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Improvements that are needed in GAA

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 27,142 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    harpsman wrote: »
    Well thats completely untrue. Im not sure if its bitterness cos they beat you in the final/memory failure/lack of knowledge of the game but any way its causing you severe delusions
    Much as I have to admit Mayo fans can be off-putting to me with their persecution complex, that's a spot on comment from this particular Mayo poster in my view and anybody honest would admit that.
    Donegal were the best team in 2012 and deserved their All Ireland. Part of why they got their was their smart treading of the boundaries of the rules.


    To a certain extent I agree with you both. Mayo pre-2012 were naive and got caught by clever play on the borderline by Donegal.

    However, since then, Mayo have been masters of it. It is only in the last few months that we have seen the focus on the likes of the O'Connor brothers and the way they cynically play the game. That has been a part of the Mayo game since they lost to Donegal, unfortunately for them it hasn't worked.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    blanch152 wrote: »
    To a certain extent I agree with you both. Mayo pre-2012 were naive and got caught by clever play on the borderline by Donegal.

    However, since then, Mayo have been masters of it. It is only in the last few months that we have seen the focus on the likes of the O'Connor brothers and the way they cynically play the game. That has been a part of the Mayo game since they lost to Donegal, unfortunately for them it hasn't worked.

    Ah, they were naive enough in 2012 also tbh. Their naive implementation of cynical fouling against the dubs that year was in fact counter productive. They were fouling fellas where a score was guaranteed from a dead ball but from play the guy was actually om their weak side under pressure and not a great shooter. They were losing kickouts and not fouling there and then, but instead fouling when they got to the D. Crazy stuff. They have definitely improved since then on that front and long may it continue. As you say, it hasnt been enough to match the eventual winners since.
    As for the oconnors, well throwing elbows isnt cynical, its just stupid. They would be better if they took example from those that actually have won things and operated under the radar a bit more. Id argue its the guys who get away with it are the real masters of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭harpsman


    I'm not finding fault with them harpsman. All credit to them, it was intelligent play. They didn't actually do that much of it in the final tbh, they just deserved to win on the day, and again all credit to them for that also. I don't think you can say that is bitterness.

    But I do believe that mcguinness had them fouling when they lost a kickout or turnover, to prevent them getting caught when coming out of their defensive shape. If you think about it, those are the only times when they might have bodies committed forward and not have possession, so eliminating those eliminate a high number of potential goal chances. As I said, it is smart play, and if anything I think it deserves a bit of praise.
    Maybe I'll watch it back and see if you're right. I would wonder why Donegal conceded late goals against Kerry and Cork, and nearly against Tyrone if they were such good tactical foulers.


    But my recollection of it is that Mayo were cynical with alot of late and high hits. Not that i blame Mayo for that-they werent cynical enough in plenty of finals


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,308 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    I posted this in the hurling thread about the goalpost issue i have noticed and i would like to get a broad spectrum of opinion across the board on it and other issues. I think pressure needs to be put on the association to have every match officiated to the same standard quality and its not just refeering but something like the goalposts could prove the difference between a goal or point or nothing depending on where your playing and its something needs to be looked at. There are many other issues too

    Far more televised games needed. The Joe McDonagh cup is largely among counties where hurling is the second sport to football and are trying to promote interest in hurling and yet not a single game has been televised yet.
    Two massive weekends of GAA just gone by yet nothing on TV on either Saturday, Its almost like the GAA doesn't want to get in the way of people watching rugby and soccer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Easy, peasy. Break up 'Dublin' into 4 teams as per:

    https://www.integratingdublin.ie/about/area.html

    All local authorities and equivalent to counties in terms of population elsewhere, with possible exception of Dublin City. But sure they can be the whipping boys :)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    Joe Dog wrote: »
    Agree that something has to be done about the sliothar, it's way to easy to score in hurling and because of the distance the ball can be hit a lot less hurling happens in games today compared to the 90's.

    In the 90's if you got a 65 it was a 50/50 whether there would be a score whereas nowadays it's almost an automatic score.


