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Improvements that are needed in GAA

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,998 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    All this talk to restricting hand passes etc.

    Is anyone thinking of the ref ?

    They have enough on their plate as it is never mind having to count hand passes as well.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    All this talk to restricting hand passes etc.

    Is anyone thinking of the ref ?

    They have enough on their plate as it is never mind having to count hand passes as well.
    If they can’t count to Three they might be a bit brain deficient !


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭harpsman


    keane2097 wrote: »
    It's an interesting idea. I'd be interested to see it trialled.

    My concern would be that I don't think there's much inherently wrong with handpassing, there's been great goals over the years that had plenty of them!



    The problem I'm sure we're all agreed is blanket defences, I worry that any type of restrictions on the team that has the ball will only make the blanket more successful.

    In your scheme would you end up with teams of 800m athletes running up and down taking 10 yard kick passes up to and around the Dubs?
    Yeah, it might end up looking a bit ugly, but like yourself id love to see these ideas trialled, maybe the 4/5 players in opposition half all the time-dont think either of these are hard to police.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭harpsman


    blinding wrote: »
    If they can’t count to Three they might be a bit brain deficient !
    Try reffing a game and keeping track of the number of handpasses


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    harpsman wrote: »
    Try reffing a game and keeping track of the number of handpasses
    1...2 ....3.....Kick forward .

    The rugby leagues refs count to six tackles the entire game .:eek:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,287 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    blinding wrote: »
    1...2 ....3.....Kick forward .

    The rugby leagues refs count to six tackles the entire game .:eek:

    It's hardly the same thing, the 6 tackles concept is basically the entire focal point/purpose of the game so obviously has to be counted by the ref.
    Your 3 handpasses idea is (whether its a good idea or not) basically a sideshow add-on to the current rules, so it's adding to the referees work.

    By the way am I right in saying that the ref now would have a triple count in his head during some phases? Player A handpasses to B who handpasses to C, who goes on a 30 metre run during which the ref is counting steps, alternating hops, and remembering that this is handpass #2?
    It seems ott to me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,998 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    What happens if a team in bearing down on goal and the most obvious play to score the goal is a hand pass

    But what if it's going to be the 4th hand pass - they can't use it

    The player in possession has to do something else.

    It's stupid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    blinding wrote: »
    1...2 ....3.....Kick forward .

    The rugby leagues refs count to six tackles the entire game .:eek:

    And while the ref is watching that the inside forwards are being hung by their entrails off the crossbar before the ball is being kicked in!

    Forcing the attacking team to kick suits the blanket defence. The goal is to force them to take a poor decision in the final third. If the rules do that for them already, all they have to do is sit and wait. It would actually make the blanket defence more effective.

    The idea of making forwards stay in their own half doesn't work either - what happens when their man goes forward? They cant follow him...

    One quite simple way would be to give a mark if the ball is kicked from outside the 45 and caught inside the 20. It might also offer an outlet for bigger players to get more gametime, who at the minute are being phased out of intercounty football.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    harpsman wrote: »
    Yeah, it might end up looking a bit ugly, but like yourself
    Jaysus thats harsh now harpsman :D


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    And while the ref is watching that the inside forwards are being hung by their entrails off the crossbar before the ball is being kicked in!

    Forcing the attacking team to kick suits the blanket defence. The goal is to force them to take a poor decision in the final third. If the rules do that for them already, all they have to do is sit and wait. It would actually make the blanket defence more effective.

    The idea of making forwards stay in their own half doesn't work either - what happens when their man goes forward? They cant follow him...

    One quite simple way would be to give a mark if the ball is kicked from outside the 45 and caught inside the 20. It might also offer an outlet for bigger players to get more gametime, who at the minute are being phased out of intercounty football.
    Thats well worth a trial . Something has to be tried . A perfect day for football with two good teams was ruined by the terrible tactics used . The rules need to be tweaked to stop teams doing this .


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Thats well worth a trial . Something has to be tried . A perfect day for football with two good teams ( Mayo v Galway ) was ruined by the terrible tactics used . The rules need to be tweaked to stop teams doing this .


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 dollar bill


    How about this for a rule,

    Once the ball enters the zone between the two 45's the only way the ball can leave said zone is with a kick.

    Would encourage long kicking

    Would encourage fast direct kicking

    Would eliminate defensive football as if you had 15 behind the ball when you turned it over you would have no1 to kick it to

    Very easy to implement for referees


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,998 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    How about this for a rule,

    Once the ball enters the zone between the two 45's the only way the ball can leave said zone is with a kick.

