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The sex myth

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    #62
    Henlars67
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Henlars67


    Rosy Posy wrote: »
    This attitude makes my blood boil. It is precisely this line of thinking that creates a rape culture in our society that manifests in teenage rapists posting photos of their crimes on Facebook, and rape victims taking their own lives because of the stigma attached to them.

    How about this for a sex myth- the myth of the rapist hiding down an alley with a knife. Most rapists are known to their victims. Sexual assault does not have to be violent. Having sex with someone who is unconcious or too drunk to give consent is rape. Just because someone has slept with you before or has consented at an earlier time does not give you carte blanche to have sex with them again without obtaining their consent.

    The reason that rape and sexual assault is so shockingly underreported is because of the societal attitude that casts aspersions on the victim, as well as the social stigma that comes attached, which filters down through the system to result in the abysmally low conviction rate for rapists.

    Like another poster here, I find the one in four statistic low. I would have put it closer to three in four, especially if you take war zones into account. What makes you so sure of yourself as to presume to question the statistic? Most rape survivors don't advertise the fact. Many will only share their story with a handful of trusted confidants. Many more will tell no one. Due in part to having to come up against the kind of attitude displayed by you. Fwiw, I don't think you are a rapist, misogynist or monster, merely a product of our society. I hope that you can be open enough to do a little research in this area, adjust your attitude, then try to change someone else's.


    what attitude? said that I find it absurdly high, if it's accurate then it's absolutely shocking, that is why I question it.

    I didn't state it as a fact.

    cheers for the reply though.

    It's much better than any reply I've gotten when I previously asked it.


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    #63
    --Kaiser--
    Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    I think trivialising sexual assault is rape culture.

    Exactly what can be done to my body against my will before you'd consider it sexual assault?

    You are the one trivialising sexual assault by saying that a pinch in the ass qualifies. I think it's an insult to woman who have been sexually assaulted.

    I've been groped, had my ass pinched and slapped by women, I've had all the buttons ripped off my shirt by a hen party. Would you say that hen nights are part of a rape culture? Or that they are just drunk, rowdy women being idiots?


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    #64
    IM0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭IM0


    saying 1 in 4 means precisely fuck all if you dont say where the sample data was taken. for example, taking it during a war somewhere in a third world country = very high number no doubt, taking your data in the middle of dublin will probably show something else, and like wise somewhere in India probably different again.

    stats like this are pretty much useless, and are only collected to further an ajenda :rolleyes:

    the ajenda being if it can be 'shown' by stats that sexual assault is so high, then the people making the stats [the organisations which have a part to play in 'fixing' the 'victims'] use this to lobby for more funding to keep themselves in a job and getting funding. apply the same logic to most chariatible 'NGO's too.


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    #65
    IM0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭IM0


    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    I think trivialising sexual assault is rape culture.

    Exactly what can be done to my body against my will before you'd consider it sexual assault?

    nothing after you say no, simple.


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    #66
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,437 ✭✭✭tritium


    Rosy Posy wrote: »
    This attitude makes my blood boil. It is precisely this line of thinking that creates a rape culture in our society that manifests in teenage rapists posting photos of their crimes on Facebook, and rape victims taking their own lives because of the stigma attached to them.

    How about this for a sex myth- the myth of the rapist hiding down an alley with a knife. Most rapists are known to their victims. Sexual assault does not have to be violent. Having sex with someone who is unconcious or too drunk to give consent is rape. Just because someone has slept with you before or has consented at an earlier time does not give you carte blanche to have sex with them again without obtaining their consent.

    The reason that rape and sexual assault is so shockingly underreported is because of the societal attitude that casts aspersions on the victim, as well as the social stigma that comes attached, which filters down through the system to result in the abysmally low conviction rate for rapists.

    Like another poster here, I find the one in four statistic low. I would have put it closer to three in four, especially if you take war zones into account. What makes you so sure of yourself as to presume to question the statistic? Most rape survivors don't advertise the fact. Many will only share their story with a handful of trusted confidants. Many more will tell no one. Due in part to having to come up against the kind of attitude displayed by you. Fwiw, I don't think you are a rapist, misogynist or monster, merely a product of our society. I hope that you can be open enough to do a little research in this area, adjust your attitude, then try to change someone else's.

    Wow, where to start. Maybe by pointing out the irony of attacking a poster with a stream of unsubstantiated assertions and then suggesting they do some research. Tell us, why do you think your three in four assertion has any more credibility then the less than one in four the poster implied?

