All Blacks Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Swiwi

What it says on the label...

Swiwi

Players named for All Blacks wider training group camps

Blues
Frank Halai, Steven Luatua, Keven Mealamu, Charles Piutau, Rene Ranger, Francis Saili, Piri Weepu and Ali Williams.

Chiefs
Ben Afeaki, Sam Cane, Aaron Cruden, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Liam Messam and Brodie Retallick.

Hurricanes
Beauden Barrett, Dane Coles, Ben Franks, TJ Perenara, Julian Savea, Brad Shields, Conrad Smith, Jeff Toomaga-Allen and Victor Vito.

Crusaders
Dominic Bird, Daniel Carter, Wyatt Crockett, Israel Dagg, Owen Franks, Kieran Read, Luke Romano, Tom Taylor and Samuel Whitelock.

Highlanders
Hosea Gear, Andrew Hore, Ma'a Nonu, Aaron Smith, Ben Smith and Tony Woodcock.


Profiles on the uncapped players here

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10883576


Talking points of the first squad

1) Only 1 specialist openside (Cane). Expect to see 1 of Braid, Todd or Latimer named in the final squad. Braid for my money.

2) Some exciting new faces, anyone with decent SXV form has been rewarded.

3) The out of form vets are still there, fair enough to show they have still got it, but time must be ticking for a few. No pressure, or anything, lads.

4) Apparently Ranger has not definitively confirmed a move to Montpellier yet...


Irish fans can expect to see some new faces in November at the Aviva: the 3 most promising in my opinion

Ben Afeaki is a highly promising tighthead prop, the best potential since Carl Hayman

Stephen Luatua looks like NZ's answer to Ferris, and then some

T J Perenara is a dynamic scrumhalf with a nose for the tryline

durkadurka

I'm just going to say something so poor old Swiwi isn't posting to himself !

Swiwi

durkadurka wrote: »

I'm just going to say something so poor old Swiwi isn't posting to himself !

I could talk to myself all day about ABs rugby. They have "secure facilities" for people like me... (mutters to self)

pajunior

At what point do we mention that Heaslip and Kearney are better than Read and Dagg?

Swiwi

pajunior wrote: »

At what point do we mention that Heaslip and Kearney are better than Read and Dagg?

When they are.

Swiwi

My best wishes to Doug Howlett for the future. All time AB record try scorer and a handy contributor to Munster too. Would make a great backs coach.

part time punk

Request for renaming thread to BNZ Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

bilston

How has Sam Cane been going this year Swiwi? I remember he made his All Black debut against us last year and he looked just like another McCaw.

thomond2006

part time punk wrote: »

Request for renaming thread to BNZ Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

How about AIG All Blacks Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Regards,
AIG

errlloyd

I realise it's off topic. But how do sponsors game naming rights over national teams like the "Quantas Wallabies". Can they only be called those names during exhibition matches (like lions tours)

trouttrout

Surprised Andscombe didn't make the squad. Might he be tempted overseas for a year or two?

Swiwi

bilston wrote: »

How has Sam Cane been going this year Swiwi? I remember he made his All Black debut against us last year and he looked just like another McCaw.

He has been going OK for the Chiefs. For reasons I don't fully understand, he doesn't always start, with Rennie sometimes preferring Tanerau Latimer (who is a bit of a journeyman to be frank).

He looked promising against Ireland I agree, but has had limited opportunities since, so this 3 test series against France is his chance to secure the back-up 7 role.

McCaw will be a hard act to follow, but when I have seen Cane play, he certainly reads the game well, and runs good lines for an openside.

Swiwi

errlloyd wrote: »

I realise it's off topic. But how do sponsors game naming rights over national teams like the "Quantas Wallabies". Can they only be called those names during exhibition matches (like lions tours)

$ or €, depending on where you live.

Swiwi

trouttrout wrote: »

Surprised Andscombe didn't make the squad. Might he be tempted overseas for a year or two?

He broke bones in his foot, trouttrout, and is out for 6 weeks.

Unfortunately for him he plays 10 & 15. Good luck getting past Carter (& Cruden) for 10, and even better luck getting past Dagg (or Ben Smith or new whizz-kid Charles Piutau) for 15.

