Improvements that are needed in GAA

martingriff

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

No more than I am looking for Cork or Antrim to be split now, for the simple reason that it isn't having an averse massive effect on the premier intercounty competition... You would have to be a pretty mean-spirited individual to want to split up a county just for the sake of it, wouldn't you?


The thing is, the money is being well spent on those who need it in Dublin. So if you allocate the monies elsewhere, the kids in Dublin have to go without... I don't think that is the answer, i.e. choke the game out of kids in Dublin so they aren't as good as the lads down the country... I would consider that a very backward approach.

There having an effect cause there the best at the moment as the Ulster teams were in the 90's Kerry teams in there invincible years. You problem is there winning and your team is not. You call it mean spirited to split up a county but that is what you want you want to split a team up for the sake of bringing them down to your level while you should be looking to do the opposite. The way to do that is investment by the GAA by splitting the money up between all counties but helping out those at the bottom a bit more then those at the top

Was not thinking of not spending money in Dublin. Of course you have to keep doing that however instead of doing money top down go top up. Plus I say Dublin get's a fair bit from sponsors more then the smnaller teams. Remember when the GAA wanted to get Dublin hurling up they start initiatives by the GAA and the sport rose up they just need to do that in a country wide scale.

Coillte_Bhoy

BarryD2 wrote: »

The GAA would want to have deep pockets so, because the root of the problem is much wider than simply facilities. When you have local parish teams amalgamating so as to be able to field teams, you're shrinking and in decline. Maybe lads were once happy to stick about but now it's off to Aus and the States.

People in Dublin just don't realise how lopsided the country is getting in all sorts of ways. Sure you can only put 15 out on the pitch, but Dublin seems to have great strength and depth at the moment with a conveyor of talent.

Maybe the Dubs & their supporters will get bored winning in a few years. Then they'll decide to split and subsequent finals will be the Northsiders v Southsiders.

But apart from splitting, another possible solution is an AI open draw, no seeding, straight knockout competition. At least that way if the Dubs had an off day in the 1st or 2nd round, they'd be gone for good. Which would open it up for other counties. As it is, the present competition seems structured to ensure that the top counties don't suffer from any falters and can get back in.

Bollocks, the provincial draws in Munster and Leinster favour the top teams, not so in Connacht and Ulster

martingriff

BarryD2 wrote: »

The GAA would want to have deep pockets so, because the root of the problem is much wider than simply facilities. When you have local parish teams amalgamating so as to be able to field teams, you're shrinking and in decline. Maybe lads were once happy to stick about but now it's off to Aus and the States.

People in Dublin just don't realise how lopsided the country is getting in all sorts of ways. Sure you can only put 15 out on the pitch, but Dublin seems to have great strength and depth at the moment with a conveyor of talent.

Maybe the Dubs & their supporters will get bored winning in a few years. Then they'll decide to split and subsequent finals will be the Northsiders v Southsiders.

But apart from splitting, another possible solution is an AI open draw, no seeding, straight knockout competition. At least that way if the Dubs had an off day in the 1st or 2nd round, they'd be gone for good. Which would open it up for other counties. As it is, the present competition seems structured to ensure that the top counties don't suffer from any falters and can get back in.

Sorry but the decline in GAA in other counties and I see it in mine is not Dublin's fault and should not be split due to that. As for the GAA and there pockets they are pretty deep when they want them to be. I am open for an open draw I have no problem with that. Just remember if you want it back to if you lose your out like it was before then all teams will be playing that way. All I hear is bring them down to our level

BarryD2

Whatever, but I suppose it depends on what is most important to the GAA. If it's the local club teams, then probably all is dandy apart from the oft quoted issue around scheduling fixtures & shrinking numbers.

But if it's the county competitions scene, then clearly any 'improvements that are needed in the GAA' must also consider the relative strength of counties and address any imbalances that are growing.

