Gerry Adams on RTE PrimeTime--29-05-13

tdv123

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

And we organised the Irish Volunteers...

Neither of which changes the fact that majority of people in Northern Ireland didn't want to leave the UK. Forcing them into Ireland would have been the antithesis of democracy.

Only because Northern Ireland was gerrymandered the better for Britain to rule it. The Irish Volunteers were actually ready to help the British defend Home Rule. They were set-up as a counter terrorist organization.



Theirs minority's in every part of the first world who aren't happy with some elements of their country but don't take up arms & threaten their leaders unless in sever circumstances.

My main problem isn't with N.Ireland being dived from the rest of the Island. My problem is the way nationalists were treated in their country own as second class citizens for decades. And without the provos I don't think they would have got some of the rights that they did.

Answer me this please. Do you think a states slogan that is "a protestant state for protestant people" was right? If everyone in N.Ireland had the same equal basic rights & opportunities from the start there would not have been all the blood shed that followed. Do you not agree?

The Queen of England

Nardie nardie nardie narh.

tdv123

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

What?

I think he means you actually are defending loyalist paramilitaries.

Busted Flat.

The Queen of England wrote: »

Nardie nardie nardie narh.

I have seen some posts, that were joking, abusive and just taking the pi$$, where does this one go.

Chips Lovell

tdv123 wrote: »

I think he means you actually are defending loyalist paramilitaries.

I'm lost as to how he got that idea.

The Queen of England

Busted Flat. wrote: »

I have seen some posts, that were joking, abusive and just taking the pi$$, where does this one go.

That was my Gerry Adams impersonation.

Chips Lovell

tdv123 wrote: »

Answer me this please. Do you think a states slogan that is "a protestant state for protestant people" was right? If everyone in N.Ireland had the same equal basic rights & opportunities from the start there would not have been all the blood shed that followed. Do you not agree?

Of course it wasn't right. But even if there had been equality between communities, you probably would have still had bloodshed because of people like the Provos who for decades would not accept anything less than unification with Ireland and loyalists bent on the opposite.

tdv123

delthedriver wrote: »

Now I am really confused. Firstly you suggested a splinter group, later a breakaway group and now you don't know for sure that it was a break away group.................???

Well if I knew every crime committed in Ireland I'd make one bloody good detective now wouldn't I?

It could have been either of the three, the point was it wasn't the same organization who was involved in the troubles & the way it was planned would suggest it wasn't former members of that organization either.

Banjo String

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Oh that makes it alright then.

You'll no doubt be condemning the Americans and Brits for their roles in Iraq/Afghanistan etc so?

delthedriver wrote: »

A splinter group? So that is acceptable?
It was still IRA! They murdered innocent people.

Lol, a splinter group who splintered from the IRA?

Not sure if acting dumb......

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

And we organised the Irish Volunteers...

Neither of which changes the fact that majority of people in Northern Ireland didn't want to leave the UK. Forcing them into Ireland would have been the antithesis of democracy.

Do you think Israel belongs to the Israelis VK, bearing in mind its a manufactured state, post ww2?

you're a big lad, sure you've even been defending bankers pay on these boards.

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas, you should know that at this stage.

Busted Flat.

The Queen of England wrote: »

That was my Gerry Adams impersonation.

IMO, you have embarrassed yourself, and shown your age.

Happyman42

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Of course it wasn't right. But even if there had been equality between communities, you probably would have still had bloodshed because of people like the Provos who for decades would not accept anything less than unification with Ireland and loyalists bent on the opposite.

They wouldn't be looking down the barrel of unification had they had manners and hadn't allowed their state to fail. The IRA would never have had the support they did had Unionism/Loyalism been decent democrats.
They still haven't learned what that word 'democrats' means. But it will mean that they will eventually lose the comfy bed that THEY shat in.

tdv123

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Of course it wasn't right. But even if there had been equality between communities, you probably would have still had bloodshed because of people like the Provos who for decades would not accept anything less than unification with Ireland and loyalists bent on the opposite.

But none of this would have happened had Britain not gerrymandered the country for themselves in the first place.

Again my mother & grandparents lived in N.Ireland threw out the mid 60's to late 70's & it was horrible for them. They felt under attack from the government & later the army & felt like the Provos were the only ones protecting them. A lot of people who joined the provos in normal circumstances do things they don't do in normal situations & life in N.Ireland in 60's for a nationalist was far from normal. A lot of them were fighting for basic rights, not all were fighting for reunification.

