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M21 - Limerick to Rathkeale/Foynes [advance works to commence shortly]

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    #392
    Middle Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Middle Man


    Limerick74 wrote: »
    Limerick Councillors just passed the variation to the County Development Plan which supports the scheme. A big hurdle overcome.
    It's Cork v Limerick in the TII Road Building Championship - Cork has a big lead with 28 M points on the board against Limerick's 21. Cork however has not scored lately and Limerick is catching up fast. Can Limerick come from so far behind and do it? Will the M21 be built before the M28 or will Cork start playing like a team again?

    My bet is on Limerick!!!


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    #393
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Middle Man wrote: »
    It's Cork v Limerick in the TII Road Building Championship - Cork has a big lead with 28 M points on the board against Limerick's 21. Cork however has not scored lately and Limerick is catching up fast. Can Limerick come from so far behind and do it? Will the M21 be built before the M28 or will Cork start playing like a team again?

    My bet is on Limerick!!!

    I hope you're right.

    I could happily live with never seeing Adare at 10km/h ever again.


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    #394
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Limerick74 wrote: »
    Limerick Councillors just passed the variation to the County Development Plan which supports the scheme. A big hurdle overcome.

    Any word on when this is to be submitted for planning?


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    #395
    Limerick74
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Limerick74


    https://www.live95fm.ie/news/cllr-says-ancient-ring-forts-shouldn-t-stop-road-p/

    No comment required


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    #396
    Mc Love
    Registered Users Posts: 14,015 ✭✭✭✭Mc Love


    He's a fool at some of the stuff he comes out with


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    #397
    Vilnian
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Vilnian


    Wonder how much he cared about them ring forts before this project was announced...


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    #398
    oleras
    Registered Users Posts: 2,721 ✭✭✭oleras


    Vilnian wrote: »
    Wonder how much he cared about them ring forts before this project was announced...

    Did you even listen to the 30second clip ? Unless i am mistaken, "rip um up " is his ,correct, attitude.


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    #399
    Aontachtoir
    Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    Limerick74 wrote: »
    https://www.live95fm.ie/news/cllr-says-ancient-ring-forts-shouldn-t-stop-road-p/

    No comment required
    I don't see what the problem is. He wants construction to go ahead regardless of the presence of the ring forts.


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    #400
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Tender gone out today for archaelogical geophysical surveys along the route

    https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase.asp?PID=127572

    Fingers crossed for movement on this soon.


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    #401
    Vilnian
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Vilnian


    oleras wrote: »
    Did you even listen to the 30second clip ? Unless i am mistaken, "rip um up " is his ,correct, attitude.

    Oops, I've slightly misunderstood that, he seemed like speaking in a bit of an objective way (against this project)


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    #402
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    According to this article in the Limerick Leader about the county development plane being changed, the project will go to ABP in September.


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    #403
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    According to this article in the Limerick Leader about the county development plane being changed, the project will go to ABP in September.
    That's painfully slow. It won't likely start until early 2022 if that's the case.


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    #404
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Scheme website has been updated to include drawings of a detailed design of the planned route: www.foyneslimerick.ie

    The mainline from Patrickswell to Rathkeale will be motorway (M21). The scheme now ends at a roundabout in Rathkeale, which will likely see congestion at peak times (will we ever learn?)


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    #405
    medoc
    Registered Users Posts: 967 ✭✭✭medoc


    marno21 wrote: »
    Scheme website has been updated to include drawings of a detailed design of the planned route: www.foyneslimerick.ie

    The mainline from Patrickswell to Rathkeale will be motorway (M21). The scheme now ends at a roundabout in Rathkeale, which will likely see congestion at peak times (will we ever learn?)


    Good to see part of it as motorway. Will provision be left for a free flow continuation of the M20 towards Cork as part of this project? Or will that be left till the M20 scheme starts?


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    #406
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    medoc wrote: »
    Good to see part of it as motorway. Will provision be left for a free flow continuation of the M20 towards Cork as part of this project? Or will that be left till the M20 scheme starts?

    Nope it won't as this will be gone to ABP before the M20 route is selected. This will just involve a widening of the existing N21 for about 2km west of the N20 junctions with no modifications to the junction. I'd imagine the old N21 from Patrickswell will be given a facelift as it's now an alternative route


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    #407
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I agree with ending it on a roundabout.... not a good idea running a 120kmh motorway into a standard 100kmh single carriageway road. No-one slows down and you end up with utter carnage, like the junction for Jack Whites before the M11 gap was filled. 120kmh off the motorway, round the corner, down a hill and straight into emerging traffic from a T junction.


