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Gay Adoption?

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13567…23

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    #62
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    crockholm wrote: »
    And there was me being civil with you,not sure what scrabble has to do with your question.You didn't ask me about my choice.And as for catching the gay,wrap up well when going out.

    No i didnt ask you but plenty of others did and you didnt answer them so i thought id try it.


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    #63
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    Kids can get bullied for any number of reasons. Don't think gay parents will have much influence in that regard. Kick in the boll#x solves bullying.


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    #64
    crockholm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭crockholm


    Nodin wrote: »
    Not the way I read it.

    Why would you prefer a child to go to straight parents?

    re-read, and why I would prefer to see my son go to a straight couple,would be that it would remind him of his Mom and Dad. It is a great balance a Mother and Father, is it not?


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    #65
    Henlars67
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Henlars67


    Me_Grapes wrote: »
    If it came up in a referendum tomorrow I'd vote yes for gay adoption.

    However, I would really really would hope that the kid wouldn't get a hard time because of it. Certainly in the school I went to, any whiff of a child being reared by two dads would have led to a miserable childhood, hopefully things have moved on from then though.

    The vitriolic abuse and isolation that was levied at the two openly gay fellas (not with each other) in my school was on a whole other level to fat, ginger or stupid kids, unfortunate but that's the way it was.

    It was the same in the 4 different schools that I would have attended growing up.

    In one there was one girl who was raised by a single mother who was known to be a lesbian and the abuse she got was truly awful.

    It definitely wasn't a place I'd have liked to be if I was the child of homosexual parent/s


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    #66
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Would you prefer they don't?

    In a perfect world a child should go to a couple with a mother and father, in my opinion. However I know that this is not a perfect world so be it what may. If it means that less mothers take the boat to get an abortion and give the child up for adoption to a loving and capable gay couple then so be it. Rates for adoption have crashed anyway in the past few decades so this issue really at the forefront of the debate.

    I would have thought in an ideal situation they'd go to the best people, regardless.


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    #67
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    crockholm wrote: »
    re-read, and why I would prefer to see my son go to a straight couple,would be that it would remind him of his Mom and Dad. It is a great balance a Mother and Father, is it not?

    Surely sending him to the best suited couple would be the priority no? Be they straight or gay?


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    #68
    Srianadh
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭Srianadh


    The only peer reviewed large sample study on parenthood and sexual orientation was done by a Dr. Ryan Lamb on Cambridge University. His (peer reviewed) conclusion was that the sex/orientation of the parents wasn't as crucial a factor as the state of the loving relationship between the parents. The more caring an environment the kid is raised in, the better off they'll be. There was also no change in the rate of homosexuality in the children raised by gay parents in comparison to those raised by straight parents.

    For me, that's end of discussion. Allow adoption and marriage. Society has everything to gain and nothing to lose.


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    #69
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    By the way, this idea that the general public can decide what group of people might or might not be good parents is a misdirection.

    The process of applying for adoption includes an intensive assessment by qualified social workers and can take 9 - 15 months. And even if a couple is lucky enough to have a child placed with them (there are nearly twice as many suitable applicants as children adopted in Ireland), they are subject to more assessments by the Adoption Authority before a formal Adoption Order is issued.

    The decision as to whether a couple can or cannot make good parents is based on individual merit and circumstances, by presumably qualified and experienced people. It's not a decision that should be made by the general public.


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    #70
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    I would have thought in an ideal situation they'd go to the best people, regardless.

    That's naive of you.


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    #71
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    That's naive of you.

    Do please explain.


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    #72
    crockholm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭crockholm


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Surely sending him to the best suited couple would be the priority no? Be they straight or gay?
    Like I posted earlier why is there the assumption that that couple is gay?

    To repeat,people say- wouldn't you prefer that they went to a stable loving environment when describing gay would be parents.

    If it is a choice between a stable straight home or a stable gay home, which would you choose?


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    #73
    Henlars67
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Henlars67


    crockholm wrote: »
    Like I posted earlier why is there the assumption that that couple is gay?

    To repeat,people say- wouldn't you prefer that they went to a stable loving environment when describing gay would be parents.

    If it is a choice between a stable straight home or a stable gay home, which would you choose?

    He'd have to choose a gay home because he'd be a bigot if he didn't.


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    #74
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    crockholm wrote: »
    If myself and the wife were to die, and no sibling was willing to take my son,I would be happier to send him to a straight couple. Probably insistant on it.

    Not everyone agrees with you.

