Cymru Lions v Wallabies, 3rd Test Match Thread, Sat July 6, 1100am

Rightwing

Buer wrote: »

http://www.lionsrugby.com/history/match_archives.php?section=lineups&fixid=58650

Jesus,,,, 20 yrs ago. Looking at some of those names, where have the years gone. A good team that was.

JagerScout

lets go oz

subfreq

Rightwing wrote: »

Jesus,,,, 20 yrs ago. Looking at some of those names, where have the years gone. A good team that was.

Used to see Arran Pene in Otago all the time. John Timu was such an amazing player and Inga the winger. Such great players.

thomond2006

Congratulations to irishbucsfan on his call up.

shuffol

Think the Lions will win this, they've got the pack right and thats where the game will be won. Wales though having a very poor record against Australia have always caused them lots of trouble but just failed to get over the line, with Sexton in the side this shouldnt be a problem. Hoping for a Lions victory but wouldnt be gutted if Australia won it purely for the amusement of the inevitable fallout.

subfreq

George Smith v Sean O'Brien will be worth the admission fee alone.

Tssk

Could someone explain why Tuilagi is on the bench for me?Genuinely. Am I being unfair in saying that he is a big powerful guy to bust through lines and wouldn't have much subtlety/passing ability? I don't get how BOD goes from starter to outside the squad if that is the case.
It seems to me like we've been using a giant hammer to break into a tough safe. And now we will try a slightly larger hammer,when maybe the skill of a locksmith would be more appropriate.. To not to have that back up plan at least seems a bit silly.
Also to lose the captain who is there for his leadership etc and then drop the most experienced guy who has seen it all,just doesn't add up either...

Tox56

subfreq wrote: »

George Smith v Sean O'Brien will be worth the admission fee alone.

Funny how things work, I was looking forward to him v BOD 12 years on, and the one test he plays is the one test BOD doesn't

Rightwing

Tssk wrote: »

Could someone explain why Tuilagi is on the bench for me?Genuinely. Am I being unfair in saying that he is a big powerful guy to bust through lines and wouldn't have much subtlety/passing ability? I don't get how BOD goes from starter to outside the squad if that is the case.
It seems to me like we've been using a giant hammer to break into a tough safe. And now we will try a slightly larger hammer,when maybe the skill of a locksmith would be more appropriate.. To not to have that back up plan at least seems a bit silly.
Also to lose the captain who is there for his leadership etc and then drop the most experienced guy who has seen it all,just doesn't add up either...

I also think this guy should be in the starting line up. Eddie Jones said during the week he'd have gone with Roberts & Tuilagi. I wanted Tuilagi and anyone else.

LorMal

Scenario 1 - Lions win - everybody happy - well done Warren - BOD hailed as an inspiration etc etc

Scenario 2 - Lions lose - everybody raging - Bye Bye Warren - BOD absence blamed for loss - no leadership etc etc

Either way - BOD has bags of cash - nice holiday coming - tasty missus - made for life

I still have sh!t temp job, big mortgage, no holiday, huge stress..

Therefore can only be very slightly devastated about all this...

Podge_irl

Tssk wrote: »

Could someone explain why Tuilagi is on the bench for me?Genuinely. Am I being unfair in saying that he is a big powerful guy to bust through lines and wouldn't have much subtlety/passing ability? I don't get how BOD goes from starter to outside the squad if that is the case.
It seems to me like we've been using a giant hammer to break into a tough safe. And now we will try a slightly larger hammer,when maybe the skill of a locksmith would be more appropriate.. To not to have that back up plan at least seems a bit silly.
Also to lose the captain who is there for his leadership etc and then drop the most experienced guy who has seen it all,just doesn't add up either...

I would have started him tbh, he looked good in the last midweek game, looked as good as Roberts on tour and is obviously more match fit.

Gatland has him on the bench because he is an "impact player". Because if Roberts attempting to run through players isn't working they can bring Tuilagi on and have him attempt to run through players. Gatland doesn't seem to realise that impact player isn't referring to the collisions as they get tackled.

danthefan

LorMal wrote: »

Scenario 1 - Lions win - everybody happy - well done Warren - BOD hailed as an inspiration etc etc

Scenario 2 - Lions lose - everybody raging - Bye Bye Warren - BOD absence blamed for loss - no leadership etc etc

Either way - BOD has bags of cash - nice holiday coming - tasty missus - made for life

I still have sh!t temp job, big mortgage, no holiday, huge stress..