Chips Lovell

In fairness, both sides had a lot to learn about what democracy is. But they're getting a bit better about that now and learning to co-exist. I don't know what you mean about staring down the barrel of unification. Support for staying in the UK remains very strong.

Chips Lovell

tdv123 wrote: »

But none of this would have happened had Britain not gerrymandered the country for themselves in the first place.

Gerrymandered? There was a solid unionist majority in the North. You can't deny that.

Busted Flat.

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Gerrymandered? There was a solid unionist majority in the North. You can't deny that.

Happyman42

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

In fairness, both sides had a lot to learn about what democracy is. But they're getting a bit better about that now and learning to co-exist. I don't know what you mean about staring down the barrel of unification. Support for staying in the UK remains very strong.

Why would a nationalist living in Derry in the 40's and 50's bother learning about democracy...he/she couldn't take part in excercising his/her democratic rights?

Chips Lovell

And they can now since people have finally copped on that murdering each other doesn't achieve anything.

Busted Flat.

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

And they can now since people have finally copped on that murdering each other doesn't achieve anything.

:rolleyes:

tdv123

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Gerrymandered? There was a solid unionist majority in the North. You can't deny that.

There was a strong unionist majority before the plantations?

Happyman42

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

And they can now since people have finally copped on that murdering each other doesn't achieve anything.

The 'flag' protests show us what Unionism/Loyalism STILL thinks of 'democracy'.

Chips Lovell

tdv123 wrote: »

There was a strong unionist majority before the plantations?

Really? You're going back to the plantations? Those people have lived there for hundreds of years. Sure while we're at it, lets start righting the demographic changes wrought by the Viking invasions.

Chips Lovell

Happyman42 wrote: »

The 'flag' protests show us what Unionism/Loyalism STILL thinks of 'democracy'.

Indeed, and we've had a bit of nationalist rioting too, not to mention dissident violence. There are still nutters on both sides.

tdv123

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Really? You're going back to the plantations? Those people have lived there for hundreds of years. Sure while we're at it, lets start righting the demographic changes wrought by the Viking invasions.

Yes they've lived in Ireland for hundreds of years, why was it right for Ireland to join the empire for these minorities

Chips Lovell

We left the empire, remember. They didn't want to leave.

COYW

Happyman42 wrote: »

Why would a nationalist living in Derry in the 40's and 50's bother learning about democracy...he/she couldn't take part in excercising his/her democratic rights?

Rubbish! Many natives of that city, who grew up during "the troubles", went on to become successful without turning into terrorists, as did countless others in NI.

Also, RTE are totally within their rights to ask such questions of Adams and his cohorts until they are answered. I always thought that SF were all about openness and honesty?

tdv123

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

We left the empire, remember. They didn't want to leave.

That's not what I asked. Why was it right for us to join the empire in the first place to suit minorities?

Happyman42

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Indeed, and we've had a bit of nationalist rioting too, not to mention dissident violence. There are still nutters on both sides.

The problem is, the Unionists nutters are in power, the ones that sanctioned the leaflets that blew the thing out of the water. Unfortunately we will see more of it as things normalise. They haven't a clue about what normal is they have been antidemocratic for so long.

Chips Lovell

tdv123 wrote: »

That's not what I asked. Why was it right for us to join the empire in the first place to suit minorities?

We were already part of the empire long before the plantation of Ulster.

Crooked Jack

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Actually, it was a separate entity in the union since 1920.

Do you think the majority in Northern Ireland in 1922 wanted to join the Irish state? Do you think it would have been democracy if they'd been forced to do so.

so you ignore a national vote, cordon off a section of the country with an artificial majority that happens to be in your favour and then ask them again on an issue that affects the entire nation. you have a perverse and frankly terrifying view of what constitutes democracy.

Happyman42

COYW wrote: »

Rubbish! Many natives of that city, who grew up during "the troubles", went on to become successful without turning into terrorists, as did countless others in NI.

Don't get us started on how far a nationalist or catholic could go on the employment ladder or in education.

Also, RTE are totally within their rights to ask such questions of Adams and his cohorts until they are answered. I always thought that SF were all about openness and honesty?

You mean 'Until they are answered the way they want, which is absolutely wrong, if they know something they should spit it out or shut up'