Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Jarjohn

Blown out of it plain and simple. Hunger was there for KK today and in fairness they know how to put away a team when on top. I had my hand over my eyes at times in 2nd half as we could have easily conceded 3 more goals. What struck me today was the over reliance on handpassing ( which was piss poor at times) and the amount of short passes from the stick. Now by short passes I mean less than 10 yards, and the player receiving was in a worse position than the passer. Fast, low, ripped balls from h/b and midfield to forwards have to be played to give a forward a chance. Its basic stuff and I saw very little of that today. Bombing high balls wide, short and to a spare KK back not good enough. there were plenty of occasions we had possession on h/b and midfield and took wrong option time after time. Should have been corrected by management. Hits the confidence but next game is now the focus. A game Waterford can win but it is 50/50 imo.

chinguetti

Looking at today, you'ld wonder if the players understand what the management's game plan is and have the management explained it to the players. KK seemed to have a spare man in each line so it was hard to know where the WD corner forwards were doing and at times they didn't look to sure themsevles.

Then again there's only so much the management can do (as the previous manager said last year) but some of the decision making from the players on the pitch was daft. Hitting a high ball into a one man forward line against three backs, the nonsense of handpassing the ball 5-10 yards to a player in a worse position and the puck out strategy of hitting balls over the sidelines.

The second half was as bad as Waterford have played since September 2008. It might be no harm that they play on Saturday in Croker or Parnell Park, surviving to play in 1A next year will paper over the huge cracks that are there and cod people into thinking it will all be sorted come the summer. On today's viewing, the talk about fundraising for a training week to Portugal is focusing on the wrong thing and they should pay more attention to the hurling.

avonmore

sid wallace wrote: »

I agree with this. I'd be all for playing a one man full forward line if it meant the back line didn't leak goals. But KK had loose men all over the forward line in the second half and it wasn't apparent where our loose men were or what their role was. In the same vein, even if you go with that plan how could you come to the conclusion that Brian O Sullivan should be the one full forward. He was brushed aside at every turn and the ball came back with interest, time and again. You could argue that he was given poor ball but this is KK we are playing you get what you get and you battle for it.

Finally I thought it odd that the management were back on the field well before the players at half time. What was that all about?

There are a few untouchables where Derek is concerned.

If I was Jamie Barron or Aussie Gleeson today I would be extremely pissed off with being taken off before some of my comrades.

Much the same happened in Ennis last Sunday.

It seems there are some lads on the short list to be substituted before others, no matter how those others perform.

I gave Derek the benefit after the Tipp match, but it seems he has tunnel vision towards the guys he has worked with before.

avonmore

Slobbery wrote: »

Ya we do seem to be lacking pace alright, at the same time inter county hurlers aren't gym shy.
I don't actually buy that some of our lads are being held back because of gym work they did as teens... Of course other players there age from other counties were doing the same.

Conor Lehane added 5kilos of muscle last year, he didn't do that hitting ball off the wall. You mention Luke o Farrell, do you think he is the type of player we are missing from our team? Cork supporters see him as a huge frustration, he won't take on a man and is constantly striking moving backwards, he even was doing it for Middleton this year

I agree we may lack pace, but you can't blame that on the players themselves, Christ we can't have a go at them for everything

Just to emphasis, I was referring to unsupervised gym work when lads were in their middle teens onwards.

I was witness to much of it and it was ridiculous.

Unfortunately, the same lads are bearing the fruits of it now, despite being told they were doing themselves harm at the time.

I'll leave it at that for now.

tomwaterford

Slobbery wrote: »

I wouldn't be too concerned about bulk at this time of year, before you move on to plyometrics or explosive power you first have to build the muscle, the hypertrophy phase, than you can change the routine to maximise explosive power which the lads will have done come championship. Compound gym exercises will also increase flexibility. I couldn't imagine that they are doing these incorrectly or unsupervised.

To the match where to start. Enough depression so going to leave that to others.

