Gerry Adams on RTE PrimeTime--29-05-13

.jacksparrow.

It's swings and roundabouts, if you look right back at the history of Ireland there was many deals and peace agreements only for them to break down, it might not happen now but sooner or later this process will break down if there is no evidence of its promises.

R P McMurphy

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

It's swings and roundabouts, if you look right back at the history of Ireland there was many deals and peace agreements only for them to break down, it might not happen now but sooner or later this process will break down if there is no evidence of its promises.

I think that there will be a choice for unionists in the next few decades, living in a united Ireland where they will have a greater say in policy making as a substantial bank in the dail or quite possibly at the end of this decade living as things are but in a Sinn Fein dominated assembly where they are the junior partners. I am not sure either will appeal

.jacksparrow.

R P McMurphy wrote: »

I think that there will be a choice for unionists in the next few decades, living in a united Ireland where they will have a greater say in policy making as a substantial bank in the dail or quite possibly at the end of this decade living as things are but in a Sinn Fein dominated assembly where they are the junior partners. I am not sure either will appeal

Well if a deal is ever reached it has to benefit both sides, that goes without saying.

SoulandForm

R P McMurphy wrote: »

I think that there will be a choice for unionists in the next few decades, living in a united Ireland where they will have a greater say in policy making as a substantial bank in the dail or quite possibly at the end of this decade living as things are but in a Sinn Fein dominated assembly where they are the junior partners. I am not sure either will appeal

This is a PSF way at looking at things.

PSF who consider those consider those who carried out the Kingsmill massacre heroes while those who executed those British soldiers in 2009 traitors to the island of Ireland. Real Irish Republicanism is not about taking a side in the sectarian bear pit of NI but about the National Liberation of the whole country. PSF are happy are about "foreign investment" and increasingly content with the EU. There could easily be the ending of partition while Ireland would remain unfree.

Chips Lovell

SoulandForm wrote: »

National Liberation of the whole country.

Wow. Scary.

SoulandForm

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Wow. Scary.

For who?

Chips Lovell

Pretty much everybody with the exception of those who think Ireland needs to be "liberated".

Crooked Jack

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Wow. Scary.

so liberation = bad.
Gerrymandering = good.
You're a quare one alright.

tdv123

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Pretty much everybody with the exception of those who think Ireland needs to be "liberated".

Those damned allied powers liberating the Jews. :mad:

Crooked Jack

SoulandForm wrote: »

This is a PSF way at looking at things.

PSF who consider those consider those who carried out the Kingsmill massacre heroes while those who executed those British soldiers in 2009 traitors to the island of Ireland. Real Irish Republicanism is not about taking a side in the sectarian bear pit of NI but about the National Liberation of the whole country. PSF are happy are about "foreign investment" and increasingly content with the EU. There could easily be the ending of partition while Ireland would remain unfree.

Sinn Fein condemned Kingsmill unreservedly. The IRA leadership (and indeed grass roots members) were furious with it. It was carried out without authorisation and brought the entire army into disrepute.
Nobody, least of all republicans, hails this most shameful act as heroic.

Chips Lovell

I take it you endorse this "liberation" of democratic countries as well.

Chips Lovell

tdv123 wrote: »

Those damned allied powers liberating the Jews. :mad:

It just gets better and better. You're comparing Irish people today to Jews in WW2?

Hannibal

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Would be a hell of a lot less than four, be lucky to get two full counties at the period of partition with clear unionist majorities http://www.lancs.ac.uk/troubledgeogs/map_series.htm

it's the same nowadays aswell with only Down and Antrim holding a majority.

SoulandForm wrote: »

This is a PSF way at looking at things.

PSF who consider those consider those who carried out the Kingsmill massacre heroes while those who executed those British soldiers in 2009 traitors to the island of Ireland. Real Irish Republicanism is not about taking a side in the sectarian bear pit of NI but about the National Liberation of the whole country. PSF are happy are about "foreign investment" and increasingly content with the EU. There could easily be the ending of partition while Ireland would remain unfree.

that's a name that hasn't been used since the early 70's

SoulandForm

Dotsey wrote: »

it's the same nowadays aswell with only Down and Antrim holding a majority.

that's a name that hasn't been used since the early 70's

There is also Republican Sinn Fein.

