Study of Radicalisation - 26 Irish Jihadis Fought in Syria

Norwesterner

Nodin wrote: »

More bluster wayne. Why not answer some questions on what you've spouted so far?

You still haven't explained your 'field research' of the attendees of a mosque that has yet to be built.

Have you found any proof that any have come back and spread "militant Islam" as you claimed?

Yes.
Several fought in Libya...recruited in Ireland and within months moved their Jihad to Syria.
That's "spreading".
Where will it be after Syria??
Lebanon? Jordan? Mali? Europe?
Who knows?
It's a global movement with a global aim. Of course their strategy is "to spread".

Norwesterner

Gyalist wrote: »

Will the Irish citizens who have served in the Israeli Defence Force be arrested too, or is this fate only reserved for "jihadis".

If they are Irish citizens they should have their passports revoked.
Ditto the British Army.

Death and Taxes

Norwesterner wrote: »

If they are Irish citizens they should have their passports revoked.
Ditto the British Army.

Petty rubbish

laoch na mona

i wish we raised a frank ryan style column to fight in Syria i'd be very tempted to join

Norwesterner

laoch na mona wrote: »

i wish we raised a frank ryan style column to fight in Syria i'd be very tempted to join

Seems you're free you round up fighters to go to Syria to attack minorites...
but try rustling up a posse to defend Christians and other minorities in Syria and the Special Branch will be at your door.

Nodin

Norwesterner wrote: »

Yes.
Several fought in Libya...recruited in Ireland and within months moved their Jihad to Syria.
That's "spreading".
..........

We know some fought in Libya (fair play to them) and we know some are fighting in Syria (fair play to them). This says nothing about spreading "militant Islam" here.

Norwesterner

Nodin wrote: »

We know some fought in Libya (fair play to them) and we know some are fighting in Syria (fair play to them). This says nothing about spreading "militant Islam" here.

How comfortable to sit in Ireland and say "Fair play to Jihadis" when it's not your local Church being ransacked, not your family member being kidnapped based on their religion, not your country being destroyed by foreigners intent on sectarian bloodshed.
You support NATO backed sectarian death squads. Take a bow.
No doubt had you been about in the 80's you'd have supported the Contra rebels as well.
Media shilled for them initially as well.

Hope the SAA send everyone of these fascists home in a box.
They're the good Muslims in this conflict.

Incidentally, THEY themselves have said their aim is to spread a Salafist form of Islam and create an Islamic caliphate from Chechnya to North Africa and even retaking Al Andalus (Spain)

Nodin

Norwesterner wrote: »

How comfortable to sit in Ireland and say "Fair play to Jihadis".......

Nobody has established that these people are in fact part of extreme jihadist groups.

SeanW

Nodin wrote: »

Nobody has established that these people are in fact part of extreme jihadist groups.

Frankly I doubt that you would care either way.

Grand Moff Tarkin

Norwesterner wrote: »

If they are Irish citizens they should have their passports revoked.
Ditto the British Army.

Hold on a second are you saying if an Irish person is currently severing in the British army they should have their passport revoked?

token101

SeanW wrote: »

Why do you ask? I very much get the feeling that if he did (have proof) you wouldn't care. So why even bother to ask?

Say each and every one of these 26 guys is actually a terrorist and is genuinely looking for people to go around blowing themselves, would it even come close to the numbers in the Limerick/Dublin/Cork gangs? Or the numbers in the IRA? It's fantastical stuff. What these guys are known to be doing is fighting a despot; that's it. If some Irish citizen pops up on the news as the new head of some Al Qaeda style group, then decides to return home to Ireland and set up a school for Wahhabism in Ballybunion, then we'll have some cause for concern. But until then, it's just a hilarious moral panic.

Norwesterner

token101 wrote: »

Say each and every one of these 26 guys is actually a terrorist and is genuinely looking for people to go around blowing themselves, would it even come close to the numbers in the Limerick/Dublin/Cork gangs? Or the numbers in the IRA? It's fantastical stuff. What these guys are known to be doing is fighting a despot; that's it. If some Irish citizen pops up on the news as the new head of some Al Qaeda style group, then decides to return home to Ireland and set up a school for Wahhabism in Ballybunion, then we'll have some cause for concern. But until then, it's just a hilarious moral panic.

