All Blacks Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

CatFromHue

Nah it's French.

Pronounced like Mrs Bucket

:P

Swiwi.

Owen Franks has signed on until 2017. It seems as if the attraction of playing the B&I Lions is working a treat at retaining players. From the 2003 tour, only Woodcock/Mealamu/McCaw/Carter/Nonu and C.Smith remain - I expect none of these will feature in 2017, but we'll see.

Morf

Swiwi. wrote: »

Owen Franks has signed on until 2017. It seems as if the attraction of playing the B&I Lions is working a treat at retaining players. From the 2003 tour, only Woodcock/Mealamu/McCaw/Carter/Nonu and C.Smith remain - I expect none of these will feature in 2017, but we'll see.

It would either be extraordinary longevity on the part of one of these mentioned or a dearth of quality if so.

Swiwi.

Does NZ actually have a nominated 2nd team? Maybe not - with thanks to the NZRFU for replying to my enquiry, and also for a shout-out to Ireland.

Hi,

Thanks for the email. We don’t really have a second team per se. The Under 20s are competing at the Junior World Championship this year which is considered the second biggest fifteens event in the world after Rugby World Cup, the Maori All Blacks compete on a regular basis and obviously we have the world champion Black Ferns. And of course the two Sevens teams.

A number of this years Under 20 have broken into the Super Rugby sides, and with England the current holders, and teams like Ireland competing really well at that level, it makes for a great tournament – just not sure if we’d call them our second team though.

All the best

irishbucsfan

Interesting that one:

http://www.nzru.co.nz/what_we_do/national_teams

The Junior All Blacks is New Zealand’s second national side after the All Blacks. Introduced in 2005, the Junior All Blacks team plays a crucial role in the growth and development of New Zealand’s international-quality player pool. The Junior All Blacks provide an opportunity for professional players in the prime of their careers to claim a black jersey and maintain their playing condition. The team last assembled in 2009 and claimed the IRB Pacific Nations Cup.

An earlier New Zealand Juniors team was first selected in 1958 and last played in 1984. Unlike the current Junior All Blacks, the earlier team was an under-23 age-grade selection.

Swiwi.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Interesting that one:

http://www.nzru.co.nz/what_we_do/national_teams

Yeah, I know. Except the Junior ABs hasn't played since 2009...and there doesn't seem to any more fixtures on the horizon.

This is from the IRB website

http://www.irb.com/mm/document/lawsregs/regulations/04/23/28/42328_pdf.pdf

6. How do I know which team is a Union’s next senior fifteen-a-side
National Representative Team?
There should be no uncertainty over which team constitutes a Union’s
next fifteen-a-side senior National Representative Team since, as from
January 1 2000, Unions are required to notify the IRB of the name of its
nominated next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team. The
team nominated remains the Union’s next fifteen-a-side senior National
Representative Team for a period of 4 years. The identity of a Union’s
next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team can be verified
with the Union concerned and/or the IRB.

irishbucsfan

Well I'm glad there's no uncertainty over that so.

Maybe Samoa are New Zealand's 2nd side?

(runs away)

Swiwi.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well I'm glad there's no uncertainty over that so.

Maybe Samoa are New Zealand's 2nd side?

(runs away)

Nah, it's Connacht.

(also runs away)

hahashake

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well I'm glad there's no uncertainty over that so.

Maybe Samoa are New Zealand's 2nd side?

(runs away)

Samoa did have 15 NZ-born players at the last world-cup.;)

Swiwi.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Interesting that one:

http://www.nzru.co.nz/what_we_do/national_teams

OK, IBF, so the NZRFU wrote back again

The Junior All Blacks are defined as the second team, although they haven’t assembled since 2009.

All the best

So it is the Junior ABs...who haven't played since 2009. Well, I'm going to say that is extremely lame. Recent noises from Steve Tew suggest the NZRFU isn't too bothered about losing players to project contracts overseas, so unlike SA naming their U20 side as the 2nd side, it doesn't appear NZ will follow suit. If anything, NZ fringe players might become a bit wary of appearing for the Junior ABs...whenever that next is.

Swiwi.

ABs training squad named Monday, I'm going to have a lash in advance. 31 players to be named I think.

