Study of Radicalisation - 26 Irish Jihadis Fought in Syria

WayneMolloy

The International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation have released figures claiming that up to 26 Irish Jihadis took part in the Syrian conflict and that there are currently between 15 - 25 of them still involved in the fighting. Two young males, aged 16 and 22, lost their lives in the conflict.

http://icsr.info/2013/04/icsr-insight-european-foreign-fighters-in-syria-2/

Is this cause for concern? Who is recruiting these young men? Have we Jihadis in our midst?

Mr Benevolent

Don't see a problem. Would you fight for your country (in an unofficial capacity) if it was severely threatened? Now we just need to recruit Enda Kenny to the most dangerous region and we're sorted.

Riddle101

Unfortunately this is not a big surprise. The part about young men between the ages of 15 - 25 fighting I mean. It happens. The fact that they're Irish is of no importance to me.

WayneMolloy

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

Don't see a problem. Would you fight for your country (in an unofficial capacity) if it was severely threatened? Now we just need to recruit Enda Kenny to the most dangerous region and we're sorted.

Neither of the two Irish based fighters were Syrian. They were from Egypt and Libya respectively.

WayneMolloy

Riddle101 wrote: »

Unfortunately this is not a big surprise. The part about young men between the ages of 15 - 25 fighting I mean. It happens. The fact that they're Irish is of no importance to me.

It may become important when they return, even more radicalised than when they left.

Fromthetrees

The words Irish and terrorist have been well known to go together for quite some time.

The words Irish and Jihadist going together is a relatively new term to me, and it doesn't sit right with me at all.

discus

I haven't read the link, did they go for a jihadi cause, or a "free democratic country" cause?

danniemcq

why is this an issue?

whats the difference in these lads going over there and fighting to get rid of an evil dictator and Irish who went and fought against Hitler.

Celly Smunt

Yes.We should now treat every Muslim In Ireland with a sense of fear and intimidation.

stmol32

pmcmahon wrote: »

Yes.We should now treat every Muslim In Ireland with a sense of fear and intimidation.

Agreed, this proves their up to something... all of them.

Hande hoche!

pmcmahon wrote: »

Yes.We should now treat every Muslim In Ireland with a sense of fear and intimidation.

Internment is the only solution.

WayneMolloy

danniemcq wrote: »

why is this an issue?

whats the difference in these lads going over there and fighting to get rid of an evil dictator and Irish who went and fought against Hitler.

May I respectively request that you read the piece linked?

My name is URL

danniemcq wrote: »

why is this an issue?

whats the difference in these lads going over there and fighting to get rid of an evil dictator and Irish who went and fought against Hitler.

I guess the biggest difference is that those who went and fought against Hitler, did so as part of recognized and known allied groups.

In Syria there is barely such a thing. It's a hodgepodge of different factions with vastly different ideologies all vying for more power. The issue isn't with young men wanting to fight for their country (who could blame them given the apparent lack of support from the West?)... it's with the indoctrination and exposure to extremist views and goals they encounter while there.

I don't think it's a very big deal, but it raises some interesting questions. Camaraderie and a shared experience / belief can be a very powerful and long lasting force.

AlekSmart

WayneMolloy wrote: »

The International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation have released figures claiming that up to 26 Irish Jihadis took part in the Syrian conflict and that there are currently between 15 - 25 of them still involved in the fighting. Two young males, aged 16 and 22, lost their lives in the conflict.

http://icsr.info/2013/04/icsr-insight-european-foreign-fighters-in-syria-2/

Is this cause for concern? Who is recruiting these young men? Have we Jihadis in our midst?

Firstly WayneMolloy,thanks for adding to our greater store of knowledge in respect of the International Centre for The Study of Radicalization,an entity which looks set to feature a thread or two of it's very own soon .

To address your questions,in my opinion...

