Gerry Adams on RTE PrimeTime--29-05-13

Chips Lovell

Crooked Jack wrote: »

so you ignore a national vote, cordon off a section of the country with an artificial majority that happens to be in your favour and then ask them again on an issue that affects the entire nation. you have a perverse and frankly terrifying view of what constitutes democracy.

I know, it's outrageous isn't it? One part of an island wants independence, another part doesn't and the solution adopted is to fiendishly let them both go their separate ways.

Busted Flat.

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Indeed, and we've had a bit of nationalist rioting too, not to mention dissident violence. There are still nutters on both sides.

Goodnight Vlad, someday you will understand what went on in the war, and how people and communities were destroyed to protect the elite, the future is there for the people who want to move on. Unfortunately there are some on both sides of the border cannot accept that. Some on this thread think, by stating that the IRA were totally responsible for what happened in the war, have a very childish attitude to real life.

Crooked Jack

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I know, it's outrageous isn't it? One part of an island wants independence, another part doesn't and the solution adopted is to fiendishly let them both go their separate ways.

no, the vast majority of a country wants independence and the solution is to fiendishly partition that country at yhe behest of a small minorty. worked out great so far hasnt it

tdv123

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

We were already part of the empire long before the plantation of Ulster.

And the plantations were made to preserve British rule in Ireland.

Don't get me wrong my grandmother is British. I actually lived in London for a few years. But your speaking as if Britain has never done any wrong. When many British politicians themselves have admitted to Britain's atrocities in Ireland.


Closer to the topic tho I still don't believe without the provisionals campaign that nationalists in the North would have the rights they have now. And again my main concern is not a United Ireland but equal rights & opportunity for everyone on the island & to build closer relationships with Unionists.

Chips Lovell

tdv123 wrote: »

But your speaking as if Britain has never done any wrong. When many British politicians themselves have admitted to Britain's atrocities in Ireland.

I'm not. Can't you understand that condemning IRA terrorism and thugs like Adams doesn't mean you support automatically support either loyalist terrorism or British misrule?

COYW

Happyman42 wrote: »

You mean 'Until they are answered the way they want, which is absolutely wrong, if they know something they should spit it out or shut up'

??? The question hasn't been answered wrongly. It hasn't been answered full stop. The answer to the question is 'Yes' or 'No'. Can I ask you for one good reason why he cannot answer the question, properly?

The truth always outs and this will be answered one way or another. Surely, you must agree that he would be better off addressing it fully on his terms i.e. Yes, I was or no I was not? Also, the damage it may cause in NI is not an acceptable reason for not answering it. Truths cannot be hidden in this country because it may cause problems in that part of the UK. We have suffered too much as a people from sweeping tough questions under the proverbial carpet.

Personally, I believe that leaving it unanswered suits SF, as it takes the glare aware from their countless shortcomings as a political party.

tdv123

Crooked Jack wrote: »

no, the vast majority of a country wants independence and the solution is to fiendishly partition that country at yhe behest of a small minorty. worked out great so far hasnt it

Lol I know right. It's like saying the Confederates should have been allowed to go their own way & keep slavery.

tdv123

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I'm not. Can't you understand that condemning IRA terrorism and thugs like Adams doesn't mean you support automatically support either loyalist terrorism or British misrule?

I can understand it yes. But can you not understand that a lot of people didn't see the IRA as the bad guys in the conflict & not everybody thinks of Adams as a thug?

tdv123

COYW wrote: »

??? The question hasn't been answered wrongly. It hasn't been answered full stop. The answer to the question is 'Yes' or 'No'. Can I ask you for one good reason why he cannot answer the question, properly?

The truth always outs and this will be answered one way or another. Surely, you must agree that he would be better off addressing it fully on his terms i.e. Yes, I was or no I was not? Also, the damage it may cause in NI is not an acceptable reason for not answering it. Truths cannot be hidden in this country because it may cause problems in that part of the UK. We have suffered too much as a people from sweeping tough questions under the proverbial carpet.

Personally, I believe that leaving it unanswered suits SF, as it takes the glare aware from their countless shortcomings as a political party.

Do you think if admitted he was in it (which we all know he was) would gain him more respect for telling the truth or less respect & less votes?

