Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

bikeman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121884737#Comment_121884737

There’s a local election coming up. Those councillors will do nothing until that’s done. By that stage we will be doing well to get plans in place for 2025.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121884876#Comment_121884876

Planning isn't decided by councillors.

The council asked for more info

x567

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121884041#Comment_121884041

The blanket assumptions of equivalence between DUB and Manchester here really need calling out. You are implying that all things being equal, it would be a straight choice for airlines between services to DUB or to MAN. This isn't realistic.

The hard reality is that Manchester is at a strategic point in a major motorway network, a national railway network and a large conurbation centre within a country with ~10x the population of our Island. Manchester is a relatively easy trip for quite a high proportion of Great Britain’s c.65m population - anyone north of Watford can probably get to Manchester as easily as they can to Gatwick (for secondary / holiday traffic); and much of the UK population outside of London is cost conscious and will seek out cheaper options. This has to be a major consideration in any prospective airline’s thinking, however poor the Manchester airport experience might be. Dublin can’t compete on level terms with this, cap or no cap.

Qaanaaq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121884737#Comment_121884737

It's sent back to DAA with a load of questions. And they have 6 months to respond. I think there are gaps in the detail in a number of areas.

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121884956#Comment_121884956

Furthermore, the demography/ethnic mix and travel market from MAN have significant differences from DUB. MAN has had good connections to the Middle East and Asia for a lot longer than Dublin, and historically had pretty good connections to Europe back when Dublin's links were very limited. Relative to the catchment population, Dublin is now actually well provided for, IMO, though you wouldn't think so if you were to go by a lot of the posts here.

DublinKev

When we can’t even get a runway that we spent a billion euro on fully open 18 months after it officially opened I think this says everything we need to know about all the authorities involved. Bureaucratic bungling at best. At worst, you have to say the mind boggles.

dublin12367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121884956#Comment_121884956

in 2023 Dublin had nearly 6m more passengers compared to man. 33.5 and 28m respectively. Up to 2022, Dublin had 1 main 2.6km runway compared to 2 main runways at MAN totalling 3.05km each. They do compete and Dublin did compete quite well up to now.

Their short haul network is quite similar. Dublin has a major route network long haul west, where as MAN is majorly east.

I’m in no way saying that everything Manchester is getting now would have went to Dublin if there was no cap but that it is likely we would have seen similar expansion to Manchester had there been no cap.

Every year between 2014-2019 both airports grew at a similar rate. Manchester will continue to grow in 2024 and beyond , particularly in 2025 when T2 is completed while Dublin will remain static.

Without the cap, both would likely continue to grow at the same pace.

With the cap, Manchester will continue to get the routes it would have got on its own already but now with extra frequencies compared to if there wasn’t a cap in Dublin and more easily. They will also get extra routes destined for DUB that MAN may have been behind Dublin in the airline expansion plan, of which DUB have to turn away due to being at artificial capacity.

x567

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885141#Comment_121885141

Again, I think you’re comparing an apple to a walnut. Dublin is the capital city of a nation and its business hub; Manchester the 3rd city of a much bigger one where the nation’s dominant business airline is elsewhere. The two airports just happen to be relatively nearby, geographically, and similar in scale, but are separated by a stretch of water which stops them competing for the most profitable O&D traffic. And runway lengths are pretty irrelevant above certain minima in this context.

If their growth stats are comparable, that’s probably coincidental, not an indicator of being competitors. Your assumption that the cap is stopping DUB growing at the same rate as Manchester is simply that, an assumption.

Sorry to disagree, but I’ve grown quite weary of the DUB/MAN argument on this particular thread lately.

Idbatterim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121882025#Comment_121882025

can you blame the morons in the council though? I blame national government more... They allow the farce...

Idbatterim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885010#Comment_121885010

questions like what? this all relates to road access? why dont DAA ask why government, stopped a serious mass transit solution to the airport, that would have taken a serious amount of motor traffic out of the airport? I am assuming, the local authority, dont even know how many are accessing the airport by car v other modes?

or start charging for airport access... E4 or 5 per entry... and then they can stick the cap...

Qaanaaq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885512#Comment_121885512

Someone posted the link to the planning decision website on boards.ie, I think back in February. I couldn’t open it for some reason but the poster gave some broad outline some of the requests for more data.

some were related to growth projections with insufficient evidence/data provided

some others were related to environmental studies and that kind of thing.

jwm121

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885762#Comment_121885762

Surely DAA should be pretty quick with a response considering they want this cap gone just as much as any of us do

jwm121

Apologies if this has been asked before but why does DUB only operate the south runway in low visibility? I heard something before about not having a cert to operate both runways in low vis or maybe it's because of atc staff shortages? It's been almost 2 years since the new runway opened, surely they should be onto doing parallel departures and landings by now? Maybe it's normal for dual runways to take this long to get fully certified/operational in that way, not sure myself

Qaanaaq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885434#Comment_121885434

I don’t fully agree with you. I’d say Manchester is clearly Dublins main HUB competitor. A lot of the feed that feeds the DUB HUB comes from the North of England.

Dublin has a home base of Aer Lingus and Ryanair, that is certainly an advantage. It’s also an important designated HUB for IAG. Manchester doesn’t really have a big home base airline.

Manchester does have a denser population catchment area, but the biggest percentage of traffic are clearly holiday routes. North America used to have better connections but not anymore. But Manchester are trying to get this business back and expand it.