    Would encourage long kicking

    Would encourage fast direct kicking

    Would eliminate defensive football as if you had 15 behind the ball when you turned it over you would have no1 to kick it to

    Very easy to implement for referees

    But the defensive team will just mass bodies beyond the 45 expecting a kicked ball.

    Can one solo out of the 45 ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭wackokid


    The hand pass or in hurling the 'throw' pass should be banned, 100%. No exceptions to the rule. The game is FOOTBALL or HURLING. Use of anything other than a foot or a hurley penalised.
    All frees and side lines kicked from the ground.
    Jersey pulling anywhere on the field, free to opposition from 25 metre line in front of goal.
    That should get rid of the silly black card.

    A few more simple, dos and donts would make both games watchable and more enjoyable for players to play.

    end of rant


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,157 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Reducing the game to 13 a-side would help open up the game without any changes to the rules imo.
    keane2097 wrote: »
    You could nominate five players before the match that have to stay in the opposition half and give them those electrified dog collars to make sure they don't stray. Would spice up matches anyway.


    A lot of the ideas posted on this thread are not workable because they would complicate the job of the referee and his assistants even more. They already miss most of the off-the-ball late hitting so adding counting handpasses and other extras to their job would make it impossible.

    However, these two ideas are interesting. How about combining them?

    At the moment, you see 15 defenders in their own half, sometimes within their own 45 with maybe 12 attackers.

    If you reduce the teams to 13-a-side with a requirement to keep three in the opposition half, you can only have 9 defenders (plus goalkeeper). Much more difficult to keep an attacking team out as the space to be covered is too much. A team that can attack with accurate kick-passing into space for their forwards to run onto will get the greatest advantage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    blinding wrote: »
    Thats well worth a trial . Something has to be tried . A perfect day for football with two good teams ( Mayo v Galway ) was ruined by the terrible tactics used . The rules need to be tweaked to stop teams doing this .

    I think it would be a success. The less invasive the better is the way to do these rules I believe.
    Well, I would contend that the wind aided a defensive setup, in the sense that it made it difficult to kick over it. Then mayo get a man sent off when they had the wind, and so had to go defensive themselves, so those things probably made it even worse of a spectacle than maybe it might have been normally.

    The thing is, those tactics work in salthill or mchale park, with lashing rain or a strong breeze. But they wont work in croke park half as well, so is it a tactic that is going to bring silverware? Although I must say, I would be interested to see how galway v dublin in the championship, on a bad day in salthill would play out. If the wind took away cluxtons kickouts, what would happen then? So potentially you could have a very interesting spectacle also. Maybe we will see it in the super 8s.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭pimpmyhat


    A 13 yard free for any cynical tackles that occur anywhere on the pitch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,998 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    pimpmyhat wrote: »
    A 13 yard free for any cynical tackles that occur anywhere on the pitch.


    Absolutely

    Reduce the black card to just a delebrate pull down/cynical tackle and add a 13m free for every black card.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭pimpmyhat


    Absolutely

    Reduce the black card to just a delebrate pull down/cynical tackle and add a 13m free for every black card.

    It may stop the cynicism in the last minute of the game when a team is protecting a 1 point lead. Which is becoming a traite of late


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    pimpmyhat wrote: »
    It may stop the cynicism in the last minute of the game when a team is protecting a 1 point lead. Which is becoming a traite of late

    Exactly, most people including referees it wouls appear, seem to think that a cynical foul can only occur in front of goal, the truth is the majority of them occur in the other half of the field before the move/counter attack gets going at all, ehich in turns allows the defending them to re-organise and funnel players back, usually all feckin 15 of them.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Bigger collars (Rims?) on sliothars and proper standardisation of same to reduce the insane regularity of huge scores.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    danganabu wrote: »
    Exactly, most people including referees it wouls appear, seem to think that a cynical foul can only occur in front of goal, the truth is the majority of them occur in the other half of the field before the move/counter attack gets going at all, ehich in turns allows the defending them to re-organise and funnel players back, usually all feckin 15 of them.

    True. Donegal in '12 were experts at this. If they lost their own kickout, they fouled. If they tuned over a ball in the middle third, they fouled. They rotated their foulers, they got in the way of quick frees while making it look like it was something else - no easy thing to do convincingly. While blocking runners was an art form for them. I remember joe brolly lambasting mayo's fouling the dubs in the 2012 semi, and then championed donegal in the next breath, and just thinking what is he raving about... What donegal were doing that year was in fact light years more advanced than mayo's rather crude efforts against dublin, where they basically fouled guys in point scoring positions, right in front of the posts :D

    I actually think the wording of cynical fouls is holding the rule back. You shouldnt have to pull them to the ground for it to be deemed cynical. It should simply be that any foul if deemed to be carried out in a cynical fashion by the ref should be a black card offence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 dollar bill


    But the defensive team will just mass bodies beyond the 45 expecting a kicked ball.

