally against a common enemy. Furthermore, Nidge does not know this. A huge threat for sure. And then there is Fran: he could find out about Linda (Nidge could give him compo money as demanded by Fran to Nidge to say to JB) and it would be up to Fran then what to do. The traveller of course is also a very visible threat and could arrange a hit on Nidge when he least expects it.

Keith Duffy's character will be interesting. There is a hint, akin to the dentist and the corrupt cop, that this gym owner is another who is going in deep over his head (there is a hint given his place could get raided and he ends up in deep shyt with Nidge) and is too greedy. Also, Noelie Hughes: what will he end up doing (my guess is teaming up with Nidge should Fran and Nidge fall out). And the 'Luke Mark 2' prowler who the cops beat up? Careful here that this stalker is not given the exact same story as 'Luke Mark 1' but an interesting side story could develop for this character.

loveBBhate

I'll give it a while before I watch Season 1-4 again, probably closer to the 5th season as I've done 1-3 twice already.

But more to the point, I was watching Veronica Guerin recently and look who I spotted looking a bit worse for wear

"We just say to some bird like you, gimme your money or I'll inject ya with AIDS"

"Do either of youse wanna have sex with me? I'm not expensive"

Poor aul Elmo

kitten_k

Had to laugh there. Apparently John Gilligan's 2 kids are called Darren and Treacy (Spelt that way too)

loveBBhate

Confirmed today that series 5 of Love/Hate will be 12 episodes long, twice as long as the 4th season.

http://www.joe.ie/entertainment/television/series-5-of-lovehate-will-be-twice-as-long-as-series-4/

lufties

loveBBhate wrote: »

Confirmed today that series 5 of Love/Hate will be 12 episodes long, twice as long as the 4th season.

http://www.joe.ie/entertainment/television/series-5-of-lovehate-will-be-twice-as-long-as-series-4/

Hmmm..Court cases and jail? not sure how that will be received, season 4 was a disappointment over all imo. Hope S5 will be an improvement.

.jacksparrow.

lufties wrote: »

Hmmm..Court cases and jail? not sure how that will be received, season 4 was a disappointment over all imo. Hope S5 will be an improvement.

Obviously last series so needs to tie up loads of stories.