The sex myth

Uriel.

bluewolf wrote: »

I was agreeing with you and being sarcastic...

I was also being sarcastic too. I just didn't do as good a job :P

suicide_circus

Uriel. wrote: »

well you said there was a time that a slap on the ass was acceptable and then threw it in with suicide?

Can you explain your view clearer, I just don't see the point behind it - I am not mocking you (yet). Chill.

i admit i went off on a tangent. I'm saying that changing attitudes to what is acceptable coupled with pressure to be a man, a concept with fluctuating parameters, leads to confusion which may lead to increased risk.of suicide.

IM0

so in essence rape is a myth

Trudiha

suicide_circus wrote: »

if someone is raped, 100% of the blame goes to the perpetrator but to deny that by taking certain precautions, a woman can reduce her chances of being raped is silly and irresponsible. its not rape culture, its common sense culture.

These 'precautions' you talk about, dressing like a nun, not going out alone at night, never having a drink, never talking to men who aren't part of your family are all practised by some women in some Muslim countries. Rape still happens in those countries.

It's not silly or irresponsible to think that the lives of all women shouldn't be curtailed because a minority of men are rapists, however, suggesting that they should, is blaming the victim.

B0jangles

Three Seasons wrote: »

People are raped and assaulted by strangers, it does happen, there a places I most definitely would not walk through at not as the risk increases of being assaulted. Who said anything about not wearing heels or revealing clothes, that's a narrative in your own head.

Those are some of the commonest suggestions made to women by helpful people like yourself on how we can avoid being raped.

Three Seasons wrote: »

One could say by "not teaching" the manufacturers of electrical components not to make faulty components, this is contributing to "electrocution culture" . The emphasis on advising people how to behave around electrical components is "victim blaming" as they are the victim of shoddy workmanship.

You are equating rapists with electricity; that is insane.

Uriel.

suicide_circus wrote: »

i admit i went off on a tangent. I'm saying that changing attitudes to what is acceptable coupled with pressure to be a man, a concept with fluctuating parameters, leads to confusion which may lead to increased risk.of suicide.

That's a whole other thread to be honest.

But I would have thought that changing attitudes are going in the right direction. Would it not have been the case that 50 years ago (or even 20) it was man up and get on with things, be a real man etc... or more likely, don't show "negative" emotion? Whereas now, although very slowly, attitudes are changing or at least there's a greater awareness to "men's real feelings" and they being ok?

Lingua Franca

I can see that the answer to this post is "no, we can't."

Three Seasons

Trudiha wrote: »

No, to put the responsibility for a sexual assault on the victim is part of rape culture. Three Seasons, I'm going to assume that you're a normal man and like most normal men, have managed never to rape anyone. You've seen women in short skirts, bikinis, perhaps even less. I'm going to assume that you've seen drunk women, women who were asleep, maybe even women who've taken drugs. You've probably seen women alone at night. I'm assuming that despite all of that, you've managed not to rape anyone.

Why can't you see that not raping someone is normal behaviour and something that we should expect from all men in all circumstances?

When did I ever say I think rape is normal behaviour?

We shouldn't expect all men not to rape as there will always be some men who do, we shouldn't expect no one to Ron either, that's why we should lick our front doors.

There are people who will do horrible things, that's reality and it will never change.

Basing your actions and behaviours on a dream world is insane, actions and behaviours should be based on reality as it is. It would be fantastic if no one had to worry about being raped, murdered, assaulted, mugged etc . But that is not the work we live in.

Uriel.

Lingua Franca wrote: »

I can see that the answer to this post is "no, we can't."

58, 60, 69

tritium

Trudiha wrote: »

No, to put the responsibility for a sexual assault on the victim is part of rape culture. Three Seasons, I'm going to assume that you're a normal man and like most normal men, have managed never to rape anyone. You've seen women in short skirts, bikinis, perhaps even less. I'm going to assume that you've seen drunk women, women who were asleep, maybe even women who've taken drugs. You've probably seen women alone at night. I'm assuming that despite all of that, you've managed not to rape anyone.

Why can't you see that not raping someone is normal behaviour and something that we should expect from all men in all circumstances?

First off, giving someone skills and insight to protect themselves isn't rape culture, it's common sense- telling someone to be alert for speeding cars isn't the same as blaming them if they get knocked down by one!

You're second point is frankly patronising to men. I don't know a single man who would claim rape is acceptable. However there's a tendency from some quarters to use the word rape in utterly inappropriate, catch all contexts. You don't get to define something this serious to suit your agenda!

Lingua Franca

Uriel. wrote: »

58, 60, 69

Incorrect.

according to you...
A slap on the ass is sexual assault...leading to.... RAPE.

I've asked you to show where I said this. You cannot, because I didn't say it.

Uriel.

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Incorrect.



I've asked you to show where I said this. You cannot, because I didn't say it.

Incorrect. I did.
You don't have to say to say. implication. if the implication is wrong due to uncertainty or unclear posting then that's a different matter.

sbsquarepants

B0jangles wrote: »

Why does this always happen?

