Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

Irish Steve

plodder wrote: »

I suppose if you were building T2 now, then the plan would include the metro station inside/under the terminal. But, you can't do that after it's built. It has to go somewhere you can dig a big trench without disturbing airport operations too much and I'd say that's why that car park is where it has to go.

Similar changes at Heathrow didn't disturb airport operations at all, and if I recall correctly, there was a basement level in T1 that was intended to be used for a station.

I suppose we should be thankful that the plan to put the station over near the old N1 has been knocked on the head.

In relation to a possible T3 at the western end of the airfield, that's not a new idea, it's been around for a while, and could be connected to the other terminals via an underground rail link without much trouble, it's been done in places like Denver.

If they were to think creatively, a tunnel connection between the red car park, T1/2, the blue car park, and T3 would make a lot of sense, and help considerably towards reducing the carbon footprint in the immediate area of the airport, electric trains rather than diesel buses would be a lot better, and underground electric trains would be a better option than surface electric buses, as it would remove a significant number of vehicle movements from areas that are already under pressure.

To really get creative, a sensible size staff car park over near the DHL complex, also connected via the same lines could free up a lot of critical space in the core area of the airport as well.

Jamie2k9

https://www.dublinairport.com/latest-news/detail/daa-releases-2017-annual-results

Mr Philips said daa will appoint a main contractor for the North Runway project this autumn, with works due to begin in the fourth quarter of this year. Construction is due to be complete in early 2021 and this will be followed by a nine-month commissioning phase before the runway opens.

daa is currently finalising a Masterplan for Dublin Airport which considers the developments needed to allow the airport to grow to enable it to handle 50 million passengers per year by the 2040s. The focus in the medium term is on expanding Dublin Airport’s capacity by adding a new runway, additional aircraft parking stands, and new boarding gate areas.

Blut2

3+ years for the runway to be operational! Thats unfortunate, DUB could do with it now. Or at least rather sooner than that.

Still doing better than Heathrow though I guess...

Blut2

Blut2 wrote: »

3+ years for the runway to be operational! Thats unfortunate, DUB could do with it now. Or at least rather sooner than that.

Still doing better than Heathrow though I guess...

This is not China where they would just throw 50,000 people at it and build it overnight.

Shedite27

Deleted User wrote: »

This is not China where they would just throw 50,000 people at it and build it overnight.

Is a runway not just a big road?

Blut2

Deleted User wrote: »

This is not China where they would just throw 50,000 people at it and build it overnight.

Theres probably a healthy middle-ground between "50,000 people building it overnight" and 3+ years, though.

A bit of Googling shows 10,000ft runways being built in the US in major airports in 18 months - that seems a realistic comparison point.

Jamie2k9

Blut2 wrote: »

Theres probably a healthy middle-ground between "50,000 people building it overnight" and 3+ years, though.

A bit of Googling shows 10,000ft runways being built in the US in major airports in 18 months - that seems a realistic comparison point.

It will take around 2 years to build which is reasonable and probably open by September-November 2021.

Time frame is very close to FRA recent runway addition.

Blut2

Blut2 wrote: »

Theres probably a healthy middle-ground between "50,000 people building it overnight" and 3+ years, though.

A bit of Googling shows 10,000ft runways being built in the US in major airports in 18 months - that seems a realistic comparison point.

It’s not just a standalone runway being built it needs massive integration with the current airport infrastructure with minimal impact and that includes 16/34. So timeline seems fair enough in my opinion.

Carawaystick

Irish Steve wrote: »

If they were to think creatively, a tunnel connection between the red car park, T1/2, the blue car park, and T3 would make a lot of sense, and help considerably towards reducing the carbon footprint in the immediate area of the airport, electric trains rather than diesel buses would be a lot better, and underground electric trains would be a better option than surface electric buses, as it would remove a significant number of vehicle movements from areas that are already under pressure.

To really get creative, a sensible size staff car park over near the DHL complex, also connected via the same lines could free up a lot of critical space in the core area of the airport as well.

Having Public transport running to get staff to and from the airport would help also reduce the carbon footprint.

Carawaystick

Carawaystick wrote: »

Having Public transport running to get staff to and from the airport would help also reduce the carbon footprint.

Already acknowledged by the DAA in their submissions to CAR. Its somewhat out of their hands as they struggle to get public/private transport operators to provide regular 24 hour transport options for their staff to get in and out of work without the use of private vehicles.

markpb

Deleted User wrote: »

Already acknowledged by the DAA in their submissions to CAR. Its somewhat out of their hands as they struggle to get public/private transport operators to provide regular 24 hour transport options for their staff to get in and out of work without the use of private vehicles.

I'm not sure how much they struggle when they charge bus operators (including PSO operators) for access to the airport.

trellheim

I'm not sure how much they struggle when they charge bus operators (including PSO operators) for access to the airport.

Beat me to it , DAA could not give a toss its all about making a bit of cash. if I was the Minister I would change the strategic objectives of it to be set by NTA or something like that, to have a truly integrated transport system.

DAA do not consider their customers to be people in my opinion, and never have.

Pat Dunne

markpb wrote: »

I'm not sure how much they struggle when they charge bus operators (including PSO operators) for access to the airport.

Who in turn cover these charges within their passenger fare's.

trellheim

One could make the same argument for the buses that stop at UCD , if the college started charging Dublin Bus . It is utterly silly.

LXFlyer

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Who in turn cover these charges within their passenger fare's.

The issue is not the commercial bus operators who can set their own fares.

The issue is that the DAA charge PSO bus operators to serve the airport. This flies in the face of State policy which is to encourage people to use public transport.

This has been a serious impediment to developing local bus services to/from the airport as Dublin Bus would have to absorb a not insignificant cost to operate additional routes.

