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Irish teenager is 'being beaten to hell' in a Cairo prison

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    #92
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Boombastic wrote: »
    This child was in Egypt at a PROTEST. He was possibly captured, imprisoned and beaten. He is an Irish citizen so it is a FOREIGN CAUSE. If he gets home safely he will be angry and bitter about the people who beat him. He may use that angerness and bitterness to promote a radical element (Although the fact that he was out protesting, with such high stakes involved (His Life) would lead me to believe that he is already involved with a RADICAL ELEMENT.

    So have you EVER protested ANYWHERE about ANYTHING?


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    #93
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    bumper234 wrote: »
    So have you EVER protested ANYWHERE about ANYTHING?

    I protested for the Irish Consulate to stop helping people who willfully disobeyed their guidelines on travelling to an area and get imprisoned or shot


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    #94
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Boombastic wrote: »
    This child was in Egypt at a PROTEST..

    Yep.
    Boombastic wrote: »
    He was possibly captured, imprisoned and beaten. He is an Irish citizen so it is a FOREIGN CAUSE. .


    As he is of Egyptian descent and has relations there, its only natural that he has sympathy for one side or another there. Thus to just throw "foreign cause" in as if that's some strange thing is simplistic and reeks of xenophobia.

    I might add that you used the word "fight". There's no indication that he was involved in violence or travelled to do so. You still haven't explained why you used the phrase "not the first teenager who has gone to fight a foreign cause" in connection somebody who was at a public peaceful protest with his sisters.
    Boombastic wrote: »
    If he gets home safely he will be angry and bitter about the people who beat him. He may use that angerness and bitterness to promote a radical element (Although the fact that he was out protesting, with such high stakes involved (His Life) would lead me to believe that he is already involved with a RADICAL ELEMENT.

    Wild speculation based on various islamophobic assumptions and presumptions. Given the violence of the crackdown took most by surprise, theres no reason to believe he thought his life was at risk.

    You still haven't answered the question - "Have you ever taken to the streets protested about ANYTHING ever?"


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    #95
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Boombastic wrote: »
    I protested for the Irish Consulate to stop helping people who willfully disobeyed their guidelines on travelling to an area and get imprisoned or shot

    I suppose in your eyes it was a good thing that the British soldiers used to snatch protesters off the streets in the 70's and 80's and inter them for weeks and months with no trial?


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    #96
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Boombastic wrote: »
    I protested for the Irish Consulate to stop helping people who willfully disobeyed their guidelines on travelling to an area and get imprisoned or shot


    The advice was issued after they travelled, so no, you didn't. Try again.


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    #97
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Nodin wrote: »
    .............
    As he is of Egyptian descent and has relations there, its only natural that he has sympathy for one side or another there. Thus to just throw "foreign cause" in as if that's some strange thing is simplistic and reeks of xenophobia.
    ...................................

    No, we had the situation in NI where young lads were dying for a cause which had long since been forgotten because the hatred for the other side was bred in to them from birth. To support this inter generational hatred is a very dangerous.


    @bumper, where many Egyptian citizens interned?


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    #98
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Nodin wrote: »
    The advice was issued after they travelled, so no, you didn't. Try again.

    If they have relatives there and knew enough about the situation to lend their support, surely they knew it was volatile


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    #99
    crazygweilo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5 ✭crazygweilo


    While I feel sympathy, the reality is this. Egypt is too valuable to us all to loose to a bunch of religious fanatics. 1957 taught us that. Religious fanatics can only be dealt with in one fashion only. Let's be damn clear how.

    Cattle prods and Alsatians. Nothing else works. If they love God so much, hurry up and join him.


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    #100
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Boombastic wrote: »
    No, we had the situation in NI where young lads were dying for a cause which had long since been forgotten because the hatred for the other side was bred in to them from birth. To support this inter generational hatred is a very dangerous.

    A bizarre and utterly fallacious assessment of the causes of the Northern conflict. Nor am I sure what point you're trying to make.

    You realise that people who emigrate to other countries frequently maintain ties with their home country? lobby on its behalf?

    You still haven't explained why you used the phrasing " not the first teenager who has gone to fight a foreign cause " in regards to a teenager at a protest in broad daylight with three family members.

    You still haven't answered the question
    "Have you ever taken to the streets protested about ANYTHING ever?" It's rather telling.


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    #101
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Nodin wrote: »
    .......................
    You still haven't explained why you used the phrasing " not the first teenager who has gone to fight a foreign cause " in regards to a teenager at a protest in broad daylight with three family members.
    ......

    ..a protest in a foreign country, which was likely to turn violent


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    #102
    studiorat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5ShxXQ_GF8


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    #103
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Boombastic wrote: »
    ..a protest in a foreign country, which was likely to turn violent


    ....you keep evading, and throwing in this speculation.

    Do you acknowledge that immigrants in a state often maintain ties with their country of origin, and that this is quite common?

