All Blacks Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

the baby bull elephant

Le vieux renard wrote: »

To which I might reply with other 2 words: Christian Cullen, Leon MacDonald, Mils Muliaina.

I'm not against the idea, but in that case I'd like to see him play all of the end of year internationals at 13, not a 15 minute run or so from time to time.

I think 13 is easy enough offensively if you're a gifted player, but it's on defence that the best 13s make their mark, and it takes time to learn that.

I think Ben Smith is a class 15, but he's going to end up at 14 for the Rugby Championship (due to Dagg) where he's good, but no Cory Jane. So if he can convert to 13 that would be very handy. NZ is never short of good 15s, aside Dagg, Piutau is also very good, and there are plenty of others who I am sure could make the step up if needed, even Cory Jane prefers 15.

Except I'm pretty sure Smith has played more there than those two had. He's well suited for it. I agree he'll be at 14 for the RC but I know Otago/Highlander fans who are adamant that Smith is the future at 13 and in fairness he's more similar to the like of Payne than Cullen. Oh btw Hansen has spoken about Piatau as a 13 I'm pretty sure.

Swiwi.

Ok, it's not really AB news, but Hawke's Bay have claimed the Ranfurly Shield off Otago. First time HB have held it since since 1969. The Ranfurly remains a much-beloved relic of the amateur era - it would be the same as an Irish county taking home the Sam Maguire or the Liam McCarthy cups.

irishbucsfan

I've never seen a ginger move that fast

Swiwi.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I've never seen a ginger move that fast

He's almost certainly got a bit of Irish in him from back in the day. It's not uncommon to find a Maori with a name like Huia or Hika O'Reilly (in this case Ihaia West), and a ginger mane.

Swiwi.

GiftofGab wrote: »

Don't think the All-Blacks should be as feared as they were a few years ago. My person opinion only! Think they might dip in form this year. Australia would give these guys a great run for the money at the moment.

Some players are way off form / past it. Nonu for example. He shouldn't make any top international side any more. Great in his time. Dagg once set the world alight but hasn't done anything in a while.

They need Ranger at the moment. Can't afford to lose him. He's moved to 13 and has been playing some of the best rugby of his career.

Halai is another wonder. Looking forward to seeing him in an all black shirt.

Would have though Nani-Williams should be in the squad. He should have taken Nonu's spot.

Ah, the gift of hindsight. If only Swiwi was still around to read this.

Swiwi.

And the Ranfurly Shield is on the move again! Hawke's Bay have the ignominy of the shortest tenure in history...and Tana Umaga's Counties lift the shield for the first time ever (27-24). There'll be dancing on the streets of Pukekohe tonight! Listened to the last 10 minutes on the wireless (well, OK, TuneIn Radio), and it was edge of the seat stuff.

Swiwi.

Jerome Kaino rumoured to be returning to NZ for NZ$700,000 year. Which is apparently a NZ$300,000 drop on his currently salary. Likely to play 8 for the Blues, which is great, because there really is no-one after Kieran Read. Someone should pick up Victor Vito, he would make a good signing for an Irish province, I don't think he will feature in AB plans too much again, but at provincial level he's a good player.

Todd Toddington III

Swiwi. wrote: »

Jerome Kaino rumoured to be returning to NZ for NZ$700,000 year. Which is apparently a NZ$300,000 drop on his currently salary. Likely to play 8 for the Blues, which is great, because there really is no-one after Kieran Read. Someone should pick up Victor Vito, he would make a good signing for an Irish province, I don't think he will feature in AB plans too much again, but at provincial level he's a good player.

Think we have enough 6s in the country as good as vito is. More Irish players in irish teams and less imports god dammit, they took ar jaaabs!

.ak

Swiwi. wrote: »

Jerome Kaino rumoured to be returning to NZ for NZ$700,000 year. Which is apparently a NZ$300,000 drop on his currently salary. Likely to play 8 for the Blues, which is great, because there really is no-one after Kieran Read. Someone should pick up Victor Vito, he would make a good signing for an Irish province, I don't think he will feature in AB plans too much again, but at provincial level he's a good player.

Where did Kaino go? Japan?

Swiwi.

.ak wrote: »

Where did Kaino go? Japan?

Yeah, Japan for mega-bucks. But he was always keen to have another shot at playing for the ABs for 2015. Since he's gone, no-one has totally locked down the 6 jersey, but as you know I think Luatua is highly promising, and Messam is a solid and at times excellent player.

