Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

Stephen Strange

It's the new transfer facility I believe.

The Veteran

It is the new transfer facility; due to open this Summer. There will be no a380 in Dublin (scheduled) for a good few years yet.

Locker10a

Sorry for the ignorance, but what is this new transfer facility? Is it basically a link to take you from the upper lever arrivals corridor down to the ground floor pre-clearance for us flights ?

Kev11491

Locker10a wrote: »

Sorry for the ignorance, but what is this new transfer facility? Is it basically a link to take you from the upper lever arrivals corridor down to the ground floor pre-clearance for us flights ?

I believe people arriving from whats considered to be first state countries like EU/US/Canada, whose security checks at the airport of origin meet standards required here, so they don't need to be screened again.

Kermit.de.frog

Shn99 wrote: »

is this the a380 gate under construction?
https://ibb.co/hXRj0S

Looks like, after building an underspec terminal 2, with a half decent design the airport is going to fall back to tacking on bits and pieces making it a dog's dinner like terminal 1.

Why in the name of god we can not build proper infrastructure, like credible countries, to facilitate future needs is beyond me.

Same happening with the new metro.

Nothing ever changes - what's the cheapest and smallest we can get a way with.:rolleyes:

Because it's not built to an appropriate scale in the beginning you end up having to do nonsense like this which only costs more in the long run.

Noxegon

Speaking as a regular passenger I think the DAA do a fine job with Dublin Airport.

Kermit.de.frog

moloner4 wrote: »

Unfortunately it'll have nothing to do with A380 as it's solely for transfer facility.

Can't build large infrastructure as DAA are focused on their objectives, but don't have a large budget as one thinks. Aer Lingus and Ryanair are the main users of Dublin Airport, these two big airlines both demand the lowest charges off the DAA and that means the DAA doesn't get as large budget for large scale development. I'd say the second runway is their biggest objective atm, but they need to finance it over several years and probably can't afford another large scale project at the same time.

Compare this to Heathrow or Zurich airport, lovely airports that are well built and IMO function much better than Dublin airport. But you can see when booking your ticket airport charges are sufficiently higher for these airports.

IMO the problem is we pay so little for airport in Dublin, it's very difficult to have great infrastructure projects if the airlines aren't paying the costs behind them. And at the end of the day people prefer lower charges than nicer airport.

BTW the metro is with the government, not the DAA>

I know, I was referring to infrastructure in Ireland in general. We just seem to lack the proper forward planning capacity.

Penny pinching on large projects is never a good idea.

Jamie2k9

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I know, I was referring to infrastructure in Ireland in general. We just seem to lack the proper forward planning capacity.

Penny pinching on large projects is never a good idea.

Well to be fair, who would of guessed the low cost carrier Aer Lingus losing hundreds of millions per year would move to develop a hub 10 years later. Yes the daa make some mistakes and while T2 had mistakes the fact its usage has increasingly moved away from what it was designed for not really much the daa can do but add bits to accommodate transit.

Your point about general infrastructure is spot on.

The Veteran

The Tranfer Facility is designed to allow passengers arrive off flight A and proceed to depart on flight B without going landside. The current T2 facility is handling approx 2,500 passengers a day in the Summer. Aer Lingus wants to grow this. Plus the facility is built to take bussing this opening up airside bus transfers from Terminal 1 which will make sense if Ryanair and Aer Lingus interline

Tenger

The Veteran wrote: »

..............Plus the facility is built to take bussing this opening up airside bus transfers from Terminal 1 which will make sense if Ryanair and Aer Lingus interline

You know, I hadnt even thought about that issue.
Pier D to T2 transfer facility.
I wonder will it be a bus meeting each FR arrival dropping them of to this new facility so they can enter T2 departures.

The Veteran

Not a bus meeting each flight but similar to the LHR scenario or a dedicated “Gate” that is serviced by buses on a loop.

It also wouldn’t be just T2 departures but likely all departures.

LXFlyer

Tenger wrote: »

You know, I hadnt even thought about that issue.
Pier D to T2 transfer facility.
I wonder will it be a bus meeting each FR arrival dropping them of to this new facility so they can enter T2 departures.

I was thinking that there would have to be some way of bypassing T1 immigration - I have to admit that it was one of the first issues that came into my head when I heard of this interlining proposal.

MJohnston

LXFlyer wrote: »

I was thinking that there would have to be some way of bypassing T1 immigration - I have to admit that it was one of the first issues that came into my head when I heard of this interlining proposal.