Austin Glesson got his first start, hopefully the dawn of a great career in the blue and white. I am sure some great things to come.

Shane fives again played well hopefully his brother daragh is back soon and we can send Shane I sul into the forwards and have a bit more presence up there.

Ray Barry scored 4 great points, in the last two games it looks like Brian o Sullivan remembered where the posts are. Shan was injured he will be worth a few points to us too.

Some of the lads worked very hard.

We are light, hopefully summer hurling will suit us better.

Hopefully we have a full fit panel to select from come championship and we will be ok

ok...so we'll just skip over another 20 point defeat

nonsense like that steve Staunton used to come out with when he was in charge of ireland

your not connected management in anyway:rolleyes::rolleyes:
patience the way they are going this time next year they will be getting relegated out if 1B

all the talk when McGrath took over is how he was going to drive this team forward,new dawn, new game plan etc (would really like to see this gameplan btw)
well if this year is going forward-Christ id hate to see them going backwards:mad::mad::mad:

Motivator

tomwaterford wrote: »

ok...so we'll just skip over another 20 point defeat

nonsense like that steve Staunton used to come out with when he was in charge

your not connected management in anyway:rolleyes::rolleyes:
patience the way they are going this time next year they will be getting relegated out if 1B

all the talk when McGrath took over is how he was going to drive this team forward,new dawn, new game plan etc (would really like to see this gameplan btw)
well if this year is going forward-Christ id hate to see them going backwards:mad::mad::mad:

But you have some people making excuses saying the county is in transition over the next year or 2. Complete rubbish if you ask me, Ryan would have been a hero if Waterford had beaten Kilkenny in Thurles. 5 weeks later he was out the door. The players themselves said they wouldn't progress with Ryan in charge. If this is what we're left with it's going to be a short & very frustrating summer.

tomwaterford

Motivator wrote: »

But you have some people making excuses saying the county is in transition over the next year or 2. Complete rubbish if you ask me, Ryan would have been a hero if Waterford had beaten Kilkenny in Thurles. 5 weeks later he was out the door. The players themselves said they wouldn't progress with Ryan in charge. If this is what we're left with it's going to be a short & very frustrating summer.

ya that's its exactly... remember the slating he got a start of his reign (a lot of it justified at the time tbf)
I was really excited leaving thurles last year...after matching Kilkenny for long streths and could have beat them...really taught they would push on under him this year and challenge for the league and possibly reach all Ireland semi etc (wasn't expecting all Irelands this year or anything:cool: )
he is not coming back I know but...you'd to have a long hard look at where Waterford are heading...any 1B would have beat them today

would these people making excuses for a management who appear out of there depth be as quick to skip over 20 point defeats two weeks in a row under ryan or fitzgerald...I certaintly wouldn't TBH
they are going down a bad route passing it off as learning experience,it setting a dangerous precident to accept/pass off heavy defeats

Slobbery

tomwaterford wrote: »

ok...so we'll just skip over another 20 point defeat

nonsense like that steve Staunton used to come out with when he was in charge

your not connected management in anyway:rolleyes::rolleyes:
patience the way they are going this time next year they will be getting relegated out if 1B

all the talk when McGrath took over is how he was going to drive this team forward,new dawn, new game plan etc (would really like to see this gameplan btw)
well if this year is going forward-Christ id hate to see them going backwards:mad::mad::mad:

Ok the team is crap, the management are clueless, let's take a straw poll, collet up the 15 most outraged supporters after today's result, stitch a few jerseys together so they can fit them and send them out to represent the county with pride. Roll on 2015 when we can take our rightful place against the kildares of the hurling world... Better?

Sorry for trying to be positive we aren't relegated yet!
We can still come out fighting with our backs to the wall

tomwaterford

Slobbery wrote: »

Ok the team is crap, the management are clueless, let's take a straw poll, collet up the 15 most outraged supporters after today's result, stitch a few jerseys together so they can fit them and send them out to represent the county with pride. Roll on 2015 when we can take our rightful place against the kildares of the hurling world... Better?

