RTE & the property tax

alastair

SamHall wrote: »

Here is one of many links from this and other threads.



http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84188077&postcount=416

Disappointed in madcon for not defending me there.

Considering he thanked the post.

I'm not seeing any advocacy for property taxation based on others doing it though. Simply a query as to why it should be 'wrong' here but not in the UK(and beyond).

dxhound2005

Slick50 wrote: »

You can't seriously be trying to make out you haven't seen any other post, citing other countries having LPT's as justification for our introducing one. You've been championing this cause so long now, in enough threads, that you have to have seen them.

That's about as believable as DX telling us he hasn't seen Enda's qoute from 1994.

No, still don't know what that is about. Anyway I'm sure you and everyone else on the thread would like to join me in wishing the Taoiseach a very happy 62nd birthday today.

Phoebas

Revenue are reporting positive news on the LPT collection.

rte.ie wrote:

Revenue has sent out over 1.6 million property tax letters
Ms Feehily said she was ''pleased'' to report that Revenue had reached its target of issuing letters in respect of over 1.6 million properties for local property tax.
However, she admitted that not everyone who was liable to pay had received a letter. She estimated the numbers who failed to get a letter was "in the thousands".
But she stressed people who were liable and who had not received a letter had to contact Revenue and pay the tax.
She noted that the first LPT receipts have been credited to the Exchequer and, with over five weeks to go to the online filing deadline, more than 218,000 property tax returns have been received by Revenue.
Revenue will begin deducting estimates of property tax from payroll or social welfare payments of people who have refused to pay the charge at the end of June.
Self assessed tax payers who have not paid the property levy will be surcharged on their tax return from the October. That will have the effect of doubling the charge.
Ms Feehily described the reaction from the public to the tax as ''excellent''.

Ogham

Phoebas wrote: »

Revenue are reporting positive news on the LPT collection.

What's positive about a quarter of a million homes not even been sent a form. They still don't know where all the houses are !!

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/all-property-tax-letters-issued.html

Am Chile

Phoebas wrote: »

Revenue are reporting positive news on the LPT collection.

I see the liable number of properties is once again played down-no mention regarding the returns if people opted to pay or opted for a deferral- also bear in mind the 100.000 council properties liable this year unlike last year-no mention either if the returns have being made by councils liable for the tax or landlords with multiple properties or single property owners.

donegal_road

dxhound2005 wrote: »

No, still don't know what that is about. Anyway I'm sure you and everyone else on the thread would like to join me in wishing the Taoiseach a very happy 62nd birthday today.

62? wow he is weathering well for a man under that level of pressure.

Anyways, back to the business of that quote people keep referring to.
It is on record that Enda Kenny said the following in the Dail, 1994... (full quote)

"It is absurd that the Government, which has at its disposal the best experts and accountancy mechanisms in the land, can say that only an additional 12,000 will enter the property tax net. Surely it is obvious that this figure will be exceeded in the Dublin area. In general, the perception is that country people are against concessions being granted to Dublin but all Irish people believe that a man's house is his castle. It is morally unjust and unfair to tax a person's home, and by so doing grind him into the ground. Indeed in cases it could probably be unconstitutional. A person owning a detached or semi-detached house in Portmarnock, Malahide, Sutton, Howth, Raheny, Clontarf and most areas south of the Liffey will probably end up in the residential property tax bracket. It is absurd for the Government to say that only an additional 12,000 will be caught in the net. Does this mean that the Government has quietly told the Revenue Commissioners to note what assessment people put on their home and then to go after them? I think this tax was concocted at the midnight hour. It reminds me of a vampire tax in that it drives a stake through the heart of home ownership, through enthusiasm and initiative, and sucks the life blood of people who want to own their own home and better their position. If the Government fail to appreciate the passion with which people will defend their rights to own their home and have it looking as well as it should, it is making a serious mistake. Residential property tax is the one issue in the budget causing great anxiety to those who come within its thresholds. It is also causing great stress to those on the verge of the thresholds who fear they will be sucked into the net next year."

Here is the source from the Oireachtas website

It is a bit of a U-turn for him to have to make, but thats politics I suppose.

Phoebas

donegal_road wrote: »

It is a bit of a U-turn for him to have to make, but thats politics I suppose.

