Squats the Story MkII- Off topic thread

Mellor

MightyMandarin wrote: »

IWF finally released the positive results from London 2012. Ilya, Apti and Boyanka Kostova among others got nabbed.

Looks like Rio medallists won't be fully known until years after anyway, and with no Ilya or Apti there it could be pretty sh*t to watch.

Have they formally released the names of the 31 athletes from Bejing, and the 23 from London who failed re-checks?

Or is it just random names being drip fed by various bodies.

dylbert

Mellor wrote: »

Have they formally released the names of the 31 athletes from Bejing, and the 23 from London who failed re-checks?

Or is it just random names being drip fed by various bodies.

http://www.iwf.net/2016/06/15/public-disclosures/

10 names released in relation to 2012.

Mellor

Cheers found this also; 2008 B samples being tested to confirm.

http://www.iwf.net/2016/06/06/iwf-statement-on-the-reanalyzes-2/

DylanJM

MightyMandarin wrote: »

IWF finally released the positive results from London 2012. Ilya, Apti and Boyanka Kostova among others got nabbed.

Looks like Rio medallists won't be fully known until years after anyway, and with no Ilya or Apti there it could be pretty sh*t to watch.

I keep seeing people say this (mainly on reddit) but I really don't get this attitude at all. What about the other couple of hundred lifters that will be a the Olympics? Just because a few big names won't be there doesn't mean the competition is going to be terrible.

Caliden

Oh Ilya....

Brian?

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Well, I'm sold on it.

I don't understand all the hate. This was my point. 2 days after I started using the new version, I was used to it and accepted it.

I would find it difficult to summon any strong feelings on the cosmetic appearance of boards.ie.

Hanley

DylanJM wrote: »

I keep seeing people say this (mainly on reddit) but I really don't get this attitude at all. What about the other couple of hundred lifters that will be a the Olympics? Just because a few big names won't be there doesn't mean the competition is going to be terrible.

It's because they're the only people they know.

Alf Veedersane

Brian? wrote: »

I don't understand all the hate. This was my point. 2 days after I started using the new version, I was used to it and accepted it.

You're just a lapdog for The Man so.



(I have no idea what the new version looks like tbh)

caviardreams

Myprotein have up to 30% off impact whey (and other proteins) today (1kg bags anyway, it's less on bigger sizes but for those who like trying a variety of flavours it might suit) in their summer protein sale (no code) - if you go through myprotein.ie you can use HELLOIRELAND for another 15% off

I see they are re-starting the .ie site again - I was sure they actually closed it off a couple of years back after having one several years ago?

Am normally a bulkpowders buyer but I see they put the 1kg bags up in price recently from €19.99 to €21.25, closer to MP's full price - hope MP is as nice.

Alf Veedersane

caviardreams wrote: »

Am normally a bulkpowders buyer but I see they put the 1kg bags up in price recently from €19.99 to €21.25, closer to MP's full price - hope MP is as nice.

Can't say there was a noticeable difference between BP and MP taste-wise.

caviardreams

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Can't say there was a noticeable difference between BP and MP taste-wise.

Good to know - thanks!

Alf Veedersane

caviardreams wrote: »

Good to know - thanks!

I should add that that is comparing just vanilla across the two.

caviardreams

I went for pretty standard flavours anyway, and a few samples of more exotic ones. Once it mixes ok, I am sure it will be fine!

MightyMandarin

DylanJM wrote: »

I keep seeing people say this (mainly on reddit) but I really don't get this attitude at all. What about the other couple of hundred lifters that will be a the Olympics? Just because a few big names won't be there doesn't mean the competition is going to be terrible.

It doesn't mean it's going to be terrible, but it's going to be less fun to watch without seeing the stars going for massive numbers.

It now looks like we won't get to see Ilyin go for Gold medal #3 and Apti won't face off against Okulov, Tian Tao or Rostami. It's the same when the WC final is on and there are star players missing through injury or suspension; it's just not the same without them.

DylanJM

MightyMandarin wrote: »

It doesn't mean it's going to be terrible, but it's going to be less fun to watch without seeing the stars going for massive numbers.