FB: Smith, Dagg
Wing: Savea, Piutau, Jane
Centres: Nonu, Crotty, Smith, Fekitoa
Flyhalf: Cruden, Barrett, Slade,
Scrumhalf: Smith, Perenara, Kerr-Barlow

Loosies: Read, McCaw, Cane, Kaino, Messam
Locks: Whitelock, Retallick, Romano, Bird
Hookers: Mealamu, Coles, Coltman
Props: Woodcock, Franks, Franks, Crockett

I'm never an expert at picking props. Anyway, we'll see...

hahashake

Training squad is 35 players. I expect guys like Charlie Famuina and Patrick Tuipulotu to be in the mix.

Bryn Hall could be a smokey at 9, likewise Sopoaga at 10. Interesting to see if Luatua gets a look back in, with Kaino back he might be surplus.

edit: I'm wrong, it's Patrick not Charles

Swiwi.

hahashake wrote: »

Training squad is 35 players. I expect guys like Charlie Famuina and Charles Tuipulotu to be in the mix. Just realised that is 3 guys called Charles/Charlie potentially in the squad, all PI boys too.

Bryn Hall could be a smokey at 9, likewise Sopoaga at 10. Interesting to see if Luatua gets a look back in, with Kaino back he might be surplus.

Ah, yeah forgot Faumuina. I never get the props right. I think Tuipolotou will be given the ITM first, and Bird has got better. I think Slade will get the nod ahead of Sopoaga. I dont think Luatua will make it, unless he's chosen as a 6/lock, maybe in place of Romano. If it's 35 though, then probably. I really dont like Kerr-Barlow, but he seems a Hansen favourite. I'd go with Smith & Perenara on the bench every time, although that was a shocking no-pass to Jane in the weekend from TJ which butchered a certain try. Should be a decent squad anyway. It's a pity Afeaki has ongoing concussion issues since round 1, I really thought he'd come on, but he's running out of time.

Edit: if it's 35, Vito might get a look in to, he's probably the next best 8 after Read

hahashake

Swiwi. wrote: »

Ah, yeah forgot Faumuina. I never get the props right. I think Tuipolotou will be given the ITM first, and Bird has got better. I think Slade will get the nod ahead of Sopoaga. I dont think Luatua will make it, unless he's chosen as a 6/lock, maybe in place of Romano. If it's 35 though, then probably. I really dont like Kerr-Barlow, but he seems a Hansen favourite. I'd go with Smith & Perenara on the bench every time, although that was a shocking no-pass to Jane in the weekend from TJ which butchered a certain try. Should be a decent squad anyway. It's a pity Afeaki has ongoing concussion issues since round 1, I really thought he'd come on, but he's running out of time.

I agree Bird has come on but Patrick offers a point of difference, he's similar to Romano in his size but is possibly more athletic and skillful. Bird does have his height going for him though.

I would take Slade over Sopoaga purely for his experience in the ABs but I have been very impressed with Sopoaga this season. A key part of the Highlanders success and has great accuracy off the tee.

Halfback is a strange one, on form Ellis would be in the discussion but I know he won't be picked. To me Smith is head and shoulders above the rest (not literally of course).

Doubt Vito will get a look in with Kaino back. Always been a fan but I can see him heading off to France or hopefully sticking around and heading to Rio as he has mentioned in the media.

Swiwi.

hahashake wrote: »

I agree Bird has come on but Patrick offers a point of difference, he's similar to Romano in his size but is possibly more athletic and skillful. Bird does have his height going for him though.

I would take Slade over Sopoaga purely for his experience in the ABs but I have been very impressed with Sopoaga this season. A key part of the Highlanders success and has great accuracy of the tee.

Halfback is a strange one, on form Ellis would be in the discussion but I know he won't be picked. To me Smith is head and shoulder above the rest (not literally of course).

Doubt Vito will get a look in with Kaino back. Always been a fan but I can see him heading off to France or hopefully sicking around and heading to Rio as he has mentioned in the media.

Ah yeah, as a Cantab man (but also objectively) Ellis has been pretty consistent. But I'll choke on my breakfast if he's selected. With my other hat on, I'd say Leinster would do well to swap Ellis for the ex-Waikato lad Boss whose form has somewhat plummeted this season...

