Would you consider voting a Majority Fianna fail for the next government?

MilanPan!c

Anynama141 wrote: »

Because it is meaningless Freeman bullsh!t. It doesn't actually mean anything in the real world. The Freemen think it forces the police to operate in 'common law', not statute law, meaning that actual legislation passed by the Dáil becomes ineffective.

Pure voodoo nonsense.

Pure voodoo nonsense that has clogged the courts in the US/UK/Canada?Australia and lots of other places.

It is literally an international cult/scam.

The EXACT same claims made by Gilroy were made by people, starting in the 70s in the US.

It's one big con.

Anynama141

Hijpo wrote: »

Do you think the people should have had a say before they lumped odious debt onto them?

They had a say and they voted for representatives from Fianna Failure who went on to bankrupt us. Why do you think their judgement will suddenly improve in complex issues like the bailouts?

Hijpo wrote: »

Your issue can and will be raised, i doubt your going to get many people wanting to continue the 3billion in taxes and cuts while they lads get free dry cleaning and the rest of the needless expenses.

You realise that those cuts would have to be made anyway, right?

MilanPan!c

Anynama141 wrote: »

They had a say and they voted for representatives from Fianna Failure who went on to bankrupt us. Why do you think their judgement will suddenly improve in complex issues like the bailouts?

This is one of the core bits of stupidity in the DDI movement.

Many of their supporters complain about the "muppets" who voted for the politicians in power. Then they say the solution will be to give these say "muppets" more control.

What they MEAN is that they PERSONALLY want more control.

Which is the appeal of these fraudsters in DDI.

Hijpo

Phoebas wrote: »

But do you not think that DDI should be offering the referendum •before• they make this big policy change?

Yes if they are about giving the people a say then they should, alot of people seem to be thinking this is a fully established party with everything answered and caterd for. Do people expect them to be in power in 3 years or something?

periodictable

Fianna Fail should be disbanded and all past and current members required to undergo a process similar to denazification.

MilanPan!c

Hijpo wrote: »

Yes if they are about giving the people a say then they should, alot of people seem to be thinking this is a fully established party with everything answered and caterd for. Do people expect them to be in power in 3 years or something?

I thinks it's more likely that Ben and his buddy Marcus will be in front of a judge within three years.

Anynama141

MilanPan!c wrote: »

I thinks it's more likely that Ben and his buddy Marcus will be in front of a judge within three years.

As long as the judge is "on his oath", Ben will be fine... :pac:

MilanPan!c

Anynama141 wrote: »

As long as the judge is "on his oath", Ben will be fine... :pac:

And uses the "right" colour of ink. :P

Hijpo

MilanPan!c wrote: »

Pure voodoo nonsense that has clogged the courts in the US/UK/Canada?Australia and lots of other places.

It is literally an international cult/scam.

The EXACT same claims made by Gilroy were made by people, starting in the 70s in the US.

It's one big con.

If it was a fair system people would have a democratic/legal way of defending themselves against the lumps of meat in power at the moment without resorting to the freeman ****. Government seem to be able to strip these defences away with the stroke of a pen in the morning, suggest they cut from the top first, oh no no no impossible.

Anynama141 wrote: »

They had a say and they voted for representatives from Fianna Failure who went on to bankrupt us. Why do you think their judgement will suddenly improve in complex issues like the bailouts?

You realise that those cuts would have to be made anyway, right?

If our country was run properly and peoples opinions were listend to it could be done differently. They claimed to turn ireland around, instead they made the debt bigger, passed it on down the road for another generation, gambling that inflation will take care of it all.

MilanPan!c wrote: »

This is one of the core bits of stupidity in the DDI movement.

Many of their supporters complain about the "muppets" who voted for the politicians in power. Then they say the solution will be to give these say "muppets" more control.

What they MEAN is that they PERSONALLY want more control.

Which is the appeal of these fraudsters in DDI.

DDI are making an attempt to put right a secure system for corruption and greed by implementing measures to force politicians to make achievable goals/promises and stick to them. Its funny that you should say "they personaly want more control" when its actually FG that did away with our constitutional right to call referenda so they could have all the control.

Anynama141

Hijpo wrote: »

If our country was run properly and peoples opinions were listend to it could be done differently. They claimed to turn ireland around, instead they made the debt bigger, passed it on down the road for another generation, gambling that inflation will take care of it all.

