Irish teenager is 'being beaten to hell' in a Cairo prison

Boombastic

Ibrihim was arrested on Saturday along with his sisters Omaima, 20, Fatima, 22, and Somaia, 27.
He completed his school leaving certificate before the summer holiday, and was due to hear back from the universities he applied to today.
His father, Sheikh Hussein Halawa - the imam of Ireland's largest mosque - has appealed for the Irish Government to act quickly to free his children from detention.
Ms Halawa said she was worried her siblings would be killed, telling RTE Radio: 'There is no difference now between anyone. They can kill anyone.

..................................

She admitted that her siblings had been involved in protests, but insisted that they were peaceful, adding: 'The people want democracy and other people want a coup. People in Egypt want democracy.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2396993/Irish-teen-Ibrihim-Halawa-caught-Egypt-protests-beaten-hell-Cairo-prison.html#ixzz2cQ5eCF00
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A young man, who should be out celebrating his acceptance offers in to college, is in a Cario prison. While perhaps every effort should be made to help these Irish citizens, but questions should be raised over what they were doing there.

Would you send you young teenager/son/brother on holiday to an unstable region and bring them to a protest which was likely to turn violent?


What was a 17 year old who was born and raised in Ireland doing at a protest in Egypt, is there a radical element here in Ireland and what measures are been taken to counteract this? This is not the first teenager who has gone to fight a foreign cause.

If they were not radicalized/brainwashed before they went, they will be by the time they get back. Did the parents not move to Ireland for a better life, were they out protesting at the bank bail outs or any other Irish issue?

BeerWolf

Fools been told not to go there...

/sigh

Nodin

Boombastic wrote: »

What was a 17 year old who was born and raised in Ireland doing at a protest in Egypt, is there a radical element here in Ireland and what measures are been taken to counteract this? This is not the first teenager who has gone to fight a foreign cause.

Its a family of three girls and one lad.

Is there a list of things you have that people aren't allowed protest about?

No, its been a regular occurrence. Lads have gone off to fight for the Brits, French, Spanish, Americans, Australians and jaysus knows. As far as I know, few mickey fits were had over the fact. How did we get from being at a protest to "fight for a foreign cause"?

Boombastic wrote: »

If they were not radicalized/brainwashed before they went, they will be by the time they get back.

Not that you're flying in feet first with crap and hysteria or anything.

Boombastic wrote: »

Did the parents not move to Ireland for a better life, were they out protesting at the bank bail outs or any other Irish issue?

O look - xenophobia.

Wacker The Attacker

Maybe travelling to a country on the verge of civil war isn't such a good idea after all

gobnaitolunacy

Nodin wrote: »

No, its been a regular occurrence. Lads have gone off to fight for the Brits, French, Spanish, Americans, Australians and jaysus knows. As far as I know, few mickey fits were had over the fact. How did we get from being at a protest to "fight for a foreign cause"?

Er, maybe all those people who went off to fight for other causes didn't go waving Irish passports and come crawling to the Irish govt to get them out of trouble?

Boombastic

Nodin wrote: »

Its a family of three girls and one lad.

Is there a list of things you have that people aren't allowed protest about?

No, its been a regular occurrence. Lads have gone off to fight for the Brits, French, Spanish, Americans, Australians and jaysus knows. As far as I know, few mickey fits were had over the fact. How did we get from being at a protest to "fight for a foreign cause"?


Not that you're flying in feet first with crap and hysteria or anything.


O look - xenophobia.

I know its a family of 3 girls and 1 lad, it says so with pictures and all in the link I posted;)


Fight for a foreign cause, I refer to that young boy (16) who went to fight in Syria http://www.irishtimes.com/news/navan-teenager-killed-fighting-with-syrian-rebels-1.1314065


Do you not think there is a strong possibility he could be killed? Who would wish to put their teenager in that position?


Not a xenophobe, they are obviously passionate about politics, I'm just wonder have they shown this passion about any issue which effect their home country

Nodin

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Er, maybe all those people who went off to fight for other causes didn't go waving Irish passports and come crawling to the Irish govt to get them out of trouble?

.....who was fighting here? The three girls? the lad?

gobnaitolunacy

Nodin wrote: »

.....who was fighting here? The three girls? the lad?

Demonstrating....well, looking for trouble in other words.

bumper234

For starters the thread title is misleading.


