Would you consider voting a Majority Fianna fail for the next government?

Phoebas

jonbravo wrote: »

If you cant read its not my problem ..

Sorry .... its just that I'm used to coherent sentences.

liamygunner29

a quarter of people on this thread really represents a huge swing in real life.

Why bother posting if you have anything to say about FF? I mean even that teacher above who didn't even say anything positive about them got attacked.

All the posters here having a little anti FF love in would be better served setting up another party instead of spending the last 5 years here and many more to come thanking each other for giving out about FF! It is inevitable that they will be back in power and believe it or not its not because you are all genius and the rest of the country is comprised of morons.

I have not decided who I will vote for as I want to see how this term finishes. I may very well vote FF. I am acutely aware of the problems they caused and the errors they made but look around Europe. I dont think FF singlehandly decided that they were going to F up the country and drag us down. They mismanaged an already terrible situation and got the a huge kick in the arse from the country. I didn't consider voting for them in the last election and was delighted they got some form of retribution.

If they continue rebuilding and I like the TD they put forward in my constituency I will vote for them.

I suppose I better leave before somebody comes in and calls me an uneducated pariah moron or so on.

jonbravo

Phoebas wrote: »

Sorry .... its just that I'm used to coherent sentences.

Read a book then. Listen attack what I'm talking about... a new start for a tiny country!?

Herb Powell

jonbravo wrote: »

We need to do things for our selfs, the trade unions are out of date...to form a real party for the people, a choice between 2 or 3 differing ideas would be a fine start.

Stop imports and exports ...bring the country to its knees and out them 2nd and 3rd generation d@c@heads!!
Its not because we can its because we need too! Grow some balls people you know I'm right.

Kill our economy. Genius.

Sergeant

jonbravo wrote: »

Read a book then. Listen attack what I'm talking about... a new start for a tiny country!?

So, let me get this straight.

Stop all imports and exports - see ya later Google, Oracle, EMC, Microsoft, Intel. Don't need fuel to power the electricity network, oil to run our cars etc etc etc.
?
?
?
Utopia for the people.

Nothing could possibly go wrong. It's utterly foolproof.

zeds alive

Doesn't matter who you vote for , you're going to get shafted. at this point voting is just a case of optics.

Srianadh

I like most posters didn't vote FF last time. In fact, in my short time as a voter I've never voted FF. I always voted Labour, until now that is. I have since been reading up on history religiously and political theory in a real effort to get to grips with Irish politics and one thing has become clear. People that try make out Irish parties to be anywhere on the classic left-right divide really have not got the foggiest clue what they're talking about. I grew up thinking FF were a right wing party and that instantly turned me off them. After reading up, they are actually classic centrists like most Irish political parties. Like the poster above I too took great joy in seeing FF humbled 2 years ago however in looking around Europe I'm seeing an all too familiar pattern that can't simply be explained away with "(Party X) ruined the country" from state to state. FF mismanaged a bad situation and paid the price. If the election were today would I vote for them? No. However I have liked the soundings and if they come out with some concrete policies on the economy looking at alternatives to the cuts regime we're in at present and also keep up the turn to social liberalism they could go places.

That said I'll be hoping a Shane Ross or Stephen Donnelly runs in my area next time. That isn't to say I won't consider FF in future however.

jonbravo

Herb Powell wrote: »

Kill our economy. Genius.

Economy you got to be joking! Dunnes process nearly everything in the north of ireland only to be imported back in under the Uk with a R.IRELAND flag posted on the side of gone off foods.

Your economy is a lie worth thinking to save!?

R0ot

Disband all parties and let everyone be voted in on their own merits and not some party stamp of approval!

jonbravo

R0ot wrote: »

Disband all parties and let everyone be voted in on their own merits and not some party stamp of approval!

Or only one family member can be voted in to any party at any one time.

Herb Powell

jonbravo wrote: »

Economy you got to be joking! Dunnes process nearly everything in the north of ireland only to be imported back in under the Uk with a R.IRELAND flag posted on the side of gone off foods.

Your economy is a lie worth thinking to save!?

Sorry, I don't want to be a prick, but I honestly don't understand what this means at all. What are you trying to say?

jonbravo

Herb Powell wrote: »

Sorry, I don't want to be a prick, but I honestly don't understand what this means at all. What are you trying to say?

False economy

Herb Powell

jonbravo wrote: »

False economy

And what do you mean by that?

Madam_X

jonbravo wrote: »

False economy

Based on Dunnes.

solas111

Many years ago I would have listened to radio and television debates and read newspapers in order to determine which party I should vote for, based on their stated policies. Now, I do none of those things simply because I do not believe one word that any of them say.