Without wishing to prolong the discussion, it was to address precisely this problem of growth, that Dublin County and Corporation were split into 4 local authorities a number of years ago. And the same reasons apply to redrawing constituency boundaries and number of TD seats every few years. And the same thing happens in the GAA in reverse, in rural areas with clubs combining. So if it's good enough for everyone else, why not the GAA county structure? It seems a valid question. Though obviously it upsets some who think they're being got at.

And whilst I appreciate the argument of dragging other teams down to a level, surely the better thing is to have a more even level regardless of standards to some extent. That keeps games and competitions interesting and engaging.

martingriff

BarryD2 wrote: »

Whatever, but I suppose it depends on what is most important to the GAA. If it's the local club teams, then probably all is dandy apart from the oft quoted issue around scheduling fixtures & shrinking numbers.

But if it's the county competitions scene, then clearly any 'improvements that are needed in the GAA' must also consider the relative strength of counties and address any imbalances that are growing.

Without wishing to prolong the discussion, it was to address precisely this problem of growth, that Dublin County and Corporation were split into 4 local authorities a number of years ago. And the same reasons apply to redrawing constituency boundaries and number of TD seats every few years. And the same thing happens in the GAA in reverse, in rural areas with clubs combining. So if it's good enough for everyone else, why not the GAA county structure? It seems a valid question. Though obviously it upsets some who think they're being got at.

And whilst I appreciate the argument of dragging other teams down to a level, surely the better thing is to have a more even level regardless of standards to some extent. That keeps games and competitions interesting and engaging.

Because its county teams not Local Authority teams. If your suggestion was taken up if the City or county councils were to come back then Cork, Limerick Waterford Galway and others would have to split. Lets not go on if they brought back town councils. Now you will say I am been ridiculous and yes yes I am but so is yours to slip it by Local authorities

TrueGael

martingriff wrote: »

Because its county teams not Local Authority teams. If your suggestion was taken up if the City or county councils were to come back then Cork, Limerick Waterford Galway and others would have to split. Lets not go on if they brought back town councils. Now you will say I am been ridiculous and yes yes I am but so is yours to slip it by Local authorities

But there such entity as County Dublin anymore, it ceased to exist in the mid 90s( hence the formation of counties Fingal, DLR and South Dublin as well as Dublin City) for the very simple reason that the population was getting too big for just 1 council to take care of and the population is far far bigger now and will continue to do so. Expected to grow to 2 million by 2040 and Hoover up an even greater chunk of the population

If the GAA have any interest in preventing its Golden Goose becoming an irrelevant competition there is only one option. Those 4 teams would all be in the Top 10 on population, resources, economic strength and market capacity so there is no room to suggest that they'd be weak. I mean we're always told of the amazing adminstration up there spmIm sure they'd have no problem of competing in an even playing pitch

martingriff

TrueGael wrote: »

But there such entity as County Dublin anymore, it ceased to exist in the mid 90s( hence the formation of counties Fingal, DLR and South Dublin as well as Dublin City) for the very simple reason that the population was getting too big for just 1 council to take care of and the population is far far bigger now and will continue to do so. Expected to grow to 2 million by 2040 and Hoover up an even greater chunk of the population

If the GAA have any interest in preventing its Golden Goose becoming an irrelevant competition there is only one option. Those 4 teams would all be in the Top 10 on population, resources, economic strength and market capacity so there is no room to suggest that they'd be weak. I mean we're always told of the amazing adminstration up there spmIm sure they'd have no problem of competing in an even playing pitch

So there is 29 counties in the Rep of Ireland?????

TrueGael

martingriff wrote: »

So there is 29 counties in the Rep of Ireland?????

Just read the first sentence in each

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%BAn_Laoghaire%E2%80%93Rathdown

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dublin

So there you have it 3 county councils and a populous city on top , that is what what everyone is competing against

4 heavily populated counties combined into 1 with all players living within a stones throw of training (No 3/4 hours trek across the country for 8/9 months of the year)

backed by reams of massive companies and most important the GAA itself the supposed custodian of the game nationally

Dyr

Deleted User wrote: »

Will Dublin play off any club games above even in the meantime?

