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Gay Adoption?

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12467…23

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    #92
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    There will always be a criteria to these things, with very thing weighed up. It's naive to think that the 'best' people are always chosen or even have to be chosen. It's like trying to decide having the 'best' wife or child.


    I presume that the system is there to try and ascertain - as much is possible in these things - who is suitable and presents as the best possible parents for the child. Obviously there will be mistakes made. I don't see whats "naive" about thinking that.


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    #93
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    crockholm wrote: »
    Its a question that would be asked
    fair enough so if you insist!

    would you love your dad if he had mammary glands?


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    #94
    Sin City
    Registered Users Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭Sin City


    Trudiha wrote: »
    No offence but do you mind me asking how your children were conceived and can I have as much detail as possible, please?

    Stork left em or so I was told :D:D


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    #95
    Trudiha
    Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Trudiha


    Henlars67 wrote: »
    He'd have to choose a gay home because he'd be a bigot if he didn't.

    I'm not aware of anyone having asked for gay folks to have first refusal at any children needing adoptive homes, just the same chance at showing that they be decent parents, a level playing field. I'd be the first person to tell you that I know of many gay people who should never be allowed to adopt, just in the same way that I know plenty of straight parents who really should never have even contemplated kids.


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    #96
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    It's being asked would you want to have been adopted by a gay couple/would you be ok with your child being adopted by a gay couple. But the question is: do you think same-sex couples should be allowed to adopt? IMO, whatever my views are, they should. I cannot fathom not allowing someone to have the freedom to do somethng that doesn't affect me. If someone's child is being adopted and they don't want a gay couple adopting the child, fine, don't pick the gay couple... but other cases don't concern you.

    Re the bullying: nowadays children in Ireland are from a number of what were once deemed unconventional circumstances - single parent homes, raised by grandparents, far more ethnic diversity. And there are countless "reasons" for bullying. Children aren't automatically prejudiced - older children and adults make them that way.
    Why capitulate to bullying? Why not educate about difference first and foremost?


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    #97
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    crockholm wrote: »
    That was the parents wishes and they were respected. Just like mine would be,were we both to die.

    Yes, it was their wish but their choice of parents were forced to spend thousands of pounds and fight a legal battle for over 3 years even though they had passed all of the checks and had the full support of social services - and even then were denied the right to adopt as a couple.

    One of them was allowed to adopt as an individual only because the judge could find no legal reason to prevent it - even though he made it clear in his ruling that he wanted to - but he was able to deny this child the security of having both her parents legally recognised.

    So what would happen if her legally recognised adoptive mother dies (in fact she is currently in remission from cancer)? Where does she go? An aunt? Will her other mother who has been there since she was born have to apply to adopt her? Legally she will be an orphan...

    Would that happen to a heterosexual married couple? No. It would not.


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    #98
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Two loving parents, one loving parent, grandparents, aunt, uncle, whatever. As long as the child is given a home with stability, emotional support and a loving family, I think anyone should be able to adopt. So long as they fit the correct criteria (none of which I would even think should involve parental/guardian sexuality)

    Though you have some that will always think they will raise more ghays!!! :rolleyes:


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    #99
    orestes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,972 ✭✭✭orestes


    Henlars67 wrote: »
    That is a valid reason for people to have concerns about it.

    There is no doubt that children of homosexual couples will be bullied by children who don't know any better and probably in some cases by adults who should know better.

    Depending on the extent of the bullying, it could lead to a very unhappy childhood regardless of how good their adoptive parents are.

    I'm undecided whether or not that is a good enough reason to be against gay adoption, I don't have any other issues with it whatsoever, though I would like to say that people shouldn't be labelled as bigots for saying that the ideal place to raise a child is in a family with a mother and father.

    I got bullied because my parents got divorced, maybe they should have been forced to stay together?


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    #100
    wylam
    Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭wylam


    People seem to have tunnel vision on this issue and relate all of the short comings in our legal system to being anti gay.The truth is our legal system is pro marriage of hetero couples.Our whole backward catholic social and legal systems discriminate against anyone that does not fit this profile. A couple that is not married cannot both adopt a child, one of them will get sole custody and the other will have no rights to the child what so ever.This is true for gay and straight couples.


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    #101
    Trudiha
    Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Trudiha


    wylam wrote: »
    People seem to have tunnel vision on this issue and relate all of the short comings in our legal system to being anti gay.The truth is our legal system is pro marriage of hetero couples.Our whole backward catholic social and legal systems discriminate against anyone that does not fit this profile. A couple that is not married cannot both adopt a child, one of them will get sole custody and the other will have no rights to the child what so ever.This is true for gay and straight couples.