Although the headline (mail lol) says

Irish teenager caught up with his sisters in Egypt protests is 'being beaten to hell' in a Cairo prison


The report says

A 17-year-old Irish boy who is currently in jail in Cairo could have been 'beaten to hell' by Egyptian prison guards, according to his sister.


Also

The Halawas had travelled to Egypt earlier this summer for a holiday and were joined by their mother a fortnight ago.


So it's not like they went over there KNOWING this was going to go the way it went.

Nodin

Boombastic wrote: »

I know its a family of 3 girls and 1 lad, it says so with pictures and all in the link I posted;)


Fight for a foreign cause, I refer to that young boy (16) who went to fight in Syria http://www.irishtimes.com/news/navan-teenager-killed-fighting-with-syrian-rebels-1.1314065

What's that to do with these three?

Boombastic wrote: »

Do you not think there is a strong possibility he could be killed? Who would wish to put their teenager in that position?

"teenagers" - the three girls have been locked up too. How do you know they didn't go to Egypt before trouble started?

Boombastic wrote: »

Not a xenophobe, they are obviously passionate about politics, I'm just wonder have they shown this passion about any issue which effect their home country

No, that's xenophobia.

Shenshen

While I completely and utterly disagree with the way Egypt is treating people both in the street and in its prisons I can't help feeling that surely, the fellow knew what may be in store for him before he took to the street?

Not that I'm saying that the situation does have to change, and that if he was indeed protesting peacefully he should be set free immediately, but I think that should apply to everyone who is falsely imprisoned, not just this lad just cause his dad happens to live in Ireland?

Boombastic

Nodin wrote: »

.......


Not that you're flying in feet first with crap and hysteria or anything.


............

Do you not think they will come back bitter and angry after their experience and more willing to demonstrate and protest = more radicalised

Seachmall

A 16 year old risking his life to protest a murderous regime and promote democracy is admirable in my books.

Much better than a 16 year old downing a few cans of Dutch and getting pissed around town.


I say the government should do everything they can to bring him home.

Duck's hoop

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Maybe travelling to a country on the verge of civil war isn't such a good idea after all

There are many Irish holidaymakers there as we write smart comments. Most of them not being tortured in jail.

Nodin

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Demonstrating....well, looking for trouble in other words.

Jaysus yeah. They should ban demonstrations. And that "dissent" thing. Only gougers, the lot of them.

Boombastic

Nodin wrote: »

What's that to do with these three?


"teenagers" - the three girls have been locked up too. How do you know they didn't go to Egypt before trouble started?



No, that's xenophobia.

The girls are over 18, the boy is not
They were holidaying in Egypt! but they actively attended the protests

Teyla Emmagan

bumper234 wrote: »

The Halawas had travelled to Egypt earlier this summer for a holiday and were joined by their mother a fortnight ago.


So it's not like they went over there KNOWING this was going to go the way it went.

So why didn't they come home in the meantime? I have no patience for this sort of thing, waste of government resources getting them out of a mess they've only gotten themselves into. Of course if you're joining in the protests in a place as dangerous and volatile as Egypt at the moment bad things are going to happen. They're just very lucky they had their Irish passports to wave around when it did.

bumper234

Boombastic wrote: »

Do you not think they will come back bitter and angry after their experience and more willing to demonstrate and protest = more radicalised

I think they will come back and be glad that the Irish government did what they could to secure their release.

Nodin

Boombastic wrote: »

Do you not think they will come back bitter and angry after their experience and more willing to demonstrate and protest = more radicalised

....that's based on a series of presumptions and assumptions that have little basis in fact. If they do get bitter and angry, it'll probably be after wading through a few threads like this.

NIMAN

Are they Irish or Egyptian?

Tricky one for the Irish Gov - apparently 4 of their citizens but I don't think they want to rock the boat, we love our neutrality and all !!

Nodin

Boombastic wrote: »

The girls are over 18, the boy is not
They were holidaying in Egypt! but they actively attended the protests

"actively" eh? O the horror.

bumper234

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

So why didn't they come home in the meantime? I have no patience for this sort of thing, waste of government resources getting them out of a mess they've only gotten themselves into. Of course if you're joining in the protests in a place as dangerous and volatile as Egypt at the moment bad things are going to happen. They're just very lucky they had their Irish passports to wave around when it did.

ok lets say you live in Canada and come home to visit family and in the meantime the government starts killing people while you are here. Do you protest about the killings or do you hide under your bed while looking for a way...actually don't bother i know what you're going to say:rolleyes:

Boombastic

bumper234 wrote: »

ok lets say you live in Canada and come home to visit family and in the meantime the government starts killing people while you are here. Do you protest about the killings or do you hide under your bed while looking for a way...actually don't bother i know what you're going to say:rolleyes:

He was born and raised in Ireland. So....