Happyman42

COYW wrote: »

??? The question hasn't been answered wrongly. It hasn't been answered full stop. The answer to the question is 'Yes' or 'No'. Can I ask you for one good reason why he cannot answer the question, properly?

The truth always outs and this will be answered one way or another. Surely, you must agree that he would be better off addressing it fully on his terms i.e. Yes, I was or no I was not? Also, the damage it may cause in NI is not an acceptable reason for not answering it. Truths cannot be hidden in this country because it may cause problems in that part of the UK. We have suffered too much as a people from sweeping tough questions under the proverbial carpet.

Personally, I believe that leaving it unanswered suits SF, as it takes the glare aware from their countless shortcomings as a political party.

He has repeatedly said 'He is not and was not in the IRA'
If you don't believe him then get this 'truth' and present it, the onus is on you. Not hearsay from those with an agenda...proof. You know the stuff that the British put many many people in jail for membership with...proof.

Chips Lovell

tdv123 wrote: »

I can understand it yes. But can you not understand that a lot of people didn't see the IRA as the bad guys in the conflict & not everybody thinks of Adams as a thug?

It's the belief that there are "bad guys" and "good guys" that perpetuates it. There are loyalists who make the exact same arguments as IRA supporters. The fact that neither side does this without a hint of irony is bewildering.

tdv123

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Duk...205756301.html

Fair play to him. Very nice gesture indeed.

tdv123

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

It's the belief that there are "bad guys" and "good guys" that perpetuates it. There are loyalists who make the exact same arguments as IRA supporters. The fact that neither side does this without a hint of irony is bewildering.

That's a good point. But the fact is there is people who see it as "bad guys" vs "good guys" unfortunately.

tdv123

Happyman42 wrote: »

He has repeatedly said 'He is not and was not in the IRA'
If you don't believe him then get this 'truth' and present it, the onus is on you. Not hearsay from those with an agenda...proof. You know the stuff that the British put many many people in jail for membership with...proof.

I like Adams myself but come on, the guy was in the IRA. Former activists like Brendan Hughes who I don't believe have any agenda against Adams admitted he was the main man to go. Sean MacStafoain former member of the council as well admitted Adams was one of the main men & Mac would have more know about the IRA than a lot of other members. And countless other former members.

Happyman42

tdv123 wrote: »

I like Adams myself but come on, the guy was in the IRA. Former activists like Brendan Hughes who I don't believe have any agenda against Adams admitted he was the main man to go. Sean MacStafoain former member of the council as well admitted Adams was one of the main men & Mac would have more know about the IRA than a lot of other members. And countless other former members.

Personally, I don't care wheter he was in it or not. What I do care about is the countless minutes of time needed to air the real issues of the peace process that is being taken up for this insanity. If they 'know' he is lying they have to prove it, or else shut up about until such time as this 'truth' COWY is on about comes out.

3/4 of an hour was taken up at prime time by the continued insanity and what did we find out? Nothing we didn't know already.

tdv123

Happyman42 wrote: »

Personally, I don't care wheter he was in it or not. What I do care about is the countless minutes of time needed to air the real issues of the peace process that is being taken up for this insanity. If they 'know' he is lying they have to prove it, or else shut up about until such time as this 'truth' COWY is on about comes out.

3/4 of an hour was taken up at prime time by the continued insanity and what did we find out? Nothing we didn't know already.

I agree with that it's a pointless question alright that nobody benefits from.

bobbysands81

tdv123 wrote: »

I agree with that it's a pointless question alright that nobody benefits from.

Who in RTÉ actually came up with the format for this episode of Prime Time and what was their motivation?

It's not a new story, it's been done to death countless times and nothing new came of it. It was pointless.

I wonder was this an attempt to sling mud at Sinn Féin given recent strong showings in opinion polls.

tdv123

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Who in RTÉ actually came up with the format for this episode of Prime Time and what was their motivation?

It's not a new story, it's been done to death countless times and nothing new came of it. It was pointless.

I wonder was this an attempt to sling mud at Sinn Féin given recent strong showings in opinion polls.

Probably this.

The format of the "interview" was basically Miram asking the same question over & over again just using different victims names.


