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Gay Adoption?

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    #242
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    There is a case in Connecticut of two gay men repeatedly raping two of their adopted sons.

    Rightly or wrongly, cases like that will put people off same sex adoptions. Even if it can be proven that statistically, gay men are not more prone to abusing their adopted sons.

    Tbh people who have such a phenomenally flawed view of the world and a clear inability to think critically have a lot more to worry about in themselves and their own intellect rather than gay marriage.


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    #243
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    Rightly or wrongly, cases like that will put people off same sex adoptions. Even if it can be proven that statistically, gay men are not more prone to abusing their adopted sons.

    So much stupid in this post I can hardly bear it...ajkldfhsadsjknfhjkahfajkfnjknsajknfjkdanfjkdsfjkajsdfhasjk


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    #244
    shopaholic01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,916 ✭✭✭shopaholic01


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    There was a case in Austria where a father imprisoned and repeatedly raped his daughter - impregnating her 7 times.

    Rightly or wrongly, cases like that will put people off fathers. Even if it can be proven that statistically, fathers are not more prone to abusing their daughters.
    And let's not forget Fred and Rosemary West - straight people shouldn't be allowed have children, biological or adopted.


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    #245
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Tbh people who have such a phenomenally flawed view of the world and a clear inability to think critically have a lot more to worry about in themselves and their own intellect rather than gay marriage.

    It sticks in peoples minds. People are pretty impressionable, and those that oppose same sex adoption will use it to paint a particular picture.

    If we do have a referendum on same sex marriage/adoption - it is going to be an absolute clusterf*ck.

    Id probably leave the country for a month beforehand. Not joking either.


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    #246
    gcgirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    There is a case in Connecticut of two gay men repeatedly raping two of their adopted sons.

    Rightly or wrongly, cases like that will put people off same sex adoptions. Even if it can be proven that statistically, gay men are not more prone to abusing their adopted sons.

    WTF ?????

    I know far more heterosexual fathers that abused their kids than any LGBT parent(which is zero)


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    #247
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    Seachmall wrote: »
    So much stupid in this post I can hardly bear it...ajkldfhsadsjknfhjkahfajkfnjknsajknfjkdanfjkdsfjkajsdfhasjk

    I dont know why you are all freaking out. I already said that I am neutral on the issue.

    My point was that people are going to use this particular case, to suit their anti gay marriage/adoption agenda.

    This is hardly an earth shattering or stupid statement to make


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    #248
    orestes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,972 ✭✭✭orestes


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    There is a case in Connecticut of two gay men repeatedly raping two of their adopted sons.

    Rightly or wrongly, cases like that will put people off same sex adoptions. Even if it can be proven that statistically, gay men are not more prone to abusing their adopted sons.

    That case hasn't even made it to trial yet, the men have been accused by two of their foster children while others of their foster children are saying they are innocent.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/08/george-harasz-douglas-wirth-gay-couple-sexual-abuse-foster-sons_n_3039562.html

    Even bringing it up here is pointless scaremongering.


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    #249
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    I dont know why you are all freaking out. I already said that I am neutral on the issue.

    My point was that people are going to use this particular case, to suit their anti gay marriage/adoption agenda.

    This is hardly an earth shattering or stupid statement to make

    Three words.
    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    Rightly or wrongly

    As in,
    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    Rightly or wrongly, cases like that will put people off same sex adoptions.

    Do you really think that could be right? Really? REALLY?


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    #250
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    This thread would have been more interesting with a poll.


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    #251
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    There is a case in Connecticut of two gay men repeatedly raping two of their adopted sons.

    Rightly or wrongly, cases like that will put people off same sex adoptions. Even if it can be proven that statistically, gay men are not more prone to abusing their adopted sons.


    As anecdotal evidence goes, even that's scraping the bottom of the barrel, it's akin to the "all gay men are pedos" elephant in the room myth perpetuated by ignorance and a lack of understanding that christian groups would have their followers believe is true.

