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Peru drug smuggling case - READ OP BEFORE POSTING

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    #122
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    PucaMama wrote: »
    Wether they were coerced or not a crime was committed. By your logic should every criminal walk the streets free until its 100% per cent proven the done it? Should there be noone held in custody? Or should they be kept in 5 star hotel conditions?

    Actually yeah, unless their alleged crimes are violent I absolutely approve of bail for people who haven't been found guilty in a court of law. It's called due process, and it's called innocent until proven guilty.
    There's also a big difference between asking for 5 star hotels and asking for basic decent living conditions. Your strawman arguments are ridiculous.

    Your dismissal of the potential coercion also seems moronic to me. If I mug someone at gunpoint while the guy standing behind me is pointing a gun at my head should I be jailed for it?


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    #123
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Actually yeah, unless their alleged crimes are violent I absolutely approve of bail for people who haven't been found guilty in a court of law. It's called due process, and it's called innocent until proven guilty.

    Its not like she's a flight risk or anything.


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    #124
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    saintsaltynuts wrote: »
    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    They haven't been convicted of anything.
    Come on they knew what they we're carrying.By the look of them they dont seem to be all that fazed by it.Acting like they'll be home in a couple of weeks or so.Reality is going to hit home soon enough when they realize the severity of the crime they have committed.It wont be nice.

    They haven't been convicted of anything. By the laws of due process, they have committed no crime until a guilty verdict has been passed by a court of law.

    Why the hell is everyone in this thread so opposed to them? You'd think they'd been convicted of terrorism, not accused (without yet being convicted) of a nonviolent offense...


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    #125
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Its not like she's a flight risk or anything.

    So make her surrender her passport.


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    #126
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,938 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Rhys Essien wrote: »
    Fair enough but should the Spanish and British police also be trying to find out who sanctioned the drug run.

    Who are the dons??Will M+M spill the beans on who was their boss I wonder?
    Every country has an eye on the big guys and when they slip up they are caught, the girls are low level and would have no link whatsoever to anyone worthwhile.
    as for who sanctioned the drug run, well that insinuates this was a major operation...it wasn't it was a daily business as usual job...insignificant in the bigger scheme.


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    #127
    TheNap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 786 ✭✭✭TheNap


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    Care to explain for all us unlearned folks?



    Been to Ibiza a lot over the last 5 years . Each time the people approaching you or knocking on your hotel door looking to sell you drugs are young ( pretty ) girls from the UK and Ireland . They've gone over for the summer and get a taste for the highlife . They make money while they are sunbathing by pools or walking on a beach . These 2 girls clearly got caught up in that and either ran up a debt of their own , or were naive enough to believe they would get away with it and it would be handy money . They have to leave with the consequences . Dont see why theres such a big deal being made of it .


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    #128
    enda1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    So make her surrender her passport.

    One would quite easily get across land borders to French Guiana for example.


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    #129
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #130
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    So make her surrender her passport.

    She's innocent, she wouldn't try anything.


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    #131
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 50,630 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TheNap wrote: »
    Been to Ibiza a lot over the last 5 years . Each time the people approaching you or knocking on your hotel door looking to sell you drugs are young ( pretty ) girls from the UK and Ireland . They've gone over for the summer and get a taste for the highlife . They make money while they are sunbathing by pools or walking on a beach . These 2 girls clearly got caught up in that and either ran up a debt of their own , or were naive enough to believe they would get away with it and it would be handy money . They have to leave with the consequences . Dont see why theres such a big deal being made of it .

    When I was in Ibzia the people offering drugs were neither young, pretty, nor girls.


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    #132
    enda1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    She's innocent, she wouldn't try anything.

    I sure as hell would! Feck that, get back to the EU and stick up 2 fingers to them. There's no way Ireland or the UK would extradite to there (I guess).


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    #133
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    enda1 wrote: »
    I sure as hell would! Feck that, get back to the EU and stick up 2 fingers to them. There's no way Ireland or the UK would extradite to there (I guess).

    There's no legal way for Ireland to extradite to Peru.


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    #134
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    They haven't been convicted of anything. By the laws of due process, they have committed no crime until a guilty verdict has been passed by a court of law.

    Why the hell is everyone in this thread so opposed to them? You'd think they'd been convicted of terrorism, not accused (without yet being convicted) of a nonviolent offense...

    Because we think they're lying. And AH hates liars.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    When I was in Ibzia the people offering drugs were neither young, pretty, nor girls.

    When I went there no-one ever even offered me drugs :(


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    #135
    enda1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    There's no legal way for Ireland to extradite to Peru.

    Thanks. So that's what I'd do anyway. Get out of dodge. I think most people would do the same so for me it's completely understandable that they are keeping her in remand.


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    #136
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 50,630 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kylith wrote: »
    When I went there no-one ever even offered me drugs :(

    I must have had a look about me :/


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    #137
    Teyla Emmagan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    Why don't they just plead guilty? Even if I had been innocent in that situation (which I don't think they are), I would have pleaded guilty just to get out of there. 6 months to trial, then 2 years (if you're lucky) and you're home. Versus 2/3 years waiting to go to trial and then potentially 25 years in prison. No way, Jose. I'd be claiming I killed Kennedy right now to get out of there.


