Gay Adoption?

MajesticDonkey

Most people here seem to be talking about the ability of the parents and not the actual child involved. I'd personally be against gay adoption, simply because the majority of younger children in school I know are completely against being gay in general, so it wouldn't be in the child's best interest to have gay parents.

Maybe the attitude to gay people in the cities is different, but it definitely isn't in country areas.

NuMarvel

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Let's not confuse the most common way with the best. Yes, the majority of children will be raised by their own mother and father, but it doesn't follow that other types of families can't or don't raise their children just as well.

Trudiha

Henlars67 wrote: »

In my opinion it is best for a child to have positive male and female influences in his/her upbringing.

Not always possible unfortunately but in my view it's the best way.

Of course this most likely makes me a bigot in the eyes of those who love to get offended on other people's behalfs.

I don't think that makes you a bigot but I think that a child would have to be raised on an uninhabited island not to have both male and female infulences in their life.

Most folks who've had assisted conception, end up with male babies. Its a timing thing, apparently. Most of the lesbian parents I know have boys or mostly boys and I can honestly say that every single one of those little boys wees standing up. Even the mothers who've done their best to raise their little fellows to be non-sexist and non-violent end up with boya who go through a phase of thinking that girls smell and use their carefully crafted, non-violent toys as weapons.

NuMarvel

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Most people here seem to be talking about the ability of the parents and not the actual child involved. I'd personally be against gay adoption, simply because the majority of younger children in school I know are completely against being gay in general, so it wouldn't be in the child's best interest to have gay parents.

Maybe the attitude to gay people in the cities is different, but it definitely isn't in country areas.

Regardless of adoption by gay couples, that's an attitude that needs to be stamped out anyway. At least some of the children in those schools are gay themselves, so the school and parents need to be taking action to prevent any kind of homophobic bullying.

Not letting gay couples adopt won't stop that behaviour. If anything, it subtly endorses it.

Delirium

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

But we're talking about adoption, so why should an appeal to nature be a valid reason? It doesn't tell us much why you think it's preferable other than because a couple can't procreate they should be put below a couple that can.

gcgirl

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Most people here seem to be talking about the ability of the parents and not the actual child involved. I'd personally be against gay adoption, simply because the majority of younger children in school I know are completely against being gay in general, so it wouldn't be in the child's best interest to have gay parents.

Maybe the attitude to gay people in the cities is different, but it definitely isn't in country areas.

It's an attitude usually instilled in a child by their parents, kids listen to their parents

Being gay is not a choice
Being a homophobe is

B0jangles

Henlars67 wrote: »

In my opinion it is best for a child to have positive male and female influences in his/her upbringing.

Not always possible unfortunately but in my view it's the best way.

Of course this most likely makes me a bigot in the eyes of those who love to get offended on other people's behalfs.

Not a bigot, just not fully informed.

As has been posted earlier in this thread numerous studies have found that gay parents raise children that are as happy, well-balanced and healthy as heterosexual parents do.

The American Academy of Pediactrics has come out with a group statement that supports this result:

http://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/Pages/American-Academy-of-Pediatrics-Supports-Same-Gender-Civil-Marriage.aspx?nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR%3a+No+local+token

These are medical professionals whose life work is ensuring the health and wellbeing of children, not a gay rights lobby group. They approach this question from the point of view of what is best for children, not what is fairest for gay people. If gay parents raised unhappy, maladjusted children they would come out and say so.

They have come together to state that gay parents do as good a job as straight parents.

Fun-fact: Avengers actor Patrick Macnee was raised by his mother and her lesbian partner back in the 1930's and he turned out pretty well I think.

Trudiha

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Most people here seem to be talking about the ability of the parents and not the actual child involved. I'd personally be against gay adoption, simply because the majority of younger children in school I know are completely against being gay in general, so it wouldn't be in the child's best interest to have gay parents.

When I was a little kid (with straight parents) some of the other kids mocked me for wearing glasses. Should my parents have been banned from having kids because of their imperfect eyesight genes or should the other kids have been taught a bit about diversity or compassion?

wonderfulname

Henlars67 wrote: »

In my opinion it is best for a child to have positive male and female influences in his/her upbringing.

What is a gendered influence anyway? What is it that people want out of a male or female role model? And is it necessary that this be found in a nuclear family?

MajesticDonkey

NuMarvel wrote: »

Regardless of adoption by gay couples, that's an attitude that needs to be stamped out anyway. At least some of the children in those schools are gay themselves, so the school and parents need to be taking action to prevent any kind of homophobic bullying.

Not letting gay couples adopt won't stop that behaviour. If anything, it subtly endorses it.

It probably does need to be stomped out, but I think until more of the country accepts that being gay is actually a way of life, things need to stay the way they are (bar gay marriage, which I'm in favour of).

gcgirl wrote: »

It's an attitude usually instilled in a child by their parents, kids listen to their parents

Being gay is not a choice
Being a homophobe is

Usually? Maybe, but the majority of people in my class in school a few years ago were just homophobic of their own accord. I never met a gay person until college.

