Would you consider voting a Majority Fianna fail for the next government?

bgrizzley

MilanPan!c wrote: »

He put it there as has a downloadable template in his site so others can make their own freeman signs.

You'd know that I you spent half as much time learning about him as you did defending him.

Typical really, you'd rather reach for a crazy conspiracy then check some basic facts - the perfect Gilroy voter.

And hey, if you actually READ his website you could answer all of these questions of yours and more.

But sure, you won't. You'll just come back and argue about stuff you don't know anything about.

lol

read that crazy freeman stuff, are you mad?

DarkJager

Anybody that would consider voting FF again should have their right to vote removed. People that thick, stupid and forgetful don't deserve a say in the election process.

MilanPan!c

bgrizzley wrote: »

lol

read that crazy freeman stuff, are you mad?

Then you'll never know. And sure, that ignorance is what Gilroy and his fellow freeman con men rely on.

yermanoffthetv

MilanPan!c wrote: »

He didn't actually.

And in fact he has refused to ask the only one I've asked him repeatedly.

As for my vote, I don't know. I'm not tied to any party.

Its funny that the people who are so quick to slate DDI never seem to have affiliations or solutions when called on it. Strange that. If you want to bash them fine, but at least back it up with who you think would do a better job.

MilanPan!c

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

Its funny that the people who are so quick to slate DDI never seem to have affiliations or solutions when called on it. Strange that. If you want to bash them fine, but at least back it up with who you think would do a better job.

That's of course nonsense. ^^^

I don't love any political parties, so I shouldn't criticise a lying con man nutter.

[slow clap]

You've really got it all figured out, don't you?

yermanoffthetv

MilanPan!c wrote: »

That's of course nonsense. ^^^

I don't love any political parties, so I shouldn't criticise a lying con man nutter.

[slow clap]

You've really got it all figured out, don't you?

well then just continue with your political apathy *slow clap* this is a thread about FF and the next election. I nailed my colours to the mast and why. You want to start a thread about your political bogeman then your welcome to do so.

Phoebas

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

I nailed my colours to the mast and why.

You sure did - you're a true democrat.

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

If I met someone who says their going to vote Finna Fail Id punch them in the face

paddy147

They are all bad in some way......its just a case of who you think will tell the least amount of lies.


Remember what Pat Rabbit said a few months back about telling lies to get elected....:pac:

yermanoffthetv

Phoebas wrote: »

You sure did - you're a true democrat.

Wow your so clever.any point to this witty rebuke? Thought not. You a floating voter too phoebas?

Anynama141

bgrizzley wrote: »

im not taking the p1ss. you guys are treating boards like its a court of law, i'm just pointing out that all this so called "evidence" is weak. (and im on your side, i think hes a feckin freeman!!!!)

mainstream political parties have been know to use far more underhand tactics than that at election time.;)

Fair enough, but I'm not a political party and it's not election time!

I'm all for constitutional reform and I'm pretty annoyed with the government that they seem to have walked away from it, but I think Direct Democracy couldn't work in practice at a nation state level. We need to take influence out of the hands of gombeens like Phil Hogan, Michael Lowry and Willy O'Dea and make sure that our legislators are there to legislate, not write letters to housing boards or get passports for young Mick or whatever other favours they do to garner votes.

Clientelism is the Achilles heel of our current system, and they've done nothing to address it.

Anynama141

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

Its funny that the people who are so quick to slate DDI never seem to have affiliations or solutions when called on it. Strange that. If you want to bash them fine, but at least back it up with who you think would do a better job.

There is such a thing as a neutral person you know. You don't have to be affiliated to a party to call out a shyster like Gilroy.

Presumably you think all the people debunking the Lizard-person theories on the Conspiracy forum are working for the New World Order?

excalibur the swordsman

YES

Phoebas

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

Wow your so clever.any point to this witty rebuke?

It does illustrate a contradiction in your position. You support a party who say they are about giving more choice to the people, but you are prepared to use violence against your political opponents.

jjbrien

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aBaX9GPSaQ

Should do this for those who try to vote FF

yermanoffthetv

Anynama141 wrote: »

Fair enough, but I'm not a political party and it's not election time!

I'm all for constitutional reform and I'm pretty annoyed with the government that they seem to have walked away from it, but I think Direct Democracy couldn't work in practice at a nation state level. We need to take influence out of the hands of gombeens like Phil Hogan, Michael Lowry and Willy O'Dea and make sure that our legislators are there to legislate, not write letters to housing boards or get passports for young Mick or whatever other favours they do to garner votes.

Clientelism is the Achilles heel of our current system, and they've done nothing to address it.

Direct democracy is in place in Switzerland and they seem to be doing ok. FG had a great chance to inject some expertise with George lee but they failed to utilise his talent and blew a great opportunity. This is one example of many why i don't think the current system will weed out the gombeen politician.