    You're quite right, all of the ill of society aren't being excursively blasted at gay folks, many other groups suffer discrimination too. The situation around single fathers being 'awarded' rights to their child, rather than being automatically legally entitled to them is wrong but because other groups are being treated unfairly, doesn't make the unfair treatment of another group acceptable. The difference with the straight couple in your example is that the straight couple can marry if they want to.


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    #102
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    wylam wrote: »
    People seem to have tunnel vision on this issue and relate all of the short comings in our legal system to being anti gay.The truth is our legal system is pro marriage of hetero couples.Our whole backward catholic social and legal systems discriminate against anyone that does not fit this profile. A couple that is not married cannot both adopt a child, one of them will get sole custody and the other will have no rights to the child what so ever.This is true for gay and straight couples.

    But the hetro couple have the option of getting married which will allow them to adopt as a couple. That option is not available to gay couples so as it currently stands they will never be able to adopt as a couple.

    If something discriminates against a particular group it can be classified as 'anti' even if this particular discriminatory aspect was an unintended consequence.


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    #103
    gcgirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    manarocket wrote: »
    Wow, fair play, very brave of you. How did your hubby / partner take it? How is he with you now? Does he have a relationship with your kids?

    Possible the hardest words any person can say to themselves is "I'm Gay" he knew the last two years of our relationship and to be honest I'm not really that feminine,I still get the I'm not really gay crap from his family I'm led to believe and really the only relationship he has with his kids is 6 hours every 2nd Saturday (no financial help) others than that I do my best for my kids they're well adjusted and great fun to be around


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    #104
    wylam
    Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭wylam


    Yes the hetro couple have an -option- to get married if they choose , but will the father then have equal rights to the child as the mother? I know of some fathers who had to adopt their OWN children because their name wasn't put on the birth cert or their name was spelt wrong, but they subsequently married the child's mother.The laws in this country really need to be looked at and updated.But first we will have to wait for the people who are still living in the 1950's to come out of their shell and realise that we live in a modern society and our laws and attitude should reflect that.


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    #105
    Gorilla Rising
    Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭Gorilla Rising


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    both had suffered at the hands of dysfunctional heterosexual parents they decided they would prefer if a lesbian couple adopt.

    So they made their decision by judging every single possible heterosexual couple..and people seem to think this is OK?

    Obviously it's their choice who their child goes to, but this is exactly the kind of thinking we're trying to get passed with gay couples.


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    #106
    becost
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 328 ✭✭becost


    bhamsteve wrote: »

    Who gives a fcuk, we all have the right to chose who we have relationships with and should not have to justify it to anybody.

    Exactly, that's what I tell people who ask if i'm happy now that i'm married to a horse.

    I've said it before to friends and I'm completely serious that if gay couples want to raise kids, let them adopt the physically and mentally retarded ones that are left to rot in care homes. Kill two birds with one stone.

    Mod: Banned


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    #107
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    wylam wrote: »
    Yes the hetro couple have an -option- to get married if they choose , but will the father then have equal rights to the child as the mother? I know of some fathers who had to adopt their OWN children because their name wasn't put on the birth cert or their name was spelt wrong, but they subsequently married the child's mother.The laws in this country really need to be looked at and updated.But first we will have to wait for the people who are still living in the 1950's to come out of their shell and realise that we live in a modern society and our laws and attitude should reflect that.

    If the couple are married at the time of adoption both are recognised as equal parents in exactly the same way as they would be equal parents of any biological children.

    In the case of unmarried fathers (and my own son is one and currently fighting his way through the courts to get equal rights) the 1964 Guardianship of Children Act states that in the case of children born outside wedlock the mother is the sole guardian - father's name on birthcert means exactly nothing in legal terms.

    This, in effect means the biological father is legally considered a stranger to his children therefore legal steps must be taken to formalise and recognise the relationship. But if a Guardianship agreement was in place prior to marriage it really is just a formality.

    Now, originally this 1964 legislation was intended as a 'get out of fatherhood' clause ('Daddy' could walk away scot free and 'Mummy' was sent to work in the laundries as punishment for being a fallen woman) but an unintended consequence is that it discriminates against men by denying them a legal relationship with their children if they are not married to the mother. Ironically, what was intended as a 'pro' man piece of legislation has become an 'anti' man one.

    However, if the biological father has made no effort to have his relationship with his children legally recognised and the mother marries another man - her new husband can apply to adopt the children.

    This is another area in which gay couples are at a disadvantage due to not being able to marry - the 'non-biological' parent can not apply to adopt and become a 'co-parent' under any circumstances.


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    #108
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Madam_X wrote: »
    It's being asked would you want to have been adopted by a gay couple/would you be ok with your child being adopted by a gay couple. But the question is: do you think same-sex couples should be allowed to adopt? IMO, whatever my views are, they should. I cannot fathom not allowing someone to have the freedom to do somethng that doesn't affect me. If someone's child is being adopted and they don't want a gay couple adopting the child, fine, don't pick the gay couple... but other cases don't concern you.

