All Blacks Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Swiwi.

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

Didnt want to derail irish thread;

I didnt know ben smith could play centre too, i thought his main position was 15, and that he was on the wing because you cant leave dagg out of a team? The man is a damn beast if he can play 13 too!

That's pretty much it. But he has played 1 test at 13 so far, against Italy last November with Tamati Ellison at 12. NZ is a bit thin at 13 TBH, we seem at last to have a few 12s coming through, and no doubt MBW will be back for 2015 now, but depth at 13 is light. Aside Ben Smith, Ma'a Nonu can do a job, apparently Charles Piutau can play there (Blues looking at this for 2014), and Ryan Crotty went OK for the Crusaders, but hasn't really convinced everyone (myself included) that he can make the step up. IMO 8 and 13 are our weakest positions in terms of depth.

Swiwi.

ALL BLACKS: Israel Dagg, Cory Jane, Ben Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Julian Savea, Aaron Cruden, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (c), Liam Messam, Sam Whitelock, Jeremy Thrush, Charlie Faumuina, Keven Mealamu, Tony Woodcock. Reserves: Dane Coles, Wyatt Crockett, Ben Franks, Brodie Retallick, Sam Cane, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Beauden Barrett, Tom Taylor.

ABs side named for the dead Bledisloe rubber against Australia on Saturday morning. Shapes as a potential banana skin, as Aussie have everything to play for (except the Bledisloe :pac:), and NZ have to get themselves back up after Ellis Park. Figurative Viagra needed in the dressing room. Last year, the more astute among you will recall an 18-18 draw.

Main reasons I will at some stage watch this game: Cory Jane back on the wing, timed his return perfectly from injury. Ben Smith moves to centre. Jeremy Thrush gets a start in what is probably a trial for the 4th lock position (Whitelock, Retallick, Romano assured to tour) with the Crusader's Dominic Bird due back from a torn pectoral muscle.

Aussie have a number of injuries, including both wingers from their last game against Argentina, and CL, and I don't think they can win unless NZ don't turn up to play.

It's a bit of a yawn game, both because it's another of these 8.30am games, and because only pride is on the line (and a huge boost of confidence for Aussie if they win).

Taco Corp

very watch-able video about the All Blacks defence.

Hurk

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

very watch-able video about the All Blacks defence.

Scott Allen's analysis really is incredible. His videos are a joy to watch.

Swiwi.

Hurk wrote: »

Scott Allen's analysis really is incredible. His videos are a joy to watch.

The NZRFU is delighted to announce the appointment of Scott Allen as defensive coach for the AIG ABs. Welcome to the team Scott!

Swiwi.

Well that went well. Cory Jane's comeback lasted all of 0 minutes, he's ruled out with a hammy, while Rutchie has a tight calf. In come Sam Cane, and the deserving Charles Piutau.

Morf

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

very watch-able video about the All Blacks defence.

Interesting video. NZ do work the system very well though and frankly I think that Aus make too many mistakes and bad decisions to really capitalise on any structural weaknesses.

Expect a fairly run-of-the-mill win for NZ.

Morf

Swiwi. wrote: »

Well that went well. Cory Jane's comeback lasted all of 0 minutes, he's ruled out with a hammy, while Rutchie has a tight calf. In come Sam Cane, and the deserving Charles Piutau.

SOB's "Iron Fend Of The Season" crown remains unchallenged.

Morf

If NZ were in Ireland's position in a grass roots and elite rugby sense how do you think they would set about improving things?

I think adopting NZ's attitude of not accepting excuses would be a start. "You win or you change/improve something so you win the next time."

welkin

Lads sorry about this dumb question but why are the All Blacks playing Australia is the Bledisloe cup has already been decided during the Tri-Nations?

Howard Juneau

welkin wrote: »

Lads sorry about this dumb question but why are the All Blacks playing Australia is the Bledisloe cup has already been decided during the Tri-Nations?

It's a 3 match series. It's 2-0 to the AB's, last game has to be played of course

Swiwi.