He's still exceptionally young, but players seems to lose patience very quickly in the modern world (not like when we played rugby back in the good ol' days), so maybe he'll up sticks in a year or 2 if he can't progress. I think he is Welsh-qualified, if he wants.

Edit: His best bet might be to switch to wing. Hansen mentioned a bit of a lack of depth, especially at 14 with Cory Jane injured, so that might be the way to go. He's going to have to play exceptionally well, or other players get injured, to get a 10 or 15 jersey at the moment.

Depp

They'l really miss richie i reckon

thomond2006

The French squad for the series against New Zealand:

Avants (19) :

Eddy Ben Arous (Racing-Métro), Vincent Debaty (Clermont), Thomas Domingo (Clermont),

Guilhem Guirado (Perpignan), Benjamin Kayser (Clermont), Dimitri Szarzewski (Racing-Métro),

Luc Ducalcon (Racing-Métro), Daniel Kotze (Clermont), Nicolas Mas (Perpignan),

Alexandre Flanquart (Stade Français), Yoann Maestri (Toulouse), Christophe Samson (Castres), Sébastien Vahaamahina (Perpignan),

Yannick Nyanga (Toulouse), Fulgence Ouedraogo (Montpellier), Thierry Dusautoir (Toulouse, cap.), Bernard Le Roux (Racing-Métro), Antonie Claassen (Castres), Louis Picamoles (Toulouse).

Arrières (16) :

Maxime Machenaud (Racing-Métro), Morgan Parra (Clermont),

Frédéric Michalak (Toulon), Camille Lopez (Bordeaux-Bègles), Rémi Talès (Castres),

Mathieu Bastareaud (Toulon), Gael Fickou (Toulouse), Wesley Fofana (Clermont), Florian Fritz (Toulouse), Maxime Mermoz (Toulon),

Maxime Médard (Toulouse), Noa Nakaitaci (Clermont), Alexis Palisson (Toulon), Adrien Planté (Perpignan),

Brice Dulin (Castres), Yoann Huget (Touloluse).

The big missing name is Francois Trinh-Duc.

bilston

thomond2006 wrote: »

The French squad for the series against New Zealand:

Avants (19) :

Eddy Ben Arous (Racing-Métro), Vincent Debaty (Clermont), Thomas Domingo (Clermont),

Guilhem Guirado (Perpignan), Benjamin Kayser (Clermont), Dimitri Szarzewski (Racing-Métro),

Luc Ducalcon (Racing-Métro), Daniel Kotze (Clermont), Nicolas Mas (Perpignan),

Alexandre Flanquart (Stade Français), Yoann Maestri (Toulouse), Christophe Samson (Castres), Sébastien Vahaamahina (Perpignan),

Yannick Nyanga (Toulouse), Fulgence Ouedraogo (Montpellier), Thierry Dusautoir (Toulouse, cap.), Bernard Le Roux (Racing-Métro), Antonie Claassen (Castres), Louis Picamoles (Toulouse).

Arrières (16) :

Maxime Machenaud (Racing-Métro), Morgan Parra (Clermont),

Frédéric Michalak (Toulon), Camille Lopez (Bordeaux-Bègles), Rémi Talès (Castres),

Mathieu Bastareaud (Toulon), Gael Fickou (Toulouse), Wesley Fofana (Clermont), Florian Fritz (Toulouse), Maxime Mermoz (Toulon),

Maxime Médard (Toulouse), Noa Nakaitaci (Clermont), Alexis Palisson (Toulon), Adrien Planté (Perpignan),

Brice Dulin (Castres), Yoann Huget (Touloluse).

The big missing name is Francois Trinh-Duc.

And yet Freddie remains.

thomond2006

bilston wrote: »

And yet Freddie remains.

From what I've seen of Lopez, he's a very good player. He'll be at Perpignan next year to compete with James Hook for the 10 shirt.

trouttrout

Trinh Duc is getting a very raw deal

Swiwi

Depp wrote: »

They'l really miss richie i reckon

Don't think anyone else will, though

Swiwi

thomond2006 wrote: »

The French squad for the series against New Zealand

I'm happy the French appear to have chosen a decent side. Should provide a nice entrée to the main dish in Australia.

