Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
Private profiles - please note that profiles marked as private will soon be public. This will facilitate moderation so mods can view users' warning histories. All of your posts across the site will appear on your profile page (including PI, RI). Groups posts will remain private except to users who have access to the same Groups as you. Thread here
Some important site news, please read here. Thanks!

Improvements that are needed in GAA

  • 14-07-2013 10:50pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 24,223 ✭✭✭✭ tipp_Gunner


    I posted this in the hurling thread about the goalpost issue i have noticed and i would like to get a broad spectrum of opinion across the board on it and other issues. I think pressure needs to be put on the association to have every match officiated to the same standard quality and its not just refeering but something like the goalposts could prove the difference between a goal or point or nothing depending on where your playing and its something needs to be looked at. There are many other issues too
    An issue that needs to be discussed in GAA is the standardisation of goalposts. In both Thurles and Nowlan (amongst places) the cross bar has a flat edge whereas in Croker and Limerick (amongst other places) its cylindrical.

    Big difference between hitting the cross bar when its flat edged it will more than likely come straight back out whereas if it is cylindrical, the ball will most likely go downwards if it hits the underside and into the net.

    We often marvel at the wonders of hawkeye and how it has enhanced the game and hopefully it will roll out in most stadiums in the coming years but something simple like this could be and needs to be addressed. Again it probably wouldnt be a costly implementation.


«13456713

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭ Martin567


    Not meaning to be facetious but, after Thurles last night, umpires with proper eyesight is an urgent requirement.

    Thankfully the ref was alert enough to recognise that the penalty had been scored. It absolutely beggars belief that two umpires could stand within a few feet of the goal and remain oblivious to what had happened. There were a couple of other very controversial incidents last night but this one stands alone as it is a recurring problem. Too many umpires are either unfit to hold the position due to their poor vision or else they are simply not paying attention. Last night's incident was simply inexcusable and the fact that the correct decision was ultimately made does not change that in the slightest.

    Umpires unable to get even the basics right should stand aside and allow competent individuals to take their place.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,073 marco_polo


    I guess standardisation of posts make sense in one respect, but on the other hand its the same for both teams on a given day so I wouldn't see it as a pressing issue. Is it really and different to the fact that pitches don't have a standard size outside of the minimum and maximum dimensions.

    ie. The posts are just a quirk of the particular ground.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,223 ✭✭✭✭ tipp_Gunner


    Martin567 wrote: »
    Not meaning to be facetious but, after Thurles last night, umpires with proper eyesight is an urgent requirement.

    Thankfully the ref was alert enough to recognise that the penalty had been scored. It absolutely beggars belief that two umpires could stand within a few feet of the goal and remain oblivious to what had happened. There were a couple of other very controversial incidents last night but this one stands alone as it is a recurring problem. Too many umpires are either unfit to hold the position due to their poor vision or else they are simply not paying attention. Last night's incident was simply inexcusable and the fact that the correct decision was ultimately made does not change that in the slightest.

    Umpires unable to get even the basics right should stand aside and allow competent individuals to take their place.

    Probably the best case example for hawk-eye needed for goal determination too in all honesty was the Kilkenny penalty last night.

    As for the highlighted above. Therein lies the problem with umpires. They haven't the integrity or bottle to get off the fence and make a bold call or perhaps some are fast asleep? Surely to god in the situation of a penalty they would follow the ball while looking across the line to determine whether it crossed it?

    I can remember the famous Joe Sheridan incident a few years ago. The ref Martin Sludden took alot of the blame and he deserved his share (ugly as some of the scenes were) but surely the umpire could have manned up and told the ref it was blatantly bundled over the line by Sheridan?

    What was thrown out at congress a few years ago was a proposal for referees not to get the choice of who is umpires and i thought it was a real shame because you need a situation where individuals are not afraid to challenge each other on things and at least entertain the possibility that the ref may be wrong. If the umpire is friendly with the ref he is less likely to question him for fear for undermining him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭ Syferus


    Always liked the varying size of pitches. It adds a little character to a lot of grounds. It'd be bureaucracy and short-sightedness of the highest order to standardise it because it would take supporters father away from the actions for very little good reason.