    If you had wanted to use examples of people who should never be allowed adopt children, you could've had your pick of numerous celebrities who treat adopted children as fashion accessories, two in particular that spring to mind are Elton John and David Furnish, you could've said because they're gay, but I would've said it's because they treat adopted children like they're a fashion accessory.

    I would also have countered your point using examples like Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt, or Madonna, hell even Sacha Baron Cohen if you've ever seen the film "Bruno", ripped the pìss out of that particular phenomenon and played off all the myths surrounding adoption by people who were LGBT.

    I'm just surprised we were 20 odd pages in before someone introduced that white elephant anecdote as "evidence" to suggest it's one of the reasons why LGBT people should not be allowed adopt children, especially when incest, sexual and physical abuse is far more common in heterosexual people.


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    #252
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    My only claim was that cases like the one in Connecticut, will be used by certain groups against gay marriage/adoption and will convince some to vote against it. That is all. Nothing else.

    If you are freaking out about that - good luck to you if we ever have a referendum on the issue. The wolves will eat you alive.

    You will get same sex marriage passed. Dont think you will ever get same sex adoption.

    Imho.


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    #253
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    My only claim was that cases like the one in Connecticut, will be used by certain groups against gay marriage/adoption and will convince some to vote against it. That is all. Nothing else.

    If you are freaking out about that - good luck to you if we ever have a referendum on the issue. The wolves will eat you alive.

    You will get same sex marriage passed. Dont think you will ever get same sex adoption.

    Imho.

    That's the biggest load of shite I've read in this thread, so far anyway.

    It'll happen because it has the interest of the children at heart to protect them. Gay people can adopt already, it's happening, just not as a couple.
    Some redneck's prejudice isn't going to weigh up against what is right even if it's perceived to be wrong and sick to them.


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    #254
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    1ZRed wrote: »
    That's the biggest load of shite I've read in this thread, so far anyway.

    It'll happen because it has the interest of the children at heart to protect them. Gay people can adopt already, it's happening, just not as a couple.
    Some redneck's prejudice isn't going to weigh up against what is right even if it's perceived to be wrong and sick to them.

    I dont think that it would carry in a referendum. Opinion polls show us that the majority of Irish people support same sex marriage - but the opposite rings true for same sex adoption.


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    #255
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    My only claim was that cases like the one in Connecticut, will be used by certain groups against gay marriage/adoption and will convince some to vote against it. That is all. Nothing else.

    If you are freaking out about that - good luck to you if we ever have a referendum on the issue. The wolves will eat you alive.

    You will get same sex marriage passed. Dont think you will ever get same sex adoption.

    Imho.

    The only people that will bring up examples like that are people already skirting the fringes and less likely to be believed. The likes of the Iona Institute etc won't use examples like that. Even they know these cases are extreme.


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    #256
    shoos
    Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭shoos


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    My only claim was that cases like the one in Connecticut, will be used by certain groups against gay marriage/adoption and will convince some to vote against it. That is all. Nothing else.

    You're forgetting the fact that people have brains, the ability to think critically and figure out what is logical against what is absolute brain-dead zero basis for it nonsense.

    If you think that the argument for gay parents being more risky for abuse will get anywhere then you are seriously naive.


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    #257
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    My only claim was that cases like the one in Connecticut, will be used by certain groups against gay marriage/adoption and will convince some to vote against it. That is all. Nothing else.

    If you are freaking out about that - good luck to you if we ever have a referendum on the issue. The wolves will eat you alive.

    You will get same sex marriage passed. Dont think you will ever get same sex adoption.

    Imho.

    If Marriage is passed then it includes the 'right' to adopt as a couple - to change that the legislation governing adoption would have to be changed specifically to exclude gay couples in which case the equality people will be all over it.

    That one would go to Europe and Ireland would lose. Again.


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    #258
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    shoos wrote: »
    You're forgetting the fact that people have brains, the ability to think critically and figure out what is logical against what is absolute brain-dead zero basis for it nonsense.

    If you think that the argument for gay parents being more risky for abuse will get anywhere then you are seriously naive.

    You have a lot more faith in the Irish electorate than I.

    Remind me again, which political party is currently topping the red C poll?