1.Yes,but only in the sense of being aware of the reality of current Islamic world events,and not being swayed by assurances that an ever increasing Islamic influence is all good,with absolutely no negative attachments whatever.

2.We do not know,however,we DO know that Ireland has,in the past,been a location where high ranking radical thinkers spent considerable time,thinking.

3.On balance I would have to say,Yes,of course we have,in common with every other country which is embracing the spread of Islam.

It would be foolhardy to imagine that "Irish-Islam" would mutate into some entirely different form simply because of our climate or whatever.

Apart from all that,it really is no more than a maintaining awareness situation,with the concurrent reality that we now live in the Instant Fame,U-Tubed world,where one's street-cred can be hugely increased by the sight of ye letting off a few AK-47 bursts in the direction of some evil State-Sponsored Oppressing force.


Fromthetrees actually has a good point here...

The words Irish and terrorist have been well known to go together for quite some time.

The words Irish and Jihadist going together is a relatively new term to me, and it doesn't sit right with me at all.

The reality,for the "traditional" Irish Causes, Republicanism and Unionism,is that both of them have largely fizzled out.

The reasons are manifold,but in reality,the modern Britian or Ireland,North or South just is'nt anywhere near oppressive and downtrodden enough to spark much revolutionary zeal any longer.(for example what's motivating Republicans and Unionists alike today is the restructuring of the UK's Benefits regime)

Just as with,Saadam,Gadaffi and the ongoing Al Assad thing,if the revolutionaries don't have a verifiable Demon to revolt against,then it's difficult to sustain mass support for offensive actions.

In Irish terms,our great lost opportunity was Margaret Thatcher,who stands Head n Shoulders over any other leader in recent times as a Great Satan around whom to stack the bushels.

So where to from here ?

I suspect it'll be the usual wait n see policy,with most likely nothing happening until an "Irish-Jihadist" stages a "Spectacular" someplace or other ?

danniemcq

WayneMolloy wrote: »

May I respectively request that you read the piece linked?

The Netherlands even raised its terrorism threat level to “substantial” based on worries that – of the 100 or so individuals who are believed to have travelled to Syria – some may return to Holland and become involved in terrorist attacks.

"some may return" pure speculation. where is the evidence that someone who fought in the FSA has carried out an attack against the wesr

The rebel forces in Syria can be divided into three groups: independent local units; those aligned with the Free Syrian Army (FSA); and so-called jihadists whose ideology is linked to that of al Qaeda. Deaths in the third category – the jihadists – can be established via so-called martyrdom notices in al Qaeda-authenticated online forums.

al Qaeda could easily be trying to drum up support and use the sacrifice that these guys have made to further their own agenda.

That article is seeking attention and having a flashy headline helps grab that attention.

If you want something that could worry the west with the current events in Syria its our complete lack of action as thousands are killed. That feeling of isolation when you are crying out for help to anyone that would listen but nobody does will breed hate in the hearts of Syrians and give Al Qaeda and other similer groups great examples of how they have been forgotten and do not matter on the world stage and encourage people to take up arms against the West.

Thats the scary part not people willing to sacrfice their lives for the sake of freedom

EDIT

My name is URL wrote: »

I guess the biggest difference is that those who went and fought against Hitler, did so as part of recognized and known allied groups.

In Syria there is barely such a thing. It's a hodgepodge of different factions with vastly different ideologies all vying for more power. The issue isn't with young men wanting to fight for their country (who could blame them given the apparent lack of support from the West?)... it's with the indoctrination and exposure to extremist views and goals they encounter while there.
I don't think it's a very big deal, but it raises some interesting questions. Camaraderie and a shared experience / belief can be a very powerful and long lasting force.

agree with the bolded part, i mentioned it above that its lack of support that will create a hatred of the west. what would the complaints from the extremists be in their recruitment be if all they can say is good things?

crockholm

Looks like the new Irish turned out to be old Egyptian and Libyan after all. May they stay in syria and hopefully the last ounce of thier blood nourishes syrian soil,and any other like minded new Irish may join them and share the same fate hopefully

stmol32

crockholm wrote: »

Looks like the new Irish turned out to be old Egyptian and Libyan after all. May they stay in syria and hopefully the last ounce of thier blood nourishes syrian soil,and any other like minded new Irish may join them and share the same fate hopefully

Jesus dude, you escalated that fairly quickly.