    The Hyde is the biggest pitch in Ireland (shared with a few others) and with our stand being so far away from the pitch to begin with narrowing the playing dimensions up would be nothing but destructive. Same goes in many other grounds.

    If you were going to do it the only sensible way is to have a grandfather rule so that only newly built or re-developed grounds would have to adhere to a standard size.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,223 ✭✭✭✭ tipp_Gunner


    marco_polo wrote: »
    I guess standardisation of posts make sense, but on the other hand its the same for both teams on a given day so I wouldn't see it as a pressing issue. Is it really and different to the fact that pitches don't have a standard size outside of the minimum and maximum dimensions.

    ie. The posts are just a quirk of the particular ground.

    Where the inequality comes in though is when a county plays in a few grounds in a given championship and the same scenario occured in Croker as Thurles or vice versa except different result on each occasion and this could be the difference between winning and losing an All Ireland.

    I think one of the Waterford hurlers may have already hit on it. i think it was the last gasp point they missed in some important game over the years and they said what happened in Croker could have been more favourable had it happened in Semple or vice versa i cant fully remember but it definitely involved the cross bar.


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,073 marco_polo


    Syferus wrote: »
    Always liked the varying size of pitches. It adds a little character to a lot of grounds. It'd be bureaucracy and short-sightedness of the highest order to standardise it because it would take supporters father away from the actions for very little good reason.

    The Hyde is the biggest pitch in Ireland (shared with a few others) and with our stand being so far away from the pitch to begin with narrowing the playing dimensions up would be nothing but destructive. Same goes in many other grounds.

    Oh I wasn't arguing for that (I doubt it would even be possible as you'd just end up having to pick the minimum pitch size anyway or else level half the stands around the country), rather I meant perhaps on balance the variety of posts can probably stay as is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,223 ✭✭✭✭ tipp_Gunner


    Syferus wrote: »
    Always liked the varying size of pitches. It adds a little character to a lot of grounds. It'd be bureaucracy and short-sightedness of the highest order to standardise it because it would take supporters father away from the actions for very little good reason.

    The Hyde is the biggest pitch in Ireland (shared with a few others) and with our stand being so far away from the pitch to begin with narrowing the playing dimensions up would be nothing but destructive. Same goes in many other grounds.

    I dont mind that aspect either to be honest and its not feasible in many cases due to the perimeter limitations.

    Alot would cite blanket defences as a counter argument but thats only an excuse for attacking players not working hard and fast enough to create space for colleagues.

    The one thing i might say against pitch dimensions though is if they are short then we dont want a situation where a full back could take a point from his own 21 in hurling. Tullamore pitch looked to me to be very small when i attended a hurling league game there back in 2010, and i was thinking given the weight and core type of modern day sliothars that the likes of Brendan Cummins could possibly score when merely intending to clear. Perhaps my eyes deceived me but it looked very very short. A pitch more suited to football maybe


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,073 marco_polo


    Where the inequality comes in though is when a county plays in a few grounds in a given championship and the same scenario occured in Croker as Thurles or vice versa except different result on each occasion and this could be the difference between winning and losing an All Ireland.

    I think one of the Waterford hurlers may have already hit on it. i think it was the last gasp point they missed in some important game over the years and they said what happened in Croker could have been more favourable had it happened in Semple or vice versa i cant fully remember but it definitely involved the cross bar.

    Where do you stop though, the same shot in Thurles that drops onto the crossbar in would probably land in the Lidl car park when in Cusack Park in Ennis for example :pac:.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,223 ✭✭✭✭ tipp_Gunner


    marco_polo wrote: »
    Where do you stop though, the same shot in Thurles that drops onto the crossbar in would probably land in the Lidl car park when in Cusack Park in Ennis for example :pac:.

    I dont think it would affect distance now but it greatly affects the direction the ball takes. A flat post will more than likely bounce back the same direction as it came whereas a round post is less predictable.

    I just think in the interest of fairness, that all teams should play in as identical environments as possible. Remove as much ambiguity out of the game as we possibly can.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,223 ✭✭✭✭ tipp_Gunner


    marco_polo wrote: »
    Where do you stop though, the same shot in Thurles that drops onto the crossbar in would probably land in the Lidl car park when in Cusack Park in Ennis for example :pac:.

    There is what 32 county grounds for example so 32 x2 = 64 new standardised posts installed in each ground. Tender the contract.


