Irish teenager is 'being beaten to hell' in a Cairo prison

seamus

The Irish government is traditionally supportive of Irish citizens taking part in peaceful demonstrations overseas, so I would expect the Minister for Foreign Affairs to speak to the Egyptian embassy to discuss the release and repatriation of these kids.

Arrogance is probably what got them caught up in this. In the west if you attend a protest, about the worst you can expect to happen if your fellow protesters get violent is that you get a smack across the head, a spray of a water cannon, and maybe a night in a cell. Go protesting in the middle east and you can find yourself dead or locked up in medieval prisons for a long time without trial.

Boombastic

seamus wrote: »

......... Go protesting in the middle east and you can find yourself dead or locked up in medieval prisons for a long time without trial.

Knowing this, would you allow your 17 year old to holiday there?

Micky Dolenz

Interesting read here. Have a mate out there working and he is saying things are getting really really bad.

Seachmall

Boombastic wrote: »

Knowing this, would you allow your 17 year old to holiday there?

What has this got to do with anything?

Boombastic

Seachmall wrote: »

What has this got to do with anything?

check out the title of the thread and the OP! :eek:

Leftist

Boombastic wrote: »

So it's not like coming home from Canada and attending a protest in Ireland

why not? explain it.

seamus

Boombastic wrote: »

Knowing this, would you allow your 17 year old to holiday there?

If I was Egyptian, possibly. This violence is relatively new; Morsi was removed peacefully and things were relatively stable. Presumably the family went to Egypt at this time. How were they to know that this crap would kick off in the last week?

You're also looking at it from an outsider's point of view. Imagine you were from Belfast and emigrated to the U.S. in the 1960's. Your children hit their late teens in the early 80s and you send them to Belfast to meet their family (and yours) and get a sense of your culture.
Your American neighbours are calling you mad for sending your children into a warzone.

Who's right?

Seachmall

Boombastic wrote: »

check out the title of the thread and the OP! :eek:

Oops, my bad.

granturismo

Halawa siblings to meet Egyptian prosecutor
The four Irish citizens are said to be in good health

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/halawa-siblings-to-meet-egyptian-prosecutor-1.1498114

Where's the link to say he's been beaten to hell?

gobnaitolunacy

granturismo wrote: »

Halawa siblings to meet Egyptian prosecutor
The four Irish citizens are said to be in good health

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/halawa-siblings-to-meet-egyptian-prosecutor-1.1498114

Where's the link to say he's been beaten to hell?

There isn't one...could have been 'beaten to hell'...

Boombastic

Leftist wrote: »

why not? explain it.

In order for it to be comparable it would have to be the Irish person protesting in Canada or Canadians protesting in Ireland.

qaf

I wonder what passports they used to enter the country? I was always under the assumption that the passport you used during entry determined the responsibility that the government has towards a prisoner. If they entered on Egyptian passports then Egypt does not have to give access to Irish diplomats, while the opposite is true if they entered with Irish passports.

Micky Dolenz

qaf wrote: »

I wonder what passports they used to enter the country? I was always under the assumption that the passport you used during entry determined the responsibility that the government has towards a prisoner. If they entered on Egyptian passports then Egypt does not have to give access to Irish diplomats, while the opposite is true if they entered with Irish passports.

That is correct.

Pumpkinseeds

It's a terrible thing, but I can't really muster any great sympathy. The general advice is for tourists to stay away from there. Have they been living under a rock and missed all the media coverage of whats been happening in Egypt or did they just think that they were 'special' and wouldn't get caught up in it?

I'm sure I'll be criticised for my opinion, after all it is AH and anyone who suggests that people have a little cop on and take a bit of personal responsibilty for their own safety is labelled as a bigot or xenophobe or whatever. Either way a lot of money will be spent trying to negotiate the release of those people, who really should have known better than to go there in the first place.

Sunglasses Ron

Leftist wrote: »

If they were white, irish born citizens who were arrested in a foreign state for participating in a peaceful process, they would be receiving a far different perspective from the same people who are suggesting they 'knew what they are getting into'

The difference in perspective is judged by these people entirely on ethnicity and race.

Bollocks. If Irish born white people were arrested while protesting in favour of Islamic fundamentalists in Egypt I would be equally suspicious of them. It is a bit like these people who find themselves in Guantanamo and claim that they were in the wilds of Afghanistan ether backpacking or doing charity work.