Yeah I hate radicals. Ya know, people like Orwell who went abroad to fight in a war that had nothing to do with him and was only about different sides wanting power.

g5fd6ow0hseima

If it happens that the anti-Assad fighters are victorious, then it's hard to imagine these jihadists returning home in any scenario, given that they're either going to be rewarded for their efforts and settle in the country or worse be engaged in a long term power struggle with their former allies.

Given that radicalisation is a natural product of warfare - especially dirty asymmetrical wars like this one - there's no way they would have a real desire return to Ireland and live their old lives.

Duggys Housemate

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah I hate radicals. Ya know, people like Orwell who went abroad to fight in a war that had nothing to do with him and was only about different sides wanting power.

Hmm. I see what you did there. You didn't mention the pro-Franco forces attracted from Ireland and the UK.

Syria is interesting. Assad is a vile man, fighting him is legit, but...... That doesn't mean that these lads are the "right" type of radical.

But in general it tells us very little about radicalised Islam in Ireland.

nowuckenfurries

Is this not After hours ??

Jihad Yer Ma!! :D:D:D

crockholm

stmol32 wrote: »

Jesus dude, you escalated that fairly quickly.

Not a fan of jihadists, hope they all die horribly (though not by self destruction among innocent civilians)


Would have thought that was the preveiling mood.

danniemcq

crockholm wrote: »

Not a fan of jihadists, hope they all die horribly (though not by self destruction among innocent civilians)


Would have thought that was the preveiling mood.

....

what?

wikipedia wrote:

In Islam, the phrase al-jihad fi sabilillah is the equivalent of the western notion of bellum justum or just war

these are people fighting for freedom against an evil dictator, it does not mean KILL EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING.

These guys are doing this for their beliefs in a just war. there is a difference to them and terrorists who target civilians in order to spread their beliefs.

wiktionary wrote:

The ideological movement within modern Islamic fundamentalism which advocates armed jihad. Islamist guerilla warfare or Islamist terrorism.

just like all muslims aren't terrorists not all jihadists are terrorists targeting civilians. They may be protrayed as terrorists but remember that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter

corktina

the boys were just camping in the next field and went over to complain about the noise...

the_syco

danniemcq wrote: »

why is this an issue?

whats the difference in these lads going over there and fighting to get rid of an evil dictator and Irish who went and fought against Hitler.

Hitler had better dress sense.

=-=

How many of the 26 were born in Ireland, how many were born in Ireland to parents who themselves were born in Ireland, and how many were born elsewhere, got refugee status in Ireland, and went back to their "home country" when contacted by someone to fight for "the cause"?

Death and Taxes

WayneMolloy wrote: »

The International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation have released figures claiming that up to 26 Irish Jihadis took part in the Syrian conflict and that there are currently between 15 - 25 of them still involved in the fighting. Two young males, aged 16 and 22, lost their lives in the conflict.

http://icsr.info/2013/04/icsr-insight-european-foreign-fighters-in-syria-2/

Is this cause for concern? Who is recruiting these young men? Have we Jihadis in our midst?

Note the use of the word Jihadis, why not say freedom fighters? There is no evidence that these individuals were indeed fighting a Jihad, merely that they were oppossing a tyrant.
Yet another xenophobic and scaremongering thread by the usual suspect!

wendell borton

I really despise jihadists they are not fighting to free Syria only to propagate their sick agendas. Syria is just another training ground for them.
The mujahedeen that fought in Bosnia carried out numerous war crimes. They went from there to spread more terror around the world, some of the 9/11 hijackers were veterans from Bosnia.