    You still haven't explained why you used the phrasing " not the first teenager who has gone to fight a foreign cause " in regards to a teenager at a protest in broad daylight with three family members. Three female family members.

    When I first queried you on it, you threw up a link about a lad who had gone to fight in Syria. Why did you do so?

    You still haven't answered the question
    "Have you ever taken to the streets protested about ANYTHING ever?" It's rather telling.


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    #104
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....you keep evading, and throwing in this speculation.

    Do you acknowledge that immigrants in a state often maintain ties with their country of origin, and that this is quite common?

    You still haven't explained why you used the phrasing " not the first teenager who has gone to fight a foreign cause " in regards to a teenager at a protest in broad daylight with three family members. Three female family members.

    When I first queried you on it, you threw up a link about a lad who had gone to fight in Syria. Why did you do so?

    You still haven't answered the question
    "Have you ever taken to the streets protested about ANYTHING ever?" It's rather telling.

    What you're implying is sexist Nodin, ;)

    The relation to the guy in Syria is both are young Irish teenagers who endangered their lives to protest a foreign regime. How about you answer the ones in the OP? Immigrants retain ties, but strong enough ties to die for a country they have never lived in?


    I am evading no questions accept that stupid one about if I have protested because it is of no relevance to this thread


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    #105
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Boombastic wrote: »
    What you're implying is sexist Nodin, ;)

    No, its called "context". It involves the use of facts.

    Boombastic wrote:
    The relation to the guy in Syria is both are young Irish teenagers who endangered their lives to protest a foreign regime.

    Being a bit dishonest there, aren't we? That lad went to fight with the rebels in Syria. You compared another lad attending a peaceful protest with him. You implied, in fact, that the young man in Egypt was there to 'fight'. Why did you do that?
    Boombastic wrote:
    How about you answer the ones in the OP? .

    I believe that I have. If theres something I've missed, please tell me what it is.
    Boombastic wrote:
    Immigrants retain ties, but strong enough ties to die for a country they have never lived in?.

    Occassionally. Theres no evidence he had any intention of dying, however.
    Boombastic wrote:
    I am evading no questions accept that stupid one about if I have protested because it is of no relevance to this thread

    It is, because you stated
    Boombastic wrote:
    Did the parents not move to Ireland for a better life, were they out protesting at the bank bail outs or any other Irish issue?

    Did you protest at the bank bail outs or any other Irish issue?


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    #106
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Nodin wrote: »
    No, its called "context". It involves the use of facts.




    Being a bit dishonest there, aren't we? That lad went to fight with the rebels in Syria. You compared another lad attending a peaceful protest with him. You implied, in fact, that the young man in Egypt was there to 'fight'. Why did you do that?



    I believe that I have. If theres something I've missed, please tell me what it is.


    Occassionally. Theres no evidence he had any intention of dying, however.



    It is, because you stated



    Did you protest at the bank bail outs or any other Irish issue?


    No it's implying that they were not there to cause trouble because they were women.

    The peaceful protests were being attacked as early as Wednesday so they had to have some suspicion of what could possibly happen,. This boy is 17. Who was his guardian on this trip and why didn't they remove him from such a situation?


    just wondering if they are willing to travel a couple of thousand miles to protest, did they attend any on their doorstep in their country of citizenship?


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    #107
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    seamus wrote: »
    If I was Egyptian, possibly. This violence is relatively new; Morsi was removed peacefully and things were relatively stable. Presumably the family went to Egypt at this time. How were they to know that this crap would kick off in the last week?

    You're also looking at it from an outsider's point of view. Imagine you were from Belfast and emigrated to the U.S. in the 1960's. Your children hit their late teens in the early 80s and you send them to Belfast to meet their family (and yours) and get a sense of your culture.
    Your American neighbours are calling you mad for sending your children into a warzone.

    Who's right?

    Your children start attending marches in support of the IRA/Unions/PIRA pick a group. What then?


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    #108
    studiorat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    The father of the family in question is the general secretary for the European Council for Fatwa and Research. The ECFR is a mouthpiece for the Egyptian theologian Yusuf al-Qaradawi who also happens to be prominent in the Muslim Brotherhood who according to himself consider him as their mufti.

    They were working with a group called " Egyptians Abroad for Democracy" which on the day they launched openly declared their support for Morsi and the MB. To think they were just passing through and happened to get caught up by accident is either a useful idiot or naive in the extreme.


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    #109
    Autonomous Cowherd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    Even if they were actively involved in protest against what has basically been savagery, especially that day the army went in to disperse the camp and literally blew the crap out of the place killing between 500-1000, so what! I would too if i had the bravery. Are we all supposed to lie down and play dead now, especially if the authorities have the most firepower? I have been praying for these youngsters since I heard the story, and hopefully they will be safe soon. Unfortunately we cannot say the same for the ordinary people who must live in Egypt. I have a friedn in New York whose sister married an Egyptian and she sent her 2 sons to USA recently to be safe. I asked why her sister and the sister's daughter did not also get the hell out of there, since the sister grew up in New York (a Catholic) but she explained it is because they are both Muslim now and wear the Hijab, and the level of abuse and threat they are exposed to in USA is more intolerable than the danger they live under in Egypt. Wow, what a weird world we live in!!