Fianna Failure, chosen by the people, sold themselves on policies that bankrupted us. They did listen to what people wanted: people wanted it ALL, and they wanted it NOW.

Labour/FG are actually pursuing policies to dig us out of the Fianna Failure hole*, and they are getting murdered for it by the press and public. What does that tell you about the wisdom of our voters?

*although the fact is that we are still spending waaaaay too much, and need more spending cuts/tax rises

MilanPan!c

Hijpo wrote: »

If it was a fair system people would have a democratic/legal way of defending themselves against the lumps of meat in power at the moment without resorting to the freeman ****. Government seem to be able to strip these defences away with the stroke of a pen in the morning, suggest they cut from the top first, oh no no no impossible.



If our country was run properly and peoples opinions were listend to it could be done differently. They claimed to turn ireland around, instead they made the debt bigger, passed it on down the road for another generation, gambling that inflation will take care of it all.



DDI are making an attempt to put right a secure system for corruption and greed by implementing measures to force politicians to make achievable goals/promises and stick to them. Its funny that you should say "they personaly want more control" when its actually FG that did away with our constitutional right to call referenda so they could have all the control.

They're not making a legitimate attempt.

Ben is promising undeliverable stuff, just like his conman buddy Marcus McKeown.

Do you believe all debt is an "illusion"? Do you believe that if you put a trademark symbol after your name you are no longer responsible for your mortgage?

I should hope you don't.

I should also hope that you woundn't vote for someone that is promising OAPs that they can stop paying their credit card bills as soon as they realise that they are "sovereign" and free.

The TRUTH is that the crappy nature of Irish politics has opened the door for these cultist conmen, but the other truth is that voting for lying nutters isn't a real or logical solution to our problems.

Phoebas

Hijpo wrote: »

Do people expect them to be in power in 3 years or something?

Not in 3 years, not in 30 years.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

touts wrote: »

Sometimes Cliches and Stereotypes are the truth.

If we had a genuine Center Right party in power then we would be in a far better position now. We needed Controlled Capitalism instead we got the worst elements of socialism (pandered to the greedy whims of the public service unions) and unfettered free market (pandering to the greedy whims of the bankers/developers).

The problem with the attitude you have is that you'll ONLY see cliches and stereotypes and never a possible alternativve.

While the second part of your argument is correct, it's more because of the human factor than the actual placing on the political spectrum. I'm completely with you on the control capitalism idea - but how do you control it and whom do you trust to control it? Centre right would be the last place I'd place mine simply because of their susceptiblility to the human factor, i.e. greed, fear and the need for social control as well as economical.

In short, I fear it'll just be more of what we've got.

Hijpo

Anynama141 wrote: »

Fianna Failure, chosen by the people, sold themselves on policies that bankrupted us. They did listen to what people wanted: people wanted it ALL, and they wanted it NOW.

Labour/FG are actually pursuing policies to dig us out of the Fianna Failure hole*, and they are getting murdered for it by the press and public. What does that tell you about the wisdom of our voters?

*although the fact is that we are still spending waaaaay too much, and need more spending cuts/tax rises

When people elect politicians we expect them to make the right decisions and not bankrupt a country, to do things above board. Are you blaming the people for the waste and overspending achieved by government because they elected people that gave the impression they were capable of doing a job. You do realise people have nothing to do with what the government did after that because the people are locked out of the decisions a government makes?

FG are greedy spin doctors and Labour are spineless lying sacks of **** all rubbing there hands at the thought of a nice pension.

Noonan called FF comitments to bondholders an obsenity and a disaster, then when he got the job did the exact same thing, so if FF are so bad why is he being allowed to do the same?

Are we only spending WAY to much on necessities?

Anynama141

Hijpo wrote: »

When people elect politicians we expect them to make the right decisions and not bankrupt a country, to do things above board. Are you blaming the people for the waste and overspending achieved by government because they elected people that gave the impression they were capable of doing a job. You do realise people have nothing to do with what the government did after that because the people are locked out of the decisions a government makes?

It's called representative democracy - you choose someone to represent you. People chose Fianna Failure to represent them. Good job, people.

Hijpo wrote: »

FG are greedy spin doctors and Labour are spineless lying sacks of **** all rubbing there hands at the thought of a nice pension.