Sorry for trying to be positive we aren't relegated yet!
We can still come out fighting with our backs to the wall

do you in all reality see any way they can beat Dublin???
how you can be positive after two consectutive twenty point defeats is quite baffling in the extreme

I do admire you hopeful nature that some how magically we are going to get better in the summer with firmer ground:rolleyes: (this after 3 relatively dry weeks which could nearly pass as summer some years)
take a look at the Dublin and Waterford performance today and point out where you think Waterford would come out on top (even breakeven in 4 positions would be v.positive)

on a positive point...taught the 2 mahonys were good...esp philip
taught ray barry did well...and Donnelly was ok when he came :)

jack o shea

why was michael ryan got rid of? at least he had ye fired up and playing with passion,what ye should have done was brought in a good experienced coach to work with ryan perhaps?

tomwaterford

jack o shea wrote: »

why was michael ryan got rid of? at least he had ye fired up and playing with passion,what ye should have done was brought in a good experienced coach to work with ryan perhaps?

it depends who you ask...seeminly the players wanted change and see how that turned out:rolleyes::rolleyes:
or it was the age old city/east v west division as some would suggest (geos both ways though think NI only no murders:pac::pac:)

in interview micheal ryan gave he suggested that to work on hurling skills...but this was after the vote by all accounts
a very badly treated man IMO...he did v.well with players in his charge IMO

this looking to be a disappointing three years...doubt they make it up next year...unless some drastic happens over the next week and the stars align to beat dublin

Hslaw

tomwaterford wrote: »

ok...so we'll just skip over another 20 point defeat

nonsense like that steve Staunton used to come out with when he was in charge of ireland

your not connected management in anyway:rolleyes::rolleyes:
patience the way they are going this time next year they will be getting relegated out if 1B

all the talk when McGrath took over is how he was going to drive this team forward,new dawn, new game plan etc (would really like to see this gameplan btw)
well if this year is going forward-Christ id hate to see them going backwards:mad::mad::mad:

A new game plan. He has yet to come up with a single game plan other than starting 15 players.

Slobbery

tomwaterford wrote: »

do you in all reality see any way they can beat Dublin???
how you can be positive after two consectutive twenty point defeats is quite baffling in the extreme

I do admire you hopeful nature that some how magically we are going to get better in the summer with firmer ground:rolleyes: (this after 3 relatively dry weeks which could nearly pass as summer some years)
take a look at the Dublin and Waterford performance today and point out where you think Waterford would come out on top (even breakeven in 4 positions would be v.positive)

on a positive point...taught the 2 mahonys were good...esp philip
taught ray barry did well...and Donnelly was ok when he came :)

I have been going to Waterford games since the early 80's, being hopeful going into games is hard wired, I have left games happy we kept within two scores of the opposition with the light at the end of the tunnel being the performance of a young tony Browne etc.

So it's not quite the lowest ebb for me, so no banging on tables or gnashing of teeth just yet.

Look as I see it, it is only the league, who knows what training teams are doing.

This year I think in championship we will beat the teams we beat last year, put it up to everyone else, maybe get a result against one of the top teams but will exit at a quarter final at best. Maybe it ain't progress but we don't have the forwards, we will rely on mahony for frees, but not much else from anyone else - we no longer have marquee or once in a generation type forwards so until one comes from the pack or a new one emerges that will be where we stand.

From 1-9 we are as good as anyone but don't have guys that can win ball on a regular basis never mind score.

So what's the point in beating them up over losing badly in the home of the all Ireland's champions or to Kilkenny in a clutch game in nowlan park.

Relegation to 1b might do them now harm, build a bit of confidence and peak for championship (see Limerick 2013)

Motivator

Slobbery wrote: »

Ok the team is crap, the management are clueless, let's take a straw poll, collet up the 15 most outraged supporters after today's result, stitch a few jerseys together so they can fit them and send them out to represent the county with pride. Roll on 2015 when we can take our rightful place against the kildares of the hurling world... Better?