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,073 marco_polo


    I dont think it would affect distance now but it greatly affects the direction the ball takes. A flat post will more than likely bounce back the same direction as it came whereas a round post is less predictable.

    I just think in the interest of fairness, that all teams should play in as identical environments as possible. Remove as much ambiguity out of the game as we possibly can.

    I don't disagree per say, just arguing over its importance :), although having thought about it a bit more whatever about the crossbar, a standard height would definitely be a good thing.

    For me one of the biggest issues is (using one particular example) the fact that Dublin had to play 5 games in five weeks, but now have a six week break from the Leinster final.

    If that doesn't suggest something is very wrong with the current hurling championship structure, then I don't know what does.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,223 ✭✭✭✭ tipp_Gunner


    marco_polo wrote: »
    I don't disagree per say, just arguing over its importance :), although having thought about it a bit more whatever about the crossbar, a standard height would definitely be a good thing.

    For me one of the biggest issues is (using one particular example) the fact that Dublin had to play 5 games in five weeks, but now have a six week break from the Leinster final.

    If that doesn't suggest something is very wrong with the current hurling championship structure, then I don't know what does.

    Will Dublin play off any club games above even in the meantime?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,073 marco_polo


    Will Dublin play off any club games above even in the meantime?

    Not sure, they really should be especially in this fine weather but I'd guess like most county boards they probably have the players wrapped up in cotton wool.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭ P_1


    Will Dublin play off any club games above even in the meantime?

    We might have the prospect of the Dublin hurlers bating seven lumps of you know what out of each other in Parnell Park I guess ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,223 ✭✭✭✭ tipp_Gunner


    I think the structure of the minor championships in both codes need to be looked at.

    A team that loses their first game in a provincial semi or the All Ireland series on are knocked out of the championship with one defeat whereas you can lose a first round game and a provincial final and still go on and win a minor all ireland title at the third time of asking. Serious imbalance there


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,073 marco_polo


    I think the structure of the minor championships in both codes need to be looked at.

    A team that loses their first game in a provincial semi or the All Ireland series on are knocked out of the championship with one defeat whereas you can lose a first round game and a provincial final and still go on and win a minor all ireland title at the third time of asking. Serious imbalance there

    On that note do you happen to know the reason why the Munster U21 football championship is so much more condensed than the hurling?

    The football is done and dusted within a month from March/April, but the hurling can drag out for over two or more months (Late May to early August in some years).

    At a complete guess, would it be because they can't run them both at the same time to allow dual players to play in both, and so the hurling has to be shoehorned in around suitable gaps in the senior championship? (Based on the assumption that dual players are much more common at underage)


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,223 ✭✭✭✭ tipp_Gunner


    marco_polo wrote: »
    On that note do you happen to know the reason why the Munster U21 football championship is so much more condensed than the hurling?

    The football is done and dusted within a month from March/April, but the hurling can drag out for over two or more months (Late May to early August in some years).

    At a complete guess, would it be because they can't run them both at the same time to allow dual players to play in both, and so the hurling has to be shoehorned in around suitable gaps in the senior championship? (Based on the assumption that dual players are much more common at underage)


    Dunno the full reason but there is alot more games in Senior football championship then senior hurling with more counties involved so it could be done to help u21 footballers with their commitments at senior football and possible commitments in Senior hurling down the line. Tipp and Cork certainly face this issue in Munster the last few years.

    Look at Lee Chin for example. Imagine a scenario where the u21 football championship was played during the normal calender of May to Sept. It was chaotic enough for him trying to juggle u21 hurling with senior hurling and football but how bad would it be if he was trying to juggle u21 and senior in both codes? As it is i dunno where he gets his energy from.

    Conor McDonald interestingly enough has played appeared at minor, u21 and senior level this year in the hurling. I think both Carlow (Marty Kavanagh) and Westmeath have had lads do likewise the last year or so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭ Syferus


    I think the structure of the minor championships in both codes need to be looked at.