Morf wrote: »

If NZ were in Ireland's position in a grass roots and elite rugby sense how do you think they would set about improving things?

I think adopting NZ's attitude of not accepting excuses would be a start. "You win or you change/improve something so you win the next time."

I think this has been discussed before...somewhere. There are many factors which contribute to NZ's success, not least that it's the national sport, so the best players migrate to rugby, rather than to say football or GAA as they might in Ireland.

But I think the fact that the whole setup in NZ is geared towards ensuring ongoing AB success is a major factor.

I'm not sure that telling Munster or Leinster or Ulster that HEC success comes secondary to Irish 6N success for example would be either useful or well-received.

I guess off the top of my head, a concerted effort to expand rugby's reach at a young age and to more counties might pay off in the long run, as I imagine the vast majority of rugby players come from Cork, Limerick, Dublin and nearby counties?

Swiwi.

welkin wrote: »

Lads sorry about this dumb question but why are the All Blacks playing Australia is the Bledisloe cup has already been decided during the Tri-Nations?

The Bledisloe always used to be either a 1-game or 3-game series...then the 3N came along, and it was altered to a 2-game series. Now back in the day when Aussie had players of the calibre of Eales, Mortlock, Burke etc the Bledisloe would routinely finish 1-1, usually with each side winning at home. So it was decided to take it back to a 3 game series a few years ago, with an extra Bledisloe match.

Ever since then, NZ has always been 2-0 up, and we get these dead rubbers.

Australia have a lot to play for, they don't beat NZ too often these days, so they would love a win.

It's a real banana skin for NZ to try and play at the same high intensity for a somewhat meaningless match. I guess for players like Jeremy Thrush a place on the end of year tour is at stake, Cruden wants to stay ahead of Barrett etc, but some players could have a 'mare, and it wouldn't harm their chances at all.

Aotearoa

It will be interesting to see how they get on without the worlds best 13 for the last 6/7 years in Conrad Smith.Kieran Read is currently the worlds best player and Ben Smith the worlds best back so it is worth a watch. i actually think Jane being injured is a blessing in disguise. He himself gets more time to recover and Charles Piutau will get the 80 minutes and two tries he deserves.Piutau is a game breaker .Big time.
Hope spongebob Barrett gets some game time too. IMO he is next in line to Dezzy but Cruden seems to have the selectors favour as it stands.

I think Barrett will be a crucial figure in WC 2015.

Morf

NZ Autumn Series Squad

Can't place Moody at all to be honest.

Journeyman_1

I just finished today's game. Ben smith didn't do a lot from 13, and I only really saw him do anything good from the wing. I think it's likely he'll start there in the autumn tests though.
However thrush, piatua (sp?) and the new prop all went well, however thrush won't have gotten ahead of retallick imo. Cane had another good game, and messam continued his very good form, and still deserves the 6 jersey imo.

Swiwi.

Morf wrote: »

NZ Autumn Series Squad

Can't place Moody at all to be honest.

Forwards: Dane Coles, Andrew Hore, Keven Mealamu, Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Owen Franks, Ben Franks, Joe Moody, Tony Woodcock, Brodie Retallick, Jeremy Thrush, Dominic Bird, Luke Romano, Sam Whitelock, Sam Cane, Steven Luatua, Richie McCaw (captain), Liam Messam, Kieran Read, Luke Whitelock

Backs: Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Aaron Smith, TJ Perenara, Beauden Barrett, Aaron Cruden, Dan Carter, Tom Taylor, Ma'a Nonu, Ryan Crotty, Francis Saili, Israel Dagg, Frank Halai, Cory Jane, Charles Piutau, Julian Savea, Ben Smith.

Moody is an up-and-coming LH prop with the Crusaders. I think Ireland could take a leaf out of NZ's book in terms of promoting youth. Of the uncapped players, Moody is 25, Bird is 22, Whitelock is 22, TJ Perenara is 21, Halai is 25 and Ardie Savea (who has been taken as an "apprentice" on the tour) is 20.

welkin

Great game of rugby.