FG are trying to stop too many tax rises as they feel that will kill employment, so they want spending cuts.

Labour want tax rises because they don't want cuts to public services.

They are in a coalition, so you see a mixture of both. That's how a coalition works.

Hijpo wrote: »

Noonan called FF comitments to bondholders an obsenity and a disaster, then when he got the job did the exact same thing, so if FF are so bad why is he being allowed to do the same?

Because when they got into government, the bailout was a done deal. They could have tried to unwind it, but the results could have been disastrous (or better). It would have been a big risk. Irish politicians don't like taking risks, and sometimes that's even a good thing.

Hijpo

MilanPan!c wrote: »

They're not making a legitimate attempt.

Ben is promising undeliverable stuff, just like his conman buddy Marcus McKeown.

Do you believe all debt is an "illusion"? Do you believe that if you put a trademark symbol after your name you are no longer responsible for your mortgage?

I should hope you don't.

I should also hope that you woundn't vote for someone that is promising OAPs that they can stop paying their credit card bills as soon as they realise that they are "sovereign" and free.

The TRUTH is that the crappy nature of Irish politics has opened the door for these cultist conmen, but the other truth is that voting for lying nutters isn't a real or logical solution to our problems.

No i dont think debt is an illusion, if you owe it you owe it. However how much of a debt you legitimatly own can be contended. No i dont believe any of the freeman nonsence and i never will. Why are people so afraid of a party that aim to bring in a system which frees them of forced opinions?

Ben gilroy is not forcing you to adopt freeman ways is he? hes not making you buy the silly book is he? is he telling you no to pay your bills?

Cody Pomeray

MilanPan!c wrote: »

Ben is promising undeliverable stuff, just like his conman buddy Marcus McKeown.

Do you believe all debt is an "illusion"? Do you believe that if you put a trademark symbol after your name you are no longer responsible for your mortgage?

I should hope you don't.

I presume you mean a Ltd?

In which case he'd be right... company directors cannot be held personally accountable for their company's debts, even if that director is the only shareholder and beneficial 'owner'

Hijpo

Anynama141 wrote: »

It's called representative democracy - you choose someone to represent you. People chose Fianna Failure to represent them. Good job, people.

FG are trying to stop too many tax rises as they feel that will kill employment, so they want spending cuts.

Labour want tax rises because they don't want cuts to public services.

They are in a coalition, so you see a mixture of both. That's how a coalition works.

Because when they got into government, the bailout was a done deal. They could have tried to unwind it, but the results could have been disastrous (or better). It would have been a big risk. Irish politicians don't like taking risks, and sometimes that's even a good thing.

Like i said, if its portrayed that a good job is being done by the people elected and the people elected make all the decisions then how is it the peoples fault when they are locked out of making such decisions? Did the people want to spend a few million on voting machines?

Dont introduce to many taxes, lets hit them at home where we can still get there money but spin it so its not effecting employment.
Labour- "Child benefit will not be cut" lol

Coalition me arse, its a convenient show. They can blame each other for cutting essential services and increasing charges, the very things you claim either one is against.

If the bailout deal was done why did Labour come out and say not one red cent and why were they not pulled on it?

lol they dont take risks? lets hope inflation takes care of it eh?

MilanPan!c

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I presume you mean a Ltd?

In which case he'd be right... company directors cannot be held personally accountable for their company's debts, even if that director is the only shareholder and beneficial 'owner'

No.

He claims that simply putting a trademark symbol after his name protected him from paying his mortgage.

https://peopleforeconomicjustice.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/door-notice.jpg

His buddy McKeown claims that people don't have to pay back any debt owed to any bank.

Do you believe that?

MilanPan!c

Hijpo wrote: »

No i dont think debt is an illusion, if you owe it you owe it. However how much of a debt you legitimatly own can be contended. No i dont believe any of the freeman nonsence and i never will. Why are people so afraid of a party that aim to bring in a system which frees them of forced opinions?

Ben gilroy is not forcing you to adopt freeman ways is he? hes not making you buy the silly book is he? is he telling you no to pay your bills?

Yes, yes, why should we be worried if a politician is going out and promising to help people using debunked conspiracy theories, or is pushing a con man on his website?

Why should we care if he's a member of a group consider to be domestic terrorists in the US?