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    #259
    gcgirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    This is where adoption part comes in to play
    lesbian couple decide to have baby together with the help of donor sperm
    one is the biological parent the other is the non biological parent
    If anything happens biological parent the non biological parent has no say as that will have passed on to parents of the biological parent
    this is where we need to support the non biological parental rights
    also on grounds of maintenance couple has baby one walks and fails to financially support their ex and child, its about getting these in more than anything else LGBT's are already having kids and the kids of these family's are treated like 2nd class citizens


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    #260
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    If Marriage is passed then it includes the 'right' to adopt as a couple - to change that the legislation governing adoption would have to be changed specifically to exclude gay couples in which case the equality people will be all over it.

    That one would go to Europe and Ireland would lose. Again.

    Ah, ok. So its both or none.

    None it is, so. :)


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    #261
    gcgirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    You have a lot more faith in the Irish electorate than I.

    Remind me again, which political party is currently topping the red C poll?

    quite a few FG td's support marriage equality


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    #262
    shoos
    Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭shoos


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    You have a lot more faith in the Irish electorate than I.

    Remind me again, which political party is currently topping the red C poll?

    If the electorate vote against gay adoption, it will be for reasons to do with their upbringing, religious teachings or just general prejudice against gay people.

    Anyone who actually believes or tries to argue the point of gay people more likely being abusers will be immediately outed as a fool as there are SO MANY examples of that not being true. That argument will get them nowhere.


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    #263
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    gcgirl wrote: »
    quite a few FG td's support marriage equality

    Fianna fail top the polls.


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    #264
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    Ah, ok. So its both or none.

    None it is, so. :)

    What's your problem with gay couples adopting?


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    #265
    gcgirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    Fianna fail top the polls.
    The lies of bored housewives !!! they'd say anything to get them redc people off the phones


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    #266
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    I dont think that it would carry in a referendum. Opinion polls show us that the majority of Irish people support same sex marriage - but the opposite rings true for same sex adoption.

    Don't opinion polls also show a majority in support of adoption by gay couples? I could have sworn the last one showed that.


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    #267
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    Don't opinion polls also show a majority in support of adoption by gay couples? I could have sworn the last one showed that.

    Dont think so - if you can produce some figures that would be great.


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    #268
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    Don't opinion polls also show a majority in support of adoption by gay couples? I could have sworn the last one showed that.

    That was just the lies of bored housewives !!! they'd say anything to get them redc people off the phones




    :pac:


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    #269
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    Dont think so - if you can produce some figures that would be great.
    The poll, which was carried out in late 2012 by Millward Brown Lansdowne for Marriage Equality, shows 75 per cent of people would vote yes in a referendum to extend civil marriage to same-sex couples. In 2008, 63 per cent of respondents said they would vote yes....

    When asked about adoption, 69 per cent of people agree that being raised in a loving home by parents is a more significant factor for a child’s wellbeing than being raised by a mother and a father. A total of 54 per cent agree that same-sex couples should be legally allowed to jointly adopt a child.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/75-support-same-sex-marriage-poll-1.1072147


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    #270
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    I think its absolutely ridiculous that in this day in age, a gay couple can't adopt as a couple.

    Straight people can get their marriages annulled in less than 24 hours because it was a drunken mistake, pop out 10+ kids they have no intention or means of looking after, and the law does nothing. Yet when a gay couple want to give a child a stable home, it isn't allowed? Sickens me to my stomach.

    I don't get why heterosexuals get so riled up about this, it has nothing to do with us. How would YOU feel if you were told under no circumstances could you or your partner have children together, for no good reason at all?

    We were all born equals, we should all have equal rights. Shame on those who are trying to take away the happiness of others. Its about time Ireland became up to date with modern times. Homosexual couples should be allowed to adopt, definitely.

    And God forbid, if anything happened my OH and I and family were unable to take our (hypothetical future) children, I'd be more than happy for a gay couple to bring them up.


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    #271
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    The thing is though most people here don't give a **** about the kids, they just their worldview accepted and move on to the next battle for equality. That word has lost it's true meaning.


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