Boombastic

Leftist wrote: »

If they were white, irish born citizens who were arrested in a foreign state for participating in a peaceful process, they would be receiving a far different perspective from the same people who are suggesting they 'knew what they are getting into'

The difference in perspective is judged by these people entirely on ethnicity and race.

Michael Dwyer (24) from Tipperary, Bolivia's liberator didn't get much sympathy

http://www.herald.ie/news/plea-for-justice-over-irishman-killed-in-bolivia-28005296.html

Son Of A Vidic

Boombastic wrote: »

were they out protesting at the bank bail outs or any other Irish issue?

Were you? Or did you just look after the keyboard side of the protests?

Duck's hoop

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

It's a terrible thing, but I can't really muster any great sympathy. The general advice is for tourists to stay away from there. Have they been living under a rock and missed all the media coverage of whats been happening in Egypt or did they just think that they were 'special' and wouldn't get caught up in it?

I'm sure I'll be criticised for my opinion, after all it is AH and anyone who suggests that people have a little cop on and take a bit of personal responsibilty for their own safety is labelled as a bigot or xenophobe or whatever. Either way a lot of money will be spent trying to negotiate the release of those people, who really should have known better than to go there in the first place.

There have been package hols flying out there up to a few days ago. But that's beside the point. By your reasoning, bringing it to its natural conclusion, we should all stay home under the bed.

I support people's right to protest without being murdered or tortured as a consequence. To roll your eyes, tutting at their lack of 'cop on' is really to condone the actions of the Egyptian security forces.

Boombastic

Duck's hoop wrote: »

There have been package hols flying out there up to a few days ago. But that's beside the point. By your reasoning, bringing it to its natural conclusion, we should all stay home under the bed.

I support people's right to protest without being murdered or tortured as a consequence. To roll your eyes, tutting at their lack of 'cop on' is really to condone the actions of the Egyptian security forces.

No it's being realistic. There is unrest and strong possibility you might get shot or beaten. Would you let you child holiday there?

gobnaitolunacy

Duck's hoop wrote: »

There have been package hols flying out there up to a few days ago. But that's beside the point. By your reasoning, bringing it to its natural conclusion, we should all stay home under the bed.

I support people's right to protest without being murdered or tortured as a consequence. To roll your eyes, tutting at their lack of 'cop on' is really to condone the actions of the Egyptian security forces.

Ok, would YOU demonstrate there?

Red Pepper

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Demonstrating....well, looking for trouble in other words.

You must live a very sterile life.

Leftist

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Bollocks. If Irish born white people were arrested while protesting in favour of Islamic fundamentalists in Egypt I would be equally suspicious of them. It is a bit like these people who find themselves in Guantanamo and claim that they were in the wilds of Afghanistan ether backpacking or doing charity work.

Yeah, those people who travelled to afghanistan, a war zone for the past 11years are teh same as people who went to Egypt which has descended into violent counter-protest in the past few weeks.

Exactly like that.

If a hardline catholic was protesting in northern ireland in the 1960s would you view it the same way as a muslim protesting in egypt in 2013?

Duck's hoop

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

It is a bit like these people who find themselves in Guantanamo and claim that they were in the wilds of Afghanistan ether backpacking or doing charity work.

And for that they should definitely forget all about the Geneva Convention, deny them the most basic human rights, and throw in some water boarding for good measure.

Alternatively they might be 'extraordinarily rendered' to somewhere like, say, Egypt. For proper torture.

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

Are they Irish or Egyptian?

Tricky one for the Irish Gov - apparently 4 of their citizens but I don't think they want to rock the boat, we love our neutrality and all !!

We'll give Barack a buzz, and see what he wants us to do.

gobnaitolunacy

Red Pepper wrote: »

You must live a very sterile life.

And I suppose you holiday in Afghanistan?

Pumpkinseeds

Duck's hoop wrote: »

There have been package hols flying out there up to a few days ago. But that's beside the point. By your reasoning, bringing it to its natural conclusion, we should all stay home under the bed.

I support people's right to protest without being murdered or tortured as a consequence. To roll your eyes, tutting at their lack of 'cop on' is really to condone the actions of the Egyptian security forces.