Australia brought it but New Zealand are just too good

Todd Toddington III

Jesus just watched bledisloe 3. Fark that game was played at some pace. Amazing rugby

Morf

Recording failed.

Hope rugbydump put up decent highlights.

Todd Toddington III

Morf wrote: »

Recording failed.

Hope rugbydump put up decent highlights.

tt rugby videos on the youtubes. Game in full plus its justin marshall voicing who is very impartial and inciteful as a commentator

schools rugby

Im really frustrated that Beauden Barrett isnt the starting 10 at the moment. I really think he is a lovely player and brings more to the table than Cruden..

Would love to hear thoughts on this

Swiwi.

schools rugby wrote: »

Im really frustrated that Beauden Barrett isnt the starting 10 at the moment. I really think he is a lovely player and brings more to the table than Cruden..

Would love to hear thoughts on this

It's a matter of some debate in NZ. It might not change either, as Dan Carter is likely to get the Japan game after yet another injury spell, and then for France & England as a minimum I expect Carter to start, and I'm not sure what will happen for the Ireland game, maybe Carter will be spelled if he has played 3 consecutive games.

I think it will need SXV 2014 for Barrett to overtake Cruden, it's not going to happen this year.

The other talking point is that McCaw & Carter are starting to get somewhat viewed as no longer indispensable, in the sense that Cane & Cruden/Barrett are proving very good players. One journalist even suggested giving Kieran Read the captaincy on a full-time basis.

I am happy with the way Hansen is constantly rejigging the margins, there is now a large pool of international class players who weren't around in 2011 eg Aaron Smith, Brodie Retallick, Charles Piutau etc.

Swiwi.

Todd Toddington III wrote: »

Jesus just watched bledisloe 3. Fark that game was played at some pace. Amazing rugby

It's the most points NZ have ever conceded on home soil

Fun to watch, but it was Super Rugby-esque, and I expect the NH teams to play a much tighter game, as if they try and match this approach they risk being slaughtered. Better to play to their strengths, and make Australia & NZ battle for possession.

Aotearoa

Swiwi. wrote: »

It's a matter of some debate in NZ. It might not change either, as Dan Carter is likely to get the Japan game after yet another injury spell, and then for France & England as a minimum I expect Carter to start, and I'm not sure what will happen for the Ireland game, maybe Carter will be spelled if he has played 3 consecutive games.

I think it will need SXV 2014 for Barrett to overtake Cruden, it's not going to happen this year.

The other talking point is that McCaw & Carter are starting to get somewhat viewed as no longer indispensable, in the sense that Cane & Cruden/Barrett are proving very good players. One journalist even suggested giving Kieran Read the captaincy on a full-time basis.

I am happy with the way Hansen is constantly rejigging the margins, there is now a large pool of international class players who weren't around in 2011 eg Aaron Smith, Brodie Retallick, Charles Piutau etc.

If its Chris Rattue are on about,i read the article.It was rancid.
A paid troll.

Aotearoa

I think Barrett is a phenomenal player. The heir to the throne in my opinion. His tackle on Willie Le Roux in Jo'burg was my favourite piece of rugby this year.

Swiwi.

Aotearoa wrote: »

If its Chris Rattue are on about,i read the article.It was rancid.
A paid troll.

Most of the time, yes. But occasionally he has a point. McCaw & Carter seem injured more often than not these days.

However, Rattue constantly makes wild speculations that come to nothing "Ben Smith isn't test match material", "Chiefs won't win SXV 2013" are a couple that come to mind.

Digifriendly

On a related note Australia's record this season reads Played 10 Won 3 lost 7. Pretty disappointing overall despite encouraging signs in last 2 games. In case anyone missed it NZ's record is Played 10 Won 10.

CatFromHue

Digifriendly wrote: »

On a related note Australia's record this season reads Played 10 Won 3 lost 7. Pretty disappointing overall despite encouraging signs in last 2 games. In case anyone missed it NZ's record is Played 10 Won 10.

They've only lost to the top 2 teams in the world and against the Lions.

