Sky Ireland Fibre Broadband

ollie103

If Sky are just se-selling Eircom's BB, will the speeds etc be exactly the same and is there any real benefit to going with Sky over Eircom? I'm looking at both at the moment and its hard to choose but Sky appear to have better customer service. I am looking at TV, BB and phone in terms of choosing between Sky or Eircom.

dalta5billion

ollie103 wrote: »

If Sky are just se-selling Eircom's BB, will the speeds etc be exactly the same and is there any real benefit to going with Sky over Eircom? I'm looking at both at the moment and its hard to choose but Sky appear to have better customer service. I am looking at TV, BB and phone in terms of choosing between Sky or Eircom.

Sky use BT Ireland for peering and transit (no idea how good they are at it)
Eircom use Eircom for peering and transit (it has been poorly managed)
The Eircom "core" network seems better managed (and is regulated).

airuser

ollie103 wrote: »

If Sky are just se-selling Eircom's BB, will the speeds etc be exactly the same and is there any real benefit to going with Sky over Eircom? I'm looking at both at the moment and its hard to choose but Sky appear to have better customer service. I am looking at TV, BB and phone in terms of choosing between Sky or Eircom.

You hit one of the "nails on the head". Yes, Sky has a better CS. But, also have a 12 month contract.

I am with Sky. Had both Eircom and Vodafone. left them both because of the CS offered.

Now, have TV,Phone and Fibre BB with Sky. Happy with the service provided.

bk

ollie103 wrote: »

If Sky are just se-selling Eircom's BB, will the speeds etc be exactly the same and is there any real benefit to going with Sky over Eircom? I'm looking at both at the moment and its hard to choose but Sky appear to have better customer service. I am looking at TV, BB and phone in terms of choosing between Sky or Eircom.

Well speeds should be largely the same, but it isn't quiet that simple.

The copper cable between your home and the cab is Eircoms and thus the same.

The cab itself and ISAMs in it are Eircoms and thus the same.

The fibre backhaul from the cab to the exchange is Eircoms and might be the same.

However from the exchange, in most cases it will then be transferred onto BT Irelands network and their international transit, so you may see differences here.

In the past, when Sky first started reselling Eircoms ADSL here in Ireland 2 years ago, they had major problems with congestion on the network, seemingly due to them not buying sufficient capacity. So we will have to wait and see what happens with Sky VDSL. I hope they have learned their lesson from the first time around, but we have to wait and see.

flexcon

bk wrote: »

Just to point out that Sky are simply reselling Eircoms VDSL product. Depending on when the cabinet was installed, you could have signed up to and experienced these high speeds from Eircom, Vodafone, Magnet or Digiweb any time in the past two years!

Sky aren't doing anything special here and in fact are VERY late to the game, which has resulted in them doing a dis-service to their customers!

I totally understand that, I was genuinely on about the customer service side of it. No doubt eircom could offer those speeds also.

I remember though when we were on 3MB broadband from eircom and wanted NGB and they said our line couldn't Support it, 3MB was the maximum.

And then sky came in and bumped it to 9MB. No idea why.

keno-daytrader

I got Sky broadband a few years ago when they first rolled out adsl here, I had massive slowdowns in the evenings, basically I couldnt do anything from 5pm to midnight.

I found their customer service one of the worst experiences Ive ever had dealing with a company. From their support boards to the tech support phone agents, so many had problems back then, it was amazing to see Sky's customer service in action, pathetic.

On a separate issue, I left Sky tv for a while. They sent me a 50% off post card if I returned, so I took them up on the offer, or at least tried to. Agent said he had no record of the correspondence and wouldnt honor it, I asked to speak with a manager and after 30 minutes finally was able to speak with one, she wouldnt honor it either. I wouldnt let it go so spoke to her manager who actually asked me to scan it and email it to her, so I did and was finally given the offer. Hows that for service?

So to me Sky customer service is pathetic and I have no idea where the myth of great Sky customer service comes from.

flexcon

keno-daytrader wrote: »

I got Sky broadband a few years ago when they first rolled out adsl here, I had massive slowdowns in the evenings, basically I couldnt do anything from 5pm to midnight.