We could also get into the role that Free State Capitalists played in creating a split a Republican movement in the late 60s.

http://www.patfinucanereview.org/report/volume01/chapter007/

7.253 In his journal, Nelson suggested that in his subsequent discussions with the FRU:

"It was told to me, by my Handlers, that the assassination of Adams, had it gone ahead, would have been totally counterproductive particularly considering the delicate balance of power within Sinn Fein."

Hannibal

SoulandForm wrote: »

There is also Republican Sinn Fein.

We could also get into the role that Free State Capitalists played in creating a split a Republican movement in the late 60s.

http://www.patfinucanereview.org/report/volume01/chapter007/

7.253 In his journal, Nelson suggested that in his subsequent discussions with the FRU:

"It was told to me, by my Handlers, that the assassination of Adams, had it gone ahead, would have been totally counterproductive particularly considering the delicate balance of power within Sinn Fein."

Republican Sinn Fein are Republican Sinn Fein, they left Sinn Fein in 1986 and were formed by calling themselves Republican Sinn Fein. Sinn Fein on the otherhand have been Sinn Fein since 1905, the term "Provisional" Sinn Fein was never used by the party itself but it was used by others to distinguish Sinn Fein from Official Sinn Fein

The split in republicans in the late 60's was more down to the situation that the ruling British and unionists created, the IRA or "I Ran Away" to which they were being refered to by nationalists due to their lack of military repsonse to the violence being unloaded on the nationalists. What happened was a split between those who wanted a Marxist ideology at the heart of the IRA and those who felt that the only repsonse to the attacks on civil rights activists by the Loyalists and the RUC was a military repsonse.

Chuck Stone

SoulandForm wrote: »

PSF who consider those consider those who carried out the Kingsmill massacre heroes

You'd want to be an evil cunt to think that that massacre was anything but murderous degeneracy.

SoulandForm

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Sinn Fein condemned Kingsmill unreservedly. The IRA leadership (and indeed grass roots members) were furious with it. It was carried out without authorisation and brought the entire army into disrepute.
Nobody, least of all republicans, hails this most shameful act as heroic.

Okay so what you are basically saying is that you have no interest in reaching out to northern Protestants such as myself who support Republican goals- what is the Unionist outreach nonsense about than????

SoulandForm

Dotsey wrote: »

Republican Sinn Fein are Republican Sinn Fein, they left Sinn Fein in 1986 and were formed by calling themselves Republican Sinn Fein. Sinn Fein on the otherhand have been Sinn Fein since 1905, the term "Provisional" Sinn Fein was never used by the party itself but it was used by others to distinguish Sinn Fein from Official Sinn Fein

The split in republicans in the late 60's was more down to the situation that the ruling British and unionists created, the IRA or "I Ran Away" to which they were being refered to by nationalists due to their lack of military repsonse to the violence being unloaded on the nationalists. What happened was a split between those who wanted a Marxist ideology at the heart of the IRA and those who felt that the only repsonse to the attacks on civil rights activists by the Loyalists and the RUC was a military repsonse.

When it was the OIRA that did most of the actual defending in reality in 69 that is laughable.

RandomName2

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Would be a hell of a lot less than four, be lucky to get two full counties at the period of partition with clear unionist majorities http://www.lancs.ac.uk/troubledgeogs/map_series.htm

A quarter of Ireland's population at the time was Protestant.

2 counties out of 32?

Right. :rolleyes:

In 1911, including Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal, Protestants were in a majority in Ulster (837,509 Non-Catholics compared to 674,264 Catholics).

In 1926, Northern Ireland was 62.2% non-Catholic.

The exclusion of the other three Ulster counties wasn't purely out of Unionist benevolence of course, as maintaining a stronger Protestant majority made it more certain that Northern Ireland's politics would be controlled by Protestants.

This image is a bit more clear:
http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S2212682112000297-gr4.jpg

Hannibal

SoulandForm wrote: »

When it was the OIRA that did most of the actual defending in reality in 69 that is laughable.

the split only occured in around November/December of 1969, Joe Cahill stopped taking orders from the September due to the failure of the pre-split leadership to defend their area. After the split 9 out of the 12 IRA Belfast units were absorbed into the PIRA.
Martin McGuinness himself has stated that he joined the OIRA without knowing which IRA he was in and only joined PIRA after this so a lot of the lines are blurred, what is known is that the OIRA were on ceasefire from 72/73 then a further split in 1974 within that organisation led to the founding of the INLA

R P McMurphy

RandomName2 wrote: »

A quarter of Ireland's population at the time was Protestant.

