Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

sparrowcar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121857839#Comment_121857839

Correct. Part of the Photovoltaic Farm project.

DumbBrunette

I'm not sure if the members of the forum here are familiar with this video, it explains the controversy over noise and flight paths from the North runway incredibly well. I didn't fully understand it until now!

https://youtu.be/v6pCTfXS0Cw?si=bWIBQBcQ7niI8vgP

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121858933#Comment_121858933

I’m not even going to begin to start picking out the flaws in that argument! Whoever made it does know more than a lot of people about the topic tbf, but nowhere near as much as they think! I’ll leave it at that.

moonshy2022

Clearly they haven’t read or have will fully ignored DOC 8168.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121859086#Comment_121859086

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860246#Comment_121860246

For those of us who don’t work in the sector, perhaps could you both elaborate at some point?

There is so much disinformation floating about that it is helpful to clearly explain your point.

jwm121

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121839300#Comment_121839300

How many movements per hour do they currently operate with and would increasing the capacity to 40 million bring movements per hour to 80 million?

Karppi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860246#Comment_121860246

It's just about the most impervious document (Vol II, anyway) I have ever had the misfortune to try and understand. I am persuaded that it was written by a cabal of flight procedure writers whose top priority was to make it impossibly difficult for Muggles to comprehend (with apologies to JK Rowling)

Karppi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860749#Comment_121860749

In the busiest hours, runway capacity can be up to 52 movements per hour. But (and it's a fairly big "but") the capacity varies throughout the day - it's demand driven, so you can have very busy hours but they usually have to be followed by a lower hour, to avoid delays accumulating. It's a fascinating subject - well, I think so!

The attached document shows how the capacities, across multiple "processors", are determined. And what they are for this summer - pages 20 and 21

https://www.iaa.ie/docs/default-source/car-documents/1c-economic-regulation/final-decision-on-summer-2024-coordination-parameters-at-dublin-airport975cbf71-c956-422e-bec7-647e6734d1fa.pdf?sfvrsn=967aeef3_2

would increasing the capacity to 40 million bring movements per hour to 80 million?

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean??

Qaanaaq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860388#Comment_121860388

I think the video is actually quite good and seems like a lot of research has gone into it, I'm no expert though.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121858933#Comment_121858933

As the video shows it’s not just a “few” people affected.

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860388#Comment_121860388

7.1.9.1 sorry phone won’t allow me to copy it.

7.2 and 7.5

one of only a few sections that are legally required to be applied.

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860388#Comment_121860388

Sorry just getting to this now. You’re regular enough on this forum, it’s been discussed to death in the past by multiple posters in detail, I’m sure you’ve seen some of those posts. I don’t really want a long post clogging up the thread but the video while well intended and well put together uses selective examples, contradicts itself a number of times and cites old planning submissions that were amended prior to the runway being built. Like I said, the person who made it knows what their on about, but I think let’s personal opinion and emotion dictate the direction of the video. However, the current SIDs can and I think should be slightly amended to allow a speed greater than 210kts, which will reduce noise further! But for now the turn remains.

Qaanaaq

What is preventing a change to the missed approach procedure on 28L to a left turn other than involving work to be done with various different stakeholders? Have they just chosen the least hassle option just for the regulator's workload.

The guy in the video has a point to be honest, missed approaches are quite rare compared to the volume of departures required to make the deviation.

I would much rather a commitment to change this if it could help remove the passenger cap, even though the issues are not connected. But it could be a good ace to play !

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864438#Comment_121864438

I may be regular enough, but I have very little technical knowledge about flying!

Scheduling, yes, but flying no! Things do tend to get lost in this thread, and hence I asked the question.

I appreciate the answer!

Karppi

r

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864584#Comment_121864584

Regardless of how rare they might be, a go around from 28L has to be allowed for and a missed approach procedure devised that meets the regulations. My understanding is that, using all the conditions applicable in the ICAO docs (especially climb rates, I think) the go around would conflict with the restricted area around Baldonnel.

IngazZagni

That is correct. I think it all boils down to Baldonnel. The simulation in that video is all well and good but it's not using the requirements set out by the regulators in Europe. I do think a solution could be found by modifying Baldonnels airspace or Dublin taking responsibility for some of their airspace and as traffic is relatively limited there I don't think it's an impossible task.

andy_g

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866033#Comment_121866033

Also in the video it mentioned a A320 which I operate for my airline.