    I don't mean this as a dig at you, but the biggest problem in debating issues like this is everyone want their opinion to be fact, and shouts down any dissent. The reality is there are complex reasons for the type of society we have today, and to simplistically throw out terms like rape culture goes nowhere to understanding them!


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    #67
    Henlars67
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Henlars67


    I was in a pub once where a hen party had scorecards and would hold up a rating for each man who walked passed their table, which was every man in the pub at some stage as they were next the toilets.

    Most men got groped or had their arse slapped.

    I suppose most people would class it as innocent fun but imagine it was a group of lads on a stag night doing the same to every woman who passed by.


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    #68
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    Henlars67 wrote: »
    sexually assaulted
    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    sexually assaulted
    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    groped on the street and in crowds, to give you the 'softest' examples
    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    everything from unwelcome gropings to rape.
    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    I was groped at the age of 14 by two grown men in a crowd at a concert. I was groped on the stree at the age of 30 by a teenager who ran up behind me and assaulted me.
    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    slap on the ass
    smash wrote: »
    a pinch on the ass is 'rape culture'?

    I'd say the guys trying to reduce sexual assault down to a pinch on the ass are trivialising rape culture.

    And a pinch on the ass does indeed qualify, no one has any business laying their hands on another's body in a sexual manner without their consent.
    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    You are the one trivialising sexual assault by saying that a pinch in the ass qualifies. I think it's an insult to woman who have been sexually assaulted.

    I've already said that I've been sexually assaulted several times. Am I insulting myself? Frankly, it doesn't matter what you think.
    I've been groped, had my ass pinched and slapped by women, I've had all the buttons ripped off my shirt by a hen party. Would you say that hen nights are part of a rape culture?

    That kind of behaviour is, yes. I'm as disgusted by that kind of behaviour from women as from men.
    Or that they are just drunk, rowdy women being idiots?

    If a bunch of men grope me, pinch and slap my bum and rip the buttons off my clothes against my will and without my consent, are they just drunk rowdy men being idiots?

    I guess that answers my earlier question of what should be allowed to be done to me before it's considered sexual assault. Thankfully, the law takes my view and not yours.


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    #69
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    IM0 wrote: »
    nothing after you say no, simple.

    But everything that happens before I say no is fair game?


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    #70
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    You are the one trivialising sexual assault by saying that a pinch in the ass qualifies. I think it's an insult to woman who have been sexually assaulted.

    Couldn't have put it any better than this.


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    #71
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    Indeed, I bet you couldn't.


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    #72
    IM0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭IM0


    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    But everything that happens before I say no is fair game?

    well by definition, and adding a pinch of troll


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    #73
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    Indeed, I bet you couldn't.

    Because it makes perfect sense. You are aligning a pinch on the arse with actual rape.


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    #74
    IM0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭IM0


    smash wrote: »
    Because it makes perfect sense. You are aligning a pinch on the arse with actual rape.

    which is in.fuckin.credible and actually disgusting


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    #75
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    smash wrote: »
    Because it makes perfect sense. You are aligning a pinch on the arse with actual rape.

    No, I'm very clearly aligning sexual assault with sexual assault. You're reducing sexual assault down to 'a pinch on the arse'.


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    #76
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    No, I'm very clearly aligning sexual assault with sexual assault. You're reducing sexual assault down to 'a pinch on the arse'.

    Tell a rape victim that you got sexually assaulted and then qualify it with "A guy slapped my ass" and see how much sympathy you get. Actually, say it to anyone at all and see how much sympathy you get... :rolleyes:


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    #77
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Three Seasons wrote: »
    Who says I agree with everything she says???


    I never said you did?

    You asked-
    Three Seasons wrote: »
    She's highly accomplished in numerous disciplines. What reason do you have to doubt her scientific competence other than her choice of swear words?


    I was merely answering your question.


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    #78
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    smash wrote: »
    Tell a rape victim that you got sexually assaulted and then qualify it with "A guy slapped my ass" and see how much sympathy you get. Actually, say it to anyone at all and see how much sympathy you get... :rolleyes:


    I am a rape victim. And I'm sick to death of men telling me what violations of my bodily integrity I should be putting up with.


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    #79
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    I'd say the guys trying to reduce sexual assault down to a pinch on the ass are trivialising rape culture.