WayneMolloy

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Note the use of the word Jihadis, why not say freedom fighters? There is no evidence that these individuals were indeed fighting a Jihad, merely that they were oppossing a tyrant.
Yet another xenophobic and scaremongering thread by the usual suspect!

Take it up with the International Centre in the Study of Radicalisation. Just using their terminology here.

So far you have accused the cso, environs.ie, the world bank and now the above of being scaremongering and xenophobic! - as they are the sources I have used to back up my claims (which you dont like).

If you think it xenophobic to ask why a 16 year old lad, who had never before set foot in Syria, decided to go over and fight there after being recruited by jihadists - then that speaks volumes about you and how brainwashed you are with your ideology.

WileyCoyote

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Note the use of the word Jihadis, why not say freedom fighters? There is no evidence that these individuals were indeed fighting a Jihad, merely that they were oppossing a tyrant.
Yet another xenophobic and scaremongering thread by the usual suspect!

People will just use whatever word suits an agenda. I'm not going to claim to know a huge amount about Syria but it's not all cut-and-dry, the West were happy to support Assad for ages before changing their minds, then when it looked like they were going to throw in behind the rebels they pulled back and the country is just tearing itself asunder.

Doublelime

WayneMolloy wrote: »

The International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation have released figures claiming that up to 26 Irish Jihadis took part in the Syrian conflict and that there are currently between 15 - 25 of them still involved in the fighting. Two young males, aged 16 and 22, lost their lives in the conflict.

http://icsr.info/2013/04/icsr-insight-european-foreign-fighters-in-syria-2/

Is this cause for concern? Who is recruiting these young men? Have we Jihadis in our midst?

You clearly don't know what "Jihadis" are. Go read a book about it. Jihad is when a Muslim fights for Islam. They are not going for Jihad. They are fighting for their rights. And you can also say some Christians are a form of "Jihadis" if they fight for their religion. For example if I were to insole Christianity to a Christian, they would probably say "say that again and I'll knock you out" etc. Thus making them a " Jihadis" in their own way. I actually knew 1 of the men who died. I also know a teen who goes to my school who fought their for some time.

crockholm

danniemcq wrote: »

....

what?



these are people fighting for freedom against an evil dictator, it does not mean KILL EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING.

These guys are doing this for their beliefs in a just war. there is a difference to them and terrorists who target civilians in order to spread their beliefs.



just like all muslims aren't terrorists not all jihadists are terrorists targeting civilians. They may be protrayed as terrorists but remember that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter

So this modern A-team has a code of ethics does it? Fight against dictators and bring about democracy and equal voting rights? why would an Egyptian and a libyan choose to fight for syrians, unless there is another,bigger motivation behind their casus belli.

WayneMolloy

Doublelime wrote: »

You clearly don't know what "Jihadis" are. Go read a book about it. Jihad is when a Muslim fights for Islam. They are not going for Jihad. They are fighting for their rights. And you can also say some Christians are a form of "Jihadis" if they fight for their religion. For example if I were to insole Christianity to a Christian, they would probably say "say that again and I'll knock you out" etc. Thus making them a " Jihadis" in their own way. I actually knew 1 of the men who died. I also know a teen who goes to my school who fought their for some time.

Why was he over there? Why did his parents not stop him? They are Libyans, correct?

biko

I'm fairly sure the names of the 26 fighters weren't Paddy or Mick.
It's fairly common for immigrants to EU to go back and fight in homeland wars.

stmol32

crockholm wrote: »

Not a fan of jihadists, hope they all die horribly (though not by self destruction among innocent civilians)


Would have thought that was the preveiling mood.

It didn't come across that way at all, it sounded like you hoped all foreigners living in Ireland would go to Syria and die.