I found their customer service one of the worst experiences Ive ever had dealing with a company. From their support boards to the tech support phone agents, so many had problems back then, it was amazing to see Sky's customer service in action, pathetic.

On a separate issue, I left Sky tv for a while. They sent me a 50% off post card if I returned, so I took them up on the offer, or at least tried to. Agent said he had no record of the correspondence and wouldnt honor it, I asked to speak with a manager and after 30 minutes finally was able to speak with one, she wouldnt honor it either. I wouldnt let it go so spoke to her manager who actually asked me to scan it and email it to her, so I did and was finally given the offer. Hows that for service?

So to me Sky customer service is pathetic and I have no idea where the myth of great Sky customer service comes from.

Every company experience is different as you get through to someone different.

That experience sounds pretty crappy though in fairness

My experience has always been fantastic, however that to me is because the guy at the end of the line knows what can and cannot be done and is well informed.

That seems like awful service however sometimes I question do people not respect " procedure "

I work in a customer facing environment and this really bugs me. People get so mad when I say "No" . Simple "No" I cannot do that. Normally I go and say " but let me see can I get someone to get us more detail to why we can't " and this often means the customer leaves a survey back saying I was useless and what an awful company we are.

Shame as we are human beings and we are quite literally there to toe the company line. We aint pretending we are not.

So I would always say the customer service from the Agent is great, although I might not agree with the company practices!

airuser

"So I would always say the customer service from the Agent is great, although I might not agree with the company practices"

I agree with that Flexcon.

When an Agent knows what he can or cannot achieve does help. The blanket "no" or "there is nothing we can do" does put off many and they

get very angry.

For many years I work in a Technical Department with a major Tyre Manufacturer dealing with the both Commercial and general users. The work 'no" was like a red rag to a bull.

" Let us see what we/I can do",did help and solved many problems.

Many CS in SKY and other ISP's work from a script and stick with it. Others have gone the distance and gone further to help.

Over the years I have dealt with SKY have had excellent service all the time.

People I have spoken to have been in a position help.

One problem I will admit to, is the way that SKY handled the launch of Fibre Broadband. With bland answers "we are trialling" and then close the Irish Section on their main Forum. Also, saying they may ban those who kept on asking about Fibre in Ireland.

As we all know SKY could only resell a product already in the market.

That did happen many months later.

They,SKY did lose customers. I did stay as i said because of the Service offered. Of course, the 12 month contract does help

bk

airuser wrote: »

As we all know SKY could only resell a product already in the market.

That did happen many months later.

Not months, 2 years after Eircom launched VDSL and Vodafone, Magnet, Digiweb and o2 all started reselling Eircoms VDSL.

There is really no excuse for Sky holding back this service from their customers for so long. And I've no idea why people would happily support them for such awful practice!

airuser

Yes, I agree.

As I have said many times. The only reason I stayed was the service they gave me over the years. Was close to moving. Had done all the sums.

After sales service was very important to me. It was something lacking with the other ISP(imo) and I have been with the major ones over the years

Avada

airuser wrote: »

"So I would always say the customer service from the Agent is great, although I might not agree with the company practices"

I agree with that Flexcon.

When an Agent knows what he can or cannot achieve does help. The blanket "no" or "there is nothing we can do" does put off many and they

get very angry.

For many years I work in a Technical Department with a major Tyre Manufacturer dealing with the both Commercial and general users. The work 'no" was like a red rag to a bull.

" Let us see what we/I can do",did help and solved many problems.

Many CS in SKY and other ISP's work from a script and stick with it. Others have gone the distance and gone further to help.

Over the years I have dealt with SKY have had excellent service all the time.

People I have spoken to have been in a position help.

One problem I will admit to, is the way that SKY handled the launch of Fibre Broadband. With bland answers "we are trialling" and then close the Irish Section on their main Forum. Also, saying they may ban those who kept on asking about Fibre in Ireland.