Therefore can only be very slightly devastated about all this...

Ahhhh stop!

It's sports. Sports isn't supposed to make any sense! Does 30 guys chasing a ball around on the other side of the world have any material effect on my life? **** no. But I'll still feel unbelievable tension, every emotion under the sun, I'll feel like putting the remote through the TV, I'll curse Gatland, want to hug whoever scores the first Lions try, be devastated or delighted at the end.

It's not rational. But it's brilliant.

wittycynic

Despite the fact that I disagree with the dropping BOD, this is probably the best line up Gatland has fielded. The Wallabies are pound for pound more skillful players and have more experience playing with each other. If we head out there throwing it around, trying to play rugby, we'll get beaten. I know I'll get a hammering for this but with the right execution I believe Gatland's bosh tactics can deeply trouble the aussies.

The Welsh are the best team in the northern hemisphere so it's not surprising they'll make up the majority of the team. With that said, we have top English and Irish players in key positions that are superior to the Welsh alternatives. The Welsh spine will enable cohesion and are familiar with the gameplan and the English and Irish will bring huge impact. In addition our bench can make a significant impact, much more so than the Wallabies'.

Perhaps controversial but I'm calling a Lions win by more than seven points. Hang me out to dry if I'm wrong.

Podge_irl

wittycynic wrote: »

Despite the fact that I disagree with the dropping BOD, this is probably the best line up Gatland has fielded. The Wallabies are pound for pound more skillful players and have more experience playing with each other. If we head out there throwing it around, trying to play rugby, we'll get beaten. I know I'll get a hammering for this but with the right execution I believe Gatland's bosh tactics can deeply trouble the aussies.

Must be why Wales have so much success against Australia so.


I almost feel bad for berating Priestland so much seeing as it appears Gatland doesn't even like his fly half to play rugby.

Artful_Badger

wittycynic wrote: »

Despite the fact that I disagree with the dropping BOD, this is probably the best line up Gatland has fielded. The Wallabies are pound for pound more skillful players and have more experience playing with each other. If we head out there throwing it around, trying to play rugby, we'll get beaten. I know I'll get a hammering for this but with the right execution I believe Gatland's bosh tactics can deeply trouble the aussies.

The Welsh are the best team in the northern hemisphere so it's not surprising they'll make up the majority of the team. With that said, we have top English and Irish players in key positions that are superior to the Welsh alternatives. The Welsh spine will enable cohesion and are familiar with the gameplan and the English and Irish will bring huge impact. In addition our bench can make a significant impact, much more so than the Wallabies'.

Perhaps controversial but I'm calling a Lions win by more than seven points. Hang me out to dry if I'm wrong.

And how often does Gatlands bosh game work against SH teams ? He went into this planning on using the Welsh team and his Welsh tactics as a foundation for the Lions. Yet forgot its a team and tactics that has given the Aussies little trouble in recent games. They may have won the worst 6 nations in my living memory but before that if you recall they dropped out of the top 8 when beaten by Argentina, Samoa, NZ and Australia.

LorMal

danthefan wrote: »

Ahhhh stop!

It's sports. Sports isn't supposed to make any sense! Does 30 guys chasing a ball around on the other side of the world have any material effect on my life? **** no. But I'll still feel unbelievable tension, every emotion under the sun, I'll feel like putting the remote through the TV, I'll curse Gatland, want to hug whoever scores the first Lions try, be devastated or delighted at the end.

It's not rational. But it's brilliant.

You are right Dan. I think it is a great distraction from the dark nights of the soul.
But still, it's all a load of nonsense really though isn't it? The Lions, the heritage, the history, the glory ..etc etc Alan Thingy (munster Ireland lion) said as much in the I Times recently. Most supporters there for the holiday. Don't give a tuppence who wins. Excuse to go on the lash for 3 weeks in the sun.

And I am not one bit jealous, bitter, depressed, suicidal or anything...honest...

wittycynic

Artful_Badger wrote: »

And how often does Gatlands bosh game work against SH teams ? He went into this planning on using the Welsh team and his Welsh tactics as a foundation for the Lions. Yet forgot its a team and tactics that has given the Aussies little trouble in recent games. They may have won the worst 6 nations in my living memory but before that if you recall they dropped out of the top 8 when beaten by Argentina, Samoa, NZ and Australia.