A question on this - in LHR when you made a bus transfer you'd still have to go through security in Terminal 1 and T5. Is that just something unique to the paranoia of Heathrow, or could the hypothetical DUB transfer system just be organised differently?

LiamaDelta

MJohnston wrote: »

A question on this - in LHR when you made a bus transfer you'd still have to go through security in Terminal 1 and T5. Is that just something unique to the paranoia of Heathrow, or could the hypothetical DUB transfer system just be organised differently?

I'm pretty sure the international requirement is that you must be security screened in each country your flight departs from (unless you stay on the plane). I've never yet boarded a flight when transferring without passing through security again.

The Veteran

In the UK the Dept of Transport there requires that all persons departing the UK on an aircraft be screened in that airport. That means everyone transferring has to do security in LHR or wherever.

DUB operates on the basis that if you are arriving from a State with equivalent (or higher) standards then there is no need to re-screen in Dublin unless you mix with Third State passengers. So, to avoid the need to screen in the new Transfers facility any Third State arrivals (essentially Emirates in T2 terms) will be kept segregated from the rest as far as Transfers go.

This will throw up complications for those coming from T1 who might mix with Etihad, Qatar or Turkish passengers. Don’t know aboutbCathay and Hainan in terms of the security accreditation levels.

LXFlyer

LiamaDelta wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the international requirement is that you must be security screened in each country your flight departs from (unless you stay on the plane). I've never yet boarded a flight when transferring without passing through security again.

That’s certainly not the case.

Zurich is certainly one airport where if arriving from Dublin you don’t get re-screened for security.

The Veteran

In the UK the Dept of Transport there requires that all persons departing the UK on an aircraft be screened in that airport. That means everyone transferring has to do security in LHR or wherever.

DUB operates on the basis that if you are arriving from a State with equivalent (or higher) standards then there is no need to re-screen in Dublin unless you mix with Third State passengers. So, to avoid the need to screen in the new Transfers facility any Third State arrivals (essentially Emirates in T2 terms) will be kept segregated from the rest as far as Transfers go.

This will throw up complications for those coming from T1 who might mix with Etihad, Qatar or Turkish passengers. Don’t know aboutbCathay and Hainan in terms of the security accreditation levels.

LiamaDelta

The Veteran wrote: »

In the UK the Dept of Transport there requires that all persons departing the UK on an aircraft be screened in that airport. That means everyone transferring has to do security in LHR or wherever.

DUB operates on the basis that if you are arriving from a State with equivalent (or higher) standards then there is no need to re-screen in Dublin unless you mix with Third State passengers. So, to avoid the need to screen in the new Transfers facility any Third State arrivals (essentially Emirates in T2 terms) will be kept segregated from the rest as far as Transfers go.

This will throw up complications for those coming from T1 who might mix with Etihad, Qatar or Turkish passengers. Don’t know aboutbCathay and Hainan in terms of the security accreditation levels.

Thanks, that must be where I got that from as most of my transiting is either in LHR or non-EU.

Jamie2k9

The Veteran wrote: »

The Tranfer Facility is designed to allow passengers arrive off flight A and proceed to depart on flight B without going landside. The current T2 facility is handling approx 2,500 passengers a day in the Summer. Aer Lingus wants to grow this. Plus the facility is built to take bussing this opening up airside bus transfers from Terminal 1 which will make sense if Ryanair and Aer Lingus interline

I've still not worked out where they will enter the retail area after getting processed there. Any idea?

goingnowhere

LXFlyer wrote: »

That’s certainly not the case.

Zurich is certainly one airport where if arriving from Dublin you don’t get re-screened for security.

Amsterdam is another. CDG T2 you can avoid security on intra Schengen/EU connections

For the record the UK rules are screening must be conducted at a UK airport so if you fly Belfast - LHR - elsewhere no security check at LHR apart from the biometrics thing which is tracking and not security, but if you fly from Dublin you will be rescreened (there are separate channels in T5 for Int, domestic and ROI)

Of course the screening standard is the same EU wide so why the UK does this is anyones guess (if they followed the rules it would make LHR a nice airport to change at...)

LiamaDelta

goingnowhere wrote: »

Amsterdam is another. CDG T2 you can avoid security on intra Schengen/EU connections

I've never not re-screened at AMS. I only use it for International flights or point to point, not for EU xfers.

The Veteran

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I've still not worked out where they will enter the retail area after getting processed there. Any idea?