Will they f**k, won't be a hurl swung til September.

nice_guy80

martingriff wrote: »

Sorry but the decline in GAA in other counties and I see it in mine is not Dublin's fault and should not be split due to that. As for the GAA and there pockets they are pretty deep when they want them to be. I am open for an open draw I have no problem with that. Just remember if you want it back to if you lose your out like it was before then all teams will be playing that way. All I hear is bring them down to our level

Nobody ever said that
Other counties deserve equitable funding to Dublin

No other county can bring in a huge sponsorship package like AIG on top of all the money they get direct from HQ
They've every advantage in terms of facilities, players studying and getting jobs in their own county and plenty of money to develop players

Dyr

nice_guy80 wrote: »

No other county can bring in a huge sponsorship package like AIG on top of all the money they get direct from HQ

Is that so?

What did Supermacs hand Galway recently, 2 million?

What are Elverys giving Mayo?

Kerry have their 1 million gift from Kerrygold on top of the sponsorship deal

No other county eh? :

Bonniedog

What money would create Brian Fenton?


Or Gooch or Shefflin or Cavanagh or Canning.

These chaps and their teams come around once in a generation, We are just lucky to have the footballers we have and a fkn genius running it, Same as Dwyer, Boylan, Cody, Harte, Nothing to do with money.

fly_agaric

BarryD2 wrote: »

Without wishing to prolong the discussion, it was to address precisely this problem of growth, that Dublin County and Corporation were split into 4 local authorities a number of years ago.

totally off topic, but I find it hard to resist delurking & making a comment when I spot this coming up. IMO, Dail politicians split the county in 4 to "hobble" local government there as it was a potential threat to their power-base; not to improve its workings. It did not stop Dublin growing, but it did make it much harder to effectively organise services for people like transport, housing, water & waste management etc that need more of a Dublin region approach.
The poor coordination meant that politicians then ended up having to set up more quangos like NTA to do the jobs the split up Dublin local authorities cannot do!

Splitting a thing by force is done to undermine/weaken/damage it (or to destroy in cases of real malice), so I can see why Dublin gaa supporters might not be enthusiastic!

Amprodude

Use a different colour ball in both sports.

StupidLikeAFox

Bonniedog wrote: »

What money would create Brian Fenton?


Or Gooch or Shefflin or Cavanagh or Canning.

These chaps and their teams come around once in a generation, We are just lucky to have the footballers we have and a fkn genius running it, Same as Dwyer, Boylan, Cody, Harte, Nothing to do with money.

It's a bit of a stretch to say it's nothing to do with the money. It's not just the money but funding is certainly a factor

martingriff

TrueGael wrote: »

Just read the first sentence in each

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%BAn_Laoghaire%E2%80%93Rathdown

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dublin

So there you have it 3 county councils and a populous city on top , that is what what everyone is competing against

4 heavily populated counties combined into 1 with all players living within a stones throw of training (No 3/4 hours trek across the country for 8/9 months of the year)

backed by reams of massive companies and most important the GAA itself the supposed custodian of the game nationally

Wikipedia where anyone can right anything. The 3 are not counties and this is from a cut her has dealings with them everyday. As another poster has said the only reason they were set up was for vote getters for politicians and more jobs for the boys

largepants

Bonniedog wrote: »

What money would create Brian Fenton?


Or Gooch or Shefflin or Cavanagh or Canning.

These chaps and their teams come around once in a generation, We are just lucky to have the footballers we have and a fkn genius running it, Same as Dwyer, Boylan, Cody, Harte, Nothing to do with money.

You need to be pulled up on this.

You keep mentioning this once in a generation team. Simply not true.

Compare the Dublin team in AI team of 2011 and last years AI team. Might be 2/3 players the same. So to suggest it's a once in a generation team in rubbish.

BarryD2

Another way of looking at the county imbalance issue is to look at the areas of equivalence used for EU elections. Prior to 2014, there were just four: Munster, Leinster, Connacht/Ulster and Dublin. Just look at the map:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/new-european-parliament-constituencies-have-wonderland-logic-1.1775716

Those were the rough equivalences in terms of population. Obviously this excludes the Six Counties, so you could add a fifth there. Sure you can argue that these are created to maximise seats etc etc. but that's only a small influence. They do reflect an underlying obvious reality.