Phoebas

crockholm wrote: »

So this modern A-team has a code of ethics does it? Fight against dictators and bring about democracy and equal voting rights? why would an Egyptian and a libyan choose to fight for syrians, unless there is another,bigger motivation behind their casus belli.

Probably for similar reasons why lots of Irish people joined the British army to fight Hitler?

That, or they want to impose Sharia law on our children :eek:

danniemcq

crockholm wrote: »

So this modern A-team has a code of ethics does it? Fight against dictators and bring about democracy and equal voting rights? why would an Egyptian and a libyan choose to fight for syrians, unless there is another,bigger motivation behind their casus belli.

again see my earlier post, why did any Irish people join the second world war?

why did American pilots join the RAF before America joined WW2 officially

why did so many join the spanish civil war? there are people who fight against evil because it is the thing to do

(btw people from other countries fought on both sides of these conflicts)

crockholm

stmol32 wrote: »

It didn't come across that way at all, it sounded like you hoped all foreigners living in Ireland would go to Syria and die.

No, apologies for my poor communication. Just the ones with the jihadi mentality

Death and Taxes

WayneMolloy wrote: »

The International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation have released figures claiming that up to 26 Irish Jihadis took part in the Syrian conflict and that there are currently between 15 - 25 of them still involved in the fighting. Two young males, aged 16 and 22, lost their lives in the conflict.

http://icsr.info/2013/04/icsr-insight-european-foreign-fighters-in-syria-2/

Is this cause for concern? Who is recruiting these young men? Have we Jihadis in our midst?

At no point at all does the linked document refer to the alleged 26 Irish as Jihadis, it referers only to them as fighters and indeed goes to some lengths to point out that that rebels in Syria can be classified in three ways , Jihadists are only one group.
Way has purposly therefore misrepresented the report to suit his own particularly xenophobic if not racist agenda.
Read his link and see just how he has twisted it.

Death and Taxes

WayneMolloy wrote: »

The International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation have released figures claiming that up to 26 Irish Jihadis took part in the Syrian conflict and that there are currently between 15 - 25 of them still involved in the fighting. Two young males, aged 16 and 22, lost their lives in the conflict.

http://icsr.info/2013/04/icsr-insight-european-foreign-fighters-in-syria-2/

Is this cause for concern? Who is recruiting these young men? Have we Jihadis in our midst?

read the report and quote me where it mentions Irish Jihadis

crockholm

danniemcq wrote: »

again see my earlier post, why did any Irish people join the second world war?

why did American pilots join the RAF before America joined WW2 officially

why did so many join the spanish civil war? there are people who fight against evil because it is the thing to do

(btw people from other countries fought on both sides of these conflicts)

well aware of it. In my own family I have had, from earlier generations,people join the british army to fight in ww1 and ww2, even had a great-grand uncle fight with the Boers in the Boer war. But what I also have are Syrian Christian neighbours and friends of the wife, who have family in Syria,and the stories of the foreign militiamen are not of the noble warrior type. I have been told that it is largely the anti-government forces and the foreign fighters who are purging the area, through murder and intimidation,of it's Christian populace.Now, all things considered, do I accecpt your point that, from whatever info you have, that the foreigners are a benevolent force for change.Or, do I listen to my Neighbours, and wifeys friends, who regularly communicate with their families back home about the situation on the ground?

WayneMolloy

WileyCoyote wrote: »

At no point at all does the linked document refer to the alleged 26 Irish as Jihadis, it referers only to them as fighters and indeed goes to some lengths to point out that that rebels in Syria can be classified in three ways , Jihadists are only one group.
Way has purposly therefore misrepresented the report to suit his own particularly xenophobic if not racist agenda.
Read his link and see just how he has twisted it.

You are more concerned with my posting than 26 Irish based muslims going of to fight in a conflict with a side that is heavily linked with jihadist extremists. That is just nuts, man.

