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Numbers up Gerry

1…457910…35

Comments

  • #182
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,430 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    I guess I'm the only one who couldn't give the tiniest of shites about McConville or what happened to her.


  • #183
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    D1stant wrote: »
    Poll added

    (sorry for the typo)

    And a shitty one at that.

    Where's the 'I don't know' option?


  • #184
    Wattle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Wattle


    No
    My name is URL wrote: »
    I guess I'm the only one who couldn't give the tiniest of shites about McConville or what happened to her.

    You don't give a sh1te that a mother of 10 was kidnapped shot in the head and buried secretly for over 20 years? How classy of you.


  • #185
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    golfball37 wrote: »
    I believe he did know personally but had it been Michael Collins faced with an informer it would have yeilded the same result. The accusations about Adams surfaced really from Brendan Hughes' testimony, in that testominy he also says that the victim was warned previously and was subsequently in possession of a British radio device. I'm always amazed how his testimony about Adams is taken as gospel but his assertions regarding the victim are just ignored.

    Incidentally when are RTE/BBC going to do an expose on Dublin/Monaghan. 33 innocent people killed and our current taoiseach was part of the government that has questions to answer on the whole episode? or are we only interested now in 40 year old killings that SF/IRA are involved in?

    I raised this earlier and in a thoroughly unexpected twist the usual suspects opted to completely ignore it.
    Turns out the truth is only the truth when it suits you.

    Personally, I'm the exact same as everyone else in this thread in that, whether they're prepared to admit it or not, I have no idea if Adams was involved in her death.
    I do recognise however, that the man is not an idiot. If he admits to involvement in the IRA he faces two years in jail. His supporters wont be particularly bothered by this revelation while those who hate him will still hate him just as much except cries of "I cant respect him because he doesnt even have the balls to admit he was in the IRA" will be replaced with "Ha! I knew it." It's a lose/lose so why, if indeed he was in the IRA, would he bother admitting it? To satisfy some foaming-at-the-mouth anti-republicans?
    The man is an astute and experienced politician who negotiated peace with unionists and brits and led his party to its greatest electoral resurgence since 1918. Frankly, the day he does do something stupid like admit any alleged IRA membership is the day he's lost his marbles and needs to step down.


  • #186
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Carlos Roca wrote: »
    And a shitty one at that.

    Where's the 'I don't know' option?

    You mean the one that pretty much everyone who isnt Gerry Adams would have to tick?
    Sure why would we need that?


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  • #187
    Jester252
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    What a known IRA member with a dislike for leadership of Sinn Fine says on a tape is not solid evidence to assume that Gerry was involved in the IRA or the murder. Innocent until prove guilty.


  • #188
    Seaneh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Sounds like Gerry might have a lot to lose as well.

    The difference being he seems willing to that risk by pushing for the commission were as the British Government would rather bury their heads in the sand and hide behind bullSh*t to keep their own arses covered.


  • #189
    D1stant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭D1stant


    No
    Carlos Roca wrote: »
    And a shitty one at that.

    Where's the 'I don't know' option?

    Its in the same place as the "I don't like the question" option


  • #190
    Specialun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,068 ✭✭✭Specialun


    Seaneh wrote: »
    The difference being he seems willing to that risk by pushing for the commission were as the British Government would rather bury their heads in the sand and hide behind bullSh*t to keep their own arses covered.

    He well knows that its a complete non runner and plays off that


  • #191
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    Turns out the truth is only the truth when it suits you.

    I bet you Hughes and Price knew more than every single person on this thread but isn't it funny how their statements are dismissed out of hand.

    So I guess you're right with your "when it suits". :)


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  • #192
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    No
    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    I raised this earlier and in a thoroughly unexpected twist the usual suspects opted to completely ignore it.
    Turns out the truth is only the truth when it suits you.

    Personally, I'm the exact same as everyone else in this thread in that, whether they're prepared to admit it or not, I have no idea if Adams was involved in her death.
    I do recognise however, that the man is not an idiot. If he admits to involvement in the IRA he faces two years in jail. His supporters wont be particularly bothered by this revelation while those who hate him will still hate him just as much except cries of "I cant respect him because he doesnt even have the balls to admit he was in the IRA" will be replaced with "Ha! I knew it." It's a lose/lose so why, if indeed he was in the IRA, would he bother admitting it? To satisfy some foaming-at-the-mouth anti-republicans?
    The man is an astute and experienced politician who negotiated peace with unionists and brits and led his party to its greatest electoral resurgence since 1918. Frankly, the day he does do something stupid like admit any alleged IRA membership is the day he's lost his marbles and needs to step down.