    Some people may like it but personally I think it's taken alot away from the game

    I was actually thinking about this yesterday on my way home from Tom Semples fine field and I actually think its a positive thing and it removes the cynical fouling from the game because there is no such thing as a 'safe' free to givew away.

    What reminded of it was in yesterdays game when Tipp were rampant and had Cork on the ropes, Cork gave away a free on the Tipp 45 and the Cork lad in front of me commented that it was a 'good' free to concede and break up the play but Jason Forde nailed the free and it was a huge lift to Tipp at the time, anything that discourages cynical and systematic fouling ( I'm not for a second suggesting that was what Cork did btw) has to be a good thing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭0byme75341jo28


    The steps rule needs a revamp. Either to give it a time limit or a distance limit, at the moment (especially in hurling) nearly every possession is overcarried yet it's only implemented when it suits the referree. Obviously this adds to the spectacle of the game but it's purely unenforceable in it's current format, and what's the point in having rules if they're not enforced?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    The steps rule needs a revamp. Either to give it a time limit or a distance limit, at the moment (especially in hurling) nearly every possession is overcarried yet it's only implemented when it suits the referree. Obviously this adds to the spectacle of the game but it's purely unenforceable in it's current format, and what's the point in having rules if they're not enforced?

    Carrying the ball in your hand while bouncing it should also be prohibited


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭0byme75341jo28


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Carrying the ball in your hand while bouncing it should also be prohibited

    What do you mean? Like tapping it off the hurley? Or do you mean football? Sorry this has me completely flummoxed...


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,037 ✭✭✭TheRiverman


    The handpass in football has to be changed.The abuse of it in all games nowadays is awful.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭0byme75341jo28


    Patww79 wrote: »
    Regarding the McDonagh, would TG4 show it if they were allowed?

    Surely the would. It's mind boggling that it isn't televised, the more GAA on free-to-air the better


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    The handpass in football has to be changed.The abuse of it in all games nowadays is awful.

    Really?

    I'd be taking the throw out of hurling first.

    Walter Walsh had a doozy at the weekend right under the refs nose. Ridiculous.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭Joe Dog


    danganabu wrote: »
    I was actually thinking about this yesterday on my way home from Tom Semples fine field and I actually think its a positive thing and it removes the cynical fouling from the game because there is no such thing as a 'safe' free to givew away.

    What reminded of it was in yesterdays game when Tipp were rampant and had Cork on the ropes, Cork gave away a free on the Tipp 45 and the Cork lad in front of me commented that it was a 'good' free to concede and break up the play but Jason Forde nailed the free and it was a huge lift to Tipp at the time, anything that discourages cynical and systematic fouling ( I'm not for a second suggesting that was what Cork did btw) has to be a good thing.

    It's too easy to score from play though, I just feel there is too little hurling being played within the game these days and the skill of scoring in hurling has somewhat reduced due to it being so easy.

    Cynical fouling could easily be solved by simply moving the ball up 30 metres for a cynical foul.It's what should have been introduced instead of the black card in football.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭djPSB


    Number of games at intercounty level needs to be reduced.

    Especially given new round Robin format of the championship.

    FBD/Walsh Cup equivalents should be got ridden off.

    Number of League games should be restricted to 6/7 including latter stages.

    As things stand, the intercounty games are taking up January to the end of August with a small gap in April. This needs to be condensed.

    Also, too many games amongst the same teams is going to eventually dilute the excitement of intercounty games. For example, Galway hurlers could potentially play Kilkenny or another Leinster team 7 times in one season based on current formats.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    harpsman wrote: »
    Maybe I'll watch it back and see if you're right. I would wonder why Donegal conceded late goals against Kerry and Cork, and nearly against Tyrone if they were such good tactical foulers.


