Abortion Discussion

swampgas

swiftblade wrote: »

Perhaps some of you knowledgeable people could help me with this one.

The fact that women will face a jail sentence for gaining an abortion now, seems to me like something that would be hard to prove. Lets say for instance, that a women has a misscarrige. What's to stop them from saying she obtained an illegal abortion? Was the misscarrige "natural"? etc.

I assume they would need some harder evidence though?

I was wondering what position a doctor would find themselves in if a patient came along experiencing problems after using pills obtained on the internet to cause an abortion. Is the doctor obliged to report it, or does doctor-patient confidentiality take precedence?

Mardy Bum

swampgas wrote: »

I was wondering what position a doctor would find themselves in if a patient came along experiencing problems after using pills obtained on the internet to cause an abortion. Is the doctor obliged to report it, or does doctor-patient confidentiality take precedence?

If the person said they took the pilll across the border they should be ok though?

swampgas

Mardy Bum wrote: »

If the person said they took the pilll across the border they should be ok though?

Interesting point. Stand on one side of an imaginary line and take a pill, and you are a criminal liable to up 15 years in prison. Stand the other side of the line, and you have a legally protected right to do exactly the same thing with no consequences.

The root of the problem, as everyone knows but few in government are prepared to acknowledge, is article 40.3.3 of the constitution. I really hope this is a major issue at the next election.

aloyisious

HurtLocker wrote: »

Outside Wilton Shopping Center car park straight across from the CUH maternity building and just outside CUH gates next to the bus shelter have old rally signs around it as of 2 days ago(since i was last there) and outside the Elision near the big Garda barracks has those kill the bill not the baby yokes on the junction as of 6pm yesterday.

I don't think anyone would object to you keeping a poster of a recent campaign (for purely national historical record reasons, of course) so that kids can see and learn what some of their respected betters did in their name.

TheChizler

aloyisious wrote: »

I don't think anyone would object to you keeping a poster of a recent campaign (for purely national historical record reasons, of course) so that kids can see and learn what some of their respected betters did in their name.

While I wouldn't use the words 'respected betters' I agree with the sentiment!

PopePalpatine

I think #TerminateThe8th would be a decent starting point for a Twitter-based campaign.

Brian Shanahan

ninja900 wrote: »

If he had, there would have been rocks through the windows of Leinster House. You cannot defy the will of the people.

Yeah but Loose Lips is the kind of right wing wing nut who thinks "what I think"="the will of the people".

Brian Shanahan

aloyisious wrote: »

Seriously???? Even with this in the 1967 UK Abortion Act: (a little-known section of the 1967 abortion legislation means that the upper limit of 24 weeks can be set aside and the baby can be terminated "up to birth" if tests indicate the child will have a disability when born).

I'd have thought she might have read/researched that act, re her stated position. If she did, then one might assume that she may have wanted the boat/plane traffic to continue, so the "abortion option" would stay abroad. That implication would be revealing :-')

In her student days Ms. Creighton was strongly pro-choice. It was only after she entered the Dáil that she started "thinking of the babys".

PopePalpatine

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

In her student days Ms. Creighton was strongly pro-choice. It was only after she entered the Dáil that she started "thinking of the babys".

Linky? :pac:

swampgas

It didn't take long for the obvious implications of the new bill to be questioned:

Clarity sought on jailtime over use of abortion pills

HurtLocker

swampgas wrote: »

It didn't take long for the obvious implications of the new bill to be questioned:

Clarity sought on jailtime over use of abortion pills

*sigh*

The Irish Medicines Board seized 487 abortion pills last year. The pills remain illegal in Ireland despite being licensed in the UK and other parts of Europe for more than 20 years.

Sulla Felix

How is it the IMB siezing them, surely it's Revenue/Customs doing the legwork?

Hotblack Desiato

I can't figure out why the IMB even exists. It seems to me their main function is to ban herbal remedies accepted throughout the rest of the EU, and ensure our drug prices remain through the roof.

If a generic drug is available at 2 euro a month in Spain it should be legal to import and sell it here, rather than force the public to buy the IMB approved version at 30 euro/month.

Abolish the IMB and allow any drug approved in an EU country to be sold here. Save waste of taxes and slash costs to the consumer with zero effect on safety.