Clearly it'd be ridiculous to have a four/ five 'county' AI structure made up of above but that's the logic of population. Maybe rather than go to this extreme though, the GAA could look at merging some counties in the same way as club/ parish teams will merge? Over my dead body is I suspect the answer to that, but maybe it will eventually be over the dead body of Gaelic games in some counties/ regions?

BarryD2

martingriff wrote: »

So there is 29 counties in the Rep of Ireland?????

Nah, there's 32 counties in Ireland But I can never quite figure out why people get so hung up on a local administration structure that was largely devised by the Brits!

CatInABox

I think splitting Dublin into two will create more problem than it will solve. It creates a horrible precedent, one that I think would have massive unintended consequences.

What are the aims of splitting the county?
How will the success of splitting the county be measured?
What happens if neither team are successful afterwards and the number of people participating plummets?
What happens if another team becomes dominant?
Kerry or another team could conceivable come back and dominate for a number of years, should they be split too?
What measurement is used to say that a team is too successful?

All in all, splitting a county, any county is a non-runner, it'd cause far more problems than it'd solve.

Personally, I'd like to see a drastic change to the league, provincial championships, and all Ireland championship. The situation as it is has resulted in some teams targeting different cups, meaning that they become meaningless. Mayo clearly doesn't care about the league, and you could make the case that they don't really care about the provincial championship. All their training seems primed so that they peak for the late stages of the All Ireland. Same with Kerry, they've won Munster so often that they clearly don't care about it. The league is an afterthought for them. Leinster isn't even a training regime for Dublin anymore, it's clear the players aren't playing against the teams, they're playing against the guys on the bench trying to take their starting spot. Ulster is the only provincial championship where competition forces teams to compete at full pace.

I'd combine the league, provincials, and All Ireland into one competition. Have four groups like the league, the top three teams in each group going on to contest the "All Ireland". The groups should be seeded from the performance of the last year, with no restriction based on province, that way, every group has the same chance, with no ultra competitive group like Ulster, and no walkovers like Leinster. All the games will be meaningful for all the teams, with no one able to hold themselves for later in the year.

By combining them all, it'll free up more of the year for club games, so that the club season could be finished before the county season starts, Players won't be taken from their clubs for large stretches, or club games relegated to the depths of winter.

ThunbergsAreGo

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Exactly, Dublins dominance cannot explain the absolute collapse of Kildare and Meath

Kildare have almost 4 times the population of Monaghan (who should and are admired) and have consistently regressed

Meath is has seen a large growth in population and have never been as consistently bad in my memory

If it was population only, why arent these doing better?

martingriff

BarryD2 wrote: »

Nah, there's 32 counties in Ireland But I can never quite figure out why people get so hung up on a local administration structure that was largely devised by the Brits!

There is 26 counties in the Republic of Ireland as my post says and that is true. But you are actually correct in GAA terms for the all Ireland there are 32. I was dealing with his point of Dublin been 3 different counties

ProudDUB

BarryD2 wrote: »

Nah, there's 32 counties in Ireland But I can never quite figure out why people get so hung up on a local administration structure that was largely devised by the Brits!

Kilkenny hurler is handed a jersey for Curragh North & told "Get over it. Boundaries have been redrawn. You're from Curragh North now. Don't want to hear any bitching. Sure why get so hung up on a local administration structure, that was largely devised by the Brits?"

How is that going to go down?

Kerry footballer is handed a jersey for Skelligs South. Coach says "Enough of yer aul guff now. Kerry as a county doesn't exist any more. What's your problem, sure isn't all that "county" shyte just an outdated form of British bureaucracy?"

How is that going to go?

Cork camogie player is told she now plays for South Tipperary Riding, as boundaries have been redrawn & Kanturk isn't in Cork any more. In fact none of Cork is in Cork anymore, as the county of Cork doesn't exist at all now. "Get over it & stop being so hung up on what the Brits did" - she is told.