I'd be interested Thomond on your thoughts on some of the uncapped French players, as I never watch Top 14, and I know you keep an eye on it.

Ruck Inspector

Sam Cane injured?

Also surprised Brad Shields was overlooked.

Swiwi

Ruck Inspector wrote: »

Sam Cane injured?

Also surprised Brad Shields was overlooked.

Minor injury for Cane means he misses the game this weekend, but he'll be right for the French tests. The Canes coach rotates Brad Shields in and out of the starting XV. I'm still not 100% convinced by Shields, although he has definitely been better this season than last. I'd say the AB selectors will go with Messam & Luatua as their 6s.

GiftofGab

Don't think the All-Blacks should be as feared as they were a few years ago. My person opinion only! Think they might dip in form this year. Australia would give these guys a great run for the money at the moment.

Some players are way off form / past it. Nonu for example. He shouldn't make any top international side any more. Great in his time. Dagg once set the world alight but hasn't done anything in a while.

They need Ranger at the moment. Can't afford to lose him. He's moved to 13 and has been playing some of the best rugby of his career.

Halai is another wonder. Looking forward to seeing him in an all black shirt.

Would have though Nani-Williams should be in the squad. He should have taken Nonu's spot.

Swiwi

GiftofGab wrote: »

Don't think the All-Blacks should be as feared as they were a few years ago. My person opinion only! Think they might dip in form this year. Australia would give these guys a great run for the money at the moment.

Some players are way off form / past it. Nonu for example. He shouldn't make any top international side any more. Great in his time. Dagg once set the world alight but hasn't done anything in a while.

They need Ranger at the moment. Can't afford to lose him. He's moved to 13 and has been playing some of the best rugby of his career.

Halai is another wonder. Looking forward to seeing him in an all black shirt.

Would have though Nani-Williams should be in the squad. He should have taken Nonu's spot.

I'm hoping GiftofGab that the Bledisloe series will be more closely fought this year than in recent times, where it has become a bit of a yawn. The Aussie team does potentially look stronger this year, although the Crusaders 8 made mincemeat of the Brumbies pack a couple of weeks ago. However, there are not too many Aussie certs from the Brumbies pack (probably just George Smith), so I'm not reading too much into that.

Both Nonu & Dagg have made an artform of converting lackadaisical SXV form into compelling international displays, so I wouldn't write either of them off. Dagg in particular now has genuine competition for the 15 jersey, so he can't afford to slacken off. Ever since I've watched rugby, depth at 12 has always been an issue for the ABs, we usually have one (maximum 2) good 12 on the books, and have never produced our own Tim Horan.

For me the jury is still out on Ranger & TNW. Ranger has all the skills & ability, but needs to show he can play error-free rugby at the highest levels, while TNW needs to show he can tackle. As it is, TNW is out of rugby for a few weeks with a stomach ulcer, so he wasn't available.

Frank Halai has kind of crept up on NZ rugby, at 25 he's relatively old to be playing his first season of SXV, but he has a good chance of starting the June internationals in the 14 jersey. Looks to have all the requisite skills for an international winger.

PhatPiggins

Swiwi wrote: »

Minor injury for Cane means he misses the game this weekend, but he'll be right for the French tests. The Canes coach rotates Brad Shields in and out of the starting XV. I'm still not 100% convinced by Shields, although he has definitely been better this season than last. I'd say the AB selectors will go with Messam & Luatua as their 6s.

Really like and respect Messam as a player and as someone who stuck it out to become an All Blacks regular.

Could have moved abroad numerous times but is one of those good ol days players you talk about Swiwi.

Swiwi

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Really like and respect Messam as a player and as someone who stuck it out to become an All Blacks regular.

Could have moved abroad numerous times but is one of those good ol days players you talk about Swiwi.

You can add Hosea Gear to that list. A lot of players seem to throw the toys out of the cot if they don't make the ABs after 1 or 2 seasons but Messam & Gear have stuck with it and like yourself I admire them for it.