    As much as I despise the IRA I have to agree that without Adams at the helm (politically) this island would I fear still be in the grips of terrorism and fear on both sides. The man has to be respected for his political tenacity if nothing else.


  • #193
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    No
    Jester252 wrote: »
    What a known IRA member with a dislike for leadership of Sinn Fine says on a tape is not solid evidence to assume that Gerry was involved in the IRA or the murder. Innocent until prove guilty.

    Would you say the same about the bloody Sunday soldiers?


  • #194
    Tramps Like Us
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Tramps Like Us


    awec wrote: »
    I bet you Hughes and Price knew more than every single person on this thread but isn't it funny how their statements are dismissed out of hand.

    So I guess you're right with your "when it suits". :)

    What, by people like you when they said that McConville was a tout?


  • #195
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Tramps Like Us wrote: »
    What, by people like you when they said that McConville was a tout?

    And so we're descending into realms of whataboutery. This isn't a thread to discuss whether or not you felt Jean McConville deserved to be murdered and then her body hidden for many years.

    This is a thread about whether or not Gerry Adams knew about it, or even ordered it. Two high profile members of the Provisional IRA have claimed that he did. Strange indeed.


  • #196
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Seaneh wrote: »
    The difference being he seems willing to that risk by pushing for the commission were as the British Government would rather bury their heads in the sand and hide behind bullSh*t to keep their own arses covered.

    As others said, he's an adept politician, he knows there's little chance the Government will agree to that and that suits him fine. He's in politics over 40 years so he stands to lose most from a commission as he's still involved in politics, nearly all the big players in both Governments are gone now.

    There's a hell of a lot of people playing "when it suits" on this thread and it isn't on one side! He's a good politician so economical with the truth when it suits him, as the sex abuse case against his brother showed.

    Politicians regularly come in for criticism and speculation on this site so I don't see why when something comes up about Adams, we get cries of poor Gerry is getting singled out.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #197
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,430 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Wattle wrote: »
    You don't give a sh1te that a mother of 10 was kidnapped shot in the head and buried secretly for over 20 years? How classy of you.

    No not really. And save for the possibility that Adams the bogeyman is involved and gives you and others something to bleat on about; I doubt you care much about her either.


  • #198
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    My name is URL wrote: »
    No not really. And save for the possibility that Adams the bogeyman is involved and gives you and others something to bleat on about; I doubt you care much about her either.

    That's crazy logic to be honest - though typical of the republican response when their dirty deeds once again go under the spotlight.

    Persecution complex. Poor Gerry.


  • #199
    [-0-]
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭[-0-]


    awec wrote: »
    And so we're descending into realms of whataboutery. This isn't a thread to discuss whether or not you felt Jean McConville deserved to be murdered and then her body hidden for many years.

    This is a thread about whether or not Gerry Adams knew about it, or even ordered it. Two high profile members of the Provisional IRA have claimed that he did. Strange indeed.

    So it's a thread about hearsay. Good to know.

    I'd love to know how many times you have said whataboutery on boards. I'm guessing it's in the triple figures.


  • #200
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    awec wrote: »
    That's crazy logic to be honest - though typical of the republican response when their dirty deeds once again go under the spotlight.

    Persecution complex. Poor Gerry.

    They obviously don't care about her if they wanna discover who ordered her murder.


  • #201
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    [-0-] wrote: »
    So it's a thread about hearsay. Good to know.

    I'd love to know how many times you have said whataboutery on boards. I'm guessing it's in the triple figures.

    I didn't see you make a fuss about the "hearsay" of McConville being a tout? Was that bit of "hearsay" ok?

    It's a thread about whether or not Gerry Adams knew, or was involved in the murder of Jean McConville. There's no point trying to dismiss it at hearsay or some sort of crusade against Adams just because that's convenient.

    The Disappeared were among the most unsavoury and high profile events of the troubles. Until all the bodies are returned to their loved ones I don't think the issue will be put to bed. The questions will be raised time and time again. Someone knows where they are.