I would classify Fianna Fail and Fine Gael as being almost identical regarding policies, honesty, trust etc. and would find it difficult to even consider voting for either party. Fianna Fail have come up with most of the rotten stuff that the present government are dishing out and given a miracle at the last general election it would be a Fianna Fail highwayman who would be robbing people through household tax, water rates, septic tank charges, wage cuts, tax increases etc.

I would find it difficult to vote for Labour because of some of their social policies but would have regarded them as being in a position to put some sort of brake on the right wing financial policies of the other two. However, Labour has failed completely in this regard and their failure is reflected in the latest opinion polls.

Sinn Fein has been the anti-everything party and it would have been impossible to disagree with their policies, simply because they had none. Now, I would have a big fear that their ‘magic cure’ would come from raiding the pension funds that people have paid into all of their working lives and depend on for their retirement.

The Green Party are hopefully buried under a heap of eco-friendly dung, never to be heard of again. They have done more harm to environmental issues than all of the illegal dumps in the country put together.

At the last general election I was going to exercise my right to protest by not voting at all. In the end, I voted for an independent candidate as a protest vote and partly because I liked what he was saying, although I knew that he would have little or no power and that it is easy to make promises in opposition.

Presently, I would not vote for any party candidate simply because there is no real choice. The system is badly broken and the country is entering a dangerous period of hopelessness where many people no longer care. I cannot understand how the opinion polls are showing that support for Fine Gael is remaining steady and that Fianna Fail have not lost much ground either. Surely people cannot be so naïve or stupid as to believe anything that these people say. There is also a lack of balance in the written media in the country and the only message that comes through is what the people with the money want us to hear.

How do you know if an Irish politician is lying? Simple – you watch to see if his lips move.

Phoebas

jonbravo wrote: »

Read a book then. Listen attack what I'm talking about... a new start for a tiny country!?

Nope. Sorry. I'm still not understanding you.

delthedriver

sxt wrote: »

I know that there is a school of thought that "sure aren't they all the same". Any other political party would have done the same etc. .Maybe if Fine Gael were in charge for 70 of the last 80 years, they would have done the same or worse. Who knows? ...But they weren't. Fianna Fail were.

I think if a party that rules for 90% of the time in the last 80 years ,like Fianna fail has, an aura of utter complacency, nonchalance and levels of corruption has to fester. That is the human psyche

Fianna Fail tasted the revolt and disgust of the people .Did they fight on and show solidarity with the people? Did they try to save face and their public and national respect?. No.The majority of the old school Senior Politicians began "retiring" in their slithery droves.Some under questionable circumstances. Gulping up the previous era Celtic Tiger Golden pensions as a brazen parting insult to the people and their own party.


There is a case to say that Fianna fail are renewed, the old politics are gone, and that there is a new younger breed coming through. A party that has learned from the mistakes of the past.That may be true but... A new leader would be apt ? Why haven't they CRIED out for a new LEADER? Your leader was in cahoots or at least in liaison with dodgy politicians!

Fianna Fail are the most popular party in Ireland according to recent polls

Would you vote for a majority Fianna fail to be in Government in the next election ?

Not a chance!
A leopard cannot change its spots!:D

jonbravo

Madam_X wrote: »

Based on Dunnes.

I care what the people of this country eat on a day to day level.. I don't care for your need for google, laptops, cars even if all of ireland could afford it all
But no not just based on dunnes, lots of things right but still wrong.

kevmy85

liamygunner29 wrote: »

a quarter of people on this thread really represents a huge swing in real life.

Why bother posting if you have anything to say about FF? I mean even that teacher above who didn't even say anything positive about them got attacked.

All the posters here having a little anti FF love in would be better served setting up another party instead of spending the last 5 years here and many more to come thanking each other for giving out about FF! It is inevitable that they will be back in power and believe it or not its not because you are all genius and the rest of the country is comprised of morons.

I have not decided who I will vote for as I want to see how this term finishes. I may very well vote FF. I am acutely aware of the problems they caused and the errors they made but look around Europe. I dont think FF singlehandly decided that they were going to F up the country and drag us down. They mismanaged an already terrible situation and got the a huge kick in the arse from the country. I didn't consider voting for them in the last election and was delighted they got some form of retribution.

If they continue rebuilding and I like the TD they put forward in my constituency I will vote for them.

I suppose I better leave before somebody comes in and calls me an uneducated pariah moron or so on.