There ought to be a local network of bus routes connecting north Dublin communities with the airport but no, it’s simply the 16, 41 and 102.

It’s an absolute disgrace that this sort of nonsense is allowed perpetuate.

Jamie2k9

moloner4 wrote: »

From Capa about DAA, they seem hardly likely to invest in buses over the next few years. Focus is on the runway and expansion.

What investment do you expect them to invest in?, buy buses, operate buses?

This has been a serious impediment to developing local bus services to/from the airport as Dublin Bus would have to absorb a not insignificant cost to operate additional routes.

The charge isn't the core issue, the reality is you couldn't make a profit on local bus routes. The NTA needs to provided a PSO for such routes and they are not doing it based on a the charge. They clearly don't have the interest at the monument.

Charging 1-2 euro for a route which won't be busy just doesn't work like the 6 euro on the commercially run service. The charge dropped would help but most likely not deliver extra local services.

LXFlyer

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

What investment do you expect them to invest in?, buy buses, operate buses?

The charge isn't the core issue, the reality is you couldn't make a profit on local bus routes. The NTA needs to provided a PSO for such routes and they are not doing it based on a the charge. They clearly don't have the interest at the monument.

Charging 1-2 euro for a route which won't be busy just doesn't work like the 6 euro on the commercially run service. The charge dropped would help but most likely not deliver extra local services.

Well it has definitely been an obstacle until now. That was stated to me directly in conversations with bus company management.

The point is that it is utterly ludicrous that the airport does not have a network of local services across north Dublin facilitating employees as well travellers. Heathrow provides a good template of how those local services should work.

There haven’t been any significant network changes since Network Direct - we will have to wait and see what the BusConnects project throws up.

Sorry I was only reiterating what the DAA have said in their submission to CAR, I'm not saying whether it is right or wrong.

There most certainly should be a train and metro service to Dublin airport, but hey ho what you do expect when we allow politicians to make the final decision on infrastructure projects. They end up using them as political footballs and vote winners.

trellheim

In all honesty Dublin Airport should be the biggest single bus station in the country, make it easy for people to get there without their cars .

This is more important in the longer run than a lot of the stuff on that master plan.

jamo2oo9

trellheim wrote: »

In all honesty Dublin Airport should be the biggest single bus station in the country, make it easy for people to get there without their cars .

This is more important in the longer run than a lot of the stuff on that master plan.

Is it not really the largest bus station in Ireland? Might be close to Busaras?

rushfan

trellheim wrote:

In all honesty Dublin Airport should be the biggest single bus station in the country, make it easy for people to get there without their cars .

It already is.

LXFlyer

rushfan wrote: »

It already is.

Not for PSO bus services which is the problem here.

rushfan

trellheim wrote:

In all honesty Dublin Airport should be the biggest single bus station in the country, make it easy for people to get there without their cars .

LXFlyer wrote:

Not for PSO bus services which is the problem here.

Nothing about PSO's in trellheim's post. The point made was that DAP should be the single biggest bus station in the country, which it is.

markpb

rushfan wrote: »

Nothing about PSO's in trellheim's post. The point made was that DAP should be the single biggest bus station in the country, which it is.

Calling it a bus station is a bit of a stretch. It's a giant windswept car park with a few bus shelters, a few signs and nothing else. I'm not looking for palatial surroundings like a Moscow metro station but something like Victoria station in Belfast would be nice and relatively cheap.

rushfan

markpb wrote:

Calling it a bus station is a bit of a stretch. It's a giant windswept car park with a few bus shelters, a few signs and nothing else. I'm not looking for palatial surroundings like a Moscow metro station but something like Victoria station in Belfast would be nice and relatively cheap.

Have a look at the definition of a station, doesn't actually have to be a building, although obviously it can. It's not a car park either, although cars pass through. Have you contacted the daa with your views re Victoria station etc????

trellheim

Sorry LXF and Mark are more right than I was "largest" is technically right ; it is not equipped as such - frankly its an open air kip, Red Cow is a better place. . Should be covered , warm state of the art bus station

Irish Steve

Given the time delay between some services, the absence of a warm, dry and wind free waiting area with seats and an on line real time departure board that's accurate is a travesty, having to stand in an open shelter with very little protection from the elements in the depth of winter because there's no way to be sure if the bus is on time is no pleasure, and makes the last stage of the journey home a very variable experience. We've done exactly this on several occasions over this last winter, and it's not much fun. For parents with children it must be close on torture.

trellheim

Especially if you're got a long coach journey and you're in off the first United or EI from east coast USA i

Donegal Storm

The private operators area at zone 16 in particular is a joke, inadequate, open air seating and a few (often out of date) posters pinned to a billboard are the only source of information available, I get the airport hopper from there a lot and constantly see people confused asking for information and worried they've missed their bus

I'd assume the whole area will be redeveloped as part of the metro works but judging by the pace thats trudging along at it'll probably the best part of a decade away yet

Irish Steve

trellheim wrote: »

Especially if you're got a long coach journey and you're in off the first United or EI from east coast USA i

Yes, that's very true.

We're fortunate, in that the 109A service that runs to and from Ashbourne is a relatively recent service that now operates throughout the day and night, on an hourly basis.

Some of the time, the timings are a bit optimistic, there is no way that they can run to time, which is where the problems arise, as the only accurate display is at the shelter out in the middle of the parking area.

At certain times of the day, they can be running significantly behind schedule, so you have to go out to the shelter (such as it is) to find out what the actual situation is.

I find it strange that there is no way to have a departure board inside the ground floor level of the car park, but that would require some serious advance planning, which is not BE's forte, they can't even sort out getting their on line timetable set up so that it's easy to get the times from that, you have to know which stand at the airport is used before you can get the correct information, and finding out the stand No is Not easy.