AngeGal

I guess slightly off topic but would you know much about Jake Heenan Swiwi?

Teferi

AngeGal wrote: »

I guess slightly off topic but would you know much about Jake Heenan Swiwi?

Was just coming into the thread to ask about him myself.

Very strange. Surely if someone is captaining the U20's they are all but destined for an All Black shirt, at the very least they would have a lot of potential anyway. Seems like a bit of a coup for Connacht tbh, hopefully he does well for them.

lurtz

he was co captain, Id imagine Lam convinced him that a few years abroad would do him the world of good,like gatland convinced junior charlie back in the day. or maybe less likely,he doesnt think he'll ever play for NZ,or maybe jsut wants to give himself the option of either

Swiwi

AngeGal wrote: »

I guess slightly off topic but would you know much about Jake Heenan Swiwi?

Teferi wrote: »

Was just coming into the thread to ask about him myself.

Very strange. Surely if someone is captaining the U20's they are all but destined for an All Black shirt, at the very least they would have a lot of potential anyway. Seems like a bit of a coup for Connacht tbh, hopefully he does well for them.

About as much as your average Connacht fan! I actually have a bit of a life outside rugby (!), and U20's rugby is something I keep an eye on the results, but would hardly watch any of the games. Last year, NZ actually didn't win the damn thing, so maybe he thought the honourable thing to do was disappear overseas for a while, until the stink died down...

On a more serious note, he's only 20, and realistically McCaw, Cane and your pick of Ardie Savea/Braid/Todd probably have the 7 jersey locked away until post 2015. McCaw will then retire I would imagine, and he might look to return to NZ and try his hand for 2019. Certainly, the Highlanders could do with a decent openside, it's been a long time between Josh Kronfeld drinks.

The other option, of course, is to declare for Ireland at the end of those 3 years. I must say I find the IRB rules weird - 20 seconds of rugby for Fiji rules out Nacewa from an AB jersey for life, while Jake Heenan (who judging by the name almost certainly has Maori blood in him), can become Irish in 3 years.

Anyway, that's beside the point, and in summary I don't really know anything about him, but if he captained the U20s, he must be a handy enough player.

AngeGal

lurtz wrote: »

he was co captain, Id imagine Lam convinced him that a few years abroad would do him the world of good,like gatland convinced junior charlie back in the day. or maybe less likely,he doesnt think he'll ever play for NZ,or maybe jsut wants to give himself the option of either

Fairly sure he was captain on his own. You might be thinking of the other new kiwi signing Craig Clarke, who was co captain of the chiefs for a period.

AngeGal

Thanks Swiwi. Whilst I'm here, I might aswell ask you about Craig Clarke. I don't follow super 15, obviously he's a good player if he captained the Chiefs to win it. I read also that he was in the wider training squad of the all blacks at one point. How highly would you rate him? Perhaps as a marker, would you expect him to make the Ireland team if he was eligible?

the baby bull elephant

AngeGal wrote: »

Thanks Swiwi. Whilst I'm here, I might aswell ask you about Craig Clarke. I don't follow super 15, obviously he's a good player if he captained the Chiefs to win it. I read also that he was in the wider training squad of the all blacks at one point. How highly would you rate him? Perhaps as a marker, would you expect him to make the Ireland team if he was eligible?

I know your not asking me but just thought I'd give my opinion Clarke is a very solid player whol ill do a huge amount of work and is pretty good in the lineout last season he was excellent and he probably should have been ahead of Williams (though last year that's not saying much). I wouldn't expect him to start but it'd be a tough enough call and he'd certainly be on the bench.

Swiwi

AngeGal wrote: »

Thanks Swiwi. Whilst I'm here, I might aswell ask you about Craig Clarke. I don't follow super 15, obviously he's a good player if he captained the Chiefs to win it. I read also that he was in the wider training squad of the all blacks at one point. How highly would you rate him? Perhaps as a marker, would you expect him to make the Ireland team if he was eligible?