It looks like it was light for that simulation if you have A320 neat to MLWT ie, a emergency landing etc it won't meet the climb requirements.

Video was flown in configuration of full flap to above 3000ft and not accounting for thrust reduction altitude which at Dublin is around 1700ft for flap retraction.

Thrust reduction occurs normally 1500ft AMSL.

moonshy2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864584#Comment_121864584

Safety safety safety. Nothing more nothing less, suggesting it’s about least hassle is disingenuous and borderline ignorant.

Im not sure what point you think he is making but you’ve been swayed by someone who has a little bit of knowledge and is stretching it very far. Unfortunately there is a huge amount of issues with it, far too many to list without losing the audience with a long boring post.

A left turn missed approach does not fit with modern international laws and would never be approved locally or internationally. Airlines wouldn’t accept it and neither would their insurers as a result. Simply he applies a normal operating aircraft to his suggestion, where as international law prescribes the climb gradient of an aircraft in distress as its basis to protect the aircraft and everyone around it.

Economics101

moonshy2022, you say: "A left turn missed approach does not fit with modern international laws and would never be approved locally or internationally. Airlines wouldn’t accept it and neither would their insurers as a result."

I presume when 10L is the landing runway and 10R is used for takeoffs, that the missed approach for 10L involves a left turn, so as not to conflict with takeoffs from 10R.

IngazZagni

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121869289#Comment_121869289

That's correct because there is no airspace interefering with such a manoeuvre to the north unlike to the south of the airport.

HTCOne

You have to factor in the aircraft conducting the missed approach may have reduced power/engine failure or other damage affecting the climb performance. Baldonnel airspace is a big issue as mentioned. The reservations in that area are complex and variable. You don't want a commercial aircraft entering into a Danger Area, the military could be up to anything in there (live firing, jamming GPS etc).

I do agree ICAO/EASA Docs/Annexes etc are tough reading, feel sorry for those of us who have to understand and operate by them.

jwm121

What was the building work that went on on foxtrot outer after pier D after the north runway was built for? I see now they are doing work just below pier d around link 5 so flights have to go down and around the remote stands

Kermit.de.frog

This ridiculous cap needs to be done away with. Increasing it to just 40 million doesn't deal with the problem because airlines will still see a cap and know we will be in the exact same situation in 3 - 5 years and thus they won't have confidence they can commit long term growth to Dublin.

What is going on now is so damaging to aviation in this country, one of the rare areas Ireland has genuinely excelled and produced talent in, a crucial part of the whole economy.

Our reputation is being tarnished. We look stupid and we are already paying the consequences at the expense of places like Manchester (the biggest winners who can scarcely hide their laughter).

What a stupid fcuking country this is.

It's hard to hide the anger at the whole thing.

Our key national gateway is closed for new business because of a local county council.

bikeman1

I see Royal Jordanian Airlines have launched their first Manchester - Amman flight, which will run three times weekly. Not sure if we would be in the market for that destination, but when we can't even look at new operators, then what hope do we have.

The cap must go immediately.

dublin12367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121882662#Comment_121882662

Considering DUB is a one world hub it wouldn’t have been surprising for DUB to have gotten the route, cap aside.

jwm121

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121882662#Comment_121882662

Not to mention increases recently from Turkish, Cathay, Egypt Air, Hainan, Air Transat, Euro wings and more all of which besides Cathay fly to Dublin

Starting to gain a hatred for Manchester out of jealousy

dublin12367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121884004#Comment_121884004

Not Manchesters fault at all. Fair play to them for mopping up all they can and more power to them. Ireland is happy to turn away this business for the foreseeable so direct your hatred/ anger at the daa, fingal cc and the government. Not Manchester.

Qaanaaq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121884041#Comment_121884041

Yep, Fair play to them. In fact i think EI should consider adding some more long haul aircraft to MAN in 2025. At least they have Manchester to fall back on. Lots of other North American routes they could launch from MAN.

dublin12367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121884473#Comment_121884473

I’d say watch this space in relation to an EI expansion at man for 2025.

jwm121

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121884041#Comment_121884041

What is the current status on the cap? I heard Fingal cc were suppose to make a decision by february 14th but havent heard much on it or anything else