    Re the bullying: nowadays children in Ireland are from a number of what were once deemed unconventional circumstances - single parent homes, raised by grandparents, far more ethnic diversity. And there are countless "reasons" for bullying. Children aren't automatically prejudiced - older children and adults make them that way.
    Why capitulate to bullying? Why not educate about difference first and foremost?

    Would you be ok with a peadophile adopting, since it doesn't affect you personally?


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    #109
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    fortune wookiee wrote: »
    So they made their decision by judging every single possible heterosexual couple..and people seem to think this is OK?

    Obviously it's their choice who their child goes to, but this is exactly the kind of thinking we're trying to get passed with gay couples.

    I was not party to their deliberations so I have no idea what their process was. All I know is that they told my friends that people had said to them they should not give their child to a gay couple but that personally they didn't think having heterosexual married parents was necessarily the best thing and just because they were heterosexual and married did not make people good parents and was evidenced by their own upbringing. They decided that having two mothers sounded pretty good.

    Of all the couples considered by the biological parents they believed the two lesbians were the best possible adoptive parents not just because they were lesbians but because of the stability of their relationship, their socio-economic background, their educational qualifications, their work ethic, their supportive extended family etc etc etc.

    They were the only couple who ticked all of the boxes - including, ironically, Catholicism.

    Social Services agreed.

    Some people would have excluded them from the whole process in the first place just because of their sexual orientation even though they were the ones who fit the criteria set down by the biological parents.


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    #110
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    jank wrote: »
    Would you be ok with a peadophile adopting, since it doesn't affect you personally?
    Best to compare like with like. Gay couple adoption is not paedophilia/abuse.


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    #111
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    I presume that the system is there to try and ascertain - as much is possible in these things - who is suitable and presents as the best possible parents for the child. Obviously there will be mistakes made. I don't see whats "naive" about thinking that.

    Yes, and many people would think that the best parents would make up a heterosexual couple, given all things are equal. Of course the person giving the baby away should have the right to choose as well.


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    #112
    Crann na Beatha
    Registered Users Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


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    #113
    Ms. Pingui
    Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ms. Pingui


    I was in the park the other day with sister and my daughter. As my daughter was playing a little girl approached her and asked if we were her two mummies!
    I think children can be far more accepting of these things than we realise. A child adopted by a gay couple have the same chance of being bullied as any other child.


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    #114
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Best to compare like with like. Gay couple adoption is not paedophilia/abuse.

    I never said it did!! But you clearly stated you would have no objection to it anyway or is that a u turn?


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    #115
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Phoenix wrote: »
    :eek:
    How the fcuk can you compare the two?

    Jezz relax for the record I am not comparing the two rather I am taking aim at a glib open remark made.


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    #116
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,715 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Lol at all the usual usernames tripping over themselves to post that unwanted babies should be allowed to be adoped by gays and lesbians.

    In other threads they are posting that they should be aborted on a whim.


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    #117
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    jank wrote: »
    Yes, and many people would think that the best parents would make up a heterosexual couple, given all things are equal. Of course the person giving the baby away should have the right to choose as well.

    They can make their wishes known and even categorically state who they wish to adopt - but their choice will still have to undergo all of the checks just like any other prospective adoptive parent(s). If they fail the checks it would be very hard for the 'chosen' individual/couple to adopt.

    No-one is saying gay couple have a 'right' to adopt. We are saying their sexual orientation should not automatically exclude them and they should be subject to the same checks as heterosexual couples.


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    #118
    1ZRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Lol at all the usual usernames tripping over themselves to post that unwanted babies should be allowed to be adoped by gays and lesbians.

    In another threads they are posting that they should be aborted on a whim.

    In fairness you've proven yourself to be a homophobe so doubt you've much power in calling anybody out on this


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    #119
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    jank wrote: »
    Jezz relax for the record I am not comparing the two rather I am taking aim at a glib open remark made.

    Now now, you're just engaging in a little pedantic wankery. It's not adding anything to the thread, it's just picking at one sentence so you can feel smug.


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    #120
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Yes, and many people would think that the best parents would make up a heterosexual couple, given all things are equal. Of course the person giving the baby away should have the right to choose as well.

    I'm not seeing a cohesive train of thought here. I stated that the child should go to - as far as can be ascertained - the couple best suited to raise it. You state thats naive, and when i clarify you come back with this "many people would think" thing......


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    #121
    gcgirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Lol at all the usual usernames tripping over themselves to post that unwanted babies should be allowed to be adoped by gays and lesbians.

    In other threads they are posting that they should be aborted on a whim.

    Facepalm

    Personally wouldn't force anyone to have a baby against their wishes


This discussion has been closed.
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