Dublin is punching well above its weight considering it’s direct population catchment area compared to Manchester.

Dublin has also benefited from increased travel taxes ex UK which has made connections via Dublin attractive on price.

if Manchester ever got the full range of North American destinations and frequencies, then Dublin could loose a big advantage.

so in summary, both airports have different pros and cons for each other. Hopefully both will flourish.

davetherave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885512#Comment_121885512

https://planning.agileapplications.ie/fingal/application-details/96644#conditions

Scroll down to the conditions sections, there are 85 "questions" or requests for further info from the council to DAA. The cap increase is part of a bigger planning application as a result of projects to: North Apron, South Apron, Terminal 1 Search area, a new apron in the north west of the airport, the under the runway tunnel, Airfield Drainage, Ground Transport/Bus Station, Terminal 2 Multistory carpark expansion, Red car park, staff car park north, and road junction improvements

Qaanaaq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885848#Comment_121885848

I just scrolled about 10 of the 85 responses thanks to the link sent by davetherave, these are not quick questions to answer. It will take quite some time to put this together. Months rather than weeks I’d guess.

IngazZagni

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885434#Comment_121885434

I would also disagree with you. Whilst the type of traffic may differ in both airports and the type of destinations, the overall passenger numbers and growth have been rather similar for the last 20 years with Dublin typically around 10% bigger than Manchester passenger wise. February is quite an interesting statistic because it shows a huge difference in growth levels between the airports were typically they would mirror each other. Manchester grew over 14% last month while Dublin was only up very marginally probably due to the leap year. Sure, they might not he competitors but the airports are comparable in the sense of when the airline industry grows, both these airports do and vice versa. It'll be interesting to monitor this trend going into the summer but its clear the cap is having an affect already.

xper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881643#Comment_121881643

Construction of taxiway E2 joining Link 6 to Rwy 16/34 plus widening of the apron between Link 5 and Link 6 with wider fillets at taxiway junctions to permit the centreline of F OUTER to be moved slightly westward. Some permanent changes to the aircraft stands at the west end of Pier 1 (formerly Pier D) and in the remote stands triangle between Piers 1 and 2 as well.

I don't think E2 is actually in use yet. Bing Maps shows E2 in partially constructed state some time ago but it is fully connected to the runway now and on the airport chart, though I believe there is a NOTAM saying it is not open for use yet.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885861#Comment_121885861

Delay is on Airnavs side. They were, possibly still are, massively understaffed

Karppi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885031#Comment_121885031

The north runway cost "us" nothing. The daa spent €320m (not a €1 billion) and will recover the cost through the passenger charge, spread over future years.

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121887408#Comment_121887408

I think this is an important distinction. The DAA operates commercially.

We can get all upset about the Children's Hospital debacle, but at least the airport isnt wasting/using our taxes.

dublin12367

Nighttime flight court case adjourned until June pending ABP decision. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-41352502.html

Captain_Crash

Welcome to JetBlue, just watched both arrive almost one after the other! Wonderful to have a new operator at the airport!

Idbatterim

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2024/03/14/aer-lingus-chief-criticises-daa-for-not-lodging-interim-application-to-lift-passenger-cap/

Just imagine for one minute, that we had a metro to the airport, this would shift huge numbers out of the car and to public transport to get to the airport, yet this total insanity cap would still be there... We need air connectivity here, if they are concerned about emissions, maybe do something about areas that generate massive emissions, when there could be reasonable alternatives, like imagine there was a proper transport system, maybe the morons should have got the ball rolling on that twenty plus years ago...

correct me if I am wrong, the council will approve or reject it, it will then go to ABP either way, correct?

jwm121

Croke Park has been reserved as a venue to view the match in for the Europa League final in May, Aviva already handles 50k people so with Croke Park's 80k+ capacity that's over 120k people coming to Dublin to see that match and they still think it won't be enough seats. A lot of Irish supporters will be there but that's also a lot of people travelling into the airport and with the cap how exactly is that going to pan out? Airlines will surely need to put on more flights for increased numbers of people travelling... interesting to see what happens

Idbatterim

If they break the cap, the fines would likely be far less than the benefits...

https://www.dublinairport.com/latest-news/2024/03/05/2.1-million-passengers-through-dublin-airport%27s-terminals-in-february

passenger numbers up five percent in February...

dublin12367

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-41352424.html

Two very interesting quotes in this article from Leo.

“He said: "The terminals have capacity for 40 million [people], at least based on the information I've been given. It's been more a case of how you manage the traffic in and around the airport, staff getting to from the airport, passengers getting to and from the airport.”

and

“So it is incumbent on the Daa to come forward with its plans to show how to manage the terminals, show how to manage access to and from the airport and also show how to manage noise concerns," said Mr Varadkar.”

One would think he’s planning on intervening?

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121898218#Comment_121898218

No, he is signalling to the parties what he'd like them to do. He does this regularly on issues where Govt cannot legally intervene - in this case because of the independence of the planning system from politicians.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121898321#Comment_121898321

But if the planners get mad and incompetent enough, then the Governmant has to intervene.

Idbatterim

I've never had issues getting into or out of the airport! Non! The carnage with congestion, is on the m50 or going through town to the airport at peak times. A city gridlocked due to the government and its the airport which isn't gridlocked that they have issues with? Lol...