As we all know SKY could only resell a product already in the market.

That did happen many months later.

They,SKY did lose customers. I did stay as i said because of the Service offered. Of course, the 12 month contract does help

The problem with Sky CS (and I say this as someone who worked in their BB tech department), is that too many tv tech agents were trained up to work BB tech. Most of them have no interest in doing BB tech, haven't a clue how to read even a simple sync test and no incentive to learn about it. I was one of few who enjoyed doing it and as a result was able to move away from their crap troubleshooting guide and do my job properly.

airuser

Random_Name wrote: »

The problem with Sky CS (and I say this as someone who worked in their BB tech department), is that too many tv tech agents were trained up to work BB tech. Most of them have no interest in doing BB tech, haven't a clue how to read even a simple sync test and no incentive to learn about it. I was one of few who enjoyed doing it and as a result was able to move away from their crap troubleshooting guide and do my job properly.

Well, I must have been very lucky as I said with the Techies I got. Both male and female and have always had a follow up call to check if the problem sorted.
Have had only one Agent who really should have not have gone to work that day. Was totally unhelpful.
Got over that by leaving the call and rang back.

Avada

airuser wrote: »

Well, I must have been very lucky as I said with the Techies I got. Both male and female and have always had a follow up call to check if the problem sorted.
Have had only one Agent who really should have not have gone to work that day. Was totally unhelpful.
Got over that by leaving the call and rang back.

There are some great guys and girls, who are absolutely deadly at their job. But there are too many who haven't a clue what they are doing.

airuser

Random_Name wrote: »

There are some great guys and girls, who are absolutely deadly at their job. But there are too many who haven't a clue what they are doing.

Regrettably that is true with all CS and with some the the supervising staff as well.

A friend's son worked as an agent and when he could only go so far with a problem. Then handed it over. When he questioned what happen was told none of his business.

As many companies out source CS , they the companies do not realise the damage being done to their company image.

Again I will repeat, SKY'S IMO is one of the best.

mass_debater

airuser wrote: »

Again I will repeat, SKY'S IMO is one of the best.

What good is customer service, when something goes wrong which happens quite often to all providers for various reasons (bad or water damaged cabling, low resistance and earths, battery contact and capacitance), their installers (Sierra) cannot fix anything as they do not have access to the cabinet and do not have the equipment or know how to test the cabling between ntu and the cab.

airuser

mass_debater wrote: »

What good is customer service, when something goes wrong which happens quite often to all providers for various reasons (bad or water damaged cabling, low resistance and earths, battery contact and capacitance), their installers (Sierra) cannot fix anything as they do not have access to the cabinet and do not have the equipment or know how to test the cabling between ntu and the cab.

We are now off Sky Fibre.

Will conclude with this. If one knows the problem and a company is trying to have it fixed. Then that does help in response to a complaint. As you state Eircom have control of the infrastructure and that is a problem.

I did have a speed issue several months ago. Eircom has to come and replace a socket. SKY explained this and that it could take a number of days. Accepted that.

Yes, many problems may arise with the cabling, ducting, cabinets etc. Then that is for SKY management to sort with Eircom

What I do not like with CS is. There is nothing more we can do.

One last point about 500m from my cabinets. 66M download. A friend us within 50M. 40M.

I know many factors etc.

That's all

mass_debater

It is utter madness to install VDSL on copper without testing just because Sky want to save themselves a few quid and use their own installers, the customer suffers, their CS has to deal with the mess and soften any complaints. It is not the way it should be installed

Berserker

With UPC at the moment and we are thinking of switching to Sky. UPC have been poor to deal with from a CS point of view. We have a new house built next door to us, less than 50ft away and we have been trying to get them to extend the internet to the new house. Alas, we have had no joy in getting the job done.

So, Sky are happy to do this for us and we are considering binning UPC. What is the speed like with Sky? Last I heard it was dependent on Eircom lines and considerably slower than UPC.

dealhunter1985

Berserker wrote: »

With UPC at the moment and we are thinking of switching to Sky. UPC have been poor to deal with from a CS point of view. We have a new house built next door to us, less than 50ft away and we have been trying to get them to extend the internet to the new house. Alas, we have had no joy in getting the job done.