He's a very good player, but I don't think quite international calibre. If I had to find an Irish equivalent, maybe I'd say Leo Cullen in his prime - leads from the front, good work ethic, would figuratively die for the cause. Probably not quite skilled enough to make it as an international lock. I'd rate Paul O'Connell and Donncha Ryan as better locks, but he'd be a solid candidate for a wider Irish squad.

AngeGal

All opinions appreciated. Great, sounds like we've gotten a good replacement for Mike McCarthy.

Podge_irl

All Blacks? Sounds racist.


(I really need to increase my knowledge of SH rugby).

Swiwi

Podge_irl wrote: »

All Blacks? Sounds racist.

(I really need to increase my knowledge of SH rugby).

There is one theory that the name originated from a London newspaper reporting that New Zealanders played rugby as if they were all backs, and it got misspelled to all blacks, and given the colour of the jersey, the name stuck.

lurtz

AngeGal wrote: »

Fairly sure he was captain on his own. You might be thinking of the other new kiwi signing Craig Clarke, who was co captain of the chiefs for a period.

no he was co captain with bryn hall scrum half

Swiwi

And Ali Williams has announced his retirement from international rugby. Fairplay to him for jumping before he was shoved. A multi-talented lock in his prime, he was superlative in the years peri-2005, but after his achilles injuries (?2009), he was never remotely the same player, and only maintained his AB jersey on reputation/loyalty rather than form. The fact of the matter is that Sam Whitelock in particular (but also Retallick & Romano) are now playing consistently better rugby, and Dominc Bird from the Crusaders has all the physical attributes too. Thanks for the memories Ali!

the baby bull elephant

http://youtu.be/mUDTXGcN6Qg

Buer

Injuries wrecked him but he was a superb athlete at his peak, vying with Matfield for best in the world at their role. An awful pain in the ass too!

leftleg

Swiwi wrote: »

He has been going OK for the Chiefs. For reasons I don't fully understand, he doesn't always start, with Rennie sometimes preferring Tanerau Latimer (who is a bit of a journeyman to be frank).

He looked promising against Ireland I agree, but has had limited opportunities since, so this 3 test series against France is his chance to secure the back-up 7 role.

McCaw will be a hard act to follow, but when I have seen Cane play, he certainly reads the game well, and runs good lines for an openside.

Everyone looked promising against Ireland afaik that day

CatFromHue

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

http://youtu.be/mUDTXGcN6Qg

That try of his against the Lions still gives me that crushing feeling inside, you knew then that the tests were only going one way!

Anyway here is a clip of him breaking up a fight :pac::pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTnBwQVb6Z0

lurtz

would have loved to see him batter that cheeky fcuk who dares to disrespect the great man

Swiwi

Jeremy Thrush called into ABs training squad to replace Ali Williams. Benson Stanley's "last cab off the rank" comment comes to mind.

Swiwi

And now Sam Whitelock ruled out with a broken finger, just when he was hitting amazing form. Should continue the meteoric rise for Dominic Bird - surely his nickname is "Big"?!

Swiwi

Be afraid, be very afraid! A NZ coach is coming to a club/province/country near you. Congratulations to Vern Cotter on securing the Scottish job! And joining his cuzzies "Joe" & "Gats" at the helm of a Celtic Nation. Choice bro! Not too long now and the plebs will be complaining about the superfifteenization of the 6N! We might just start watching the damn thing, instead of burying our head in the proverbial sand of THE Rugby Championship's superiority. Of course, no-one speaks Italian or French in Aotearoa, and Wayne Smith turned down the English job once he knew ther'd be a bounty on his head, so there's not quite a Kiwi hegemony just yet...

Ruck Inspector

Whitelock and Retallick is some combo and with Romano off the bench your talking about three top class locks.

Don't know much about Bird.

Swiwi

Ruck Inspector wrote: »

Whitelock and Retallick is some combo and with Romano off the bench your talking about three top class locks.

Don't know much about Bird.

Whitelock is now injured He has looked world-class at times during this SXV.

Bird just plays off the bench for the Crusaders, so he is being picked more on potential than proven form, but he's almost certain to make the reduced squad named this weekend after AW's retirement, and SW's injury. The only taller player in the SXV is Andries Bekker.