Neither Ellis nor Vito have ever really nailed it at AB level though. I'd have no problem with Tuipolotou getting the nod, but I reckon he'll be namechecked but not selected...yet. A possible bolter though for sure. I'll be intrigued by the front row selections, there's usually an unexpected naming there.

hahashake

In the past guys like Brad Shields and Big Ben Tameifuna have made the training squad but never kicked on so I'd imagine anyone young with obvious potential will be introduced to the group e.g. Tuipulotu.

Swiwi.

hahashake wrote: »

In the past guys like Brad Shields and Big Ben Tameifuna have made the training squad but never kicked on so I'd imagine anyone young with obvious potential will be introduced to the group e.g. Tuipulotu.

Tameifuna will never make it, I reckon, just not seen as able for 80 minutes. Shields has had a miserable year with injury. If he's patient he'll make the ABs, but most likely 2016.

sydthebeat

any chance of simon hickey as a bolter? or is it too early for him.... i dont know does hansen even does left field picks like that.

Slade has been playing very well, but hes a year older than cruden so is significantly older than sopoaga and barrett.

(jesus you kiwis are blessed with talent ya jammy feckers!)

hahashake

Saw Wales are doing a probables v possibles game and I recently saw this on TSF and thought people might find it interesting:


Interesting that Jamies Joseph, Tabai Matson and Kevin Schuler all played that day and are now all coaching.

hahashake

sydthebeat wrote: »

any chance of simon hickey as a bolter? or is it too early for him.... i dont know does hansen even does left field picks like that.

Slade has been playing very well, but hes a year older than cruden so is significantly older than sopoaga and barrett.

(jesus you kiwis are blessed with talent ya jammy feckers!)

Unlikely as he will be playing in the JWC. Also he would behind quite a few guys, I would say he would be lucky to be in the 8th best FH in the country.

Swiwi.

sydthebeat wrote: »

any chance of simon hickey as a bolter? or is it too early for him.... i dont know does hansen even does left field picks like that.

Slade has been playing very well, but hes a year older than cruden so is significantly older than sopoaga and barrett.

(jesus you kiwis are blessed with talent ya jammy feckers!)

No chance. He's off to the U20s. His defence has been called into Q, especially the Blues v Brumbies game. Lots of potential, but with Cruden, Barrett, and either Slade or possibly Sopoaga I don't think so. Some guy called Daniel is also due to start playing again soon.

Swiwi.

hahashake wrote: »

Saw Wales are doing a probables v possibles game and I recently saw this on TSF and thought people might find it interesting:


Interesting that Jamies Joseph, Tabai Matson and Kevin Schuler all played that day and are now all coaching.

Brings back the memories. Dallas Seymour one of the unluckiest players, very under-rated. Both coaches now gone to other pastures.

hahashake

Brewer did some coaching up North too now that I think of it. Also Ieremia is at the Canes

Tox56

hahashake wrote: »

Brewer did some coaching up North too now that I think of it. Also Ieremia is at the Canes

Assuming that Brewer is Mike he now lives in Ireland I think (presume?) because his son was playing for Terenure last season and was involved with the U20s during the 6 Nations a year young

Hype710

Tox56 wrote: »

Assuming that Brewer is Mike he now lives in Ireland I think (presume?) because his son was playing for Terenure last season and was involved with the U20s during the 6 Nations a year young

And must have been born pretty close to that probables match!

On a side note, very intruiged to see the make up of the NZ back three. Case for Dagg to miss out with Smith at FB and Savea and Jane on the wings?

sydthebeat

Daggs starting to come back to a bit of form, but Ben Smith has been the standout back 3 of this season so far IMHO.
Of course we could see 15 Dagg 14 Smith 11 Savea???

Swiwi.

Hype710 wrote: »

And must have been born pretty close to that probables match!

On a side note, very intruiged to see the make up of the NZ back three. Case for Dagg to miss out with Smith at FB and Savea and Jane on the wings?

sydthebeat wrote: »

Daggs starting to come back to a bit of form, but Ben Smith has been the standout back 3 of this season so far IMHO.
Of course we could see 15 Dagg 14 Smith 11 Savea???