    But my recollection of it is that Mayo were cynical with alot of late and high hits. Not that i blame Mayo for that-they werent cynical enough in plenty of finals

    I recall the cork goal coming from a high ball and just individual brilliance from o'neill with two or three men around him.
    Re kerry, well kerry were a serious attacking outfit, some times it is hard to stop a team littered with superb players on every occasion. But id argue your point misses the bigger picture in the sense that donegal won those games. They may have conceded late, but more pertinently they conceded less.
    Again, not a criticism, merely trying to clarify my opinion for you. I think donegal were far more tactically developed at the time than they are credited with. They were like kerry, doing it but getting away with it which is a skill in itself. It wasnt until mayo and the dubs tore the ar*e out of it that the gaa decided to act with the bc rules.

    Re mayo, well i remember the keegan one but to be honest, a neck high tackle from a position where mcglynn was probably going to chip it over the bar isnt really a smart move in my book. All you are 'gaining' is a yellow card. And whatever chance you had of a defender maybe kicking it wide, with murphy and mcfadden knocking around on the dead ball it wasnt going anywhere but over the bar. Is that cynical or stupid?

    Anyway we are probably going off topic a bit so i will leave it there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    What do you mean? Like tapping it off the hurley? Or do you mean football? Sorry this has me completely flummoxed...

    In football
    Players take 2/3 steps with the ball in their hand before they perform the bounce. Ciaran Kilkenny and most Dublin players are masters at it
    It's a basketball style dribble


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭harpsman


    I recall the cork goal coming from a high ball and just individual brilliance from o'neill with two or three men around him.
    Re kerry, well kerry were a serious attacking outfit, some times it is hard to stop a team littered with superb players on every occasion. But id argue your point misses the bigger picture in the sense that donegal won those games. They may have conceded late, but more pertinently they conceded less.
    Again, not a criticism, merely trying to clarify my opinion for you. I think donegal were far more tactically developed at the time than they are credited with. They were like kerry, doing it but getting away with it which is a skill in itself. It wasnt until mayo and the dubs tore the ar*e out of it that the gaa decided to act with the bc rules.

    Re mayo, well i remember the keegan one but to be honest, a neck high tackle from a position where mcglynn was probably going to chip it over the bar isnt really a smart move in my book. All you are 'gaining' is a yellow card. And whatever chance you had of a defender maybe kicking it wide, with murphy and mcfadden knocking around on the dead ball it wasnt going anywhere but over the bar. Is that cynical or stupid?

    Anyway we are probably going off topic a bit so i will leave it there.
    I do see your point MAM-sorry, I didnt mean it personally- Donegal were probably more "streetwise" than Mayo in 12. Its just I didnt remember that much cynical fouling (green and gold tinted glasses) .But as you say lets move on.


    (ps Keegan one was on Mark McHugh-McGuinness was still moaning about it a year later)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Sure, but how many titles will you accept County Dublin winning in the coming years.. before the inevitable logic sinks in?

    Breaking up Dublin County for GAA is a no brainer. It's population is growing and growing and growing with a good age profile, whilst many rural counties are declining and aging.

    If not by Local Authority, then simply North and South Dublin as defined by the Liffey. There's a natural rivalry there already.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Sure, but how many titles will you accept County Dublin winning in the coming years.. before the inevitable logic sinks in?

    Breaking up Dublin County for GAA is a no brainer. It's population is growing and growing and growing with a good age profile, whilst many rural counties are declining and aging.

    If not by Local Authority, then simply North and South Dublin as defined by the Liffey. There's a natural rivalry there already.

    Complete bollocks.

    Dublin has always had a much, much bigger population than any other county in the country.

    However, in the nearly 30 years from the last Heffo All Ireland to the Pat Gilroy one (1983 to 2011) Dublin won a grand total of one All Ireland. One.

    Yet no one gave a two hoots then, about splitting us up.

    But they do now? For the good of the game. Yeah right !


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    ProudDUB wrote: »
    Complete bollocks.

    Dublin has always had a much, much bigger population than any other county in the country.

    However, in the nearly 30 years from the last Heffo All Ireland to the Pat Gilroy one (1983 to 2011) Dublin won a grand total of one All Ireland. One.