Sorry for trying to be positive we aren't relegated yet!
We can still come out fighting with our backs to the wall

But we're not intercounty hurlers? Why would you send 15 supporters out? That's a bit of a stupid statement. I'll tell you one thing though, there was zero pride in that performance today regardless of what you can say.

Jarjohn

Slobbery wrote: »

From 1-9 we are as good as anyone

No we are not

Slobbery

Motivator wrote: »

But we're not intercounty hurlers? Why would you send 15 supporters out? That's a bit of a stupid statement. I'll tell you one thing though, there was zero pride in that performance today regardless of what you can say.

Do you know what you are dead right, my plan was flawed from the start thanks for pointing it out.

Supporters was a stupid idea of course we should send out a selection of farm animals instead

tomwaterford

Slobbery wrote: »

I have been going to Waterford games since the early 80's, being hopeful going into games is hard wired, I have left games happy we kept within two scores of the opposition with the light at the end of the tunnel being the performance of a young tony Browne etc.

So it's not quite the lowest ebb for me, so no banging on tables or gnashing of teeth just yet.

Look as I see it, it is only the league, who knows what training teams are doing.

This year I think in championship we will beat the teams we beat last year, put it up to everyone else, maybe get a result against one of the top teams but will exit at a quarter final at best. Maybe it ain't progress but we don't have the forwards, we will rely on mahony for frees, but not much else from anyone else - we no longer have marquee or once in a generation type forwards so until one comes from the pack or a new one emerges that will be where we stand.

From 1-9 we are as good as anyone but don't have guys that can win ball on a regular basis never mind score.

So what's the point in beating them up over losing badly in the home of the all Ireland's champions or to Kilkenny in a clutch game in nowlan park.

Relegation to 1b might do them now harm, build a bit of confidence and peak for championship (see Limerick 2013)

I appriate the hopeful sentiment you'd have if you are Waterford fan:cool:

but jesus going to Kilkenny and there fans openly laughing at Waterford-I taught them days were gone:mad:

you wont find anyone to disagree with the points you make in relation to lack of ball winners upfrount coming back to haunt them...

but surly you couldn't be happy conceding 9-40 over last two games which clare eased off in 1st and if kilk put there mind to it could have easily got more goals today

relegation is a backwards step esp when last year they really looked like a team that with a bit of skills coaching and improved shooting looked to be on the verge of something exciting
they don't even create chances this year nomind miss them...though mahony looks to be getting better every game esp his frees

as for limerick last year they won a munster final at home v cork,who had their best forward sent off very harshly at a crutial time of the match!!

Slobbery

Jarjohn wrote: »

No we are not

Actually we aren't, it's a diplomatic way of saying our forward line isn't up to it and is our biggest worry, our back line would hold it's own if every single ball they cleared wasn't sent back with interest

Motivator

Slobbery wrote: »

Do you know what you are dead right, my plan was flawed from the start thanks for pointing it out.

Supporters was a stupid idea of course we should send out a selection of farm animals instead

I was merely pointing out the sheer stupidity of your statement.

Slobbery

tomwaterford wrote: »

I appriate the hopeful sentiment you'd have if you are Waterford fan:cool:

but jesus going to Kilkenny and there fans openly laughing at Waterford-I taught them days were gone:mad:

you wont find anyone to disagree with the points you make in relation to lack of ball winners upfrount coming back to haunt them...

but surly you couldn't be happy conceding 9-40 over last two games which clare eased off in 1st and if kilk put there mind to it could have easily got more goals today

relegation is a backwards step esp when last year they really looked like a team that with a bit of skills coaching and improved shooting looked to be on the verge of something exciting
they don't even create chances this year nomind miss them...though mahony looks to be getting better every game esp his frees

as for limerick last year they won a munster final at home v cork,who had their best forward sent off very harshly at a crutial time of the match!!

Who cares about Kilkenny, let them laugh away, fact is if you are worried about getting lip of them at matches you may as well stop going because they will have the upper hand for a while yet.