It really gets on my nerves how everyone goes on about the loss of life on both sides up the North but nobody seems to be doing anything for the victims families of Dublin & Monaghan bombings. There's a generation who know little or nothing about this yet it was the biggest massacre of the troubles.

.jacksparrow.

tdv123 wrote: »

I like Adams myself but come on, the guy was in the IRA. Former activists like Brendan Hughes who I don't believe have any agenda against Adams admitted he was the main man to go. Sean MacStafoain former member of the council as well admitted Adams was one of the main men & Mac would have more know about the IRA than a lot of other members. And countless other former members.

Actually that's not true Brendan Hughes despised Adams, towards the end of his life, because he said Adams sold out with the GFA.

He hated him so much that Adams tried to carry his coffin, but was told in polite terms, to go away.

SoulandForm

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Actually that's not true Brendan Hughes despised Adams, towards the end of his life, because he said Adams sold out with the GFA.

He hated him so much that Adams tried to carry his coffin, but was told in polite terms, to go away.

No Adams wasnt told to go away- but Brendan's brother said that he should have told him to go away.

Happyman42

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Actually that's not true Brendan Hughes despised Adams, towards the end of his life, because he said Adams sold out with the GFA.

He hated him so much that Adams tried to carry his coffin, but was told in polite terms, to go away.

When you live in a border community you don't have to look too hard to see that there is tremendous bitterness over the signing of the GFA in republican ranks, I have seen families torn apart by it and lifelong friendships broken. I have absolutely no doubt that there are those 'biding their time' 'waiting in the wings' to see if there is movement towards the goal that was never given up on....a UI. The next few years will be interesting and crucial. Remember, Adams and McG can only speak for their supporters, if they lose that support all deals are off, and that is a very scary prospect as a resumption of the conflict will not be pretty this time.
That is not a threat (I don't have any involvement or influence) it is a simple assessment. Adams and McG have done an incredible job so far to maintain support and agreement, any release of information that sees men go to jail (like the Boston tapes or Adams saying what he knows) would mean this fragile agreement would crumble over night.
Everybody had to swallow hard...everybody, to get this deal done. If you want to see the deal remain then everybody has to put stuff behind them. That is the sad reality. And that includes the families and wives of southern security forces killed in action. It is that simple, you either want the peace or you don't.
Miriam O'Callaghan's attempt to make a pitiful name for herself is pathetic and pointless in relation to the real problems with the 'process'

R P McMurphy

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

And we organised the Irish Volunteers...

Neither of which changes the fact that majority of people in Northern Ireland didn't want to leave the UK. Forcing them into Ireland would have been the antithesis of democracy.

Going by that logic there should have been about a two and a half county northern ireland as the nationalist majorities in the other counties should have been in the republic. These areas were forced to remain within the uk. Is this also not the antithesis of democracy

old hippy

tdv123 wrote: »

Probably this.

The format of the "interview" was basically Miram asking the same question over & over again just using different victims names.


It really gets on my nerves how everyone goes on about the loss of life on both sides up the North but nobody seems to be doing anything for the victims families of Dublin & Monaghan bombings. There's a generation who know little or nothing about this yet it was the biggest massacre of the troubles.

Good point. I was initially shocked at how few people over here in London know about these events. Even Bloody Sunday, despite it cropping up in the news fairly regularly gets blank responses from some

Not that we should wear our tragic past for all to see but a bit of knowledge doesn't do any harm.

SoulandForm

Happyman42 wrote: »

When you live in a border community you don't have to look too hard to see that there is tremendous bitterness over the signing of the GFA in republican ranks, I have seen families torn apart by it and lifelong friendships broken. I have absolutely no doubt that there are those 'biding their time' 'waiting in the wings' to see if there is movement towards the goal that was never given up on....a UI. The next few years will be interesting and crucial. Remember, Adams and McG can only speak for their supporters, if they lose that support all deals are off, and that is a very scary prospect as a resumption of the conflict will not be pretty this time.
That is not a threat (I don't have any involvement or influence) it is a simple assessment. Adams and McG have done an incredible job so far to maintain support and agreement, any release of information that sees men go to jail (like the Boston tapes or Adams saying what he knows) would mean this fragile agreement would crumble over night.
Everybody had to swallow hard...everybody, to get this deal done. If you want to see the deal remain then everybody has to put stuff behind them. That is the sad reality. And that includes the families and wives of southern security forces killed in action. It is that simple, you either want the peace or you don't.
Miriam O'Callaghan's attempt to make a pitiful name for herself is pathetic and pointless in relation to the real problems with the 'process'

This PSF scare tactics...Either you accept the GFA and Gerry's leadership or want the troubles back. Its a false choice.