    P.S. did a search of "whataboutery" posts by me. 3. Three.


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  • #202
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Ahmad Hundreds Rocket wrote: »
    They obviously don't care about her if they wanna discover who ordered her murder.

    Not sure whether this is sarcasm or not...


  • #203
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,955 ✭✭✭delthedriver


    No
    No smoke without fire ??????????


  • #204
    Mark Twain
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 121 ✭✭Mark Twain


    I see the shinnerbots and the usual polyester-clad protestors are out in force to muddy the waters, make a load of noise, and do everything in their power to draw away from Adams' murky past.


  • #205
    D1stant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭D1stant


    No
    Mark Twain wrote: »
    I see the shinnerbots and the usual polyester-clad protestors are out in force to muddy the waters, make a load of noise, and do everything in their power to draw away from Adams' murky past.

    Like it


  • #206
    Tramps Like Us
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Tramps Like Us


    awec wrote: »
    And so we're descending into realms of whataboutery. This isn't a thread to discuss whether or not you felt Jean McConville deserved to be murdered and then her body hidden for many years.

    This is a thread about whether or not Gerry Adams knew about it, or even ordered it. Two high profile members of the Provisional IRA have claimed that he did. Strange indeed.

    Its not whataboutery, Its about whether or not they(Price and Hughes) are believable. I never said anyone deserved anything.

    Do you believe them when he said that she was a tout, if not how can you believe them, and indeed entirely base the accusation, when they said that Adams ordered it? Its a fair question.


  • #207
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Tramps Like Us wrote: »
    Its not whataboutery, Its about whether or not they(Price and Hughes) are believable. I never said anyone deserved anything.

    Do you believe them when he said that she was a tout, if not how can you believe them, and indeed entirely base the accusation, when they said that Adams ordered it? Its a fair question.

    Personally I'd have to believe the IRA murdered her for some reason so I'd be willing to accept that.

    The main issue isn't really what she may or may not have done though, it's how much Adams knew and if he was fully aware of the details, what did he do about it? People might think it isn't that important and time has moved on but obviously that isn't the case for the family involved.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #208
    D1stant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭D1stant


    No
    on Matt Cooper now


  • #209
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,210 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    No
    Tramps Like Us wrote: »
    Its not whataboutery, Its about whether or not they(Price and Hughes) are believable. I never said anyone deserved anything.

    Do you believe them when he said that she was a tout, if not how can you believe them, and indeed entirely base the accusation, when they said that Adams ordered it? Its a fair question.

    I believe them when they say she was a tout (though, personally I don't believe this warrants an execution - but that's a separate discussion entirely). I also believe them when they say Adams was involved. Both are technically hearsay, but I believe both statements.

    Do I think Adams will ever be convicted of anything? No. Nor do I think it's worth continual pursuing of any conviction - it would cost a lot and we would get nothing in the end.

    What I am saying is that these questions will continue to be raised until all of the bodies are returned to their loved ones, and perhaps even beyond that. I reject the idea that it is a crusade against Adams to try and tarnish his name. I think this is an issue that will follow Adams for the rest of his life.

    They were among the most unsavoury, and high profile incidents in the troubles and they are always going to attract a lot of attention given that they still are not all found. There will always be the question of "who done it?", especially because the Provisional IRA liked to view themselves as morally superior when it came to their military actions.


  • #210
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    From what I know of her case she was warned a couple of times. If she continued after that point you'd have to wonder if the unfortunate woman was even able to understood the seriousness of the situation she was in.

    Having said that, if she was an informer, I think they could have exiled her so that her kids could have had their Mother and been kept together - those poor kids.


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  • #211
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    K-9 wrote: »
    Personally I'd have to believe the IRA murdered her for some reason so I'd be willing to accept that.

    The main issue isn't really what she may or may not have done though, it's how much Adams knew and if he was fully aware of the details, what did he do about it? People might think it isn't that important and time has moved on but obviously that isn't the case for the family involved.

    Loads of families have had to move on, never knowing the truth. Why are some families, like the McConville's and Jerry McCabe's, more important though.

    There will never be any truth here, I doubt anyone can present evidence to categorically confirm it one way or another.


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