    Yet no one gave a two hoots then, about splitting us up.

    But they do now? For the good of the game. Yeah right !

    The Dubs weren't getting 1 million a year from the Irish sports council before 2000
    And huge funding from gaa and Leinster gaa

    Never had to develop their own large stadium
    Nor develop their own county training grounds


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    ProudDUB wrote: »
    Complete bollocks.

    Dublin has always had a much, much bigger population than any other county in the country.

    However, in the nearly 30 years from the last Heffo All Ireland to the Pat Gilroy one (1983 to 2011) Dublin won a grand total of one All Ireland. One.

    Yet no one gave a two hoots then, about splitting us up.

    But they do now? For the good of the game. Yeah right !

    I wouldn't consider it funny to be honest with you. For a lot of that time Dublin football was competing with the top teams but just coming up short. They weren't far away. There was no point angling for splitting them up when they were on a par with the other teams. Once the massive population advantage wasn't having any obvious negative effects then people will generally let it slide, mainly because people aren't that mean-spirited.
    But clearly, now it is having an effect. And your logic is to say 'well you never complained about it before so cant start now!'? Hardly reasonable now is it?
    It isn't simply one good group of players - most of that group didn't start their championship outing this year.
    Even if Dublin lose this year for example. It isn't as if they are going to be gone away is it? They can just win the next 3-4 in a row after that. Imagine the apathy that will develop in the rest of the counties by that point?
    We are sleepwalking towards a Celtic-SPL situation.

    The reality is the moment the gaa went throwing money at Dublin to improve them, they upset the balance that had developed naturally between counties at the top level over the years. That needs to be corrected if the sport is to move forward. If it doesn't happen, the sport will ultimately suffer. I accept that you mightn't want to split Dublin, but can you offer any alternatives that would bring the thing back to something that is acceptable?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,288 ✭✭✭mickmackey1


    ProudDUB wrote: »
    Complete bollocks.

    Dublin has always had a much, much bigger population than any other county in the country.

    However, in the nearly 30 years from the last Heffo All Ireland to the Pat Gilroy one (1983 to 2011) Dublin won a grand total of one All Ireland. One.

    Yet no one gave a two hoots then, about splitting us up.

    But they do now? For the good of the game. Yeah right !


    If St Vincent's or Ballymun were up against some 2-bob junior outfit in the Dublin championship, you'd be the first to say that's nonsense and meaningless. Funny how people abandon logic when it suits them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    So split US and China in 5/6 ways for the Olympics.

    GAA in Dublin is a minority sport in a city mostly inhabited by non nationals - sorry "New Irish."


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    So split US and China in 5/6 ways for the Olympics.

    GAA in Dublin is a minority sport in a city mostly inhabited by non nationals - sorry "New Irish."

    Surely the fact that it is a minority sport, and they are already winning 5 out of 7 all Irelands, only underlines the level of disproportion at play. Non-nationals have children, their children grow up and play the local games. We have nabbed enough soccer players on the granny rule to know that better than anyone. With the drive in Dublin schools to get children playing gaa currently at play, it is only going one way.

    If you got an objective outsider to view the thing, I believe that they would come down on the side of splitting the county going forward because it is the most logical, simplest and also best solution. I appreciate you don't want that, but can you offer a better, or at least some way comparable alternative? Because the attitude of 'shoot everything down so we can just carry on as we are' is just going to wear thin on people


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    I don't think you are too familiar with the "New Irish"!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    I don't think you are too familiar with the "New Irish"!

    Feel free to expand on that. Do you mean they refuse to get involved?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Feel free to expand on that. Do you mean they refuse to get involved?


    They do their own thing. You can hardly force them to play hurling or football, or abide by any other thing, it would seem.

    Dublin is a huge city now, vastly disproportionate to rest of the country. And that is not a good thing for all sorts of reasons, but Dublin GAA people are not some omnipotent entity. Most people wouldn't even know the local club.

    Success of the current football team is down to exceptional players and backroom. Don't worry, it shall end :)


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