Nodin

Boombastic wrote: »

He was born and raised in Ireland. So....

so....?

Lenin Skynard

NIMAN wrote: »

Are they Irish or Egyptian?

Irish.

bumper234

Boombastic wrote: »

He was born and raised in Ireland. So....

And has relatives there in Egypt

Leftist

If they were white, irish born citizens who were arrested in a foreign state for participating in a peaceful process, they would be receiving a far different perspective from the same people who are suggesting they 'knew what they are getting into'

The difference in perspective is judged by these people entirely on ethnicity and race.

Shenshen

bumper234 wrote: »

ok lets say you live in Canada and come home to visit family and in the meantime the government starts killing people while you are here. Do you protest about the killings or do you hide under your bed while looking for a way...actually don't bother i know what you're going to say:rolleyes:

Let's say I did the former - how much would you expect the Canadian government to get involved on my behalf?

Leaving aside the utter unfairness of said government only getting involved on behalf of one person, not the several hundred non-Canadians who might be equally in need of assistance.

Seachmall

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I have no patience for this sort of thing

What sort of thing?

The selfless and peaceful promotion of freedom for those who live under totalitarian rule?


Ya, what muppet would want to encourage that?

Boombastic

Nodin wrote: »

so....?

So it's not like coming home from Canada and attending a protest in Ireland

Duck's hoop

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

So why didn't they come home in the meantime? I have no patience for this sort of thing, waste of government resources getting them out of a mess they've only gotten themselves into. Of course if you're joining in the protests in a place as dangerous and volatile as Egypt at the moment bad things are going to happen. They're just very lucky they had their Irish passports to wave around when it did.

People are protesting. It's their right. They are then being shot dead or imprisoned and tortured because they protested.

But it annoys you that the Irish govt might find time to help them out? The flippancy with which you say these things, and 'wave their passports around' leads me to hope, fervently, that you really haven't a fcuking clue how serious the situation is.

seamus

The Irish government is traditionally supportive of Irish citizens taking part in peaceful demonstrations overseas, so I would expect the Minister for Foreign Affairs to speak to the Egyptian embassy to discuss the release and repatriation of these kids.

Arrogance is probably what got them caught up in this. In the west if you attend a protest, about the worst you can expect to happen if your fellow protesters get violent is that you get a smack across the head, a spray of a water cannon, and maybe a night in a cell. Go protesting in the middle east and you can find yourself dead or locked up in medieval prisons for a long time without trial.

Boombastic

seamus wrote: »

......... Go protesting in the middle east and you can find yourself dead or locked up in medieval prisons for a long time without trial.

Knowing this, would you allow your 17 year old to holiday there?

Micky Dolenz

Interesting read here. Have a mate out there working and he is saying things are getting really really bad.

Seachmall

Boombastic wrote: »

Knowing this, would you allow your 17 year old to holiday there?

What has this got to do with anything?

Boombastic

Seachmall wrote: »

What has this got to do with anything?

check out the title of the thread and the OP! :eek:

Leftist

Boombastic wrote: »

So it's not like coming home from Canada and attending a protest in Ireland

why not? explain it.

seamus

Boombastic wrote: »

Knowing this, would you allow your 17 year old to holiday there?

If I was Egyptian, possibly. This violence is relatively new; Morsi was removed peacefully and things were relatively stable. Presumably the family went to Egypt at this time. How were they to know that this crap would kick off in the last week?

You're also looking at it from an outsider's point of view. Imagine you were from Belfast and emigrated to the U.S. in the 1960's. Your children hit their late teens in the early 80s and you send them to Belfast to meet their family (and yours) and get a sense of your culture.
Your American neighbours are calling you mad for sending your children into a warzone.

Who's right?

Seachmall

Boombastic wrote: »

check out the title of the thread and the OP! :eek:

Oops, my bad.

granturismo

Halawa siblings to meet Egyptian prosecutor
The four Irish citizens are said to be in good health

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/halawa-siblings-to-meet-egyptian-prosecutor-1.1498114

Where's the link to say he's been beaten to hell?

gobnaitolunacy

granturismo wrote: »

Halawa siblings to meet Egyptian prosecutor
The four Irish citizens are said to be in good health

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/halawa-siblings-to-meet-egyptian-prosecutor-1.1498114

Where's the link to say he's been beaten to hell?