Whoa there Nelly, you're getting your panties in a bunch there. A little basic common sense would have prevented them getting themselves into their current predicament. Bloody privileged fools getting themselves embroiled in something they shouldn't have. Their time would have been better spent doing something practical to help those caught up in the whole sordid mess. I think you need to learn the difference between personal responsibility and hiding under the bed. I didn't roll my eyes in my original post but hey don't let that spoil your rant:rolleyes::p

Nodin

Boombastic wrote: »

So it's not like coming home from Canada and attending a protest in Ireland

...why?

Boombastic

Nodin wrote: »

...why?

Keep up Nodin, I answered that in Post #42

partyatmygaff

Seachmall wrote: »

A 16 year old risking his life to protest a murderous regime and promote democracy is admirable in my books.

Much better than a 16 year old downing a few cans of Dutch and getting pissed around town.

I say the government should do everything they can to bring him home.

Spare us, he's no freedom fighter. By all means, bring him and his family safely home but only out of common decency and not from some false belief that he's a freedom fighter defending good in the face of evil.

Neither party is innocent but the Muslim Brotherhood are scum and i'm astounded that anyone could support them in any manner. These are the people that brought ruin to their country and tried to bring it back to the Middle Ages with Sharia Law all so they can make their own little Islamic Empire across the Middle East and control the people through religion.

These are the people who'd kill indiscriminately, burn churches and then have the cheek to justify and support it in Arabic to their supporters and treat the west as retards who'll lap up their propaganda. Case in point... from a few days ago on the topic of the church attacks.

A bit of background, well before any of these recent events one of their leaders openly threatened Christians for daring to protest against the new Sharia-heavy constitution.

Fast forward to the present and check this out.

The lovey-dovey "all we want is peace, help us we're victims" message intended for the west.
http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=31246

And now the real message intended for the people of Egypt and their supporters.
https://www.facebook.com/FJ.Helwan/posts/516124478472316
Translated:

The Pope of the Church was involved in removing the first elected Islamist president
The Pope of the Church accuses Sharia Law of being primitive (literal: accused it of being retarded) and outdated
The Pope sponsors Black Bloc groups to (literal: act as thugs), create chaos and besiege and storm mosques.
The Pope instructed the Copts (Christians) to take part in the 30th June protests to depose Egypt's first elected Islamist president
The Pope objects to articles in the constitution proclaiming Islamic identity and withdrew from the assembly
The Pope was the first to support Sisi in the killing of Muslims and the outcome of that mandate is the 500 who died today.
The Pope sent a memo to the new assembly (who'll write the constitution) asking them to abolish/exclude Sharia-related articles.

After all this, people ask why do they burn churches?

Disclaimer
Burning places of worship is an offence but for the Church to adopt a war against Islam and Muslims is an even greater offense.

Every action has its reaction.

donutheadhomer

Boombastic wrote: »

Ibrihim was arrested on Saturday along with his sisters Omaima, 20, Fatima, 22, and Somaia, 27.
He completed his school leaving certificate before the summer holiday, and was due to hear back from the universities he applied to today.
His father, Sheikh Hussein Halawa - the imam of Ireland's largest mosque - has appealed for the Irish Government to act quickly to free his children from detention.
Ms Halawa said she was worried her siblings would be killed, telling RTE Radio: 'There is no difference now between anyone. They can kill anyone.

..................................

She admitted that her siblings had been involved in protests, but insisted that they were peaceful, adding: 'The people want democracy and other people want a coup. People in Egypt want democracy.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2396993/Irish-teen-Ibrihim-Halawa-caught-Egypt-protests-beaten-hell-Cairo-prison.html#ixzz2cQ5eCF00
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook











A young man, who should be out celebrating his acceptance offers in to college, is in a Cario prison. While perhaps every effort should be made to help these Irish citizens, but questions should be raised over what they were doing there.

Would you send you young teenager/son/brother on holiday to an unstable region and bring them to a protest which was likely to turn violent?


What was a 17 year old who was born and raised in Ireland doing at a protest in Egypt, is there a radical element here in Ireland and what measures are been taken to counteract this? This is not the first teenager who has gone to fight a foreign cause.

If they were not radicalized/brainwashed before they went, they will be by the time they get back. Did the parents not move to Ireland for a better life, were they out protesting at the bank bail outs or any other Irish issue?

imagine that