RTE & the property tax

Slick50

gowley wrote: »

ahhh no why would you encourage him. just ignore the government spin doctor and stop giving him a platform to promote his agenda. everyone else has had the sense to ignore him for the last few hours

Alastair, or DX?

gowley

Slick50 wrote: »

Alastair, or DX?

lol. alastair please dont anyone give him a platform look back at his posts he has an agenda and nothing else to do but monitor what is being said on public forums.

darkhorse

alastair wrote: »

The revenue isn't generally known for it's lack of persistence.

I guess that's a matter of opinion.

Public Inquiry · Revenue judgement: Only efficient when dealing ...

Banjo String

[QUOTE=alastair;84294583


It's your proposition - why would I look for something that I know isn't actually the case?[/QUOTE]

Here is where you asked for a link.

Links shouldn't be too difficult for you then?

Tell me more about your poll tax fight though.

Why didn't you pay/under what grounds?

Did you knowingly act in an unlawful manner at the time by not complying with it.

Do you think you're being hypocritical on this thread by not being understanding of like minded people like yourself who are prepared to make a stand against a tax they disagree with? (I'm sure many in the UK supported the poll tax too)

Let's get this debate started Alastair. I'm finding your attempt at distancing yourself from similarly minded people amusing tbh.

alastair

gowley wrote: »

lol. alastair please dont anyone give him a platform look back at his posts he has an agenda and nothing else to do but monitor what is being said on public forums.

I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how this whole discussion thing works. I clearly have a different opinion to you, but that's the extent of my 'agenda'. If you can't take the heat of disagreement, or don't like facts that run counter to your views, then discourse isn't for you.

alastair

SamHall wrote: »

Here is where you asked for a link.



Tell me more about your poll tax fight though.

Why didn't you pay/under what grounds?

Did you knowingly act in an unlawful manner at the time by not complying with it.

Do you think you're being hypocritical on this thread by not being understanding of like minded people like yourself who are prepared to make a stand against a tax they disagree with? (I'm sure many in the UK supported the poll tax too)

Let's get this debate started Alastair. I'm finding your attempt at distancing yourself from similarly minded people amusing tbh.

There's nothing similar in your attitude to payment of taxes and mine. I paid my property taxes (council charge) without any quibble. I'm not pretending that I will avoid paying my taxes because of the impending arrival of some fantasy anti-property tax government. I'm not pretending that one tax should somehow substitute for another.

And you won't link to posts claiming we should have a property tax because other states do, because no-one actually made that claim. All your evasion amounts to acknowledgement that your claim is so much hot air.

Banjo String

alastair wrote: »

There's nothing similar in your attitude to payment of taxes and mine. I paid my property taxes (council charge) without any quibble. I'm not pretending that I will avoid paying my taxes because of the impending arrival of some fantasy anti-property tax government. I'm not pretending that one tax should somehow substitute for another.

And you won't link to posts claiming we should have a property tax because other states do, because no-one actually made that claim. All your evasion amounts to acknowledgement that your claim is so much hot air.

Are you now claiming you paid the poll tax?

Back tracking?

alastair

SamHall wrote: »

Are you now claiming you paid the poll tax?

Back tracking?

The council charge isn't the poll tax. The poll tax was the 'community charge'.

Banjo String

alastair wrote: »

The council charge isn't the poll tax. The poll tax was the 'community charge'.

Grand.

That's that cleared up


So you actively protested against the poll tax, by not paying it?

alastair

SamHall wrote: »

Grand.

That's that cleared up


So you actively protested against the poll tax, by not paying it?

Once again:

There's nothing similar in your attitude to payment of taxes and mine. I paid my property taxes (council charge) without any quibble. I'm not pretending that I will avoid paying my taxes because of the impending arrival of some fantasy anti-property tax government. I'm not pretending that one tax should somehow substitute for another.

mikom

alastair wrote: »

The council charge isn't the poll tax. The poll tax was the 'community charge'.

said the non paying protester........

Banjo String

alastair wrote: »

Once again:

Not even trying to justify hypocrisy at its highest.

Bye bye Alistair.

bgrizzley

alastair wrote: »

And you won't link to posts claiming we should have a property tax because other states do, because no-one actually made that claim. All your evasion amounts to acknowledgement that your claim is so much hot air.