Bloody hell - that quote is almost 20 years old:eek:

Perhaps he had a change of heart in proceeding twenty years:rolleyes:

That the first time I've seen the full quote with the qualification. That's usually left off.

Phoebas

Am Chile wrote: »

I see the liable number of properties is once again played down-no mention regarding the returns if people opted to pay or opted for a deferral- also bear in mind the 100.000 council properties liable this year unlike last year-no mention either if the returns have being made by councils liable for the tax or landlords with multiple properties or single property owners.

The article I posted makes no mention of the total number of liable properties. It only makes reference to the Revenue target. It puts the lie to anyone who suggested that they couldn't put a database together - they obviously have some kind of a database with over 1.6m records.

Of course, this is still a self assessment tax, so the onus is still on the tax payer to make a return even if they aren't identified by the Revenue.

Banjo String

Phoebas wrote: »

The article I posted makes no mention of the total number of liable properties. It only makes reference to the Revenue target. It puts the lie to anyone who suggested that they couldn't put a database together - they obviously have some kind of a database with over 1.6m records.

Of course, this is still a self assessment tax, so the onus is still on the tax payer to make a return even if they aren't identified by the Revenue.

That 'some kind of database' is indeed some kind of database.

Dead people. Children. Tenant's all getting lpt letters not to mention the soldier whose apparently liable for his whole barracks.







Quaking I am. .

Phoebas

SamHall wrote: »

Quaking I am. .

But I thought you got your letter? They have you in the net.

Banjo String

Phoebas wrote: »

But I thought you got your letter? They have you in the net.

I did get a letter you're right.

I lit the stove with it.

Phoebas

SamHall wrote: »

I did get a letter you're right.

That's what I thought.
So none of the problems you mentioned with the Revenue database affect you at all. They've got you already so lighting the stove with the letter wont make a blind bit of difference.
Here's whats in store for you:

rte.ie wrote:

Revenue will begin deducting estimates of property tax from payroll or social welfare payments of people who have refused to pay the charge at the end of June.
Self assessed tax payers who have not paid the property levy will be surcharged on their tax return from the October. That will have the effect of doubling the charge.

And if the Revenue assessment for your house is higher than your own, you really would be shooting yourself in the foot.

SamHall

SamHall wrote: »

That 'some kind of database' is indeed some kind of database. Dead people. Children. Tenant's all getting lpt letters not to mention the soldier whose apparently liable for his whole barracks. Quaking I am. .

My uncle got one and he's dead. He registered for the Household Charge and passed away in the meantime, so, yes, some ARE being sent to dead people! I read also about 2 students who got them, but, guess what? They were manning the pickets for the CAHWT, so I wouldn't take much notice of them!

Banjo String

Phoebas wrote: »

That's what I thought.
So none of the problems you mentioned with the Revenue database affect you at all. They've got you already so lighting the stove with the letter wont make a blind bit of difference.
Here's whats in store for you:

Could not give a monkeys. The oinly reason/explanation I can see that they have my details linked to this property was when I registered online for self assesment back in 2010.

They've linked my name to this property, thats all. The mortgage gets deducted from my OH's account, and we own the house jointly, so to try and tell me they got that far by some excellent PS ground work is absolute bluster tbh.

Phoebas wrote: »

And if the Revenue assessment for your house is higher than your own, you really would be shooting yourself in the foot.

It was indeed higher than the value given on their site.

Intentionally I believe...... Hoping I contact them to dispute it, thus verifying I own the property, and assuming I will pay a tax on something I already paid tax on at point of sale.

Yes, they may forcibly steal it from me, they may however not.

|Regarless if they do or do not,It will take them time, and when/if they do, fair play to revenue. I hope they are proud of hunting down the middle class homeowners, while the billionaire elite knowingly keep/hide billions from them,

Revenue chairwoman Josephine Feehily has left citizens in no doubt whatsoever about how her organisation will deal with anybody who is tempted to dodge the upcoming property tax.

Revenue will ruthlessly bring to bear the full arsenal of laws at its disposal to enforce the new tax.

If necessary Revenue will deduct the tax directly from the salary, pension or bank accounts of those who fail to co-operate.