Shure we'll be grand.
As long as they're only killing minorities in Syria, shure who cares?

The "despot" by the way received almost 9 million Syrian votes in 2010.
The E.U recognised FSA "Prime Minister" was elected after receiving 35 votes in a private meeting.

Nodin

Norwesterner wrote: »

Shure we'll be grand.
As long as they're only killing minorities in Syria, shure who cares?

Do we know that any of the 26 are involved in "killing minorities"?

Norwesterner

Nodin wrote: »

Do we know that any of the 26 are involved in "killing minorities"?

I don't know if they were personally involved but they are inextricably linked to the conspiracy.
We do know the vast majority of Syrian people have rejected them and don't want them meddling in their affairs.
Would you support Jihadis leaving Ireland to fight in Mali, Yemen, Afghanistan, Algeria, Nigeria, Iraq, Chechnya, Thailand, Somalia...
If not, why not?
They all fight under the same black Islamic flag and share the same aim.

is it because it's safe, acceptable and trendy to support Jihadis in Syria,but uncool to support the same mob (their cousins) across the border in Iraq.

Nodin

Norwesterner wrote: »

I don't know if they were personally involved but they are inextricably linked to the conspiracy..

Rrrreally.

That'd be a "no" then.

Norwesterner wrote: »

We do know the vast majority of Syrian people have rejected them and don't want them meddling in their affairs...

We do?

Norwesterner wrote: »

Would you support Jihadis leaving Ireland to fight in Mali, Yemen, Afghanistan, Algeria, Nigeria, Iraq, Chechnya, Thailand, Somalia...
If not, why not?
They all fight under the same black Islamic flag and share the same aim.
..

You're presuming their all part of some al qaeda styled ideology again.

Norwesterner wrote: »

is it because it's safe, acceptable and trendy to support Jihadis in Syria,but uncool to support the same mob (their cousins) across the border in Iraq.

Yep. I'm desperate to be down with the young folk. Maybe pull a young one thats into trendy oul fellahs.

token101

Norwesterner wrote: »

I don't know if they were personally involved but they are inextricably linked to the conspiracy.
We do know the vast majority of Syrian people have rejected them and don't want them meddling in their affairs.
Would you support Jihadis leaving Ireland to fight in Mali, Yemen, Afghanistan, Algeria, Nigeria, Iraq, Chechnya, Thailand, Somalia...
If not, why not?
They all fight under the same black Islamic flag and share the same aim.

is it because it's safe, acceptable and trendy to support Jihadis in Syria,but uncool to support the same mob (their cousins) across the border in Iraq.

Inextricably linked. Really? Can I see the proof?
I don't know any Syrians so I have no idea whether they want 'jihadis' there or not. But I'd imagine since the FSA are the only ones making an attempt at defending places like Homs, they have some support. And since you have no idea what these Irish people are doing there, how could you possibly know?

You've just lumped lots of different places together that have conflicts that are loosely based on Islam. If, hypothetically, Irish Venezuelans made their way back to Caracas and began fighting the Venezuelan regime when Chavez was around, far more of a democrat than Assad could dream to be, would you worry about them returning radicalised? Doubtful. I know little about Thailand, etc but from the very brief reading I've done on it, Chechnya is as much about Russian aggression in places like Grozny as it is about religion. Would I support Irish citizens going there to fight the Russians? Well, if the Irish Army marched into Cork tomorrow morning and just started blowing **** up for no reason and going house to house murdering people for little reason and with complete impunity, I'd imagine I'd probably make my way back from Australia to want to try and do something.

By the way, out of interest, what exactly is your solution to all of this? Based on the admission that you know about as much as me why these guys are in Syria, what would be your solution? Wouldn't be stripping them of their citizenship and deporting them by any chance would it?

SeanW

token101 wrote: »

Say each and every one of these 26 guys is actually a terrorist and is genuinely looking for people to go around blowing themselves, would it even come close to the numbers in the Limerick/Dublin/Cork gangs?

Gee, I thought the gangs were just trying to get rich on the black market, i.e. not to take over the country for some totalitarian foreign ideology, and to kill as many people as possible while doing it?