If you dont oppose the GFA you are not an Irish Republican but that does not necessarily mean at all that you want the troubles back or even that you cant be a complete pacifist.

padd b1975

Happyman42 wrote: »

When you live in a border community you don't have to look too hard to see that there is tremendous bitterness over the signing of the GFA in republican ranks, I have seen families torn apart by it and lifelong friendships broken. I have absolutely no doubt that there are those 'biding their time' 'waiting in the wings' to see if there is movement towards the goal that was never given up on....a UI. The next few years will be interesting and crucial. Remember, Adams and McG can only speak for their supporters, if they lose that support all deals are off, and that is a very scary prospect as a resumption of the conflict will not be pretty this time.
That is not a threat (I don't have any involvement or influence) it is a simple assessment. Adams and McG have done an incredible job so far to maintain support and agreement, any release of information that sees men go to jail (like the Boston tapes or Adams saying what he knows) would mean this fragile agreement would crumble over night.
Everybody had to swallow hard...everybody, to get this deal done. If you want to see the deal remain then everybody has to put stuff behind them. That is the sad reality. And that includes the families and wives of southern security forces killed in action. It is that simple, you either want the peace or you don't.
Miriam O'Callaghan's attempt to make a pitiful name for herself is pathetic and pointless in relation to the real problems with the 'process'

In other words...

"They haven't gone away you know"

RandomName2

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Going by that logic there should have been about a two and a half county northern ireland as the nationalist majorities in the other counties should have been in the republic. These areas were forced to remain within the uk. Is this also not the antithesis of democracy

Actually a four county Northern Ireland.

But the Unionists felt that they had sacrificed the whole of Ireland being in the union (and their tiny southern unionist rump)... followed by Monaghan and Donegal (with their significant Protestant minorities) so were unwilling to consider being whittled down to just four counties. Particularly since a country that size could possibly be non-viable, not least the fact that it wouldn't even surround Lough Neagh.

Fair? Not really. Ever heard of the dictatorship of the majority? It's the essence of democracy, and the reason why unionists feared Home Rule so much; because it ain't fun to be in a minority in a democracy.

Happyman42

padd b1975 wrote: »

In other words...

"They haven't gone away you know"

What made you think they had? The media? They went away as part of a deal, if the deal fails....

padd b1975

Happyman42 wrote: »

What made you think they had? The media? They went away as part of a deal, if the deal fails....

Never thought they had for one second.

Happyman42

padd b1975 wrote: »

Never thought they had for one second.

We'll have the same high ground moralisers on here telling us 'we knew it, we knew it' if the deal is scuppered. It's quite clear to me that the IRA said that their cessation was based on the GFA making possible, 'peaceful means' to secure a UI. Of course the media and governments spouted on that this was the IRA gone forever. I don't think that is what they were saying at all. The deal is the thing keeping the peace.
It's probably at it's most fragile now, and the release and improper use of the Boston tapes will possibly do terminal damage. Scary times for us all.

R P McMurphy

RandomName2 wrote: »

Actually a four county Northern Ireland.

But the Unionists felt that they had sacrificed the whole of Ireland being in the union (and their tiny southern unionist rump)... followed by Monaghan and Donegal (with their significant Protestant minorities) so were unwilling to consider being whittled down to just four counties. Particularly since a country that size could possibly be non-viable, not least the fact that it wouldn't even surround Lough Neagh.

Fair? Not really. Ever heard of the dictatorship of the majority? It's the essence of democracy, and the reason why unionists feared Home Rule so much; because it ain't fun to be in a minority in a democracy.

Would be a hell of a lot less than four, be lucky to get two full counties at the period of partition with clear unionist majorities http://www.lancs.ac.uk/troubledgeogs/map_series.htm