Trudiha wrote: »

When I was a little kid (with straight parents) some of the other kids mocked me for wearing glasses. Should my parents have been banned from having kids because of their imperfect eyesight genes or should the other kids have been taught a bit about diversity or compassion?

That's a silly comparison and you know that. I'm not talking about parents banning anything. Having glasses is far more common than being gay. Again, I'm talking about country areas and the attitude in those areas. It's not fully accepted yet.

NuMarvel

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

It probably does need to be stomped out, but I think until more of the country accepts that being gay is actually a way of life, things need to stay the way they are (bar gay marriage, which I'm in favour of).

There's no probably about it. It has to be. If this was racism, we wouldn't accept it. Homophobia has to be equally unacceptable.

No one would suggest that the State doesn't allow mixed race adoptions because there might be racism in certain parts of the country. It's the same with gay parenting.

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Usually? Maybe, but the majority of people in my class in school a few years ago were just homophobic of their own accord. I never met a gay person until college.

Prejudices are learned behaviours. There may not have been overt homophobia when you were growing up, but it was definitely learned.

Oh, and chances are you met plenty of gay people before college. You, and possibly they, just didn't realise it .

darced

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Trudiha

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

That's a silly comparison and you know that. I'm not talking about parents banning anything. Having glasses is far more common than being gay. Again, I'm talking about country areas and the attitude in those areas. It's not fully accepted yet.

No, it's a fair comparison. You've said that one set of parents (the gay) shouldn't be allowed to raise children in case they are bullied and I've asked if you'd allow my own dodgy eyed parents to have a child (like me) who was bullied.

Incidental, I've experienced less homophobia in small town West Cork than I have in London. Country people aren't small minded or more intolerant.

MajesticDonkey

NuMarvel wrote: »

Oh, and chances are you met plenty of gay people before college. You, and possibly they, just didn't realise it .

No, I can probably say I'm 99% certain of what I said.

Trudiha wrote: »

No, it's a fair comparison. You've said that one set of parents (the gay) shouldn't be allowed to raise children in case they are bullied and I've asked if you'd allow my own dodgy eyed parents to have a child (like me) who was bullied.

Incidental, I've experienced less homophobia in small town West Cork than I have in London. Country people aren't small minded or more intolerant.

Well, maybe it was just my school then.

wonderfulname

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Usually? Maybe, but the majority of people in my class in school a few years ago were just homophobic of their own accord. I never met a gay person until college.

I was 'out' from my first year in secondary school, I never had a problem, the majority of those I know report similar, experiences differ, but at any rate, I hardly see the relevance.

NuMarvel

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

No, I can probably say I'm 99% certain of what I said.

Alright, now I'm intrigued. How are you so certain? Did you try to snog most of them when you were a teenager?

Trudiha

I think that we're probably barking up the wrong tree with the bullying argument. Some kids are bullied and their differences are used as an excuse for this but other kids tick all of the same boxes but are never bullied. There are wild haired, chubby, glasses wearing kids who never get mocked because they are too popular.

1ZRed

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well I had a mom and dad, all very typical, but I wouldn't say he had any huge influence on me at all. Shaving was mentioned there and I learned that myself, I pretty much did all the stereotypical stuff you see on TV were the dad would teach the son to shave and talk to him about sex, I did all that on my own.

Don't get me wrong, I was still happy growing up, I just didn't have a very hands on dad at all and so I say I didn't have any real male influence growing up.

Didn't seem to affect me at all though. I'm into sport and I was at the top of my class in engineering and woodwork. Even without a strong make influence it still didn't hold me back or demasculinise me so you could say that you don't need both. Single parents' kids are solid proof of this.

If anything I look back and think I would've liked two hands-on parents, my mom was great, but if you're talking about male influence then my dad did lack a lot there.

I think having two hands-on parents, regardless of gender, would've benefitted me a lot instead of just one, especially under my circumstances it would've made it a bit easier I think.

That's why this argument that you need both a male and female influence or both is best doesn't hold up to me.

MajesticDonkey

NuMarvel wrote: »

Alright, now I'm intrigued. How are you so certain? Did you try to snog most of them when you were a teenager?

Of course!

I like to think I'm a fairly good reader of people...I went to a small school, one where you know nearly every student (or their families at least) within 3 years of you, it's just one of things I feel I would have noticed.

Anyway, I've given my opinion and explained it, so I can't really do any more. I don't really see the point in arguing about it.

Delirium

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I don't agree and that's why I'm asking for reasons as to why a child should be brought up by a hetero couple. Studies have been cited on this thread to show that same-sex couples are just as capable as hetero couples.

I dont doubt some gay couple's could be good parents,I dont believe for one second that they would'nt get bullied though,unless secondary school has changed beyond all recognition.

Just because a child isn't being raised by a same-sex couple doesn't mean they will avoid being bullied in school. And it's the bullying that needs addressing rather than denying same-sex couples the opportunity to adopt.

Trudiha

My grandfather was away working from the time my father way six months old until he was nearly seven and my dad doesn't seem to have had any gender issues, is excellent at shaving and learned to fill in a betting slip.