It's no accident that every other nation has figured out that property taxation is an essential component of a country's sustainable revenue stream.

---

What we'll get out of this is a level of taxation that looks pretty much like other european countries

---

and they are just your own...:rolleyes:

inb4 pedant

alastair

mikom wrote: »

said the non paying protester........

Like I said - I fully expected to have to pay the poll tax with late payment penalties. If you're playing the 'I won't have to pay' game - that's a different and deluded story.

But then you already knew this.

alastair

bgrizzley wrote: »

It's no accident that every other nation has figured out that property taxation is an essential component of a country's sustainable revenue stream.

---

What we'll get out of this is a level of taxation that looks pretty much like other european countries

---

and they are just your own...:rolleyes:

inb4 pedant

I'm not sure what you think you've done there, but it's not links to me (or anyone else) claiming the merit of taxation is related to some other state applying it.

TheSpecialOne

Love the way the Government and it's supporters laud the fact others have it so we must! How come they don't follow other countries with regards to free childcare, pay in office or just pay in general which seems to be insanely bloated in this nation. They don't mind screwing the average joe over and use other nations as an example, but when it comes to them and comparisons to their pay etc...they just brush it off.

hoopla87

i hate all this lark people are coming out with about other nations paying property tax. YES they do BUT theyre property tax funds actual services unlike our 'property tax' which is simply being used to fund money gambled away by bondholders. they took the risk and we shouldnt be funding it through what is essentially a tax on living. Yes tax on living, my property already paid its tax when it was bought! also some peole think it can come out of dole payments. in the booklet issued on the tax jobseekers payments are not subject to deduction of this theft. However, disability allowance and carers allowance is. dispicable

bgrizzley

alastair wrote: »

I'm not sure what you think you've done there, but it's not links to me (or anyone else) claiming the merit of taxation is related to some other state applying it.

i think you missed the pedant bit at the end...

2/10 for trolling:(

alastair

hoopla87 wrote: »

i hate all this lark people are coming out with about other nations paying property tax. YES they do BUT theyre property tax funds actual services unlike our 'property tax' which is simply being used to fund money gambled away by bondholders. they took the risk and we shouldnt be funding it through what is essentially a tax on living.

The property tax goes 100% to funding local authority services. That's precisely zilch going to bond holders etc.

alastair

bgrizzley wrote: »

i think you missed the pedant bit at the end...

2/10 for trolling:(

Maybe you'd have been better off just not presenting quotes entirely out of context? Just a thought.

hoopla87

alastair wrote: »

The property tax goes 100% to funding local authority services. That's precisely zilch going to bond holders etc.

do you beleive in fairies too???
maybe youre the one person in the country who actually got services out of the household charge so? what services did they provide for you?? cos i got nothing just like every other year and its the same for everyone else i know and if you think thats going to change your very wrong. if they sent me a list of services they were going to provide that i didnt have to pay for independently anymore i wouldnt have a problem with paying.

bgrizzley

alastair wrote: »

Maybe you'd have been better off just not presenting quotes entirely out of context? Just a thought.

maybe i'd be better off agreeing with you even though you are wrong...

Banjo String

For clarity.

Here is what Alastair refused to pay in the UK.

This tax.....