How will that convo go?

So g'wan.... enlighten us with your views on how silly it is to be so hung up on our sense of belonging to our home place, our home city/town and our home county?

I'm all ears.

largepants

naughtb4 wrote: »

Exactly, Dublins dominance cannot explain the absolute collapse of Kildare and Meath

Kildare have almost 4 times the population of Monaghan (who should and are admired) and have consistently regressed

Meath is has seen a large growth in population and have never been as consistently bad in my memory

If it was population only, why arent these doing better?

Lets be honest here now. Kildare and Meaths only chance of silverware is a Leinster Championship. That has now become a cakewalk.

Would you bother your arse dedicating your life to GAA for that? I wouldn't be encouraging any of my young lads to get involved at such a level.

largepants

ProudDUB wrote: »

Kilkenny hurler is handed a jersey for Curragh North & told "Get over it. Boundaries have been redrawn. You're from Curragh North now. Don't want to hear any bitching. Sure why get so hung up on a local administration structure, that was largely devised by the Brits?"

How is that going to go down?

Kerry footballer is handed a jersey for Skelligs South. Coach says "Enough of yer aul guff now. Kerry as a county doesn't exist any more. What's your problem, sure isn't all that "county" shyte just an outdated form of British bureaucracy?"

How is that going to go?

Cork camogie player is told she now plays for South Tipperary Riding, as boundaries have been redrawn & Kanturk isn't in Cork any more. In fact none of Cork is in Cork anymore, as the county of Cork doesn't exist at all now. "Get over it & stop being so hung up on what the Brits did" - she is told.

How will that convo go?

So g'wan.... enlighten us with your views on how silly it is to be so hung up on our sense of belonging to our home place, our home city/town and our home county?

I'm all ears.

The GAA invests around 27 times more per player in Dublin than they do in Donegal.

Sorry Donegal lads but you got to get over it because that's all there is.

C__MC

Its all really if buts and when

The History of the GAA has seen meath and kildare have 1 or 2 golden periods

ProudDUB

largepants wrote: »

The GAA invests around 27 times more per player in Dublin than they do in Donegal.

Sorry Donegal lads but you got to get over it because that's all there is.

What Donegal lads are we talking about?

The ones who would have 2 All Ireland medals in their arse pockets, but for Paddy Durcan's unfortunate faux pas? Or some other lot?

Pixel Eater

I think most people agree that the Championship structure needs to change in both codes but especially football. The Super 8s is a good start but it's typical GAA tinkering around the edges rather than going for the jugular straight away. You can keep the Provincial Championships but just run then as separate competitions from the main championship, just like the various 'cup' competitions in soccer.

Ah for hurling; I've said this before but the sliotar simply needs to be heavier. It's far too light for the modern game as players are far stronger and more conditioned now and can hit points from their own half's regularly. Sure didn't the Kilkenny keeper score a point from hos own D recently. And while they're at it make 65's either indirect or as a sideline cut from the corner.

ThunbergsAreGo

largepants wrote: »

Lets be honest here now. Kildare and Meaths only chance of silverware is a Leinster Championship. That has now become a cakewalk.

Would you bother your arse dedicating your life to GAA for that? I wouldn't be encouraging any of my young lads to get involved at such a level.

So we should only had 4 teams in the country?

Sure why would Carlow? Its that exact attitude that needs changing and is the reason for these counties struggling

There has always been a gap between the top teams and others in football (and in hurling)

ThunbergsAreGo

largepants wrote: »

You need to be pulled up on this.

You keep mentioning this once in a generation team. Simply not true.

Compare the Dublin team in AI team of 2011 and last years AI team. Might be 2/3 players the same. So to suggest it's a once in a generation team in rubbish.

Its exactly like you say, they are different teams.

I dont think winning an AI (or even two) as alot of that team did makes it once in a generation.

I think the current team has the potential to be (winning streak, back to backs etc.)