So, Sky are happy to do this for us and we are considering binning UPC. What is the speed like with Sky? Last I heard it was dependent on Eircom lines and considerably slower than UPC.

I have Sky fibre nearly 2 weeks now.. The speed is pretty decent. Testing it wired, I get about 80 megs a second so no complaints on that front.
But there is one problem I seem to be experiencing. I think it might have something to do with the dns settings. I try to go to a website and the website cannot be found. But then when I try it a second time, it works no problem. This has been happening all day today. Not with every website but with alot of them.. Any ideas anyone?

Irish Steve

dealhunter1985 wrote: »

I have Sky fibre nearly 2 weeks now.. The speed is pretty decent. Testing it wired, I get about 80 megs a second so no complaints on that front.
But there is one problem I seem to be experiencing. I think it might have something to do with the dns settings. I try to go to a website and the website cannot be found. But then when I try it a second time, it works no problem. This has been happening all day today. Not with every website but with alot of them.. Any ideas anyone?

I do a lot of work with a number of customers, using different networks, both wired and wireless, and I am seeing the same issue with all of them. The same issue of pages not being found is common to all of them, and the conclusion I am coming to is that there is a major issue that is upstream from the Internet providers which is causing all of the services to suffer lost packets that results in the sort of issue you're seeing.

Another possible scenario is that there are problems with DNS resolution servers, which are also used by all providers. If they are being attacked, by distributed denial of service attacks, they may well be unable to handle the legitimate load from genuine services, and the same result would follow.

What is clear is that the problems with failed page returns is common across providers that don't have any shared service usage at the user level, so that means that the problems are in the underlying service structure that is not the responsibility of the network providers.

the other very real possibility is that there is a problem with an overall lack of capacity on the core interconnections between the services in Ireland and then onward out of Ireland.

Either way, while it's possible and appropriate to complain to the service providers, I think it's appropriate to mention that you're aware that the problem is wider than just the individual provider.

airuser

dealhunter1985 wrote: »

I have Sky fibre nearly 2 weeks now.. The speed is pretty decent. Testing it wired, I get about 80 megs a second so no complaints on that front.
But there is one problem I seem to be experiencing. I think it might have something to do with the dns settings. I try to go to a website and the website cannot be found. But then when I try it a second time, it works no problem. This has been happening all day today. Not with every website but with alot of them.. Any ideas anyone?

Has happened to me also. Couple of weeks ago had it go for 3 hours. Did report it but by the time they came back. All had corrected it self.

I working from a Mac and thought it may be the browser, but know.

Was able to change the DNS on the iPad. However, no help at all.

My email was working.

Was able to stream the radio.

Checked the Samknows Box later on. No break in connection was show and the router showed i was still connected

airuser

Forgot to say that I could connect to websites in my history. Say Apple site and get into anything on that site. But clearing the history, then could get anything to work.

airuser

Berserker wrote: »

With UPC at the moment and we are thinking of switching to Sky. UPC have been poor to deal with from a CS point of view. We have a new house built next door to us, less than 50ft away and we have been trying to get them to extend the internet to the new house. Alas, we have had no joy in getting the job done.

So, Sky are happy to do this for us and we are considering binning UPC. What is the speed like with Sky? Last I heard it was dependent on Eircom lines and considerably slower than UPC.

With Sky syncing at 71.696 and getting 67.000., upload syncing around 19.000 getting 18.000.

Had my system up and running in just over 7 working days.

dalta5billion

Irish Steve wrote: »

I do a lot of work with a number of customers, using different networks, both wired and wireless, and I am seeing the same issue with all of them. The same issue of pages not being found is common to all of them, and the conclusion I am coming to is that there is a major issue that is upstream from the Internet providers which is causing all of the services to suffer lost packets that results in the sort of issue you're seeing.