HurtLocker

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I think #TerminateThe8th would be a decent starting point for a Twitter-based campaign.

Think of the children!

mbiking123

swampgas wrote: »

Interesting point. Stand on one side of an imaginary line and take a pill, and you are a criminal liable to up 15 years in prison. Stand the other side of the line, and you have a legally protected right to do exactly the same thing with no consequences.

The root of the problem, as everyone knows but few in government are prepared to acknowledge, is article 40.3.3 of the constitution. I really hope this is a major issue at the next election.

Go to Holland you can do drugs legally - pot etc, back in Ireland its illegal

Same for prostitution etc

Turtwig

ninja900 wrote: »

I can't figure out why the IMB even exists. It seems to me their main function is to ban herbal remedies accepted throughout the rest of the EU, and ensure our drug prices remain through the roof.

If a generic drug is available at 2 euro a month in Spain it should be legal to import and sell it here, rather than force the public to buy the IMB approved version at 30 euro/month.

Abolish the IMB and allow any drug approved in an EU country to be sold here. Save waste of taxes and slash costs to the consumer with zero effect on safety.

They're trying to change the rules for generics here. Long overdue imo. That said I don't think herbal remedies should be available because they just happen to be available in europe. If anything I think greater scrutiny needs to be shown to herbal stuff. Lots of people in Ireland seem to be under the impression that herbal stuff, natural remedies and non prescription medicine is less harmful than prescribed medicine.

TheChizler

Was pondering the other day, how doesn't this inadvertently make the MAP illegal?

bumper234

ninja900 wrote: »

I can't figure out why the IMB even exists. It seems to me their main function is to ban herbal remedies accepted throughout the rest of the EU, and ensure our drug prices remain through the roof.

If a generic drug is available at 2 euro a month in Spain it should be legal to import and sell it here, rather than force the public to buy the IMB approved version at 30 euro/month.

Abolish the IMB and allow any drug approved in an EU country to be sold here. Save waste of taxes and slash costs to the consumer with zero effect on safety.

We didn't join Europe to part of no free market, no one said you would be able to shop around and it would be like living in one big country with no borders....oh wait.

Garseys

ninja900 wrote: »

I can't figure out why the IMB even exists. It seems to me their main function is to ban herbal remedies accepted throughout the rest of the EU, and ensure our drug prices remain through the roof.

If a generic drug is available at 2 euro a month in Spain it should be legal to import and sell it here, rather than force the public to buy the IMB approved version at 30 euro/month.

Abolish the IMB and allow any drug approved in an EU country to be sold here. Save waste of taxes and slash costs to the consumer with zero effect on safety.

IMB only recently got remit over herbal remedies (and personal health devices). It does stop a lot of the herbal that comes from Europe (Inconsistent, Deceiving products with little to no regulation or QC).

The Generic one I partly agree with you on. Cheaper alternatives should be available even ones currently on the UK Marketplace (e.g. 20p paracetamol which is near identical to the 1.50 box on a shelf in boots)

I don't agree with the Abolishment of the IMB however. They do a lot of work in cracking down on the Counterfeit drug trade and stopping potentially dangerous substances being sold to people unknowingly (One case I heard of was a man who bought a drug online to help his body accept his new Kidney, paid thousands for it and turned out the drug was a rejection drug.) IMB are the guys who monitor all that stuff.

They also do a brilliant job of keeping the Pharma industry in this country to a very high standard. IMB Audits are known to be more thorough and tough than FDA audits of Irish companies. (Hence why the FDA do not Audit companies that have an IMB audit in the same year)

aloyisious

Sulla Felix wrote: »

How is it the IMB siezing them, surely it's Revenue/Customs doing the legwork?

Not sure, but I think it's because the IMB would be the one to determine and declare what the pills are, and if they are dangerous to health. That is part of the IMB portfolio. Due to the posts on this,
I was curious as to the difference between the morning-after pill and the abortion pill, so here's two addresses.