Dagg has the advantage that he has a better punt then Smith. Savea will definitely be at 11, that is certain. I think they will probably start with Smith 14 and Dagg 15 with Piutau on the bench. Dagg seems to start the season slow, but as STB says he is finding form.

Swiwi.

Tox56 wrote: »

Assuming that Brewer is Mike he now lives in Ireland I think (presume?) because his son was playing for Terenure last season and was involved with the U20s during the 6 Nations a year young

Ya, Mike Brewer. Was an underrated player but had the misfortune to play at the same time as Michael Jones and Zinzan Brooke. Was destined to captain NZ at the ?95 RWC (playing 6 from memory), but injury supervened. Maybe it was 1991. If his son played for Terenure, Teferi might know him.

Swiwi.

For what it's worth on an Irish rugby forum...

...here is the first ABs squad of the season

Hookers: Keven Mealamu (Blues), Nathan Harris (Chiefs), Dane Coles (Hurricanes), Liam Coltman (Highlanders).

Props: Charlie Faumuina and Tony Woodcock (Blues), Ben Franks (Hurricanes), Wyatt Crockett and Owen Franks (Crusaders).

Locks: Patrick Tuipulotu (Blues), Brodie Retallick (Chiefs), Jeremy Thrush (Hurricanes), Dominic Bird and Sam Whitelock (Crusaders).

Loose forwards: Jerome Kaino and Steven Luatua (Blues), Sam Cane and Liam Messam (Chiefs), Victor Vito (Hurricanes), Richie McCaw, Kieran Read and Luke Whitelock (Crusaders).

Halfbacks: Tawera Kerr-Barlow (Chiefs), TJ Perenara (Hurricanes), Aaron Smith (Highlanders).

First five-eighths: Aaron Cruden (Chiefs), Beauden Barrett (Hurricanes), Colin Slade (Crusaders).

Midfielders: Ma'a Nonu (Blues), Conrad Smith (Hurricanes), Ryan Crotty (Crusaders), Malakai Fekitoa (Highlanders).

Outside backs: Cory Jane and Julian Savea (Hurricanes), Israel Dagg (Crusaders), Ben Smith (Highlanders).

The new hooking berths have gone to Coltman and Harris, and on a side note Corey Flynn has signed for Toulouse.

The props are as expected, Ben Tameifuna is apparently weighing up declaring for Tonga and accepting a massive offer from Toulouse.

Luke Romano's injury has extended a transient lifeline to Jeremy Thrush, who should be a Leinster target IMO. As half-expected, exciting Blues lock Patrick Tuipolotou has earned a call-up.

In the loosies, Victor Vito gets a re-selection, if he gets a chance it's make or break. Steven Luatua has had a poor season but has been retained on last year's promise. And welcome back Jerome.

Halfbacks as expected, Andy Ellis could be a target but is supposed to be skipping the ITM for a lucrative Japan stint. Colin Slade in for Carter on sabbatical.

Midfield and back three as expected, Piutau's injury untimely.

Tim Nanai-Williams must surely get poached by Japan or France one of these days, I just don't think he's going to get selected, and could do the Samoa/French or Japanese club combo.

Anyway, a decent squad, and hopefully enough to dispatch the Poms (who are rumoured to be considering recalling wild boy Cipriani)

Yeah_Right

Swiwi. wrote: »

Ya, Mike Brewer. Was an underrated player but had the misfortune to play at the same time as Michael Jones and Zinzan Brooke. Was destined to captain NZ at the ?95 RWC (playing 6 from memory), but injury supervened. Maybe it was 1991. If his son played for Terenure, Teferi might know him.

It was the 87 RWC that he missed due to injury and he had been earmarked as a potential captain. I think he missed the 91 through injury as well. Made the 95 team at the expense of Jones due to the number of Sunday games the ABs had.

Swiwi.

Yeah_Right wrote: »

It was the 87 RWC that he missed due to injury and he had been earmarked as a potential captain. I think he missed the 91 through injury as well. Made the 95 team at the expense of Jones due to the number of Sunday games the ABs had.

Cheers, the details were fairly hazy. Now that you mention it, the 87 captaincy was also supposed to be Andy Dalton's, and I can't recall if Jock Hobbs was in the mix too, but of course it ended up with David Kirk. Brewer was the perfect bench loosie, as he covered all 3 positions.