Fair enough I won't attack anyone who has put some thought into voting one way or the other.

And in fairness most people here have put forward reasons to not vote for particular parties without saying any reason to vote for the parties.

What I think people should do is ignore the small things (and yes small things can hurt you quite badly but are small in the larger scope of affairs) and look at the vision of the parties long term.

If you think the long-term vision makes sense and is achievable and reasonable vote for that party. Do not vote for a party which promises you a slightly better life but has no joined-up plan or vision for making the country better.

Once that party is voted in you should judge them on the whole, over the course of their term. Is the country better than it was when they were elected, is it on a sustainable path, are the individual politicians trustworthy and working as best they can, has progress been made on the vision.

If the party is elected in coalition - read the programme for government (the last one was freely published) - you will see plenty of compromises but that is the price of coalition. Then judge the government on the implementation of that, not on the manifestos they produce pre-election (the programme for government is usually a mix of the parties manifestos).

Having said that I ask can people tell me what are the visions of FG, FF, Lab, SF, Greens, Socialists, etc. My viewpoint on the parties as they are over the last 20 yrs is below. Personally I would like a party which mixes Labs socially progressive side with the pro-business no nonsense economics of FG, with the long-term vision of the Greens and is able to competently implement those policies. I don't think this is going to happen anytime soon so for me I support the current Government until closer to the end of the term and judge them then.

FFs overarching vision seems to be getting (and keeping) the party in government. The flip-flop to popular positions and seem to have no core beliefs. They cannot even claim to have been competent managers of the country and have supplied the most (and the most egregious) corrupt politicians in the state. People say they are centrists but they are populist (i.e. they tell people what they want to hear to get elected). Closest European equivalent is Berlusconi's crew in Italy. In fairness to them the 97-02 Government done a lot of good things (Good Friday agreement, broad based economic growth, relatively prudent management). However between 2002 and 2011 they were pretty poor.

FG, at least, have some core beliefs. More honest, stronger belief in law and order, generally put the country above the party, closer to a "normal" European centre-right party. This means the usually favour austerity over investment in tough times and are more socially conservative. They performed quite well in the Rainbow government and cleaving quite close this time to what they promised pre-election.

Labour, again, have some core principles. More socially progressive and closer to your standard European centre-left party. They also claim to protect the more vulnerable economically and socially. Hamstrung in Ireland partly because they have always entered into government as the junior coalition partner. This means less of their own policies are written into the programme for government and are tried to be implemented. However people in Ireland often seem to judge smaller parties on their manifestos and not what was agreed in programme for government - hence the usual decimation of the junior coalition partner.

SF are a strange one. They state core beliefs and they have pretty whacky ones at times. Then they swing more populist to try to get votes. Claim to be very left-wing yet in the North they operate happily in a centrist coalition. This is not mentioning the elephant in the corner of the association to the IRA. Personally I find them to have a dishonest streak and feel if they really want the policies these espouse implemented in Ireland they attempt to form a Government with Lab, Greens, Socialists. I don't think they are truly interested however - again they seem more about the party than the nation.

Greens and Socialists are generally fairly consistent and rational in their policies, although their is no denying the Greens performed badly in Government last time. They helped pass two very good pieces of legislation (Civil Partnerships and the Planning Bill) but forgot the larger picture. The Socilaists are obsessed with who is more pure idealogical and I don't believe they will ever be in Government in Ireland as there does not appear to be enough appetite for those type of policies in Ireland.

Btw I voted no on the poll. I'll not vote FF until they produce some policies that take a stand on the big issues and stick to them. Even then I would have to trust them to be honest enough and competent enough to implement them. Personally so far I see no change from them in terms of policy or helping the country. The only recovery they seem interested in is the recovery of the party.

TwoShedsJackson

As regards the 'FF and FG are one and the same' angle, does it not remain a fact that although FG might have done the same and fecked the country had they been in power, FF actually did do it, and so are less worth of voting for?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

sxt wrote: »

I know that there is a school of thought that "sure aren't they all the same". Any other political party would have done the same etc. .Maybe if Fine Gael were in charge for 70 of the last 80 years, they would have done the same or worse. Who knows? ...But they weren't. Fianna Fail were.

I think if a party that rules for 90% of the time in the last 80 years ,like Fianna fail has, an aura of utter complacency, nonchalance and levels of corruption has to fester. That is the human psyche

Fianna Fail tasted the revolt and disgust of the people .Did they fight on and show solidarity with the people? Did they try to save face and their public and national respect?. No.The majority of the old school Senior Politicians began "retiring" in their slithery droves.Some under questionable circumstances. Gulping up the previous era Celtic Tiger Golden pensions as a brazen parting insult to the people and their own party.