    Two lesbian friends of mine were approached and asked if they were interested in adopting by a colleague.

    She was the sister of a (married) woman who was pregnant with her 4th child but had suffered from sever post natal depression requiring medical treatment with her other children and was still receiving treatment after child #3 (who was a year old). Mother and Father agreed that they simply couldn't cope with a 4th child so decided to put it up for adoption but was both had suffered at the hands of dysfunctional heterosexual parents they decided they would prefer if a lesbian couple adopt - so via the mother's sister approached my friends and asked if they were interested.

    Her future adoptive parent(s) were present for her birth. They had 'passed' all of the social services checks etc etc but were initially only recognised as foster parents.

    For the first 3 years of her life this little girl was seriously ill and both nursed her around the clock ( also holding down jobs) while fighting an expensive and protracted legal battle to be allowed to formally adopt her.

    Eventually the case went to the Old Bailey, the biological parents were in court and were insistent that this lesbian couple were their preferred choice, eventually the judge granted the adoption because he could find no legal reason to deny it - but only one of the couple was allowed to adopt as an individual - they were denied the right to adopt as a couple even though both had been recognised as foster parents.

    This child is now 14 - she still has only one legal parent- her 'other' mother is still considered a stranger as far as the law is concerned.


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    #75
    manarocket
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭manarocket


    Trudiha wrote: »
    I'm not a great fan of adoption, I'd far rather see birth parents given all of the support needed to raise their own child but I'm aware that it isn't always possible and that it can be a fantastic outcome for both folks unable to have birth children of their own and the adopted child.

    Gay people can adopt but only as single parents and not as couples and while I'm sure that we all know of lone parents doing a fantastic job, is it ideal to deliberately give a child only one legal parent when their are two available?

    Typical of Irish Law to give something with one hand and take it away with the other. I don't know of any "gay adoptions" but it must be really difficult for a single person to be approved, ahead of a couple.
    I'd have no issue with a gay couple male or female adopting but it would seem unfair on a child to not have the opportunity to have 2 parents.


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    #76
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    crockholm wrote: »
    Like I posted earlier why is there the assumption that that couple is gay?

    Show me where i assumed the best option had to be the gay couple?
    crockholm wrote: »
    To repeat,people say- wouldn't you prefer that they went to a stable loving environment when describing gay would be parents.

    Never seen evidence of this in fact my experience is exactly the opposite and people with a preconception of gay people and their lifestyle assume that a straight couple would have to be more loving
    crockholm wrote: »
    If it is a choice between a stable straight home or a stable gay home, which would you choose?

    If it came down to it and they were EXACTLY the same, which is an impossible scenario, id flip a coin, i honestly couldnt care less about the sexuality of the couple just as long as they were the best possible option

    also by the way your guilty of the exactly the same thing your accusing me of by assuming the best couple has to be straight


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    #77
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    crockholm wrote: »
    If it is a choice between a stable straight home or a stable gay home, which would you choose?

    Then we let the experts choose, and trust in their decision unless they give us reason not to.

    In the meantime, what we can do is make sure the law changes so that when the experts choose a gay couple, that couple have the option to legally marry so that the child isn't left in a legal limbo regarding one of his/her adoptive parents.


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    #78
    crockholm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭crockholm


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Not everyone agrees with you.

    Two lesbian friends of mine were approached and asked if they were interested in adopting by a colleague.

    She was the sister of a (married) woman who was pregnant with her 4th child but had suffered from sever post natal depression requiring medical treatment with her other children and was still receiving treatment after child #3 (who was a year old). Mother and Father agreed that they simply couldn't cope with a 4th child so decided to put it up for adoption but was both had suffered at the hands of dysfunctional heterosexual parents they decided they would prefer if a lesbian couple adopt - so via the mother's sister approached my friends and asked if they were interested.

    Her future adoptive parent(s) were present for her birth. They had 'passed' all of the social services checks etc etc but were initially only recognised as foster parents.

    For the first 3 years of her life this little girl was seriously ill and both nursed her around the clock ( also holding down jobs) while fighting an expensive and protracted legal battle to be allowed to formally adopt her.

    Eventually the case went to the Old Bailey, the biological parents were in court and were insistent that this lesbian couple were their preferred choice, eventually the judge granted the adoption because he could find no legal reason to deny it - but only one of the couple was allowed to adopt as an individual - they were denied the right to adopt as a couple even though both had been recognised as foster parents.