THE passengers who transfer will emerge into Pier 4 Departures on the left hand side as you walk out the Pier just before the large swing gate that is in place (which if closed allows the remainder of the Pier become part of the Pre-Clearmace area). So, they won’t access the main retail area unless they choose to do so.

goingnowhere

LiamaDelta wrote: »

I've never not re-screened at AMS. I only use it for International flights or point to point, not for EU xfers.

Rules at AMS are
US/CA/EU to anywhere, no screening. I've never been screened arriving from Dublin to go onwards to either EU or beyond EU
They added a another floor to the terminal to split passengers up

The setup in Dublin currently is good, but if they could provide certainty no security check was required it would be great. The token check in the CBP area appears to be more for food than anything else

Jamie2k9

The Veteran wrote: »

THE passengers who transfer will emerge into Pier 4 Departures on the left hand side as you walk out the Pier just before the large swing gate that is in place (which if closed allows the remainder of the Pier become part of the Pre-Clearmace area). So, they won’t access the main retail area unless they choose to do so.

I taught this was the set up but then felt it wasn't very daa approach!!

Will be great for tight transfers and also a selling point of how quick/easy the process is.

HTCOne

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Looks like, after building an underspec terminal 2, with a half decent design the airport is going to fall back to tacking on bits and pieces making it a dog's dinner like terminal 1.

Why in the name of god we can not build proper infrastructure, like credible countries, to facilitate future needs is beyond me.

Same happening with the new metro.

Nothing ever changes - what's the cheapest and smallest we can get a way with.:rolleyes:

Because it's not built to an appropriate scale in the beginning you end up having to do nonsense like this which only costs more in the long run.

I hope, pray they show some foresight within the next decade and build a T3 at the far western end of the airfield, a-la T5 at LHR, allowing them to build toast racks moving east as and when required in the following years with subterranean trains linking them again like T5, along with an underground train between the 3 terminals with a stop at the metro.

But that would be the most efficient thing to do for aircraft, and wouldn’t have airside cul de sacs clogging everything up, and they do so love their cul de sacs in DUB

LiamaDelta

goingnowhere wrote: »

Rules at AMS are
US/CA/EU to anywhere, no screening. I've never been screened arriving from Dublin to go onwards to either EU or beyond EU
They added a another floor to the terminal to split passengers up

The setup in Dublin currently is good, but if they could provide certainty no security check was required it would be great. The token check in the CBP area appears to be more for food than anything else

Strange. My last trip I arrived from Dublin and happened to depart from the same gate to Africa. Went through the screening at the gate as with most of the gates in AMS. I remember it because they used the body scanner on me!

The Veteran

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I taught this was the set up but then felt it wasn't very daa approach!!

Will be great for tight transfers and also a selling point of how quick/easy the process is.

Exactly - what it would mean is that “transfer time” would literally be the maximum disembark time for your arriving aircraft plus say 3-4 minutes walking time plus 2-10 minutes Immigration processing time so a 20-30 minutes transfer becomes possible (for T2 to T2). This would be particularly the case for first wave arrivals from US transferring on to first wave departures to UK\EU. There are of course other challenges with short Transfers most notably hold luggage.

I think the airport is essentially saying, we make two passenger charges per passenger and perhaps get routes that would be too lean for originating traffic only ex DUB and as such we don’t need to chase retail sales from the transfer passengers.

In all my own travels, beyond a coffee or a beer or a small souvenir for home that has that city’s name on it; I would never spend money in the transit airports.

View Profile

HTCOne wrote:

I hope, pray they show some foresight within the next decade and build a T3 at the far western end of the airfield, a-la T5 at LHR, allowing them to build toast racks moving east as and when required in the following years with subterranean trains linking them again like T5, along with an underground train between the 3 terminals with a stop at the metro.

HTCOne wrote:

But that would be the most efficient thing to do for aircraft, and wouldn’t have airside cul de sacs clogging everything up, and they do so love their cul de sacs in DUB

Stop talking sense.

That would future proof the airport in a sensible and cost saving manner.
We won't be having any of that here. Now let's get on with building piddly little extensions to the already over crowded terminals.

steve-o

LiamaDelta wrote: »

Strange. My last trip I arrived from Dublin and happened to depart from the same gate to Africa. Went through the screening at the gate as with most of the gates in AMS. I remember it because they used the body scanner on me!

Schipol removed the old gate screening system about 3 years ago.

LiamaDelta

steve-o wrote: »

Schipol removed the old gate screening system about 3 years ago.

Ah cool thanks. didn't think it was that long since I was there! Time flies.