There isn't one...could have been 'beaten to hell'...

Boombastic

Leftist wrote: »

why not? explain it.

In order for it to be comparable it would have to be the Irish person protesting in Canada or Canadians protesting in Ireland.

qaf

I wonder what passports they used to enter the country? I was always under the assumption that the passport you used during entry determined the responsibility that the government has towards a prisoner. If they entered on Egyptian passports then Egypt does not have to give access to Irish diplomats, while the opposite is true if they entered with Irish passports.

Micky Dolenz

qaf wrote: »

I wonder what passports they used to enter the country? I was always under the assumption that the passport you used during entry determined the responsibility that the government has towards a prisoner. If they entered on Egyptian passports then Egypt does not have to give access to Irish diplomats, while the opposite is true if they entered with Irish passports.

That is correct.

Pumpkinseeds

It's a terrible thing, but I can't really muster any great sympathy. The general advice is for tourists to stay away from there. Have they been living under a rock and missed all the media coverage of whats been happening in Egypt or did they just think that they were 'special' and wouldn't get caught up in it?

I'm sure I'll be criticised for my opinion, after all it is AH and anyone who suggests that people have a little cop on and take a bit of personal responsibilty for their own safety is labelled as a bigot or xenophobe or whatever. Either way a lot of money will be spent trying to negotiate the release of those people, who really should have known better than to go there in the first place.

Sunglasses Ron

Leftist wrote: »

If they were white, irish born citizens who were arrested in a foreign state for participating in a peaceful process, they would be receiving a far different perspective from the same people who are suggesting they 'knew what they are getting into'

The difference in perspective is judged by these people entirely on ethnicity and race.

Bollocks. If Irish born white people were arrested while protesting in favour of Islamic fundamentalists in Egypt I would be equally suspicious of them. It is a bit like these people who find themselves in Guantanamo and claim that they were in the wilds of Afghanistan ether backpacking or doing charity work.

Boombastic

Leftist wrote: »

If they were white, irish born citizens who were arrested in a foreign state for participating in a peaceful process, they would be receiving a far different perspective from the same people who are suggesting they 'knew what they are getting into'

The difference in perspective is judged by these people entirely on ethnicity and race.

Michael Dwyer (24) from Tipperary, Bolivia's liberator didn't get much sympathy

http://www.herald.ie/news/plea-for-justice-over-irishman-killed-in-bolivia-28005296.html

Son Of A Vidic

Boombastic wrote: »

were they out protesting at the bank bail outs or any other Irish issue?

Were you? Or did you just look after the keyboard side of the protests?

Duck's hoop

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

It's a terrible thing, but I can't really muster any great sympathy. The general advice is for tourists to stay away from there. Have they been living under a rock and missed all the media coverage of whats been happening in Egypt or did they just think that they were 'special' and wouldn't get caught up in it?

I'm sure I'll be criticised for my opinion, after all it is AH and anyone who suggests that people have a little cop on and take a bit of personal responsibilty for their own safety is labelled as a bigot or xenophobe or whatever. Either way a lot of money will be spent trying to negotiate the release of those people, who really should have known better than to go there in the first place.

There have been package hols flying out there up to a few days ago. But that's beside the point. By your reasoning, bringing it to its natural conclusion, we should all stay home under the bed.

I support people's right to protest without being murdered or tortured as a consequence. To roll your eyes, tutting at their lack of 'cop on' is really to condone the actions of the Egyptian security forces.

Boombastic

Duck's hoop wrote: »

There have been package hols flying out there up to a few days ago. But that's beside the point. By your reasoning, bringing it to its natural conclusion, we should all stay home under the bed.

I support people's right to protest without being murdered or tortured as a consequence. To roll your eyes, tutting at their lack of 'cop on' is really to condone the actions of the Egyptian security forces.

No it's being realistic. There is unrest and strong possibility you might get shot or beaten. Would you let you child holiday there?

gobnaitolunacy

Duck's hoop wrote: »

There have been package hols flying out there up to a few days ago. But that's beside the point. By your reasoning, bringing it to its natural conclusion, we should all stay home under the bed.

I support people's right to protest without being murdered or tortured as a consequence. To roll your eyes, tutting at their lack of 'cop on' is really to condone the actions of the Egyptian security forces.

Ok, would YOU demonstrate there?