Name me one Home nations team that has had consistent success against SH opposition in the past few years. At least Wales have been consistently close to Australia. People are fond of quoting that it's been close but no cigar for Wales in recent times against Australia, but I don't seem to remember England, Ireland, or Scotland notching up impressive series wins in the SH recently.

Artful_Badger

wittycynic wrote: »

Name me one Home nations team that has had consistent success against SH opposition in the past few years. At least Wales have been consistently close to Australia. People are fond of quoting that it's been close but no cigar for Wales in recent times against Australia, but I don't seem to remember England, Ireland, or Scotland notching up impressive series wins in the SH recently.

I'm not the one saying a team used as a backbone with tactics they are used to is the way to go to beat the Aussies though. This is a team with four nations of players to draw from, to limit the team to essentially being Wales hasnt worked and why would it when Wales couldnt even get it to work with 1-15 players with the plan drilled into them ?

Gatland should have gotten the best players together and tried to fashion a game plan to make use of their talents. He's supposed to be a world class coach after all. The point of the Lions is to make use of the talent of the NH to create a team people want to see to pack stadiums and sell TV subscriptions. Win or lose tomorrow the Lions brand is devalued after Gatlands crappy tour. Games were crap, selections were ridiculous, fans have been alienated and divided, rugby was dreadful. How is that of value to anyone ?

wittycynic

Artful_Badger wrote: »

I'm not the one saying a team used as a backbone with tactics they are used to is the way to go to beat the Aussies though. This is a team with four nations of players to draw from, to limit the team to essentially being Wales hasnt worked and why would it when Wales couldnt even get it to work with 1-15 players with the plan drilled into them ?

Gatland should have gotten the best players together and tried to fashion a game plan to make use of their talents. He's supposed to be a world class coach after all. The point of the Lions is to make use of the talent of the NH to create a team people want to see to pack stadiums and sell TV subscriptions. Win or lose tomorrow the Lions brand is devalued after Gatlands crappy tour. Games were crap, selections were ridiculous, fans have been alienated and divided, rugby was dreadful. How is that of value to anyone ?

There is no magic tactic that's going to make a collection of Home nations players world beaters. Nh rugby is in a diabolical state, and severely lacking in top talent in comparison to the SH. This year's six nations was testament to its low standards. The idea that Gatland can conduct a meeting with the players and cobble together some marvellous tactic that he somehow hasn't thought of in the fifteen years he's been working in the NH is daft.

The only thing that matters is winning and that's the one factor that will improve the lions brand. The 97 tour was dire but it was a winning tour and is immortalised. Good rugby was played in 2009 but the tour was a failure. Win ugly, win pretty, but just make sure you win.

Tox56

wittycynic wrote: »

Name me one Home nations team that has had consistent success against SH opposition in the past few years. At least Wales have been consistently close to Australia. People are fond of quoting that it's been close but no cigar for Wales in recent times against Australia, but I don't seem to remember England, Ireland, or Scotland notching up impressive series wins in the SH recently.

Ireland have only lost 2 of the last 5 v Australia and have won 3 of the last 5 v South Africa (ROG missed a conversion for a draw in one of the losses). Fair enough winning in Australia's backyard is extremely difficult, but during Wales' 8 game losing streak against Oz, only 3 of those games was actually in Australia. One was in New Zealand during the RWC, the same World Cup Ireland beat Australia (and Wales also lost against South Africa).

The less said about New Zealand the better (for everyone).

neilmulvey

wittycynic wrote: »

Name me one Home nations team that has had consistent success against SH opposition in the past few years. At least Wales have been consistently close to Australia. People are fond of quoting that it's been close but no cigar for Wales in recent times against Australia, but I don't seem to remember England, Ireland, or Scotland notching up impressive series wins in the SH recently.

Close? The lions were close last week, just as close as Wales. Ireland have done ok against the Aussies in recent times too. FFS even Scotland could beat the Aussies in Oz last year.

The problem is Gatland's gameplan is bish bash bosh. If that doesnt work, its plan B (Bish bash bosh). Gatland has made far too many changes. Aussies have a settled side which will give them some continuity.