2 counties out of 32?

Right. :rolleyes:

In 1911, including Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal, Protestants were in a majority in Ulster (837,509 Non-Catholics compared to 674,264 Catholics).

In 1926, Northern Ireland was 62.2% non-Catholic.

The exclusion of the other three Ulster counties wasn't purely out of Unionist benevolence of course, as maintaining a stronger Protestant majority made it more certain that Northern Ireland's politics would be controlled by Protestants.

This image is a bit more clear:
http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S2212682112000297-gr4.jpg

Yes and is clear in that image that the non-catholic population was predominantly situated in about two and a half counties

Just because the population of non-Catholics was very large in antrim does not give a majority in fermanagh so roll away with your eyes

SoulandForm

Dotsey wrote: »

the split only occured in around November/December of 1969, Joe Cahill stopped taking orders from the September due to the failure of the pre-split leadership to defend their area. After the split 9 out of the 12 IRA Belfast units were absorbed into the PIRA.
Martin McGuinness himself has stated that he joined the OIRA without knowing which IRA he was in and only joined PIRA after this so a lot of the lines are blurred, what is known is that the OIRA were on ceasefire from 72/73 then a further split in 1974 within that organisation led to the founding of the INLA

Aye Martin Mc Guinness who said those who kill British soldiers in Ireland are trairors to the island of Ireland now that the Catholic middle class get all the blessings the Prod one used to have under the same colonial situation- that Martin McGuinness? The one who left the army in 73?

Butter wouldnt melt in his mouth.

SoulandForm

http://thebrokenelbow.com/2013/05/03/thatchers-archive-finally-settles-dispute-over-hunger-strike-deal-says-ira-prison-leader/

Shame on Adams.

LordSutch

SoulandForm wrote: »

The one who left the army in 73?

The Army is it?

I guess you mean the Provo's, also known as the Provisional IRA (a proscribed Terrorist/paramilitary outfit)
outlawed in the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom until they were disbanded and disarmed!

Nobody, apart from fellow travellers/ IRA sympathisers calls them 'the army'.

.jacksparrow.

LordSutch wrote: »

The Army is it?

I guess you mean the Provo's, also known as the Provisional IRA (a proscribed Terrorist/paramilitary outfit)
outlawed in the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom until they were disbanded and disarmed!

Nobody, apart from fellow travellers/ IRA sympathisers calls them 'the army'.

Give it a rest, its like a broken record at this stage.

SoulandForm

LordSutch wrote: »

The Army is it?

I guess you mean the Provo's, also known as the Provisional IRA (a proscribed Terrorist/paramilitary outfit)
outlawed in the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom until they were disbanded and disarmed!

Nobody, apart from fellow travellers/ IRA sympathisers calls them 'the army'.

As a northern Protestant Im not a fellow traveler of the Provos.

However they were more a legitimate army than either the Free State one or especially that of the UK state.

My name is URL

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Give it a rest, its like a broken record at this stage.

That's an insult to broken records all over the world. At least they had a use and brought joy to people's lives for a time.

SoulandForm

Dotsey wrote: »

the split only occured in around November/December of 1969, Joe Cahill stopped taking orders from the September due to the failure of the pre-split leadership to defend their area. After the split 9 out of the 12 IRA Belfast units were absorbed into the PIRA.
Martin McGuinness himself has stated that he joined the OIRA without knowing which IRA he was in and only joined PIRA after this so a lot of the lines are blurred, what is known is that the OIRA were on ceasefire from 72/73 then a further split in 1974 within that organisation led to the founding of the INLA

tdv123

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

It just gets better and better. You're comparing Irish people today to Jews in WW2?

Yes, were waiting on the Red Soviet Army to help us out.

Nah, I was just being sarcastic in the previous post thought you would have got that. I overestimated you it seems.

Happyman42

LordSutch wrote: »

The Army is it?

I guess you mean the Provo's, also known as the Provisional IRA (a proscribed Terrorist/paramilitary outfit)
outlawed in the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom until they were disbanded and disarmed!

Nobody, apart from fellow travellers/ IRA sympathisers calls them 'the army'.

The army that dictated to mighty Britain when they would disarm and the British backed down?