It now looks like we won't get to see Ilyin go for Gold medal #3 and Apti won't face off against Okulov, Tian Tao or Rostami. It's the same when the WC final is on and there are star players missing through injury or suspension; it's just not the same without them.

There will still be loads of top lifters there and there will still be impressive numbers lifted. The 2015 WWC in Houston was still fantastic with a number of records set despite being subjected to very strict testing (probably very similar to the testing that the 2008/12 samples were exposed to).

dylbert

Any MP flavour recommendations? I usually just get vanilla but wanna try something else.

Choc banana

MightyMandarin

DylanJM wrote: »

There will still be loads of top lifters there and there will still be impressive numbers lifted. The 2015 WWC in Houston was still fantastic with a number of records set despite being subjected to very strict testing (probably very similar to the testing that the 2008/12 samples were exposed to).

There will be lots of top lifters but with the apprehension arising from the new testing procedures I seriously doubt we'll see big records going. Athletes and teams will go in and minimise their supplementation beforehand which will almost certainly affect their performance in competition.

The 2015 WWC was quite exciting, but as we saw with Lovchev and Hristov, big names in each class were nabbed. Like I said above, I'd be wary going into Rio if I were the team head for Kazakhstan, Russia etc. because the balance between getting caught and supplementing enough to win is incredibly small.

DylanJM

MightyMandarin wrote: »

There will be lots of top lifters but with the apprehension arising from the new testing procedures I seriously doubt we'll see big records going. Athletes and teams will go in and minimise their supplementation beforehand which will almost certainly affect their performance in competition.

The 2015 WWC was quite exciting, but as we saw with Lovchev and Hristov, big names in each class were nabbed. Like I said above, I'd be wary going into Rio if I were the team head for Kazakhstan, Russia etc. because the balance between getting caught and supplementing enough to win is incredibly small.

I think the 2015 WWC caught a lot of people out with regards to testing. I'm pretty sure there was improvements in testing sensitivity which is why so many were caught at Houston. It is likely that most countries are now aware of the new testing and will adjust accordingly. Lovchev was just one person who broke a record at Houston and got caught but there were other records broken by lifters who went on to pass their tests.

I'm very hopeful for a good Olympics anyway. Ultimately this whole thing will benefit the sport going forward. The timing of retesting left a lot to be desired though. Really the process should have begun in January and have been completed by now. We're now faced with the prospect of only having it completed a month before the games begin.

Dave 101

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTquzDmeAbc

LuckyLloyd

I'm generally not a fan about drugs testing in sport because it tends to be half hearted in nature and often seems politically aimed towards creating an illusion of clean sport rather than cleaning up real sport. As such, I love what the IOC / WADA are doing here by retesting samples going back eight years. Its incredibly aggressive, it changes the goal posts, and it doesn't give two ****s about perceptions. For the first time this is a testing protocol that nods to the fact that pissing clean on comp day or staying barely compliant with out of competition rules doesn't mean "clean".

Weightlifting is a doper sport at the elite level. PEDs are a pre requisite to winning World / Olympic championships. The IWF (having their World Championship in USADA territory within a year of Rio was a real statement of intent imo) and WADA are making a real effort to tackle the problem head on. Unfortunately, I think the best result they can achieve is less drugs rather than no drugs, but I for one have no problem with the consequences of a concerted effort to clean up a sport. No Ilya Ilin; no world records and lower weight lifted across the board will be just fine by me if it means the likes of Kendrick Farris, a genuinely clean athlete who has probably maxed out natural potential in the sport, finishes closer to the medals.

In the same vein, if the IWF had continued turning a blind eye along with the rumoured bribes system that was in place I would have been fine with it too. Either go the whole way, decide you'll throw the big names under the bus if they piss hot or facilitate a nod and a wink status quo.

And in anycase, **** Ilya! It seems the real stars of the sport wear red singlets :P



Either their doping program is decades ahead of everyone else, or their genetic selection processes mean they're using less drugs. Either way, them coming through the 2012 retests clean is highly surprising!

LuckyLloyd

Dave 101 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTquzDmeAbc

Brilliant!!

Dtp1979

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Brilliant!!