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    #110
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    studiorat wrote: »
    The father of the family in question is the general secretary for the European Council for Fatwa and Research. The ECFR is a mouthpiece for the Egyptian theologian Yusuf al-Qaradawi who also happens to be prominent in the Muslim Brotherhood who according to himself consider him as their mufti.

    They were working with a group called " Egyptians Abroad for Democracy" which on the day they launched openly declared their support for Morsi and the MB. To think they were just passing through and happened to get caught up by accident is either a useful idiot or naive in the extreme.

    A man with such influence willing to sacrifice his family for the cause in Egypt, interesting


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    #111
    up for anything
    Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭up for anything


    Boombastic wrote: »
    A man with such influence willing to sacrifice his family for the cause in Egypt, interesting


    That reads suspiciously like a statement of fact. What evidence do you have to back it up?


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    #112
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    up for anything wrote: »
    That reads suspiciously like a statement of fact. What evidence do you have to back it up?

    What was his 17 year old son doing at a protest in Egypt?


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    #113
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Boombastic wrote: »
    What was his 17 year old son doing at a protest in Egypt?

    You have never protested so you wouldn't understand.


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    #114
    up for anything
    Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭up for anything


    Boombastic wrote: »
    What was his 17 year old son doing at a protest in Egypt?


    You answer my question first, please. People generally answer a question with a question because they don't know the answer to the question they were asked.


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    #115
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    up for anything wrote: »
    You answer my question first, please. People generally answer a question with a question because they don't know the answer to the question they were asked.

    Boom does not like to answer questions he prefers to keep posting sensationalist things hoping to get a reaction.


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    #116
    up for anything
    Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭up for anything


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Boom does not like to answer questions he prefers to keep posting sensationalist things hoping to get a reaction.

    I assume Boombastic is bombastic only noisier. :cool:


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    #117
    FrostyJack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭FrostyJack


    Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »
    Even if they were actively involved in protest against what has basically been savagery, especially that day the army went in to disperse the camp and literally blew the crap out of the place killing between 500-1000, so what! I would too if i had the bravery. Are we all supposed to lie down and play dead now, especially if the authorities have the most firepower? I have been praying for these youngsters since I heard the story, and hopefully they will be safe soon. Unfortunately we cannot say the same for the ordinary people who must live in Egypt. I have a friedn in New York whose sister married an Egyptian and she sent her 2 sons to USA recently to be safe. I asked why her sister and the sister's daughter did not also get the hell out of there, since the sister grew up in New York (a Catholic) but she explained it is because they are both Muslim now and wear the Hijab, and the level of abuse and threat they are exposed to in USA is more intolerable than the danger they live under in Egypt. Wow, what a weird world we live in!!

    To protest one group over savagery while ignoring the other groups savagery is ridiculous. The MB have ruined the country and brought it to the brink of a civil war. Go on liveleak and see what both sides are capable of and then chose one over the other. It is not a black and white scenario.


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    #118
    Autonomous Cowherd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    FrostyJack wrote: »
    To protest one group over savagery while ignoring the other groups savagery is ridiculous. The MB have ruined the country and brought it to the brink of a civil war. Go on liveleak and see what both sides are capable of and then chose one over the other. It is not a black and white scenario.

    I agree Frosty Jack..both sides are capable of atrocity. It is most certainly not black and white, but then that's life, it's complex...no matter what side we take or even if we sit on the fence, we can not know the full story. The MB certainly threw away their opportunity after the election with both hands. But I can also see why people would protest against a coup.


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    #119
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    up for anything wrote: »
    You answer my question first, please. People generally answer a question with a question because they don't know the answer to the question they were asked.

    My question is the answer to your question. I'm thinking the father be charged with child endangerment/neglect.


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    #120
    up for anything
    Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭up for anything


    Boombastic wrote: »
    A man with such influence willing to sacrifice his family for the cause in Egypt, interesting
    up for anything wrote: »
    That reads suspiciously like a statement of fact. What evidence do you have to back it up?
    Boombastic wrote: »
    What was his 17 year old son doing at a protest in Egypt?
    Boombastic wrote: »
    My question is the answer to your question. I'm thinking the father be charged with child endangerment/neglect.

    No, your question is not the answer to my question. I asked what evidence you have to back up your initial statement. Answer my question or don't answer it but don't pretend to answer.


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    #121
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    up for anything wrote: »
    No, your question is not the answer to my question. I asked what evidence you have to back up your initial statement. Answer my question or don't answer it but don't pretend to answer.

    He is an man of influence. His minor child is involved, has been possibly captured and beaten in a foreign country. What's so hard to understand?


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