If Kaino could turn into an 8 that would be very handy, it would be really really unlucky on Messam to miss out on 2015, after he was cut from the 2011 squad for the very underwhelming Adam Thomson. I really like Messam in that he has been very loyal to the Chiefs & NZ despite getting overlooked for NZ for much of his early career.

Kaino has an out clause, so if he doesn't make the ABs in 2014, he can race back to the money in Japan (or Toulon...). However, unless he plays like a drain, he'll be picked for sure, he has a lot of credit in the bank after being NZ's best forward in 2011.

The big loser in all this is Victor Vito - who IMO is really only an 8 at international level, and seems to be slipping off the radar - he only has himself to blame really. He might be better to move back to 7s where he was a star, and aim for Rio de Janeiro olympics.

With Read the 8 unless injured, the battle for the AB starting 6 between Messam, Kaino & Luatua could be massive, and there is also Brad Shields (Canes), who is realistically probably more an option for the Lions 2017, he's still very young.

.ak

Swiwi. wrote: »

Yeah, Japan for mega-bucks. But he was always keen to have another shot at playing for the ABs for 2015. Since he's gone, no-one has totally locked down the 6 jersey, but as you know I think Luatua is highly promising, and Messam is a solid and at times excellent player.

If Kaino could turn into an 8 that would be very handy, it would be really really unlucky on Messam to miss out on 2015, after he was cut from the 2011 squad for the very underwhelming Adam Thomson. I really like Messam in that he has been very loyal to the Chiefs & NZ despite getting overlooked for NZ for much of his early career.

Kaino has an out clause, so if he doesn't make the ABs in 2014, he can race back to the money in Japan (or Toulon...). However, unless he plays like a drain, he'll be picked for sure, he has a lot of credit in the bank after being NZ's best forward in 2011.

The big loser in all this is Victor Vito - who IMO is really only an 8 at international level, and seems to be slipping off the radar - he only has himself to blame really. He might be better to move back to 7s where he was a star, and aim for Rio de Janeiro olympics.

With Read the 8 unless injured, the battle for the AB starting 6 between Messam, Kaino & Luatua could be massive, and there is also Brad Shields (Canes), who is realistically probably more an option for the Lions 2017, he's still very young.

Personally I'd have Kaino starting ahead of Messam (although who knows what a few tog outs in Japan has done to his game). Messam on the bench. That allows plenty of movement should one of the starting backrow goes off.

Swiwi.

.ak wrote: »

Personally I'd have Kaino starting ahead of Messam (although who knows what a few tog outs in Japan has done to his game). Messam on the bench. That allows plenty of movement should one of the starting backrow goes off.

Yeah, Luatua is a 6/lock, which is awfully useful, Kaino is a 6/8, and Messam is probably a 6>7=8, so the most versatile for the bench.

Swiwi.

NZ playing England 4 times in 2014 :mad:

Not sure I'd give a sucker an even break. So that's an AI v Eng in 2012/2013/2014...

Buer

Swiwi. wrote: »

NZ playing England 4 times in 2014 :mad:

Not sure I'd give a sucker an even break. So that's an AI v Eng in 2012/2013/2014...

Money talks. That's the fixture that sells tickets. People know that NZ don't have anything over England mentally and will make a game of it unlike any other NH side at the moment.

Swiwi.

Buer wrote: »

Money talks. That's the fixture that sells tickets. People know that NZ don't have anything over England mentally and will make a game of it unlike any other NH side at the moment.

Lancaster is heading out to Ellis Park this weekend apparenetly. I must say he strikes me as a very good coach, and down to earth.

Which NH team would I least like to face in a RWC knock-out match? Without a doubt France, as form counts for zilch with them (in fact the worse their form the more likely they are to win), but England would be next. In saying that, NZ is 3-0 against England in RWC including beating them at Twickenham in 1999 (admittedly only pool play). I think the Celtic Teams all have a mental block, all 3 have come close from time to time, but none has been able to seal the deal. England's biggest strength is also their weakness though - self-confidence. They were very confident in 1999, and from memory they rated themselves highly in '91 and '95 too. Pride before a fall - applies to NZ too, although ours is more a problem of not being able to cope with favouritism when falling behind on the scoreboard in an apparently gimme match.

Howard Juneau

Sonny Bill Williams wasn't selected for the league world cup tourney due to 'other commitments"
Boxing? Or perhaps a return to the 15 man game. Haven't heard any rumors as of yet.

Swiwi.

Howard Juneau wrote: »

Sonny Bill Williams wasn't selected for the league world cup tourney due to 'other commitments"
Boxing? Or perhaps a return to the 15 man game. Haven't heard any rumors as of yet.