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    #408
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,547 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    I agree with ending it on a roundabout.... not a good idea running a 120kmh motorway into a standard 100kmh single carriageway road. No-one slows down and you end up with utter carnage, like the junction for Jack Whites before the M11 gap was filled. 120kmh off the motorway, round the corner, down a hill and straight into emerging traffic from a T junction.

    The Ballincollig bypass ends with a reduction to 100 kph and it is definitely not an accident black spot.


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    #409
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    The Ballincollig bypass ends with a reduction to 100 kph and it is definitely not an accident black spot.

    As does the current N21, which this scheme will replace. I've never seen an accident there.
    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    I agree with ending it on a roundabout.... not a good idea running a 120kmh motorway into a standard 100kmh single carriageway road. No-one slows down and you end up with utter carnage, like the junction for Jack Whites before the M11 gap was filled. 120kmh off the motorway, round the corner, down a hill and straight into emerging traffic from a T junction.

    I'd much rather it end into a 100km/h single carriageway to cram as much traffic into Newcastlewest as quick as possible so it might wake someone up and get planning on the N21 Abbeyfeale-Adare scheme. Especially the waffledragon of a Minister in that constituency who constantly rambles on about this scheme as if he's building it himself, meanwhile it has been under-resourced for several years now.

    The plan in the NDP is two half baked roundabout ridden relief roads for Newcastlewest and Abbeyfeale. Because that policy worked out extremely well in the past (Castlebar, Mallow, Mitchelstown, Cahir, Cork City, Clonmel, Dungarvan, Killarney).


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    #410
    Limerick74
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Limerick74


    marno21 wrote: »
    As does the current N21, which this scheme will replace. I've never seen an accident there.”

    Not a fair comparison as the 100kph section is throttled down to narrow single and then into the Lantern Lodge Roundabout. This is usually where the queue into Adare starts. If Rathkeale Junction was grade separated then cars would continue on at high speed through the myriad of t-junctions west of Rathkeale. The Rathkeale Junction can easily be upgraded to a grade separated junction if and when the next section is developed.


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    #411
    pajoguy
    Registered Users Posts: 791 ✭✭✭pajoguy


    And there are plans for 2 sets of traffic lights in Abbeyfeale. Not sure has it been passed by the councillors yet. Madness.


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    #412
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    pajoguy wrote: »
    And there are plans for 2 sets of traffic lights in Abbeyfeale. Not sure has it been passed by the councillors yet. Madness.
    Will only strengthen the case for a bypass.

    The people of Abbeyfeale shouldn't have to suffer because of Government incompetence.


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    #413
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,552 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    marno21 wrote: »
    Scheme website has been updated to include drawings of a detailed design of the planned route: www.foyneslimerick.ie

    The mainline from Patrickswell to Rathkeale will be motorway (M21). The scheme now ends at a roundabout in Rathkeale, which will likely see congestion at peak times (will we ever learn?)

    This looks like the outline of a future dumbell junction?

    https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/1cba1b_8df528998d3b44a4b0b0a60de71a1ace.pdf


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    #414
    Limerick74
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Limerick74


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    This looks like the outline of a future dumbell junction?

    https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/1cba1b_8df528998d3b44a4b0b0a60de71a1ace.pdf

    It was previously shown on the June 2017 Design Update. https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/1cba1b_6a04cad21cc74c458c13694ebf7e12ef.pdf


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    #415
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,552 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Limerick74 wrote: »
    It was previously shown on the June 2017 Design Update. https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/1cba1b_6a04cad21cc74c458c13694ebf7e12ef.pdf

    Yeah, yeh see a proper country would build a free flow trumpet there for the port access road but this is Ireland :rolleyes:


    "What's the cheapest most half assed solution we can come up with?"


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    #416
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    I'm surprised that a dumbell is TEN-T compliant tbh


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    #417
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,547 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    This is genuinely amazing. What sort of idiots do we have in the road design department.


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    #418
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Thats not a dumbbell in my mind, thats a roundabout for the end of the motorway with a local road and a second roundabout tacked on the end.


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    #419
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,547 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    Thats not a dumbbell in my mind, thats a roundabout for the end of the motorway with a local road and a second roundabout tacked on the end.

    Even so, the road could still have been ended with a dumbbell.


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    #420
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    Thats not a dumbbell in my mind, thats a roundabout for the end of the motorway with a local road and a second roundabout tacked on the end.

    Yeah, only the Northern roundabout links to the motorway. The Southern one is a link to the old N21. So the motorway will end at an at grade roundabout rather than a GSJ. Similar to the end of the M9.


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    #421
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I hate to say it but I agree with it. I'd much rather a motorway end at a roundabout than a GSJ knowing our driving habits. Don't forget the number of accidents at the Beehive when the M11 just ended and went down a hill to a junction. No-one slowed down.

    Since the motorway will never go to Foynes, end it at a roundabout to break up traffic.


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