There is a case to say that Fianna fail are renewed, the old politics are gone, and that there is a new younger breed coming through. A party that has learned from the mistakes of the past.That may be true but... A new leader would be apt ? Why haven't they CRIED out for a new LEADER? Your leader was in cahoots or at least in liaison with dodgy politicians!

Fianna Fail are the most popular party in Ireland according to recent polls

Would you vote for a majority Fianna fail to be in Government in the next election ?

Electing Fianna Fail again would be like appointing a convicted pedophile to run a creche.

Sergeant

I find Micheál Martin's earnestness and faux-sincerity to be extremely false and easy to see through.

He held the following positions while Bertie Ahern was Taoiseach:

Minister for Education and Science
Minister for Health and Children
Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment
Minister for Foreign Affairs

He was also considered one of Ahern's close confidants and sat at every Cabinet meeting held through those ruinous years, including the one that gave the nod for the bailout of Anglo.

To make this man Taoiseach would be a dreadful decision.

Dempsey

Sergeant wrote: »

I find Micheál Martin's earnestness and faux-sincerity to be extremely false and easy to see through.

He held the following positions while Bertie Ahern was Taoiseach:

Minister for Education and Science
Minister for Health and Children
Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment
Minister for Foreign Affairs

He was also considered one of Ahern's close confidants and sat at every Cabinet meeting held through those ruinous years, including the one that gave the nod for the bailout of Anglo.

To make this man Taoiseach would be a dreadful decision.

But he brought in the smoking ban!! :pac:

Montroseee

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Electing Fianna Fail again would be like appointing a convicted pedophile to run a creche.

Such a vulgar and senseless comparison. Pure stupidity.

hooradiation

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Electing Fianna Fail again would be like appointing a convicted pedophile to run a creche.

On the plus side, the children would never be left unattended.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Montroseee wrote: »

Such a vulgar and senseless comparison. Pure stupidity.

In what way?

Responsibility has been abused, responsibility was removed. Now, based on no evidence of remorse or learning from the event, repsonsibilty is being reenthrusted.

Rezident

Not a chance but I'm sure plenty of sheep will sleepwalk us into another shambles again soon enough.

tayto lover

sxt wrote: »

I know that there is a school of thought that "sure aren't they all the same". Any other political party would have done the same etc. .Maybe if Fine Gael were in charge for 70 of the last 80 years, they would have done the same or worse. Who knows? ...But they weren't. Fianna Fail were.

I think if a party that rules for 90% of the time in the last 80 years ,like Fianna fail has, an aura of utter complacency, nonchalance and levels of corruption has to fester. That is the human psyche

Fianna Fail tasted the revolt and disgust of the people .Did they fight on and show solidarity with the people? Did they try to save face and their public and national respect?. No.The majority of the old school Senior Politicians began "retiring" in their slithery droves.Some under questionable circumstances. Gulping up the previous era Celtic Tiger Golden pensions as a brazen parting insult to the people and their own party.


There is a case to say that Fianna fail are renewed, the old politics are gone, and that there is a new younger breed coming through. A party that has learned from the mistakes of the past.That may be true but... A new leader would be apt ? Why haven't they CRIED out for a new LEADER? Your leader was in cahoots or at least in liaison with dodgy politicians!

Fianna Fail are the most popular party in Ireland according to recent polls

Would you vote for a majority Fianna fail to be in Government in the next election ?

I saw a white blackbird today.

Sir Oxman

^^ at poll above - there's your ~20% that are doing they're best to prove the stereotype is right.

*Hopes they're all trolls or non-voters or just let out for the day*

hatrickpatrick

Uriel. wrote: »

Edit: the OAPs will shuffle their way to the polling booths in most weather conditions. The same can't be said of younger voters. We seriousily need to get involvement in the democratic process otherwise we'll continue to get the old hand TDs we've always being getting.

Reforming the parliamentary system to make it more democratic would seriously help with this I reckon. I talk to my friends about politics quite often and one of the main reasons they tell me they're not interested in elections is because they know that no matter what policies a candidate runs on, they are bound by their party whip to the extent that their mandate becomes totally irrelevant.

We need a world in which a politician's election manifesto is like a contract. Screw it up and you lose your seat regardless of whether it's an election year or not.
What we have now is four years of self serving, one year of people pleasing policies, the one year being the election year. Every other year, they feel they can do anything they like since they know they're safe for another couple of years after that.