SBW specialises in leaving everyone in suspense. However, it is widely anticipated he will return to the Chiefs for the 2014 SXV season. I would expect he would sign until 2015. Then he would go elsewhere in search of fame & fortune, unless he could be tempted by the 2017 Lions series (I doubt it).

Journeyman_1

How different do we think the autumn team will be to the RC team? Obv no Conrad Smith, but will there be some youth experimentation or just strongest 1-15? I feel like the weakest part of that team is the front row, are there any promising players coming through in that area?

Swiwi.

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

How different do we think the autumn team will be to the RC team? Obv no Conrad Smith, but will there be some youth experimentation or just strongest 1-15? I feel like the weakest part of that team is the front row, are there any promising players coming through in that area?

The ABs are playing Japan en route to Europe, and this team will be made up of fringe and up-and-coming players. Otherwise I suspect the squad will mostly be the same players we saw in the RC. It is thought Ardie Savea might get the call up though, as he has AB written all over him.

I'd agree re the scrum, I miss Carl Hayman! Our main weakness at the moment. The 2 Chiefs TH props Ben Afeaki & Ben Tameifuna are promising, but the latter is not fit enough for international rugby according to Hansen, so I don't think he will be chosen. I'd like to see Ben Franks get more of a go, but he has mainly played LH this year.

There is no doubt that England & their press (SJ) will be waiting for Coles & Corbisiero to inflict damage. Coles is over-rated, but Corbisiero is a serious LH prop. I have no concerns about the other English props (Marler, Vunipola etc).

NB: I'll review the squad, including any ITM cup bolters/unfamiliar faces to Irish viewers when team named. ITM bolters are out of vogue these days, but given the Japan test, who knows. Issues for the selectors as I see it: TH props, next generation of hookers, backup to Read (?Victor Vito still), midfield depth, backup left wing to Savea.

Swiwi.

SBW sticking with league

He's a right prat, just witness his 11th hour about-face to represent the Kiwis in league, but I love watching him play union, his combination with Cruden at the Chiefs was first-rate.

I hope he isn't whisked back into the ABs in 2015 off the back of a few SXV appearances, but I wouldn't bet against it. The search for a back-up to Nonu continues, I would anoint Bundee Aki, but Francis Saili has the inside running so far. Tom Taylor is a decent option too.

Teferi

That's disappointing.

I dislike his mercenary approach to our sport but you can't say he isn't an exciting player.

Swiwi.

Teferi wrote: »

That's disappointing.

I dislike his mercenary approach to our sport but you can't say he isn't an exciting player.

Yeah, you end up tolerating his shenanigans just because he's fun to watch. The SBW off-load has been taken up by a fair few players, not least Kieran Read...

sparky1981

The all blacks are a ferocious unit no matter what 15 they put out.

astonaidan

From a rugby fan point of view, Id love for him to go straight back into the All Blacks squad.
He has that Carlos Spencer appeal where peripheral fans love to watch him play

Fireball07

Am I the only one who thinks he's incredibly overrated?


Has a load of talent, sure, but I'd take a Smith-Nonu centre partnership every day of the week, ahead of one with SBW.

Swiwi.

astonaidan wrote: »

From a rugby fan point of view, Id love for him to go straight back into the All Blacks squad.
He has that Carlos Spencer appeal where peripheral fans love to watch him play

TBH, he hasn't really left an indelible mark on the ABs yet. He was a peripheral figure in 2011 - if he'd come back next year he would have had a golden opportunity with Nonu likely to be playing overseas, but now if he comes in 2015, the selectors might feel it's too late, although I've no doubt he'd make a 30-man squad. But yes, he's like Spencer, Cooper, Folau, Chabal etc, one of those easily watchable players.

Swiwi.

Fireball07 wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks he's incredibly overrated?


Has a load of talent, sure, but I'd take a Smith-Nonu centre partnership every day of the week, ahead of one with SBW.

He's not over-rated, but he hasn't spent enough time in Union at international level to show his potential true worth. It's one thing to be all razzle-dazzle for the Chiefs in Super Rugby, it's quite another to go to Ellis Park and do what Nonu & Smith did last weekend. Jury is out.

.ak

He just doesn't want to come back and face Healy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2pT6GMMcjg

CatFromHue

Eugh there's so many things about how we play in that clip that piss me off.

Journeyman_1

Didnt want to derail irish thread;

I didnt know ben smith could play centre too, i thought his main position was 15, and that he was on the wing because you cant leave dagg out of a team? The man is a damn beast if he can play 13 too!