    This child is now 14 - she still has only one legal parent- her 'other' mother is still considered a stranger as far as the law is concerned.
    That was the parents wishes and they were respected. Just like mine would be,were we both to die.


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    #79
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    crockholm wrote: »
    If it is a choice between a stable straight home or a stable gay home, which would you choose?
    What kind of question is that?

    I don't know about you but I prefer not to think about my parents' sex life. I don't love them for their genders either. Strange that it would even cross someone's mind.


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    #80
    gcgirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    IceFjoem wrote: »
    I am against it as the child may be bullied.
    BOOM!!!

    That's crap
    I'm gay
    My kids haven't been hassled over it


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    #81
    crockholm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭crockholm


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Show me where i assumed the best option had to be the gay couple?



    Never seen evidence of this in fact my experience is exactly the opposite and people with a preconception of gay people and their lifestyle assume that a straight couple would have to be more loving



    If it came down to it and they were EXACTLY the same, which is an impossible scenario, id flip a coin, i honestly couldnt care less about the sexuality of the couple just as long as they were the best possible option

    also by the way your guilty of the exactly the same thing your accusing me of by assuming the best couple has to be straight
    If the kid was born to 2 dads or 2 moms, then perhaps gay adoption would be best for that particular child. My son was born to a mom and a dad and it would be my wish to see that mom/dad partnership continued if we were unable.


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    #82
    manarocket
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭manarocket


    gcgirl wrote: »
    That's crap
    I'm gay
    My kids haven't been hassled over it

    Did you adopt or did you have kids then split, not being smart just asking?


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    #83
    crockholm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭crockholm


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    What kind of question is that?

    I don't know about you but I prefer not to think about my parents' sex life. I don't love them for their genders either. Strange that it would even cross someone's mind.
    Its a question that would be asked


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    #84
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    Do please explain.

    There will always be a criteria to these things, with very thing weighed up. It's naive to think that the 'best' people are always chosen or even have to be chosen. It's like trying to decide having the 'best' wife or child.


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    #85
    FoxT
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,204 ✭✭✭FoxT


    "If the kid was born to 2 dads or 2 moms, then perhaps gay adoption would be best for that particular child. My son was born to a mom and a dad and it would be my wish to see that mom/dad partnership continued if we were unable. "



    Great point, Crockholm, I fully agree with it.


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    #86
    gcgirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    manarocket wrote: »
    Did you adopt or did you have kids then split, not being smart just asking?

    Stuck in Narnia for most my life had kids with male X


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    #87
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    bluewolf wrote: »
    No, it's personal experience of myself and other posters

    I know children will be influenced greatly by what they hear too - so if mum and dad are at home insulting the gay couple, they will carry that on. The answer is to stop spreading bigotry, not do your best to suppress people's rights (and I do mean that gay couples where one has a natural child and raised them should have rights) in case people have a problem with it

    Kids get bullied all the time for all sorts of reasons, trivial or otherwise, so it's a stupid argument

    Indeed.

    My son was never bullied because he had two mothers - he did get some serious flack for having an English accent. That passed once he learned to talk 'Cork'. Took him about 2 months to get the hang of those long vowel sounds, rising inflection, ending words in an 'aaaa' and saying 'like' a lot. From then on he was just one of the lads.

    My heterosexual sister's son was seriously bullied throughout primary school...including being hospitalised.

    Nephew was first bullied for being very very skinny so he began to eat lots - then he got bullied for being fat. :rolleyes:


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    #88
    Minderbinder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭Minderbinder


    I honestly don't see what all the fuss is about. It doesn't affect me in the slightest if a gay couple adopt a child and there is no reason to assume they wouldn't be as good at parenting as any other couple. At the moment though it's pretty sad that both partners in a gay relationship can't have equal parental rights.


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    #89
    Trudiha
    Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Trudiha


    manarocket wrote: »
    Did you adopt or did you have kids then split, not being smart just asking?

    No offence but do you mind me asking how your children were conceived and can I have as much detail as possible, please?


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    #90
    manarocket
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭manarocket


    gcgirl wrote: »
    Stuck in Narnia for most my life had kids with male X

    Wow, fair play, very brave of you. How did your hubby / partner take it? How is he with you now? Does he have a relationship with your kids?


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    #91
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    crockholm wrote: »
    If the kid was born to 2 dads or 2 moms, then perhaps gay adoption would be best for that particular child. My son was born to a mom and a dad and it would be my wish to see that mom/dad partnership continued if we were unable.

    So you are worried about the effect of a change from having a heterosexual set of parents to a homsexual set of parents?


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