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    #138
    Tugboats
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭Tugboats


    Teyla Emmagan wrote: »
    Why don't they just plead guilty? Even if I had been innocent in that situation (which I don't think they are), I would have pleaded guilty just to get out of there. 6 months to trial, then 2 years (if you're lucky) and you're home. Versus 2/3 years waiting to go to trial and then potentially 25 years in prison. No way, Jose. I'd be claiming I killed Kennedy right now to get out of there.

    The longer they stay in jail the more money they can make on book deals and what not. They'll be on Celebrity Big brother in 15 years:cool:


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    #139
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    I don't agree. Peru has many Westerners on prison, some even past their release dates as they haven't the funds to pay for the release processing. They don't really 'take care' of prisoners anyways--you even have to be given a fork and plate from somewhere else, otherwise you don't eat!

    Maybe so, I know FA about Peruvian prisons, but these girls are probably more high profile than most, I think politics could play a part.


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    #140
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,938 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    TheNap wrote: »
    Been to Ibiza a lot over the last 5 years . Each time the people approaching you or knocking on your hotel door looking to sell you drugs are young ( pretty ) girls from the UK and Ireland . They've gone over for the summer and get a taste for the highlife . They make money while they are sunbathing by pools or walking on a beach . These 2 girls clearly got caught up in that and either ran up a debt of their own , or were naive enough to believe they would get away with it and it would be handy money . They have to leave with the consequences . Dont see why theres such a big deal being made of it .

    that has nothing to do with rug muling in peru


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    #141
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I must have had a look about me :/

    You must either look like a cop, or look like you're already out of your bin.


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    #142
    Menas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    They haven't been convicted of anything. By the laws of due process, they have committed no crime until a guilty verdict has been passed by a court of law.

    But in Peru they practice a modern deviation of Napoleonic code which means that suspects, once charged, are guilty until proven innocent.


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    #143
    PucaMama
    Registered Users Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Actually yeah, unless their alleged crimes are violent I absolutely approve of bail for people who haven't been found guilty in a court of law. It's called due process, and it's called innocent until proven guilty.
    There's also a big difference between asking for 5 star hotels and asking for basic decent living conditions. Your strawman arguments are ridiculous.

    Your dismissal of the potential coercion also seems moronic to me. If I mug someone at gunpoint while the guy standing behind me is pointing a gun at my head should I be jailed for it?
    Yeah because I dont agree with you my arguments are strawmen. For the record I dont for one minute believe their story. They broke the law. Now let them pay the price of getting caught.


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    #144
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    How did the Colombia 3 get out of Colombia that time? Were there passports not taken when they were released?


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    #145
    DellyBelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,946 ✭✭✭DellyBelly


    I don't know why but I think they are telling the truth. I was a bit suspect at first but the more I read about this case the more I believe them. What an awful thing to happen them. There are some evil people in the world ready to take advantage of young innocent people. I really hope the judge weighs up the evidence and feels the same way and they can come back home.


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    #146
    Menas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    jack presley wrote: »
    How did the Colombia 3 get out of Colombia that time? Were there passports not taken when they were released?

    Well, considering that one of the charges against them was that they had been travelling on false passports I would guess this was not too difficult for them to solve!


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    #147
    SyntonFenix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 620 ✭✭✭SyntonFenix


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    They haven't been convicted of anything. By the laws of due process, they have committed no crime until a guilty verdict has been passed by a court of law.

    Why the hell is everyone in this thread so opposed to them? You'd think they'd been convicted of terrorism, not accused (without yet being convicted) of a nonviolent offense...

    With modern technology it's not like the old days where you had one photo of the accused on the front page of a newspaper, then sit back for a few months waiting for evidence to come out in the trial.

    It's all there to see in the photos published. These women are associated with the drug culture on Ibiza, they worked in bars in San Antonio.

    I can understand giving people the benefit of the doubt sometimes. In this case, it's fairly obvious to me there was no kidnapping, they got offered to travel to Peru, smuggle some drugs and make some easy money. They got caught. I've seen no evidence yet to support otherwise.


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    #148
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    jack presley wrote: »
    How did the Colombia 3 get out of Colombia that time? Were there passports not taken when they were released?

    There's ways and means of spiriting yourself across the border and then going to your embassy and getting them to issue replacement passports to go home.


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    #149
    Menas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    DellyBelly wrote: »
    I don't know why but I think they are telling the truth. I was a bit suspect at first but the more I read about this case the more I believe them. What an awful thing to happen them. There are some evil people in the world ready to take advantage of young innocent people. I really hope the judge weighs up the evidence and feels the same way and they can come back home.

    Why would a gang of drug runners kidnap and coerce the 2 girls in to doing this when they have a proven method of smuggling drugs? Way too risky and high chance of failure.

    ie, Get someone who is gullible enough and willing to take the risk for a few grand. This is their tried and tested method for at least the last 30 years, so why would they now deviate from this?


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    #150
    SyntonFenix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 620 ✭✭✭SyntonFenix


    jack presley wrote: »
    How did the Colombia 3 get out of Colombia that time? Were there passports not taken when they were released?
    The day after their conviction, the Colombian Attorney General announced that the men had fled Colombia.[10]

    On 5 August 2005, following an interview with Monaghan by RTÉ's Charlie Bird, it emerged that the three men had clandestinely returned to Ireland.[11]

    The three men were subsequently questioned by Gardaí but no moves have been taken in relation to extraditing them to Colombia, despite the existence of an Colombian arrest warrant, since no extradition treaty or agreement exists between Colombia and Ireland.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombia_Three


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    #151
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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