The Community Charge was a poll tax to fund local government in the United Kingdom, instituted in 1989 by the government of Margaret Thatcher. It replaced the rates that were based on the notional rental value of a house. The abolition of rates was in the manifesto of Thatcher's Conservative Party in the 1979 general election, and the replacement was proposed in the Green Paper of 1986, Paying for Local Government based on ideas developed by Dr Madsen Pirie and Douglas Mason of the Adam Smith Institute. It was a fixed tax per adult resident, but there was a reduction for those with lower household income. Each person was to pay for the services provided in their community. This proposal was contained in the Conservative Manifesto for the 1987 General Election. The new tax replaced the rates in Scotland from the start of the 1989/90 financial year, and in England and Wales from the start of the 1990/91 financial year.
The system was deeply unpopular. It was perceived to shift the tax burden from rich to poor, as it was based on the number of people living in a house rather than its estimated price. Many tax rates set by local councils proved to be much higher than earlier predictions, leading to resentment even among people who had supported it. The tax in different boroughs differed dramatically because local taxes paid by businesses varied and grants by central government to local authorities sometimes varied capriciously.
Mass protests were called by the All-Britain Anti-Poll Tax Federation, with which the vast majority of local Anti Poll Tax Unions (APTUs) were affiliated. In Scotland the APTUs called for mass non-payment and these calls rapidly gathered widespread support which spread to England and Wales, even though non-payment meant that people could be prosecuted. In some areas, 30% of former ratepayers defaulted. While owner-occupiers were easy to tax, those who regularly changed accommodation were almost impossible to pursue if they chose not to pay. The cost of collecting the tax rose steeply while the returns from it fell. Enforcement measures became increasingly draconian, and unrest grew and culminated in a number of Poll Tax Riots. The most serious was in a protest at Trafalgar Square, London, on 31 March 1990, of more than 200,000 protesters. A Labour MP, Terry Fields, was jailed for 60 days for refusing to pay his poll tax.
This unrest was instrumental in toppling Margaret Thatcher in 1990. Her replacement, John Major, replaced the Community Charge with the Council Tax, similar to the rating system that preceded the Poll Tax. The main differences were that it was levied on capital value rather than notional rental value of a property, and that it had a 25% discount for single-occupancy dwellings.

Which in his eyes is in no way whatsoever similar to the hundreds of thousands who refused to pay the HHC, and most likely (hopefully) will go on to ignore revenues demands to pay the LPT.

Once again I would like to ask him.

His reason for not paying it.?

Did he think his actions were unlawful at the time?

Does he see any similarities in the tax he claimed to be unfair in the UK and the one many of us will not pay here?


Kettle, meet my friend pt, aka black arse. :cool:

bgrizzley

SamHall wrote: »

For clarity.

Here is what Alastair refused to pay in the UK.

This tax.....



Which in his eyes is in no way whatsoever similar to the hundreds of thousands who refused to pay the HHC, and most likely (hopefully) will go on to ignore revenues demands to pay the LPT.

Once again I would like to ask him.

His reason for not paying it.?

Did he think his actions were unlawful at the time?

Does he see any similarities in the tax he claimed to be unfair in the UK and the one many of us will not pay here?


Kettle, meet my friend pt, aka black arse. :cool:

i dont think it took into account ability to pay, maybe thats why he opposed it...

its all very confusing why he supports one and opposed the other

Banjo String

bgrizzley wrote: »

i dont think it took into account ability to pay, maybe thats why he opposed it...

its all very confusing why he supports one and opposed the other

Don't forget the poll tax came with services such as health and education.

Our lpt comes with sfa.

Bizarre.

alastair

hoopla87 wrote: »

do you beleive in fairies too???
maybe youre the one person in the country who actually got services out of the household charge so? what services did they provide for you?? cos i got nothing just like every other year and its the same for everyone else i know and if you think thats going to change your very wrong. if they sent me a list of services they were going to provide that i didnt have to pay for independently anymore i wouldnt have a problem with paying.

Why not check your local authority website for a nice comprehensive list of the services they provide? They won't send you a list, so try a little initiative yourself.

alastair

bgrizzley wrote: »

maybe i'd be better off agreeing with you even though you are wrong...

Still no links to support your case?

bgrizzley

alastair wrote: »

Still no links to support your case?

As you well know, there are too many links for that specific claim to post them all. Though absurdly weak, it has been the main tenet of the pro-hometaxes argument. (Would you join the war in Afganistan just cause the UK did?)

the ones above are yours, im sure you have said it plenty more times, but as it looks like you are on a wind up today, im not wasting too much time on it beyond a cursory search.
check your own post history.;)

Banjo String

Here is one of many links from this and other threads.

why if it is okay for tax-payers in every other OECD economy to pay taxes based on property it is "wrong" for us to do so here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84188077&postcount=416

Disappointed in madcon for not defending me there.

Considering he thanked the post.

alastair

bgrizzley wrote: »

As you well know, there are too many links for that specific claim to post them all. Though absurdly weak, it has been the main tenet of the pro-hometaxes argument. (Would you join the war in Afganistan just cause the UK did?)

the ones above are yours, im sure you have said it plenty more times, but as it looks like you are on a wind up today, im not wasting too much time on it beyond a cursory search.
check your own post history.;)

Except that those quotes from my post say no such thing. If you can't see that, there's not much more to be said.