How could anyone be happy with that? Did I say I was happy? No I said that there was going to be so much depression I would pick out a few positives, what's wrong with that?
If I got to wound up over defeats in hurling matches I would have stopped going when I was ten.

Ok the second half today was the longest 35 minutes of my life, it was horrible, I couldn't believe at the 60th minute I had to sit through another ten minutes, the words **** sake not again and pathetic ran around my mind.....
I consoled myself with the fact it wasn't championship tried to come up with a few positives and made a few realistic points about the state of the players forwards etc and what we can expect them to achieve.

Slobbery

Motivator wrote: »

I was merely pointing out the sheer stupidity of your statement.

I was merely pointing out the sheer stupidity of you taking my statement seriously

Deise Hurler

Hslaw wrote: »

A new game plan. He has yet to come up with a single game plan other than starting 15 players.

Hopefully there can be some positives taken from getting such a hiding today in that the management will finally realise that these stupid tactics that they have been using all league are nowt but a load of nonsense.

Hopefully we can now go back to playing 15 v 15 for the remainder of the year. When we played 15 v 15 today we matched Kilkenny but got destroyed when we reverted to those stupid tactics.

Hopefully we revert to a game of fast ball into the forwards instead of our present short passing, handpassing and over elaborating.

Hopefully management realise the value of Seamus Pendergast to the team and leave him in full forward. Seamus has been excellent this year but must have be very frustrated to be dropped for Brian O Sullivan, who is just not up to the standard required for intercouny.

Hurling is a simple game but at the moment we are over complicating things. We are as good as any team in the country from 1 to 9. With the right mix of ball winners and skilful players in the forwards then there is no reason why 2014 can't be a good year. Provided we play 15 v 15 tactics of course.

hurler on de ditch

Slobbery wrote: »

I have been going to Waterford games since the early 80's, being hopeful going into games is hard wired, I have left games happy we kept within two scores of the opposition with the light at the end of the tunnel being the performance of a young tony Browne etc.

So it's not quite the lowest ebb for me, so no banging on tables or gnashing of teeth just yet.

Look as I see it, it is only the league, who knows what training teams are doing.

This year I think in championship we will beat the teams we beat last year, put it up to everyone else, maybe get a result against one of the top teams but will exit at a quarter final at best. Maybe it ain't progress but we don't have the forwards, we will rely on mahony for frees, but not much else from anyone else - we no longer have marquee or once in a generation type forwards so until one comes from the pack or a new one emerges that will be where we stand.

From 1-9 we are as good as anyone but don't have guys that can win ball on a regular basis never mind score.

So what's the point in beating them up over losing badly in the home of the all Ireland's champions or to Kilkenny in a clutch game in nowlan park.

Relegation to 1b might do them now harm, build a bit of confidence and peak for championship (see Limerick 2013)

1_9 ok you say 9-40 conceded in last two games ,seems like watching games since the eighties has done you alot of harm

hurler on de ditch

Slobbery wrote: »

Actually we aren't, it's a diplomatic way of saying our forward line isn't up to it and is our biggest worry, our back line would hold it's own if every single ball they cleared wasn't sent back with interest

or every single ball they dont clear ,tipping and hand passing ,,oh for a center back who can actually win a ball and then clear it ,

culbaire

Deise Hurler wrote: »

Hopefully there can be some positives taken from getting such a hiding today in that the management will finally realise that these stupid tactics that they have been using all league are nowt but a load of nonsense.

Hopefully we can now go back to playing 15 v 15 for the remainder of the year. When we played 15 v 15 today we matched Kilkenny but got destroyed when we reverted to those stupid tactics.

Hopefully we revert to a game of fast ball into the forwards instead of our present short passing, handpassing and over elaborating.

Hopefully management realise the value of Seamus Pendergast to the team and leave him in full forward. Seamus has been excellent this year but must have be very frustrated to be dropped for Brian O Sullivan, who is just not up to the standard required for intercouny.