The first is that of a Christian Life group and gives the definitions of the pills and what each does, plus the side-effects without any of the fuss one might expect.
https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CEAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.christianliferesources.com%2Farticle%2Fthe-abortion-pill-and-the-morning-after-pill-are-they-the-same-1023&ei=ZGDiUd6TDo-EhQf6-YDIDw&usg=AFQjCNHVuGiBchm25ziD5QBpg6hlx84Hlg&bvm=bv.48705608,d.ZG4

The second is that of a private NY Medical practice serving women. It's release is called "What is the difference between emergency contraception and the abortion pill?"
https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CEUQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.choiceandhealth.com%2Fwhatisthedifference.htm&ei=ZGDiUd6TDo-EhQf6-YDIDw&usg=AFQjCNHHW3S2fkoRydkX-ZiJXiPI1Fv6kw&bvm=bv.48705608,d.ZG4

kylith

ninja900 wrote: »

I can't figure out why the IMB even exists. It seems to me their main function is to ban herbal remedies accepted throughout the rest of the EU, and ensure our drug prices remain through the roof.

If a generic drug is available at 2 euro a month in Spain it should be legal to import and sell it here, rather than force the public to buy the IMB approved version at 30 euro/month.

Abolish the IMB and allow any drug approved in an EU country to be sold here. Save waste of taxes and slash costs to the consumer with zero effect on safety.

Totally agree. I couldn't believe the difference in price for even the most basic medicines on the continent; we even pay through the nose for Zovirax.

TheChizler wrote: »

Was pondering the other day, how doesn't this inadvertently make the MAP illegal?

I was wondering the same myself. I think the MAP prevents implantation whereas the other ones slough the lining and anything implanted in it.

Galvasean

_rebelkid wrote: »

Youth Defence try to unmask Anonymous protestors?

Seems to be what they're into. This forum seem quite keen to find out names and work addresses of pro-choice activists.
I would advise anybody who was demonstrating on behalf of the pro-choice campaign to have a look at the pictures in that thread to see if they are there. Might be a good idea to keep your wits about you if you do.

Turtwig

Jesus Christ!:eek:

Obliq

Galvasean wrote: »

Seems to be what they're into. This forum seem quite keen to find out names and work addresses of pro-choice activists.
I would advise anybody who was demonstrating on behalf of the pro-choice campaign to have a look at the pictures in that thread to see if they are there. Might be a good idea to keep your wits about you if you do.

For sure. Check in with the Gardai too, maybe....

This has "pro-life" written all over it eh? Threatening violence against people with an opinion, but non-violent methods. Pro-choice have unintrusive protests too - there are no pro-choicers picketing outside people's homes.

Time for the pro-life side to own this. Whatever side you're on, there can be no distancing yourself from people who want to enforce that opinion by trying to make people shut-up.

Nodin

Galvasean wrote: »

Seems to be what they're into. This forum seem quite keen to find out names and work addresses of pro-choice activists.
I would advise anybody who was demonstrating on behalf of the pro-choice campaign to have a look at the pictures in that thread to see if they are there. Might be a good idea to keep your wits about you if you do.

.....they don't have the resources. You'll note that no names are actually mentioned.

Its an attempt at one up-manship, because this lot have had their number for years.
http://afaireland.yolasite.com/

"shitheap gallery"

aloyisious

So any-one who had a free vote, or decided freely to vote for the bill in the Dail, is now a Left-Wing scum. I winder if the Independents will think "****, we've been outflanked by FG and FF"

There's a comment in today's edition of the Examiner by Senator John Crown that there are moves by opponents of the bill to defeat it in the Senate over the prison-terms part in it.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/abortion-legislation-could-face-seanad-obstacles-600472.html

Herself at the front of Pics 2 & 3 will be "morto"

Galvasean

Just shows how little the pro-life squad really care about women if they can be so willy-nilly about a potential 14 year sentence. Proof that they really don't give a f#ck about them.

Nodin

Galvasean wrote: »

Just shows how little the pro-life squad really care about women if they can be so willy-nilly about a potential 14 year sentence. Proof that they really don't give a f#ck about them.

Woman who has had an abortion has had sex. Sex = wrongness, therefore 'Dirty cow deserves it'.

Joined up thinking, pro-life style.

Sarky

In Ronan Mullen's case I'd suggest there's some bitterness that none of the sex was had with him, but that's probably only because I despise the smarmy bastard.

Doctor Strange

Jernal wrote: »

Jesus Christ!:eek:

You rang?