    Can one solo out of the 45 ?

    1) Fair point but how quick could they get back inside the line? And how would they break out after winning possession? They'd have no-one to kick it to?

    Think it would result in teams trying to get the ball into forwards before the extra defenders have time to get back. A faster,More direct game.

    Plus it would force teams to keep attackers inside the 45


    2) Another good point,I'm sure the rule would have to go through some troubleshooting i.e Cannot play the ball to yourself,Breaking Ball couldnt count
    Same with punched interceptions

    I feel it would be a very easy rule to implement for refs


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭harpsman


    True. Donegal in '12 were experts at this. If they lost their own kickout, they fouled. If they tuned over a ball in the middle third, they fouled. They rotated their foulers, they got in the way of quick frees while making it look like it was something else - no easy thing to do convincingly. While blocking runners was an art form for them. I remember joe brolly lambasting mayo's fouling the dubs in the 2012 semi, and then championed donegal in the next breath, and just thinking what is he raving about... What donegal were doing that year was in fact light years more advanced than mayo's rather crude efforts against dublin, where they basically fouled guys in point scoring positions, right in front of the posts :D

    I actually think the wording of cynical fouls is holding the rule back. You shouldnt have to pull them to the ground for it to be deemed cynical. It should simply be that any foul if deemed to be carried out in a cynical fashion by the ref should be a black card offence.
    Well thats completely untrue. Im not sure if its bitterness cos they beat you in the final/memory failure/lack of knowledge of the game but any way its causing you severe delusions


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Bring back the running kick in the arse. Manly stuff,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭Joe Dog


    Bigger collars (Rims?) on sliothars and proper standardisation of same to reduce the insane regularity of huge scores.

    Agree that something has to be done about the sliothar, it's way to easy to score in hurling and because of the distance the ball can be hit a lot less hurling happens in games today compared to the 90's.

    In the 90's if you got a 65 it was a 50/50 whether there would be a score whereas nowadays it's almost an automatic score.


    Some people may like it but personally I think it's taken alot away from the game


  • Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭1984baby


    Granted the sliothars have evolved over the years but is the fact that the players train more and are much more physically stronger nowadays - that this is a bigger factor in them hitting long range points/frees.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭Joe Dog


    1984baby wrote: »
    Granted the sliothars have evolved over the years but is the fact that the players train more and are much more physically stronger nowadays - that this is a bigger factor in them hitting long range points/frees.

    Absolutely but the players are now almost too good for the game, same thing is affecting golf where they will eventually have to scale back the golf ball in professional golf.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭ciarriaithuaidh


    harpsman wrote: »
    Well thats completely untrue. Im not sure if its bitterness cos they beat you in the final/memory failure/lack of knowledge of the game but any way its causing you severe delusions

    Much as I have to admit Mayo fans can be off-putting to me with their persecution complex, that's a spot on comment from this particular Mayo poster in my view and anybody honest would admit that.
    Donegal were the best team in 2012 and deserved their All Ireland. Part of why they got their was their smart treading of the boundaries of the rules. Every team that has won the AI in the last 10 years has been similar so this isn't a unique phenomenon.

    On the thread title in general, I think many posters have alluded to simialr things in some way, but IMO we certainly need a penalty along the same lines as the 50m penalty in AFL in Gaelic Football. There was a proposal to bring in a 30m penalty for what I would generally term "acting the b*llocks" on an opposition free a few years back and it should have been brought in.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    harpsman wrote: »
    Well thats completely untrue. Im not sure if its bitterness cos they beat you in the final/memory failure/lack of knowledge of the game but any way its causing you severe delusions

    I'm not finding fault with them harpsman. All credit to them, it was intelligent play. They didn't actually do that much of it in the final tbh, they just deserved to win on the day, and again all credit to them for that also. I don't think you can say that is bitterness.

    But I do believe that mcguinness had them fouling when they lost a kickout or turnover, to prevent them getting caught when coming out of their defensive shape. If you think about it, those are the only times when they might have bodies committed forward and not have possession, so eliminating those eliminate a high number of potential goal chances. As I said, it is smart play, and if anything I think it deserves a bit of praise.


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