Hurling is a simple game but at the moment we are over complicating things. We are as good as any team in the country from 1 to 9. With the right mix of ball winners and skilful players in the forwards then there is no reason why 2014 can't be a good year. Provided we play 15 v 15 tactics of course.

We are not as good as any team in the country from 1-9. There are huge holes in our backline and indeed midfield is nothing to write home about either. You are making a sweeping assumption there.

Ropaire

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

1_9 ok you say 9-40 conceded in last two games ,seems like watching games since the eighties has done you alot of harm

When defence are passin 5 yards and running into contact instead of sending on fast ball they're going to struggle. Anything they do clear goes up to Brian o'sullivan on his own vs 3 defenders and ends up comimg back with interest, we have no real organisation or gameplan so of course we're going to struggle. After the Clare game someone said Derek is great cos he takes inspiration from other sports, it looked today like we were trying to play a cross between rugby and tica taka soccer, it defo wasn't hurling though and with this management team in place i think we're proper ****ed!

avonmore

Slobbery wrote: »

From 1-9 we are as good as anyone

Are you on drugs?

I am fed up with listening to this rubbish.

We are not as good any anyone from 1-9.

In the muck and the s**t in Walsh Park, maybe. Many of our backs would need a half acre to turn in.

We were destroyed in every position from 1-9 today.

The usual tripe is being be trotted out again.

Lazy statements, like last Sunday's, trying to defend our backs and centre field, i.e. the forwards cannot win ball.

Ok, we have issues winning ball in our forward line but that is not the reason we have conceded something like 9-40 in two games.


It's a two way street by the way. How many aimless high balls were skied out of our defence today, even when we had time to pick out guys.

We couldn't even defend today from Kilkenny puck outs.

Jesus, four of our backs going for one long high direct ball into our half back line with a loose Kilkenny forward standing waiting behind them to just get possession and bury a goal.

It was juvenile stuff back there today. There wasn't one of our guys 1-9, man for man, able to win his position.

We were destroyed for pace and hurling back there and it will continue as the ground hardens up.

We didn't even show that we knew how to defend today.

None of our guys seemed to know what their job was.

The thing is, I could take being beaten if I could see what we were even trying to do.

Unfortunately, this is as aimless and bereft, both individually and as a unit as I have ever seen a Waterford team.

Tramore84

The real disappointment for me was not the poor performance - but the complete capitulation ( in the words of Donal of Cusack on league Sunday) in the second half. This was not a vintage Kilkenny performance - they did not score in the first 15 mins. KK were able to consistently break tackles (I'm thinking eoin Larkin in particular) whilst Waterford players failed to match their opponent s intensity. Waterford played as badly as I have seen in a long time and a lot of players including the more experienced ones gave up with at least 25 mins left to play. That cannot and will not ever be good enough again. I did not hear or see any player talk to or encourage one another in those last 20 mins - that should be the first job of any experienced player when the sh*t is hitting the fan but I did not see or hear this. Very disappointing and the fans who went to the game deserved better.

Straight Talker

That was a bad beating but this is a young team so there will be bumps along the way.When Kilkenny are in that sort of mood no one can live with them.Of course Dublin will probably be favourites for the relegation play off but i think Waterford will surpise them.I also think Waterford will be much tougher opposition for Cork in the first round of the championship than what some people may think.Cork achieved their target of promotion but were not motoring that well and we needed Limerick to slip up against Offaly.This result could actually be the making of Waterford.

robopaddy

I think after the last 2 weekends the waterford public are within their rights to question the sacking of michael ryan.

All ill say is I hope to christ this deluded manager scraps the idea of a training camp in portugal. They need to stay at home concentrate on getting the basics right first and foremost. Its all well and good calling supporters meetings and impressing everyone with your in depth analysis and passion but then go out on a sunday looking like a group of lost sheep. Its brazen enough asking supporters to fork out their hard earned cash to pay for a camp in portugal in the current environment without the shambles of the past 2 weeks