    And a pinch on the ass does indeed qualify, no one has any business laying their hands on another's body in a sexual manner without their consent.

    Shít. I came to work quite happy go lucky this morning, but that was before i realised i'd been the victim of repeated sexual assaults over the last 2 decades.:confused:

    There is a very definite distinction between rowdy behaviour and sexual assault - Stevie Wonder can see that. Most people can distinguish between the two and don't overstep the mark, some sickos unfortunately do. But to compare a cheeky pinch on the bum with dragging some poor girl down a lane is patently ridiculous and, as has been noted already, is insulting to those unfortunate enough to have suffered an actual assault


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    #80
    flutterflye
    Registered Users Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    What is sexual assault though?
    I'm not talking about the obvious, more that line where it may or may not be.
    If I was out and a guy started feeling me up and slapping my ass etc... I would consider that just some drunk gobsh1te acting like a d1ck, and I'd just move away from him.
    But if he did the exact same thing to another girl, she may feel that to be sexual assault.
    Does your subjective perspective make it sexual assault?
    Same for harassment in the workplace etc...

    Oh and I know far too many girls who have been raped, so I fully believe that statistic of 1 in 4, if not more.


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    #81
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    I am a rape victim. And I'm sick to death of men telling me what violations of my bodily integrity I should be putting up with.

    I don't believe anyone has told you what to put up with. I also think your experience of being raped has skewed your views of what most would consider trivial things such as a slap on the ass, as one does not lead to the other. Then again, I might as well talk to a wall because I'm a man and clearly you've discounted our views.

    Anyway, a fun thread derailed and now getting heated so I'm out.


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    #82
    Three Seasons
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Three Seasons


    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    I am a rape victim. And I'm sick to death of men telling me what violations of my bodily integrity I should be putting up with.


    Who has said you should put up with a slap on the ass? The simple point being made is its not even anywhere close to rape to put it mildly.


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    #83
    wandatowell
    Registered Users Posts: 8,435 ✭✭✭wandatowell


    WTF is it about men who think they can just go and slap a womens ass??? I've commented on this before and it pisses me off.

    If some guy slapped the future Mrs. Towells ass I'd have ZERO issue pulling him up on his behaviour.


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    #84
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    I am a rape victim. And I'm sick to death of men telling me what violations of my bodily integrity I should be putting up with.

    I'm really sorry to hear that. It's completely understandable so why you wouldn't see the funny side of a pinch on the bum or so on. People who haven't been in your position might see it differently though.


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    #85
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    Three Seasons wrote: »
    Who has said you should put up with a slap on the ass? The simple point being made is its not even anywhere close to rape to put it mildly.

    Which is why I (repeatedly) called it sexual assault. It was smash who tried to put words in my mouth by saying that I aligned it with rape.


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    #86
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    I'm really sorry to hear that. It's completely understandable so why you wouldn't see the funny side of a pinch on the bum or so on. People who haven't been in your position might see it differently though.

    Yep, which is why it's best to err on the side of caution and not touch strangers.


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    #87
    Uriel.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    Which is why I (repeatedly) called it sexual assault. It was smash who tried to put words in my mouth by saying that I aligned it with rape.

    If I slapped you in the face would that be sexual assault?

    What about the chest?


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    #88
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    wandatowell wrote: »
    WTF is it about men who think they can just go and slap a womens ass??? I've commented on this before and it pisses me off.

    You could say the same about women who do it to men. They're just idiots, and gender isn't a factor in their idiocy.


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    #89
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    Uriel. wrote: »
    If I slapped you in the face would that be sexual assault?

    What about the chest?

    No, that's assault. Do you really need this explained to you?


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    #90
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,437 ✭✭✭tritium


    wandatowell wrote: »
    WTF is it about men who think they can just go and slap a womens ass??? I've commented on this before and it pisses me off.

    If some guy slapped the future Mrs. Towells ass I'd have ZERO issue pulling him up on his behaviour.

    I'm assuming you'd be equally quick to pull up any woman who slapped one of your male friends on the ass?


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    #91
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    Which is why I (repeatedly) called it sexual assault. It was smash who tried to put words in my mouth by saying that I aligned it with rape.
    Lingua Franca wrote:
    I'd say the guys trying to reduce sexual assault down to a pinch on the ass are trivialising rape culture.

    Clearly you did... Rape Culture!


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