I have no doubt that the gangsters are bottom-feeding vermin but one of us has a loose grip on the potential for a threat.

It's fantastical stuff. What these guys are known to be doing is fighting a despot; that's it.

Accepted, for my part if they're just going there to help the Syrian people (all of them, regardless of religion etc) to overthrow a horrible dictator that's honourable IMO just as Irishmen went to fight the Nazis in WWII.

If some Irish citizen pops up on the news as the new head of some Al Qaeda style group, then decides to return home to Ireland and set up a school for Wahhabism in Ballybunion, then we'll have some cause for concern. But until then, it's just a hilarious moral panic.

In that case, the multi-culti left would probably accuse the reporters of being "racist" and "relying on lazy stereotypes"

BTW we already have Wahabbist schools in the U.K. and possibly Ireland as well, and the general consensus that I've got from Nodin and a few others is ...

Nodin, a few other wrote:

*yawns* I'd rather be bashing Israel. And you're a right wing fearmonger.

So again I want to know: what difference does it make whether these people are religious nutcases or not since, according to you, it wouldn't be a matter for concern either way.

Nodin

SeanW wrote: »

.........
So again I want to know: what difference does it make whether these people are religious nutcases or not since, according to you, it wouldn't be a matter for concern either way.

It would only be a matter of concern if they were doing something that would be detrimental to this state, or those abroad. So far all we've had in this thread are wild accusations and crap, however.

Norwesterner

token101 wrote: »

Inextricably linked. Really? Can I see the proof?
I don't know any Syrians so I have no idea whether they want 'jihadis' there or not. But I'd imagine since the FSA are the only ones making an attempt at defending places like Homs, they have some support. And since you have no idea what these Irish people are doing there, how could you possibly know?

You've just lumped lots of different places together that have conflicts that are loosely based on Islam. If, hypothetically, Irish Venezuelans made their way back to Caracas and began fighting the Venezuelan regime when Chavez was around, far more of a democrat than Assad could dream to be, would you worry about them returning radicalised? Doubtful. I know little about Thailand, etc but from the very brief reading I've done on it, Chechnya is as much about Russian aggression in places like Grozny as it is about religion. Would I support Irish citizens going there to fight the Russians? Well, if the Irish Army marched into Cork tomorrow morning and just started blowing **** up for no reason and going house to house murdering people for little reason and with complete impunity, I'd imagine I'd probably make my way back from Australia to want to try and do something.

By the way, out of interest, what exactly is your solution to all of this? Based on the admission that you know about as much as me why these guys are in Syria, what would be your solution? Wouldn't be stripping them of their citizenship and deporting them by any chance would it?

The killed Irish Jihadists were killed in battle on Syrian soil by Syrian citizens.
Are you saying they weren't linked to the FSA/Al Qaeda Alliance?
We're they birdwatching?

9 million voted for Assad in 2010.
Army and police are banned from voting under the Constitution, so the final tally would probably be close to 10 million.
You mention Chavez, yes he was a democrat, but the Venezualan Opposition (like the syrian opposition) call him a dictator and a despot.
Chavez admired Assad and supported his political reforms and social policies.
Just because some bitter exiles call this conflict a popular revolution doesn't mean it is.
What kind of popular revolution is heavily reliant on foreign support and paid mercenaries(and recently child soldiers?
The Syrian people in Damascus and Aleppo have snubbed this fake revolution.
Thats why they're now being punished with car-bomb attacks.

Death and Taxes

Norwesterner wrote: »

The killed Irish Jihadists were killed in battle on Syrian soil by Syrian citizens.
Are you saying they weren't linked to the FSA/Al Qaeda Alliance?
We're they birdwatching?

9 million voted for Assad in 2010.
Army and police are banned from voting under the Constitution, so the final tally would probably be close to 10 million.
You mention Chavez, yes he was a democrat, but the Venezualan Opposition (like the syrian opposition) call him a dictator and a despot.
Chavez admired Assad and supported his political reforms and social policies.
Just because some bitter exiles call this conflict a popular revolution doesn't mean it is.
What kind of popular revolution is heavily reliant on foreign support and paid mercenaries(and recently child soldiers?
The Syrian people in Damascus and Aleppo have snubbed this fake revolution.
Thats why they're now being punished with car-bomb attacks.