Surely, surely, that isn't ok with you. It's not ok with most people.

Anynama141

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I presume you mean a Ltd?

In which case he'd be right... company directors cannot be held personally accountable for their company's debts, even if that director is the only shareholder and beneficial 'owner'

Putting 'Ltd' after your name does not form a company.

And no, he meant a trademark sign. Because, according to Ben and the Freemen, you can then stop other people using your name in documents etc...

MilanPan!c

Anynama141 wrote: »

Total nonsense. Putting 'Ltd' after your name does not form a company.

Indeed.

And calling yourself "sovereign" means absolutely nothing legally.

Srianadh

Watching certain posters running to defend Gilroy here reminds me of FF'ers rushing to defend Bertie during the Mahon tribunal! Anyone connected to the Christian Solidarity party is not a friend of mine!

http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/2013/04/12/ad-from-the-christian-solidarity-party-urging-voters-in-meath-east-to-vote-for-ben-gilroy-of-direct-democracy-ireland/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

MilanPan!c

www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/september-2011/sovereign-citizens#disablemobile

That's the FBI talking about Ben's cult.

Note:

Signatures followed by the words “under duress,” “Sovereign Living Soul” (SLS), or a copyright symbol (©)

For some insane reason the Irish freeman/sovereign citizens have decided a tm is better than a (c) but its the same lunacy through and through.

Anynama141

Hijpo wrote: »

Like i said, if its portrayed that a good job is being done by the people elected and the people elected make all the decisions then how is it the peoples fault when they are locked out of making such decisions? Did the people want to spend a few million on voting machines?

I don't understand what this paragraph is supposed to mean, sorry.

Hijpo wrote: »

Dont introduce to many taxes, lets hit them at home where we can still get there money but spin it so its not effecting employment.
Labour- "Child benefit will not be cut" lol

Coalition me arse, its a convenient show. They can blame each other for cutting essential services and increasing charges, the very things you claim either one is against.

How do you propose a coalition works? One side gets all of its policies in place? Why would the other party bother to support them then? Bear in mind too that the people chose a coalition.

Hijpo wrote: »

If the bailout deal was done why did Labour come out and say not one red cent and why were they not pulled on it?

lol they dont take risks? lets hope inflation takes care of it eh?

The bailout deal was done. You are confusing the bailout of Ireland with the bailout of the banks. The banks still had a small number of senior bondholders when the coalition came in - this may be what you are thinking of.

Anynama141

MilanPan!c wrote: »

No.

He claims that simply putting a trademark symbol after his name protected him from paying his mortgage.

https://peopleforeconomicjustice.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/door-notice.jpg

His buddy McKeown claims that people don't have to pay back any debt owed to any bank.

Do you believe that?

You might want to make copies of those images Milan, as I can see Gilroy deleting the ones he can as he attempts to re-write history.

Srianadh

Hijpo wrote: »

If the bailout deal was done why did Labour come out and say not one red cent and why were they not pulled on it?

Point of information: It was Leo Varadkar that said "not another red cent" and he was talking about the banks at the time. (ie: no additional funding over what was already pumped in at that stage - he lied)

MilanPan!c

Anynama141 wrote: »

You might want to make copies of those images Milan, as I can see Gilroy deleting the ones he can as he attempts to re-write history.

Copied, screen captured, and documented online.

Amazing that someone that's hosting that on their website can claim they've nothing to do with the freemen.

Anynama141

Srianadh wrote: »

Point of information: It was Leo Varadkar that said "not another red cent" and he was talking about the banks at the time. (ie: no additional funding over what was already pumped in at that stage - he lied)

Well, to be exact, he said:

“Any bank coming to us looking for more money is going to have to show how they are going to impose losses on their junior bondholders, on their senior bondholders, and on other creditors before they come looking to us for any more money. Not another cent.”

It turns out that, amongst other complications, depositors in the banks are considered to be on the same tier of security as senior bond holders and burning the senior bond holders but protecting depositors could have opened the government to legal challenges.

Also it seems the coalition figured it would be cheaper in the long run to just pay up.

Cody Pomeray

Anynama141 wrote: »

Putting 'Ltd' after your name does not form a company.

Of course not, that wasn't the point. I was talking about registered Ltds.

And no, he meant a trademark sign.

link?