You happy with the ABs squad Y_R? No complaints from me, don't think any major omissions, would have been interesting to know who would have made way had Piutau not got injured.

I suspect a number of fringe players are going to head overseas in the next couple of years, the likes of TNW etc, and certainly NZ has too many flyhalves to fit into 1 AB jersey, so more of the Noakes and Blyendaals of this world are also likely to head offshore.

Am looking forward to the English series anyway, always a good test for the pack.

Yeah_Right

Have to say I am happy with that squad. If Piatau hadn't been injured they probably would have just made it a 36 man squad. No real surprise inclusions. Obviously Harris, Fekitoa and Tuipulotu probably weren't on the radar at the beginning of the season but their form has warranted the call up.

I think Thrush and Vito are lucky. Injury to Romano helped Thrush and I thought Christie from the Landers might have had a look in.

i think that its a good enough squad to beat the Poms.

the baby bull elephant

Should be mentioned that Thrush will only be at the Wellington camp and Luke Whitelock only the Christchurch one.

hahashake

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

Should be mentioned that Thrush will only be at the Wellington camp and Luke Whitelock only the Christchurch one.

There are 4 players dropped right? I wonder if that means they will be first on the chopping block.

The next two are a bit harder, I have a feeling Vito will be one and a rookie hooker will be the other. A bit of a shame for Vito because he is still AB quality IMO, except he is just behind Read and the 6/8s of Kaino and Messam.

Swiwi.

hahashake wrote: »

There are 4 players dropped right? I wonder if that means they will be first on the chopping block.

The next two are a bit harder, I have a feeling Vito will be one and a rookie hooker will be the other. A bit of a shame for Vito because he is still AB quality IMO, except he is just behind Read and the 6/8s of Kaino and Messam.

Yeah, Thrush will go no question. He's really fringe, and even then, I'm not convinced. Luke Whitelock had a fantastic game at the weekend, his best ever IMO, so I feel a bit more happy that there is backup to Read, but at the moment I'd still go with Vito if Read wasn't available.

So that makes 2 players, add 1 of the rookie hookers as you say, and then I'd ditch Luatua at present. He needs to get his mojo back and I'm sure Hansen will manage it, but he hardly deserves a spot in a 23 man squad at present. I'd actually like Vito to get 1 more chance: either he nails it, or that's it.

hahashake

Swiwi. wrote: »

Yeah, Thrush will go no question. He's really fringe, and even then, I'm not convinced. Luke Whitelock had a fantastic game at the weekend, his best ever IMO, so I feel a bit more happy that there is backup to Read, but at the moment I'd still go with Vito if Read wasn't available.

So that makes 2 players, add 1 of the rookie hookers as you say, and then I'd ditch Luatua at present. He needs to get his mojo back and I'm sure Hansen will manage it, but he hardly deserves a spot in a 23 man squad at present. I'd actually like Vito to get 1 more chance: either he nails it, or that's it.

Good call, Vito is a lot more experienced than Luatua and he is a better cover for Read. Luatua hasn't impressed this year at the Blues, he has been benched for the last few games in fact.

Swiwi.

hahashake wrote: »

Good call, Vito is a lot more experienced than Luatua and he is a better cover for Read. Luatua hasn't impressed this year at the Blues, he has been benched for the last few games in fact.

Luatua could do with a season at the Crusaders TBH. Seriously. Worked wonders for the likes of Ron Cribb and Norm Berryman. He's got bucketloads of talent, but plays too loose for a 6, quite exposed against Ireland I thought. Definitely worth persisting with though.

hahashake

Swiwi. wrote: »

Luatua could do with a season at the Crusaders TBH. Seriously. Worked wonders for the likes of Ron Cribb and Norm Berryman. He's got bucketloads of talent, but plays too loose for a 6, quite exposed against Ireland I thought. Definitely worth persisting with though.

Yeah I am a fan but needs to learn to tighten up a bit. Kaino had to do the same before he became an AB stalwart.

Swiwi.