According to prof. Peter Nuemann of Kings University, London - Out of the EU, Ireland is the biggest contributor of combatants in Syria , per capita. Most of the fighters are not Syrian, but Libyan. That would lead us to believe a lot of them were involved in the Libyan conflict, too. Where they returned to a hereos welcome from the goons in rte. I think it is fair to call these veterans jihadis.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/26-fighters-have-left-ireland-to-join-syrian-rebels-29173266.html

I hope the branch are monitoring the situation very closely.

Nodin

WayneMolloy wrote: »

The International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation have released figures claiming that up to 26 Irish Jihadis took part in the Syrian conflict and that there are currently between 15 - 25 of them still involved in the fighting. Two young males, aged 16 and 22, lost their lives in the conflict.

http://icsr.info/2013/04/icsr-insight-european-foreign-fighters-in-syria-2/

Is this cause for concern? Who is recruiting these young men? Have we Jihadis in our midst?

Jaysus wayne, them 'foriegners' just won't let ye sleep.

Phoebas

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Way has purposly therefore misrepresented the report to suit his own particularly xenophobic if not racist agenda.
Read his link and see just how he has twisted it.

This is the third link that that poster had posted in as many days that, on examination, didn't at all say what he represents it as saying (the other two were about immigrents access to social welfare, so i'm seeing a pattern).

Nodin

WayneMolloy wrote: »

...............

If you think it xenophobic to ask why a 16 year old lad, who had never before set foot in Syria, decided to go over and fight there after being recruited by jihadists - then that speaks volumes about you and how brainwashed you are with your ideology.

Did you ask the same question about the Irish in the American and Brit armies fighting in Iraq, or is that "different"?

WayneMolloy

This is whom our 26 'freedom fighters' are aligning themselves with - http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/3/islamic-cleric-decrees-it-ok-syrian-rebels-rape-wo/

WayneMolloy

Nodin wrote: »

Did you ask the same question about the Irish in the American and Brit armies fighting in Iraq, or is that "different"?

Whataboutery at its finest.

Nodin

WayneMolloy wrote: »

This is whom our 26 'freedom fighters' are aligning themselves with - http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/3/islamic-cleric-decrees-it-ok-syrian-rebels-rape-wo/

That story was debunked Wayne. Its bollocks.

Salon re-published a story Wednesday from one of our partner sites, AlterNet, with the headline “Saudi religious leader calls for gang rape of Syrian women.” The story reported that cleric Sheikh Mohammad Al-Arifi had urged Syrian fighters to satisfy their sexual urges in “short-term marriages” as a means of boosting morale in their fight against the Assad regime. AlterNet has since retracted the story, saying it was “based on a false report,” and published an explanation for how a story so flawed could be published. Salon has removed the story from our archives, and regrets running the original story.

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/03/cleric_gang_rape_story_debunked/

Why are you re-distributing lies?

How can the 26 people be aligned with something that doesn't exist?

Nodin

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Whataboutery at its finest.

No, its a simple question. You've a problem with one group, I want to know if you've a problem with another.

WayneMolloy

Nodin wrote: »

That story was debunked Wayne. Its bollocks.


http://www.salon.com/2013/01/03/cleric_gang_rape_story_debunked/

Why are you re-distributing lies?

How can the 26 people be aligned with something that doesn't exist?

Its debunked because salon.net claim it to be so?

Il wait until the Washington Times retract their version of events, if its all the same with you.

Nodin

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Its debunked because salon.net claim it to be so?

Il wait until the Washington Times retract their version of events, if its all the same with you.

No, the Washington times got it from either Alternet, or the same source. Its bollocks "wayne", its been refuted, debunked, and it was obvious from the minute it emerged it was crap.

Why are you redistributing lies?

Why aren't you critical of those who joined the American and Brit armies?

crockholm

Are things really as clear cut as that nodin? Are we going to substitute assad for hitler and the anti-government militia's as the allies? I respect your point of veiw on many things nodin, but that is,I think, over-simplified.