Another possible scenario is that there are problems with DNS resolution servers, which are also used by all providers. If they are being attacked, by distributed denial of service attacks, they may well be unable to handle the legitimate load from genuine services, and the same result would follow.

What is clear is that the problems with failed page returns is common across providers that don't have any shared service usage at the user level, so that means that the problems are in the underlying service structure that is not the responsibility of the network providers.

the other very real possibility is that there is a problem with an overall lack of capacity on the core interconnections between the services in Ireland and then onward out of Ireland.

Either way, while it's possible and appropriate to complain to the service providers, I think it's appropriate to mention that you're aware that the problem is wider than just the individual provider.

I do get occasional page hangs with Eircom (although I can't rule out WiFi issues). What you're describing could be phantom bit-flipping somewhere.

Ala this http://blog.edgecast.com/post/110230974176/being-good-stewards-of-the-internet

degsie

dalta5billion wrote: »

Ala this http://blog.edgecast.com/post/110230974176/being-good-stewards-of-the-internet

Death by PowerPoint more like!

Irish Steve

dalta5billion wrote: »

I do get occasional page hangs with Eircom (although I can't rule out WiFi issues). What you're describing could be phantom bit-flipping somewhere.

Ala this http://blog.edgecast.com/post/110230974176/being-good-stewards-of-the-internet

Yes, that sort of scenario, given that multiple ISP's are affected by the same issue.

As for finding out where the problem is, and getting it fixed, that's a horse of a very different colour, most of the tech support people I end up talking to are out of their depth when I start asking for router access passwords, if powering down the device and rebooting the computer doesn't fix it, they're out of their scripts, and can't help, and getting escalated to a higher level of support to actually resolve the problem can be a massive issue, and if it turns out to be outside of their own local network, too often, the response is that "they can't fix it", which is not exactly helpful, given that they are using the service, so should have some form of service level agreement with the provider of the service to repair it when issues arise.

Long time ago now, I had to run wireshark captures on a problem with Eircom and E-Bay, and do an in depth anaylsis of the logs that were produced, and it eventually turned out to be a server within Eircom that was caching static Irish content for E-Bay, but had crashed, and wasn't serving part of page content. Took over a week of increasingly bared claws to get to the right people at Eircom, though once I had got there, and had been involved for a couple of hours with them, they did at least do the decent thing, and give me a direct access number for future issues, which did make it easier to get the complex issues resolved. It required a complete rebuild and reload of the server to fix the issue, which took 3 days, and in the meantime, they put alternative routing in to their system to avoid that server.

Given the wide range of sites I see this page lock up happening with, the number of different operating systems and hardware platforms that are affected, and the regular yet unpredictable frequency of the problem, I don't think that it's down to Sky, or Eircom, or UPC, or Imagine or Vodafone or Ripplecom, and I'm working with most of these services on a regular basis, it's further back up the line in the core provision services that are being used by all of these service providers.

As for how we fix it, I don't have a good suggestion, as often, the end user can't easily find out who to talk to at the core service providers, if they even have a support presence in Ireland. and they often won't talk to end users about wide area network issues, they will only deal with service providers. Catch 22 for the people that are being directly affected by the problems, especially when the support teams at the service providers don't have a clue what you're complaining about.

airuser

Why has this happening since Fibre was installed ?

Am I asking a stupid question ?

The Sparrow

I have noticed something similar since switching from regular sky broadband to fibre a few days ago. When I'm browing between pages (usually on the same site) I will get Problem loading page, Server Error.

When I refresh, I get the same for at least the next couple of minutes until it eventually works. This is on Firefox, if I switch to Chrome I have been able to load the page that wouldn't load on Firefox without issue.

Although, theoretically, the same pattern could occur using Chrome but I don't use it enough to know. It is very annoying though.

dealhunter1985

The problem hasnt gone away for me anyways.
Would changing the dns servers be worth a go?

dalta5billion

dealhunter1985 wrote: »

The problem hasnt gone away for me anyways.
Would changing the dns servers be worth a go?

Yes.