Luatua, Luke Whitelock, Thrush, Harris & Coltman rumoured to miss the cut. No complaints from me there. Piutau's injury thought to have spared Slade. If Romano had been around, I guess Bird or Tuitupou would have missed out.

Fingers crossed no injuries tomorrow. At least Smith, Smith and Fekitoa got thru today OK

LuckyGent88

Extremely worrying news all round that Kieran read has once again been ruled out of a match due to continuing concussion issues.
There must be real concern about his long term availability at this stage.

http://m.couriermail.com.au/sport/rugby/concussion-sidelines-all-blacks-no-8-kieran-read-from-first-test-against-england/story-fnii0ksb-1226941550140

Swiwi.

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

Extremely worrying news all round that Kieran read has once again been ruled out of a match due to continuing concussion issues.
There must be real concern about his long term availability at this stage.

http://m.couriermail.com.au/sport/rugby/concussion-sidelines-all-blacks-no-8-kieran-read-from-first-test-against-england/story-fnii0ksb-1226941550140

Yeah, it's dragging on alright, and is becoming worrying. Gives Victor Vito or possibly Kaino a start at 8. Todd can replace Sam Cane (how unlucky is Luke Braid?), and Jane & Ben Smith must be the wings now with Savea out.

As an aside, I see the Wallabies have dropped Genia.

LuckyGent88

Swiwi. wrote: »

Yeah, it's dragging on alright, and is becoming worrying. Gives Victor Vito or possibly Kaino a start at 8. Todd can replace Sam Cane (how unlucky is Luke Braid?), and Jane & Ben Smith must be the wings now with Savea out.

As an aside, I see the Wallabies have dropped Genia.

He obviously gets the best medical treatment available but his family must be getting very worried about him and the possible long term effects.

Pretty strange not even having genia on the bench. While he hasn't been at his best the last year, I thought he was buzzing around the pitch against the highlanders last weekend.

hahashake

I'm not too concerned about Read seeing as how he played well for the saders last weekend and I trust the saders medical staff. I'd imagine they are just being extra careful, not to mention no need to risk him against an understrength England side. Kaino, Vito and Messam (and even McCaw) all cover 8 with Vito usually playing there for the canes so not a huge issue with depth.

Savea would be a big loss if this was a full-strength England side, I wonder if we are more likely to see Fekitoa now.

sydthebeat

Kaino was a monster last weekend.. i wonder will that get him a start.

with saveau out that kinda solves the problem of 4 pegs for three holes

hahashake

Standard procedure seems to be 2 fullbacks and a big straight wing at 11 so with Jane basically being a 14.5 and on the small side it has to change the way they will play. I doubt we will see it but I would love to see Fekitoa start at 11.

Tox56

sydthebeat wrote: »

with saveau out that kinda solves the problem of 4 pegs for three holes

Can't imagine there are too many other sides in the world that would look at the loss of Julian Savea like that....

Swiwi.

hahashake wrote: »

Standard procedure seems to be 2 fullbacks and a big straight wing at 11 so with Jane basically being a 14.5 and on the small side it has to change the way they will play. I doubt we will see it but I would love to see Fekitoa start at 11.

Not me. I imagine the England gameplan will involve up-and-unders, and I have no idea what Malekai is like under the high ball.

I think the team will be utterly predicatable, the injury to Read has "ruined" the Kaino v Messam debate, and I don't see Beauden getting the nod ahead of Cruden. Bird v Tuipolotou and maybe Crockett v Franks on the bench are the only real debates I guess.

hahashake

Swiwi. wrote: »

Not me. I imagine the England gameplan will involve up-and-unders, and I have no idea what Malekai is like under the high ball.

I think the team will be utterly predicatable, the injury to Read has "ruined" the Kaino v Messam debate, and I don't see Beauden getting the nod ahead of Cruden. Bird v Tuipolotou and maybe Crockett v Franks on the bench are the only real debates I guess.

Fair point about Fekitoa but I can only assume they want to develop his ability to be a utility off the bench. Savea wasn't brilliant under the high-ball when he got his first cap.

Taco Corp

little bit of motivation for the English lads ahead of the game this weekend

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3562_9335923,00.html

sydthebeat

Would love to see Lawes throw one of his famed "slightly late" tackles into retallick....... and see what hell fire would come after