Vomit

I don't think homosexuality will ever be fully accepted, as it challenges the very core of the yin-yang structure upon which society and the human race sits. It goes against the grain of most people's very identity. And we don't have to go to satirical extremes and talk about Mammy stays at home baking cakes while Daddy goes to work. But 'boy meets girl' is the reason humankind is still around today.

Who can say for sure that homosexuality isn't something that mostly prevails when nurtured? Richard Dawkins can't. It's a complex thing- the BRAIN is a complex organ. Seems nowadays that homosexuality is promoted and celebrated more than ever in the media and in popular culture.

Maybe I'm just out of touch - who the f**k knows whats supposed to be normal these days. I thought I was with it, but they keep changing what 'it' is.. (It'll happen to you!).

I wouldn't be so quick to believe every study in favour of Gay adoption- studies and statistics and the people who carry them out aren't perfect, and they haven't had enough time.

MajesticDonkey

koth wrote: »

Just because a child isn't being raised by a same-sex couple doesn't mean they will avoid being bullied in school. And it's the bullying that needs addressing rather than denying same-sex couples the opportunity to adopt.

This, I believe, is the most immediate concern. Change the attitude in schools around the country and then consider allowing gay adoption.

wylam

@Majesticdonkey ,People are not homophobic of their own accord , these are learned traits , from grandparents , parents and peers. And I moved to west cork 15 years ago and i've never met more clannish , pig ignorant , nosy bunch of people in my entire life.I will be labelled a "blow in" for the rest of my life , and my children are referred to as "the blow in's daughter/son" . I can just imagine what the talk would be if someone came out a being gay lol.

Bannasidhe

Henlars67 wrote: »

In my opinion it is best for a child to have positive male and female influences in his/her upbringing.

Not always possible unfortunately but in my view it's the best way.

Of course this most likely makes me a bigot in the eyes of those who love to get offended on other people's behalfs.

Are only father's and Mother's capable of being positive role models?

Jeeze - times have really changed since I was growing up what with all of these kids being raised in splendid isolation with only their parents for company. :eek:

I had grannys (no granddads ) and aunties and uncles and lashings of cousins and we had neighbours and my parents had friends and everything.

Bannasidhe

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Most people here seem to be talking about the ability of the parents and not the actual child involved. I'd personally be against gay adoption, simply because the majority of younger children in school I know are completely against being gay in general, so it wouldn't be in the child's best interest to have gay parents.

Maybe the attitude to gay people in the cities is different, but it definitely isn't in country areas.

isn't it past your bedtime?

MajesticDonkey

Bannasidhe wrote: »

isn't it past your bedtime?

Isn't it about time you grew up, instead of posting silly comments like that? What makes you think I'm still in school?

I'll explain:
I worded it like so:

the majority of younger children in school I know are completely against being gay in general

...meaning I still actually know the people I went to school with, as opposed to:

the majority of younger children I know in school are completely against being gay in general

to show that I'm not actually still in school. And even if I was in school, what makes you think it'd be past my bedtime?

Keep your comments to yourself unless you've got something to add to the debate.

Pherekydes

Vomit wrote: »

I don't think homosexuality will ever be fully accepted, as it challenges the very core of the yin-yang structure upon which society and the human race sits. It goes against the grain of most people's very identity. And we don't have to go to satirical extremes and talk about Mammy stays at home baking cakes while Daddy goes to work. But 'boy meets girl' is the reason humankind is still around today.

Who can say for sure that homosexuality isn't something that mostly prevails when nurtured? Richard Dawkins can't. It's a complex thing- the BRAIN is a complex organ. Seems nowadays that homosexuality is promoted and celebrated more than ever in the media and in popular culture.

Maybe I'm just out of touch - who the f**k knows whats supposed to be normal these days. I thought I was with it, but they keep changing what 'it' is.. (It'll happen to you!).

I wouldn't be so quick to believe every study in favour of Gay adoption- studies and statistics and the people who carry them out aren't perfect, and they haven't had enough time.

That's one load of vomit.

Bannasidhe

Trudiha wrote: »

I don't think that makes you a bigot but I think that a child would have to be raised on an uninhabited island not to have both male and female infulences in their life.

Most folks who've had assisted conception, end up with male babies. Its a timing thing, apparently. Most of the lesbian parents I know have boys or mostly boys and I can honestly say that every single one of those little boys wees standing up. Even the mothers who've done their best to raise their little fellows to be non-sexist and non-violent end up with boya who go through a phase of thinking that girls smell and use their carefully crafted, non-violent toys as weapons.

Straws from Maccy D's can be employed as toy guns. FACT.

as can twigs, branches, hands, whisks, pencils, etc etc


Don't even get me started on what can be used as a sword.

I just went with the flow and taught him how to make his own bow and arrows and turned his bunk beds into a castle. Oh, and I bought my own sword.

Vomit

Pherekydes wrote: »

That's one load of vomit.

AAAhhahahahahahahahahahaha!! I see what you did there! Oh man!