If Davies didnt knock Lealifano out in the first minute of the first test the Lions would have lost that game too because he didnt look like missing a kick last saturday.

Artful_Badger

wittycynic wrote: »

There is no magic tactic that's going to make a collection of Home nations players world beaters. Nh rugby is in a diabolical state, and severely lacking in top talent in comparison to the SH. This year's six nations was testament to its low standards. The idea that Gatland can conduct a meeting with the players and cobble together some marvellous tactic that he somehow hasn't thought of in the fifteen years he's been working in the NH is daft.

The only thing that matters is winning and that's the one factor that will improve the lions brand. The 97 tour was dire but it was a winning tour and is immortalised. Good rugby was played in 2009 but the tour was a failure. Win ugly, win pretty, but just make sure you win.

As lacking in top talent as it is drawing from four nations should allow any coach to create a team to compete with any team in the world. Three of those teams are in the top 8 in world rugby and you can take the cream of the crop from each team.

And he doesnt have to come up with a magic tactic, he just has to coach the team he's charged with coaching rather than sticking to being Welsh coach in all but name ? How is that daft ?

And winning isnt the only thing that matters, the Lions is a touring team, its a combined nations team. Winning this year wont further the brand. How could it ? People dont just want a win they want entertainment, they want to see the best players from their countries playing good rugby. 2009 wasnt a failure, it was a fantastic tour with some amazing games. Even without the win it got people excited about the Lions and furthered the brand. That year is why I was so looking forward to this year. I bought a sky sports subscription, I bought a jersey. After this tour I cant say as I'll be excited about the Lions.

inmyday

Lions to win by 8+ points.
I really really hope they win, and Sexton plays outstanding, Man of the match and gets a try.


This rugby forum is so cringey today. Time for many posters to grow up.
Loads of toys were throw out of the pram after the squad was announced.

Swiwi.

thomond2006 wrote: »

Congratulations to irishbucsfan on his call up.

We couldn't leave Richie Gray in the match day 23 now, could we!

irishbucsfan

Le vieux renard wrote: »

We couldn't leave Richie Gray in the match day 23 now, could we!

Haha I just noticed that.

thebaz

did Gatland give BOD his first cap ?

if so, did they have any notable falling out in recent years (public anyway) ?

Rightwing

thebaz wrote: »

did Gatland give BOD his first cap ?

if so, did they have any notable falling out in recent years (public anyway) ?

I think he did, but make no mistake, his dropping is not personnal. No doubt about that.

thebaz

Rightwing wrote: »

make no mistake, his dropping is not personnal. No doubt about that.

give it 2 years , when the truth and book comes out , and tells us what really happened - I'm not buying under the circumstances Gatland would make such a call, in such a pressure game, missing so many leaders , that he would omit the only real leader left standing - Saturday would be the type of game BOD always excelled in - the bigger the occasion and pressure , is when the greats perform , and BOD was one of the few greats on this tour.

Rightwing

thebaz wrote: »

give it 2 years , when the truth and book comes out , and tells us what really happened - I'm not buying under the circumstances Gatland would make such a call, in such a pressure game, missing so many leaders , that he would omit the only real leader left standing - Saturday would be the type of game BOD always excelled in - the bigger the occasion and pressure , is when the greats perform , and BOD was one of the few greats on this tour.

Doubt it very much, but I'll definitely take my hat off to you if that comes out.

[Jackass]

I don't think Wales have a chance, but having said that, I have a kind of gut feeling of a potential master stroke. Even though I think Gatland has thrown away the tour, the fact that I respect him as a coach so much, I wouldn't be surprised if he made fools of us all, but I'm sticking my neck on the line and saying that he has fu*ked up big time and thrown away the tour on partizan bullsh*t and inability to be original, so has panicked and is trying to salvage it by treating it as a Wales v Oz knock out game....maybe he's playing on the bornze match experience from the Welsh players and giving them a chance to right what they believe is a wrong? Either way, I don't think this is the time or the place.

Oz by more than 10 and Lions made a disgrace of, without winning a tour in 16 years and unlikely to win the next one v NZ, bringing it potentially over 20 years...i.e. potentially on the following Lions tour after NZ, many of the players in the squad will not have had a Lions tour win in their life time.