People can only judge for themselves Revenue’s record for pursuing people…We have very extensive data. We will pursue. We’ve done it in the past.

Well I’d like to accept Ms. Feehily’s invitation and judge her organisation’s record of pursuing people.

A report in last Sunday’s Independent reveals that not one person has been prosecuted over the Ansbacher tax criminality.

Ms. Feehily extends three excuses for her organisation’s disgraceful failure in bringing the Ansbacher white-collar criminals to account.

Excuse one: A lack of original documentation.

An essential requirement for a successful criminal prosecution is original documents. There were very few original documents available and there was no legal mechanism to compel Caymen entities to produce such documents.

This excuse is, of course, bull****. There is a mountain of good quality evidence available to Revenue if it had a mind to prosecute.

The reason this good quality evidence has never been used is simple – it would most likely result in damaging the interests of very influential and powerful people.

Excuse two: Time elapsed has made prosecutions impossible.

Ms. Feehily:

While many cases passed the serious evasion test to be considered for prosecution, the time elapsed – typically in excess of 10 years since the alleged offence occurred – meant it would not be possible to mount a successful prosecution.

Ms. Feehily’s admission that many cases passed the serious evasion test for prosecution directly contradicts her first excuse re original documents.

The ‘time lapsed’ excuse is the most powerful strategy employed by state agencies when it comes to protecting influential and powerful people.

It is no accident, in my opinion, that almost every major white-collar scandal is strung out over many years in order to benefit from the ‘time lapse’ excuse.

Excuse three: Some of the criminals were too old or too dead.

Being too old will not be accepted as an excuse by Revenue for failing to pay the property tax. This excuse is strictly reserved for influential and powerful people.

Neither will death be accepted as an excuse. If an ordinary citizen undervalues his property and the property is sold on after his death the tax due, with interest, will be extracted from the new owners.

Influential and powerful people are exempt from such exacting laws. For example, when the criminal politician Haughey died his wealth was passed on to his family with no response from Revenue.

In functional democracies such ill-gotten wealth is heavily taxed or even seized outright.

Returning to Ms. Feehily’s invitation to people to judge Revenue’s record of pursuing people I think the following sums up what most ordinary people think.

The very fact that so called law enforcement agencies like Revenue and the Financial Regulator are incapable or unwilling to enforce the law when dealing with white-collar crime but are more than efficient in enforcing the law against ordinary citizens suggests that there is indeed one law for the rich and another for the peasants.

I also hope FG think the hundreds of thousands of lost votes over this was worth it in the long run.

I'm prepared to take my chances though, just like alastair did during the poll tax, I'm not gouing to willingly pay a tax I vehemently oppose.

I really cannot be any clearer than that.

Banjo String

Deleted User wrote: »

My uncle got one and he's dead. He registered for the Household Charge and passed away in the meantime, so, yes, some ARE being sent to dead people! I read also about 2 students who got them, but, guess what? They were manning the pickets for the CAHWT, so I wouldn't take much notice of them!

So your uncle is dead a year or there abouts?

How do you explain the letters sent to people that have been dead for years?

I have a tiny inkling they never registered for the HHC.

Phoebas

SamHall wrote: »

How do you explain the letters sent to people that have been dead for years?

They obviously didn't bother their arse to tell the Revenue that they had died.

Banjo String

Phoebas wrote: »

They obviously didn't bother their arse to tell the Revenue that they had died.

Those thoughtless Arse holes.

alastair

SamHall wrote: »

|Regarless if they do or do not,It will take them time, and when/if they do, fair play to revenue. I hope they are proud of hunting down the middle class homeowners, while the billionaire elite knowingly keep/hide billions from them, I also hope FG think the hundreds of thousands of lost votes over this was worth it in the long run.

It'll take them precious little effort to take the money at source, but I'm sure the accrued penalties will more than compensate. I'm also sure that FG understand, like most of us, that votes are unlikely to be lost to FF - who introduced the property tax in the first place, or Labour, who support property taxation quite openly, or to SF, who (aside from not being the most FG transfer-friendly), aren't exactly a policy-reliable option. Property tax is here to stay for the foreseeable.