    A team that loses their first game in a provincial semi or the All Ireland series on are knocked out of the championship with one defeat whereas you can lose a first round game and a provincial final and still go on and win a minor all ireland title at the third time of asking. Serious imbalance there

    I think less that being a problem and more that the four provinces offer differing levels of back doors. Nothing at all in Connacht and Ulster and generous schemes in Munster and Leinster. None or all provinces have back doors, it should be that simple.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭ Dirty Dingus McGee


    The Offaly football and hurling teams need to improve:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,651 ✭✭✭ keeponhurling


    Syferus wrote: »
    I think less that being a problem and more that the four provinces offer differing levels of back doors. Nothing at all in Connacht and Ulster and generous schemes in Munster and Leinster. None or all provinces have back doors, it should be that simple.

    I'm not really seeing why 4 provinces having different systems a problem?

    Each province runs its own competition.
    Then each province's winners and runners-up moves on the All-Ireland series

    In any case it's not the most pressing problem.

    The biggest problem GAA faces is that club players can be left without matches all summer, and are unable to plan anything as their matches all depend on combinations of inter-county match results.
    30 lads not being able to play a match because one intercounty player has been "wrapped in cotton wool" is not on.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭ freedominacup


    I'm not really seeing why 4 provinces having different systems a problem?

    Each province runs its own competition.
    Then each province's winners and runners-up moves on the All-Ireland series

    In any case it's not the most pressing problem.

    The biggest problem GAA faces is that club players can be left without matches all summer, and are unable to plan anything as their matches all depend on combinations of inter-county match results.
    30 lads not being able to play a match because one intercounty player has been "wrapped in cotton wool" is not on.

    Spot on. A decision needs to be made as to whether inter-county players/panellists are controlled by their clubs or by their counties. Is it the soccer route where players are club players first and are released by their clubs to train and play for the county at known intervals during the season. Or is it the rugby route where the player is controlled by the county and is released at available to their club at the behest of the county manager. In this case club fixtures carry on and are set a the start of the season and are not subject to change other than for truly unforseen reasons. The availability or not of county players would be irrelevant to whether matches took place.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭ freedominacup


    Tackling around the head area when a player is going down to pick up a ball needs to become a straight red. It's dangerous and cowardly and some young man is going to end up dead or in a wheel chair because of it.

    There is no argument that it's a timing thing, don't put yourself in the position that you are going to get the timing wrong. Arriving late for a tackle is one thing and dangerous enough but all that's likely to happen is broken bones/torn muscles or ligaments. Arriving early is always pre-meditated and designed to cause damage.

    Whether the tackles come head-on or from the side you have an exposed head and neck being hit a significant speed by the hip/lower torso of another guy going hard. That's a very uneven contest. It's only luck that has kept us from a high profile funeral.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭ Poor_old_gill


    The idiotic 2 yellow cards thing needs to be sorted out once and for all- often a player will get hit and react by pushing in self-defense. Result: yellow card each! Refs need to sort out the root of the problem by being more stern with instigators.

    We need some information as to what exactly umpires do, other than wave shots wide or give points, there are too many instances where big calls have made by refs from 40 yards away while umpires stand completely mute


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 15,201 Mod ✭✭✭✭ rebel girl 15


    Throw the rulebook out, and rewrite it completely, defining all the grey areas of the game - the tackle in football is one prime example. If the rulebook was simpler, and everything defined, it would help with the consistency of refereeing across both codes. People yesterday giving out about Hoggie's red card, when by the letter of the law, McGrath was completely correct. Yet McGrath will be criticised about a soft red card, when other referees let those things slide.

    Any tackle around the head needs to be a red, its dangerous. Cynical tackling needs to be yellows and reds.

    The biggest thing is to be able to get consistency from the referees, and making the rulebook clean cut and simpler would help. I'd also ban managers from discussing referees and the game in general with the media trying to influence them. I'll have a think, because it is an interesting question!


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,700 ✭✭✭✭ keane2097


    The idiotic 2 yellow cards thing needs to be sorted out once and for all- often a player will get hit and react by pushing in self-defense. Result: yellow card each! Refs need to sort out the root of the problem by being more stern with instigators.

    We need some information as to what exactly umpires do, other than wave shots wide or give points, there are too many instances where big calls have made by refs from 40 yards away while umpires stand completely mute

    This. Punishing a retaliator the same as an instigator drives me mad.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,626 ✭✭✭ Big Pussy Bonpensiero


    Throw the rulebook out, and rewrite it completely, defining all the grey areas of the game - the tackle in football is one prime example. If the rulebook was simpler, and everything defined, it would help with the consistency of refereeing across both codes. People yesterday giving out about Hoggie's red card, when by the letter of the law, McGrath was completely correct. Yet McGrath will be criticised about a soft red card, when other referees let those things slide.