When someone talks about the relationship between unwanted sexual touching and rape culture they are told that saying such things is trivializing actual rape.
When the same person then says they themselves have been raped, then the dismissal switches to them being a damaged person who naturally has a skewed attitude to such matters.

It really is heads I win, tails you lose, isn't it?

I don't think so.
All experiences, good and bad change how we view any given situation. If someone was in a bad car crash they might view driving at 60mph as speeding, or if someone's house caught fire they may well view leaving the tv plugged in as dangerously reckless. Another person might do both these things without a seconds thought.
Surely that's self evident?
Any sexual violence or harrasment is disgusting, but i'm just not sure that a slap on the ass qualifies as either of those things - unless your view is skewed by something. If it was a repeated thing then yes definitely, but not as an attention grabber in a crowded pub or the likes.
Sleazy - Yes. Assault - No

IM0

Lingua Franca wrote: »

I can see that the answer to this post is "no, we can't."

be arsed

Uriel.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I don't think so.
All experiences, good and bad change how we view any given situation. If someone was in a bad car crash they might view driving at 60mph as speeding, or if someone's house caught fire they may well view leaving the tv plugged in as dangerously reckless. Another person might do both these things without a seconds thought.
Surely that's self evident?
Any sexual violence or harrasment is disgusting, but i'm just not sure that a slap on the ass qualifies as either of those things - unless your view is skewed by something. If it was a repeated thing then yes definitely, but not as an attention grabber in a crowded pub or the likes.
Sleazy - Yes. Assault - Yes. Sexual Assault - No (?)

FYP

IM0

Uriel. wrote: »

58, 60, 69

hut hut?

wandatowell

NiallSparky wrote: »

You could say the same about women who do it to men. They're just idiots, and gender isn't a factor in their idiocy.

Totally agree 110%, idiocy isn't gender specific. I only referenced women as I haven't experienced it the other way 'round

Lingua Franca

Uriel. wrote: »

Incorrect. I did.
You don't have to say to say. implication. if the implication is wrong due to uncertainty or unclear posting then that's a different matter.

This is just nonsense. You, like other posters here, are trying to put words in my mouth that I did not say and belittle me with strawman attitudes that I do not hold. Unfortunately for you all this is a permanent medium that everyone can read. You cannot back up your claim. I suggest you withdraw it.

Lingua Franca

IM0 wrote: »

be arsed

...learning what a strawman is and then hunting through my posts desperately trying to find one. :pac:

Uriel.

Lingua Franca wrote: »

This is just nonsense. You, like other posters here, are trying to put words in my mouth that I did not say and belittle me with strawman attitudes that I do not hold. Unfortunately for you all this is a permanent medium that everyone can read. You cannot back up your claim. I suggest you withdraw it.

Did you claim that ass slapping is sexual assault, and non-recognition of same or the laughing off of same in various contexts is part of rape culture?

Lingua Franca

Yes.

What I didn't say was that slapping someone on the arse leads to rape. The thread is only ten pages long, do try to keep up.

Rosy Posy

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

Sadly, I fear raising the awareness of rape on this thread won't get you much agreement. I wonder if this will get much thanks..

IMO this is precisely the place to raise awareness of rape culture. It's all well and good discussing it in tLL, but for attitudes to change the discussion needs to be brought to the mainstream. I think that it's something that many men and women, not just rapists, contribute to by their way of thinking, speaking and acting.

Uriel.

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Yes.

What I didn't say was that slapping someone on the arse leads to rape. The thread is only ten pages long, do try to keep up.

does rape culture lead to rape? or more rape as the case may be?

Henlars67

Before we go any further can somebody please define rape culture?

Uriel.

Henlars67 wrote: »

Before we go any further can somebody please define rape culture?

see 99 for some of its components

Lingua Franca

Uriel. wrote: »

does rape culture lead to rape? or more rape as the case may be?

Not necessarily. Rape culture is about normalising and accepting misogyny. It's an interesting subject, you should read up on it past the first chapter of a wikipedia page.

sbsquarepants

Uriel. wrote: »

does rape culture lead to rape? or more rape as the case may be?

Scumbags lead to rape, nothing else.

IM0

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Yes.

What I didn't say was that slapping someone on the arse leads to rape. The thread is only ten pages long, do try to keep up.

its 15 actually.that explains it, you cant see what has been said...cause you havent actually seen it :pac:

tritium

JEsus, how did we get from the ops original sex myth thread to a debate on rape culture. I thought we did that to death in a thread just a short while back. I don't think anyone's opinion is going to have changed in this the umpteenth thread to be manoeuvred in this direction. Isn't there a limit on how often we can go back to the same thing or doe that just apply to certain topics?

IM0

tritium wrote: »

JEsus, how did we get from the ops original sex myth thread to a debate on rape culture. I thought we did that to death in a thread just a short while back. I don't think anyone's opinion is going to have changed in this the umpteenth thread to be manoeuvred in this direction. Isn't there a limit on how often we can go back to the same thing or doe that just apply to certain topics?

It was when someone got a bee in thier arse Im pretty sure