Banjo String

alastair wrote: »

It'll take them precious little effort to take the money at source, but I'm sure the accrued penalties will more than compensate. I'm also sure that FG understand, like most of us, that votes are unlikely to be lost to FF - who introduced the property tax in the first place, or Labour, who support property taxation quite openly, or to SF, who (aside from not being the most FG transfer-friendly), aren't exactly a policy-reliable option. Property tax is here to stay for the foreseeable.

Interesting that FF are reported to now be the biggest party in the state again. Long time generations voters ate beginning to slowly return to their oldv faithful. I wouldn't be so smug if I were FG at the present time.


You're lucky such technology didn't exist during your anarchic poll tax days.

Did you think of any answers Il to the question I've put to you now several times?

bgrizzley

alastair wrote: »

Except that those quotes from my post say no such thing. If you can't see that, there's not much more to be said.

true, if you cant back up your own posts then you may as well stay quiet;)

alastair

SamHall wrote: »

Interesting that FF are reported to now be the biggest party in the state again. Long time generations voters ate beginning to slowly return to their oldv faithful. I wouldn't be so smug if I were FG at the present time.


You're lucky such technology didn't exist during your anarchic poll tax days.

Did you think of any answers Il to the question I've put to you now several times?

You think FG are smug? The 'old faithful' will carry the millstone of ****ing over a decade of growth in this country, so I wouldn't be so quick about championing their return - plus you seemed to omit that small factor of their actually introducing this nefarious property tax.

I thought you'd gone off in a huff because you didn't like me pointing out why your tax evasion fantasy really has very little in common with the poll tax protest? little tantrum over then?

alastair

bgrizzley wrote: »

true, if you cant back up your own posts then you may as well stay quiet;)

Oscar Wilde, is that you?

Banjo String

alastair wrote: »

You think FG are smug? The 'old faithful' will carry the millstone of ****ing over a decade of growth in this country, so I wouldn't be so quick about championing their return - plus you seemed to omit that small factor of their actually introducing this nefarious property tax.

I thought you'd gone off in a huff because you didn't like me pointing out why your tax evasion fantasy really has very little in common with the poll tax protest? little tantrum over then?

In fairness I've never voted FF in my life but m struggling to see what FG are doing differently tbh?

If anyone is 'huffing' it's you and your blatant refusal to answer these simple questions.

Once again I would like to ask him.
His reason for not paying it.?

Did he think his actions were unlawful at the time?

Does he see any similarities in the tax he claimed to be unfair in the UK and the one many of us will not pay here?

Take your time.

gowley

alastair wrote: »

Oscar Wilde, is that you?

no phil hogan its not

alastair

SamHall wrote: »

If anyone is 'huffing' it's you and your blatant refusal to answer these simple questions.

Once again I would like to ask him.
His reason for not paying it.?

Did he think his actions were unlawful at the time?

Does he see any similarities in the tax he claimed to be unfair in the UK and the one many of us will not pay here?

Take your time.

You'll be waiting. None of your business tbh.

alastair

gowley wrote: »

no phil hogan its not

You're about as proficient on ignoring posts as you are on grasping tax distribution.

Phoebas

gowley wrote: »

i think you should all ignore this thread now.

*Urges everyone to ignore the thread*

*Keeps coming back*

Le_Dieux

alastair wrote: »

The property tax goes 100% to funding local authority services. That's precisely zilch going to bond holders etc.

I;m not going to get into an argument with a government troll.

HOWEVER, do I not recall someone ( Your mate Jimmy Reilly I think) saying that 60% of the monies collected will be used for local projects..NOT the lot.

I'm just home from work so am a bit bolloxxed, otherwise I would search for what one of your stooges/thieves in power said.

On 2nd thoughts, I think it wasn't JR, but more like Mick Noonan or BFP.

Le_Dieux

alastair wrote: »

Why not check your local authority website for a nice comprehensive list of the services they provide? They won't send you a list, so try a little initiative yourself.

Alister, would You do us a favour and ask that nimcompoop madcon to either make a statement or STF up...

Surely there is something in the Boards Charter about this clowns actions?

Le_Dieux

SamHall wrote: »

Here is one of many links from this and other threads.



http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84188077&postcount=416

Disappointed in madcon for not defending me there.

Considering he thanked the post.

Sam, expect nothing from madcon...only thing he/she comments on is basketball!