    Any tackle around the head needs to be a red, its dangerous. Cynical tackling needs to be yellows and reds.

    The biggest thing is to be able to get consistency from the referees, and making the rulebook clean cut and simpler would help. I'd also ban managers from discussing referees and the game in general with the media trying to influence them. I'll have a think, because it is an interesting question!
    And rightfully so, it was never a red card, the Limerick player was more hurt from the sliothar and Horgan's hurl, not even sure if he realised Horgan had hit him. Perhaps according to the 'letter of the law', but the ref should have shown discretion. There is very seldom a black and white area when it comes to tackles.

    I'm not sure what the specific wording in the GAA rulebook is, but in soccer for a 'careless' foul a free-kick is given, for a 'reckless' tackle a yellow card is given and for use of 'excessive force' a red card is given. For me yesterday, Horgan's challenge was broderline reckless and careless, and at the very most warranted a yellow. Giving a red card for that was one of the most ridiculous decisions of the championship to date.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,223 ✭✭✭✭ tipp_Gunner


    Syferus wrote: »
    I think less that being a problem and more that the four provinces offer differing levels of back doors. Nothing at all in Connacht and Ulster and generous schemes in Munster and Leinster. None or all provinces have back doors, it should be that simple.

    TBH i hadnt realised that. I thought it was universally the same for every province


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 sid waddell


    The tackle with the free arm in hurling and to a lesser extent in football. Basically the tackler pushes his armpit into the face of the player in possession. This is not a legal tackle but, somewhere along the line, it has become accepted as so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭ GBXI


    Big GAA fan here, love watching it every summer (and the leagues too) but there is so much that needs to change/improve that it's not funny. Ironically, the majority of these are not the players/managers fault but the administration of the GAA. The players are professional in all but name, pity those in senior positions didn't have the same attitude.

    The biggest and easiest thing is the timekeeping issue. This shouldn't be left to the ref alone. It needs to have a rugby style, stop the clock for injuries/breaks in play etc. or it needs to have the soccer style, defined amount of time added on for each sub. If they want to copy the ladies and how they manage the time then that would be great too. How many times have we seen the token 1 minute added time at the end of the 1st half and 2 minutes at the end of the 2nd half no matter how many stoppages there's been. So frustrating.

    The 2nd issue, as mentioned above, is with umpires and their 'lack of involvement' to put it nicely. I've been told that they have no official power to make a decision but that's bull****, they should have the balls to help out the ref when needed. And so many, as mentioned above, are incredibly incompetent, for example the Kilkenny penalty at the weekend.

    The tackle is a big issue in football, more so than hurling. However, you'll notice the best teams in the country are getting better and better at tackling and clearly spending large amounts of time practicing how to do it properly. There is a right way to tackle and referees need to be more consistent in how they ref it.

    Finally (for today!) the standard of refereeing in football is terribly poor these days. The GAA need to do more to encourage younger people/ex-players to become refs and train them properly. And please no more Marty Duffy's!!


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭ WesternZulu


    The GAA while good at many things are atrocious at promoting their games.

    If you are not into GAA then you would not know if your county was playing a championship game a lot of the time, especially in the earlier stages of the championship.

    If you compare it to rugby there is a massive room for improvement.

    I am from the West and do spend a bit of time at various times throughout the year in Galway city.

    If you were a tourist you would be full sure that Galway is a rugby stronghold and that the whole city is consumed by all things Connacht rugby.
    The fact is that rugby hardy registers in Galway for most people, besides the odd glamour tie in the Heineken Cup, and would be behind gaelic football and hurling in overall interest.

    But there is punting on most of the pubs and throughout town there are loads of (albeit a bit cringey) massive ''Front Up, Rise up'' posters.
    As far as I know the Connacht branch of the IRFU push all this and fair play to them. I'm sure that this has boosted overall interest, and attendance.

    The GAA could do a lot worse that look towards rugby in terms of self promotion.


Advertisement