They've a full schedule in November when they play 5 (!!!!) games

England, Italy, Ireland, Scotland, and then Wales on consecutive weeks, I can see them winning at least 4 out 5 of these to be honest though.

Swiwi.

CatFromHue wrote: »

They've only lost to the top 2 teams in the world and against the Lions.

They've a full schedule in November when they play 5 (!!!!) games

England, Italy, Ireland, Scotland, and then Wales on consecutive weeks, I can see them winning at least 4 out 5 of these to be honest though.

Ok, they should beat Italy & Scotland, but somehow they have contrived to lose to the Scots twice in recent times. Given it's England's first game of the season, Ireland will only have just started under Schmidt, and Aussie should be ready to rumble after the RC, I reckon they can win those 2 as well, provided their scrum holds its own. That leaves Wales...who have an appalling record against Australia in recent times, but might have a bit more confidence after the Lions series.

I'd say 3/5 - if it includes England or Wales (RWC pool members) - would be a pass, 4/5 would be a success, and 5/5 a triumph.

Edit: in saying that, 5 consecutive games means squad rotation required, which could prove problematic for them.

CatFromHue

Wales will have their own problems as they play SA, Arg, Tonga, and then Oz all on consecutive weekends. That could go very well or equally pretty bad for them.

In fairness to Oz one of their recent losses to Scotland was in such bad conditions that only because it was a pro game was the reason it went ahead.

Swiwi.

CatFromHue wrote: »

Wales will have their own problems as they play SA, Arg, Tonga, and then Oz all on consecutive weekends. That could go very well or equally pretty bad for them.

In fairness to Oz one of their recent losses to Scotland was in such bad conditions that only because it was a pro game was the reason it went ahead.

Wales should beat Tonga, but SA of course & Arg will rate their chances. Depends which Argentina shows up. Tonga might cause injuries though...

Morf

CatFromHue wrote: »

Wales will have their own problems as they play SA, Arg, Tonga, and then Oz all on consecutive weekends. That could go very well or equally pretty bad for them.

In fairness to Oz one of their recent losses to Scotland was in such bad conditions that only because it was a pro game was the reason it went ahead.

Oz and the rain don't mix unless you play all Force and Brumbies players.

CatFromHue

Morf wrote: »

Oz and the rain don't mix unless you play all Force and Brumbies players.

It wasn't just rain that day, it was a tropical storm i.e. you'd be drier in a swimming pool!

Morf

CatFromHue wrote: »

It wasn't just rain that day, it was a tropical storm i.e. you'd be drier in a swimming pool!

True. See Oz v Munster.

Or QLD playing the Force when it tips it down.

Morf

Nonu has signed on for two more years.

Joining the Blues.

I'll be a big feather in the cap of Kirwan if he can stop the squad imploding next year.

Any rumours of a sweetener for Auckland to take him? Canes and Highlanders have been burned and Crusaders would seem to have a team atmosphere completely incompatible with "that kind of player".

Aotearoa

Morf wrote: »

Nonu has signed on for two more years.

Joining the Blues.

I'll be a big feather in the cap of Kirwan if he can stop the squad imploding next year.

Any rumours of a sweetener for Auckland to take him? Canes and Highlanders have been burned and Crusaders would seem to have a team atmosphere completely incompatible with "that kind of player".

as happy as i am for him i would have liked him at another franchise.
benji is gonna play 15 and saili and piutau at 12 and 13 respectively .

to accomodate nonu piutau switches back to full back and benji goes to 10.

was really interested in seeing piutau at 13.

Swiwi.

Morf wrote: »

Nonu has signed on for two more years.

Joining the Blues.

I'll be a big feather in the cap of Kirwan if he can stop the squad imploding next year.

Any rumours of a sweetener for Auckland to take him? Canes and Highlanders have been burned and Crusaders would seem to have a team atmosphere completely incompatible with "that kind of player".

I imagine some pressure was brought to bear. With SBW staying in league NZ really needed Nonu to stay. I reckon he'll go OK.

Journeyman_1

Its so frustrating that a player of Nonus' ability just refuses to perform with a club. I can't even imagine how the club coaching staff feel.