Oned can only assume that you also believe in the tooth fairy and that the world is flat

Norwesterner

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Oned can only assume that you also believe in the tooth fairy and that the world is flat

Riveting debating with you.

getzls

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Hmm. I see what you did there. You didn't mention the pro-Franco forces attracted from Ireland and the UK.

Syria is interesting. Assad is a vile man, fighting him is legit, but...... That doesn't mean that these lads are the "right" type of radical.

But in general it tells us very little about radicalised Islam in Ireland.

Assad may be vile, but get rid of him and there will be another Islamist state.

Look at some of them already. Iran for one.

You want another?

Norwesterner

Assad will stay in power until the extremists are routed, then he will carry out his reforms, new Constitution and Bill of Rights and ride into the sunset as he hands over power to his V.P or Prime Minister (both secular, moderate Sunnis).
To relinquish his position now would be cowardice and a betrayal of his people.
He'd sentence minorities to certain death and ethnic cleansing.
Thankfully, he's facing down the fascists.

To those who say he should go, what do they suggest happens to the millions who support him, the Syrian army, the police etc?
They will simply become the new insurgency if there is a foreign backed Govt forced on them.
The solution is negotiations with the moderate wing of FSA (if they still exist).
Let them put someone forward in the 2014 elections and let the Syrian people decide their own destiny.
Unfortunately they know they'll lose, and thats why they're going for the forced removal of Assad.
But Syria is not Libya.

Nodin

getzls wrote: »

Assad may be vile, but get rid of him and there will be another Islamist state.

Look at some of them already. Iran for one.

You want another?

Iran is currently the only theocracy.

Norwesterner

Nodin wrote: »

Iran is currently the only theocracy.

Actually the Vatican State is a theocracy also.
As is the exiled Government of Tibet, under Dalai Lama is also a Theocracy (we all love him).
Also, Saudi Arabia, Mauritania, Yemen, Afghanistan, Somalia and Sudan

Nodin

Norwesterner wrote: »

Actually the Vatican State is a theocracy also.

True enough, I suppose.

Norwesterner wrote: »

As is the exiled Government of Tibet, under Dalai Lama is also a Theocracy (we all love him).

...not a state.

Norwesterner wrote: »

Also, Saudi Arabia, Mauritania, Yemen, Afghanistan, Somalia and Sudan

Not on this planet. I'd suggest some research.

SeanW

Nodin wrote: »

It would only be a matter of concern if they were doing something that would be detrimental to this state, or those abroad. So far all we've had in this thread are wild accusations and crap, however.

The problem is that you don't have a lot of credibility. From what I can tell from your posting history, all 26 could come back screaming "Allahu Ahkbar" with millions of €€€ in Saudi money and a containerload of Saudi hate manuals national curriculum textbooks to open Wahhabist school clubs, organising protests like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_kyNIevsIs

and your attitude (like the rest of the multicultural, cultural relativist left) would be "Meh, big fat hairy deal. No cause for concern."

Nodin wrote: »

Iran is currently the only theocracy.

Are you sure about that?

Nodin

SeanW wrote: »

The problem is that you don't have a lot of credibility.

...sez the man thats putting remarks in quotations that I never said.

SeanW wrote: »

Are you sure about that?

Yep. Theocracy would require a religous class in charge. The only two that I'm aware of are the Vatican and Iran. I'm open to correction of course.

Norwesterner

Nodin wrote: »

True enough, I suppose.



...not a state.



Not on this planet. I'd suggest some research.

Just did some research.
Here you are.
Islamic States with sharia law are Islamic theocracies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theocracy#Islamic_states_or_Islamic_theocracies
I'm curious why you solely singled out only Iran. Ulterior motive?

SeanW

Nodin wrote: »

...sez the man thats putting remarks in quotations that I never said.

Which I clearly annotated as the vibe you give off, not your actual statements.

Yep. Theocracy would require a religous class in charge. The only two that I'm aware of are the Vatican and Iran. I'm open to correction of course.

Well, you can add Saudi Arabia for a start. Egypt elected the Muslim Brotherhood so theres another.