Savage it was

MightyMandarin

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Weightlifting is a doper sport at the elite level. PEDs are a pre requisite to winning World / Olympic championships. The IWF (having their World Championship in USADA territory within a year of Rio was a real statement of intent imo) and WADA are making a real effort to tackle the problem head on. Unfortunately, I think the best result they can achieve is less drugs rather than no drugs, but I for one have no problem with the consequences of a concerted effort to clean up a sport. No Ilya Ilin; no world records and lower weight lifted across the board will be just fine by me if it means the likes of Kendrick Farris, a genuinely clean athlete who has probably maxed out natural potential in the sport, finishes closer to the medals.

I'm curious as to why you think he is 'genuinely clean'? His strength levels are similar to that of the elites in his class; he's just quite an inefficient lifter.

Mellor

MightyMandarin wrote: »

It doesn't mean it's going to be terrible, but it's going to be less fun to watch without seeing the stars going for massive numbers.

Massive numbers are great and but I'd prefer a close comp over a new WR anyday. 4 guys with a shot at gold coming into the third round, the medals decided by weight selection and bodyweight. All of that is independent of records.

Somebody being still ahead with his previous lift is boring imo.

DylanJM

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I'm curious as to why you think he is 'genuinely clean'? His strength levels are similar to that of the elites in his class; he's just quite an inefficient lifter.

He's definitely clean. You can see his testing statistics on the USADA website. He has passed 98 drug tests in his career.

Mellor

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I'm curious as to why you think he is 'genuinely clean'? His strength levels are similar to that of the elites in his class; he's just quite an inefficient lifter.

Out of curiosity, Inefficient based on what?
Not disagreeing or anything, just curious.

I'd love to be that inefficient 😢

DylanJM

Mellor wrote: »

Out of curiosity, Inefficient based on what?
Not disagreeing or anything, just curious.

I'd love to be that inefficient 😢

Generally you would want to aim for your snatch and c&j to be 60-65% and 80% of your back squat respectively, although this can depend on what school of thought you subscribe to. His ratio is down on that. He's done 277kg for a set of 5 in the back squat. That would put his 1RM at about 300kg (conservative guess). His best snatch and C&J are 168/211. As a comparison Norik Vardanian (another USA 94kg lifter) did his best ever squat a few months ago with 275kg and about a month ago hit 173/212 in training and has done 180/220 back in 2012.

LuckyLloyd

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I'm curious as to why you think he is 'genuinely clean'? His strength levels are similar to that of the elites in his class; he's just quite an inefficient lifter.

I think his strength levels are a product of surviving injury free in the game long enough to reach his natural potential. He is probably inefficient due to his programming - he very rarely will max out (claims he will only max out on lifts once or twice a year, and the classic lift max outs will be on the platform only). While that is a problem in terms of his best performances, the benefit he has derived in terms of long term health and steady progress (he is still hitting Snatch PRs in competition at 30) probably outweighs it.

In terms of why I think he's genuinely clean my belief is that all USA weightlifters fully compliant with USADA over an extended stretch of time (~12 years in the case of Farris) are clean. They are labouring under the most aggressive out of competition testing regime with no state sponsored 'medical program'; no political interference on testing; and there simply isn't the private money in US weightlifting to trump those points.

Mellor

DylanJM wrote: »

Generally you would want to aim for your snatch and c&j to be 60-65% and 80% of your back squat respectively, although this can depend on what school of thought you subscribe to. His ratio is down on that. He's done 277kg for a set of 5 in the back squat. That would put his 1RM at about 300kg (conservative guess). His best snatch and C&J are 168/211. As a comparison Norik Vardanian (another USA 94kg lifter) did his best ever squat a few months ago with 275kg and about a month ago hit 173/212 in training and has done 180/220 back in 2012.

I understand the important of ratios. But the back squat is not exactly a consist marker. The line from low bar to high bar is a gradient, not a line. If somebody adjusts there bk.sq to lift more. Their clean doesn't change.
I'm speaking in general,I've no idea how he squats 275kg.

What's his front squat max? That's a better marker imo.
If he front squats 270kg (90%) fair enough. I'm talking pony