Morf

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

Its so frustrating that a player of Nonus' ability just refuses to perform with a club. I can't even imagine how the club coaching staff feel.

I think it might be more of an achievement for the national team to get the best out of him rather than focusing on the regions struggling not to implode while he is there.

Swiwi.

Will be interested to see the team chosen for Japan. Tony Woodcock, Luke Romano, Sam Whitelock, Kieran Read, Liam Messam, Israel Dagg, Cory Jane, Julian Savea, Ardie Savea and Aaron Cruden are not being considered for selection for this game, so it will be more of a "B" side.

toomevara

Don't know if you guys are across this, but the Kiwis had a crunching game against the Samoans in the RLWC last night and poor old Sonny Bill had a complete howler moment blowing a try…the vid's on the RL forum...

Glass Prison 1214

toomevara wrote: »

Don't know if you guys are across this, but the Kiwis had a crunching game against the Samoans in the RLWC last night and poor old Sonny Bill had a complete howler moment blowing a try…the vid's on the RL forum...

Its just been posted in the off topic thread here, its hilarious!

bilston

toomevara wrote: »

Don't know if you guys are across this, but the Kiwis had a crunching game against the Samoans in the RLWC last night and poor old Sonny Bill had a complete howler moment blowing a try…the vid's on the RL forum...

I was about to come on and post about this too. The look on SBW's face was priceless. To be fair he wasn't even showboating, he just slipped! Still very very funny.

Swiwi.

So what's going on in AB land ahead of the upcoming test against Ireland?

• Everyone agrees the ABs were well below par against Japan, Charles Piutau excepted (who is being suggested as giving Cory Jane a good run for his money for the 14 jersey)
• There is growing concern about the AB scrum, which is not quite yet an Achilles Heel, but the last thing you'd want to do is give NH teams a sniff
• France are never really seen as a threat outside of RWC (where of course they are always very much a threat), so a win is seen as fairly likely this weekend, with the usual platitudes about depending on which French side turns up etc
• Despite the fact we look down our noses at the style of rugby England play, there is a healthy dose of wariness, especially regarding the scrum. No-one wants to say it, but there would be much hand-wringing, sackcloth etc if we lost again at Twickenham
• Ireland not really being discussed yet, in fact I don't suspect they will come too much into focus until after the English game

Morf

If there's a Cory Jane going spare . . . you know . . . we'd fine a squad spot for him somewhere. D4 possibly . . .

Swiwi.

Julian Savea has the 'flu. Which annoys me as I really wanted Hansen to have to choose between Jane & Piutau. Now the decision has been made for him if Savea doesn't recover. There is no way Frank Halai would be trusted with the 11 jersey.

Swiwi.

How times have changed. In a NZ Herald poll 2/3 people voted Kieran Read more important to the ABs than Richie McCaw.

Buer

Swiwi. wrote: »

How times have changed. In a NZ Herald poll 2/3 people voted Kieran Read more important to the ABs than Richie McCaw.

You couldn't really disagree with it though, could you? Lose McCaw and you've got Sam Cane to come in who has done a really good job. Lose Read and who replaces him? McCaw?

Regardless of suitability for position, Read has just become freakishly consistent. He turns in top level performances nearly every cap.

Oh for the days from 2008-10 when Heaslip was cleaning up winning MOTM awards in pretty much every second Ireland and Leinster game.

Swiwi.

Buer wrote: »

You couldn't really disagree with it though, could you? Lose McCaw and you've got Sam Cane to come in who has done a really good job. Lose Read and who replaces him? McCaw?

Regardless of suitability for position, Read has just become freakishly consistent. He turns in top level performances nearly every cap.

Oh for the days from 2008-10 when Heaslip was cleaning up winning MOTM awards in pretty much every second Ireland and Leinster game.

Yeah, I was one of the 2/3!!!

There is no backup to Read. McCaw at a pinch on this tour, otherwise Victor Vito will be watching the game on the box back home. Whitelock is way too green, and I'm not convinced anyway.