Fair enough anynama plenty of people are neutral and that's ok, if you want to hate Ben gilroy too that's cool, id prefer they'd do it elsewhere and focus on the policys and ideas. I just feel that this is an opportunity to give some tiny shred of liberty back to the people by changing the system so its not dependant on the gombeen tds you mentioned.its no magic solution to a better country but i feel its a start. That's what i think on the issue anyway.

losthorizon

What this poll proves is that 20 of Irish people are idiots or Mossad agents bent on Irelands destruction.


Eamonn O'Cuiv is still lurking about in FF and has been up to his usual wacky stuff recently despite not been in government. Wait till he gets in. Thats whats really scary.

yermanoffthetv

Phoebas wrote: »

It does illustrate a contradiction in your position. You support a party who say they are about giving more choice to the people, but you are prepared to use violence against your political opponents.

Quoting a figurative description of my anger and trying to portray it as literal evidence of how i interact with real people. If you are in fact serious and not simply trolling for a reaction I retract my earlier description of witty. Its just pathetic.

Rightwing

FF gives things to the people. FG & Labour takes them away.

Now I know they give themselves a lot more, like bertie gave himself around 300% pay rise over the years.

MilanPan!c

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

Direct democracy is in place in Switzerland and they seem to be doing ok. FG had a great chance to inject some expertise with George lee but they failed to utilise his talent and blew a great opportunity. This is one example of many why i don't think the current system will weed out the gombeen politician.

Fair enough anynama plenty of people are neutral and that's ok, if you want to hate Ben gilroy too that's cool, id prefer they'd do it elsewhere and focus on the policys and ideas. I just feel that this is an opportunity to give some tiny shred of liberty back to the people by changing the system so its not dependant on the gombeen tds you mentioned.its no magic solution to a better country but i feel its a start. That's what i think on the issue anyway.

It's also been used to very destructive ends in California.

DD like Representative Democracy isn't a solution, it's a tool. Used wisely, it's grand, but then again, some social scientists from MIT and the LSE found it created anti-immigrant policies in Switzerland and wasn't as accountable as normal representative democracy on a local level.

But, sure, I'm sure you didn't even both to check the facts, did you?

As for "hating" Ben Gilroy, I don't hate him any more than I "hate" any other criminal. But trying to separate his insane cultish beliefs from the party he is the mouthpiece for is patently absurd.

And frankly, it's desperate behaviour.. and of course, the group most targeted by cults and con men are the desperate.

MilanPan!c

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

well then just continue with your political apathy *slow clap* this is a thread about FF and the next election. I nailed my colours to the mast and why. You want to start a thread about your political bogeman then your welcome to do so.

You wanna push a con man, expect to find me there debunking your crap.

uberalles

It will be a sad day that FF get back in

Anynama141

Rightwing wrote: »

FF gives things to the people. FG & Labour takes them away.

Fianna Failure borrowed from the people of today to give to the people of 2000-2007. The problems we have now are the consequence. And Labour and FG are the bad guys for trying to fix the problem, so Fianna Failure will come back in when the economy is fixed, buy more elections and f*ck it up again.

Rightwing

Anynama141 wrote: »

Fianna Failure borrowed from the people of today to give to the people of 2000-2007. The problems we have now are the consequence. And Labour and FG are the bad guys for trying to fix the problem, so Fianna Failure will come back in when the economy is fixed, buy more elections and f*ck it up again.

That's about it summed up. Only thing is: will it ever get fixed.

Podgerz

Never

yermanoffthetv

MilanPan!c wrote: »

It's also been used to very destructive ends in California.

DD like Representative Democracy isn't a solution, it's a tool. Used wisely, it's grand, but then again, some social scientists from MIT and the LSE found it created anti-immigrant policies in Switzerland and wasn't as accountable as normal representative democracy on a local level.

But, sure, I'm sure you didn't even both to check the facts, did you?

As for "hating" Ben Gilroy, I don't hate him any more than I "hate" any other criminal. But trying to separate his insane cultish beliefs from the party he is the mouthpiece for is patently absurd.

And frankly, it's desperate behaviour.. and of course, the group most targeted by cults and con men are the desperate.

Switzerland and California are not in the eu and subject to European law in relation to immigrants and their rights but you couldn't be bothered checking that either, could you?

Cody Pomeray

MilanPan!c wrote: »

Tell us, do you think that document he posted is legally meaningful? Would it stand up in a court of law?

Of course not.
Personally I think that document is hilarious. Maybe Ben Gilroy has a sense of humour too. I don't know if he's a freeman, but I can very vaguely see why he would associate with them... both parties would appear to believe that reasonable access to self governance is a sham in this country.

I think a lot of people would agree with that, though, not just Ben Gilroy.

MilanPan!c wrote: »

some social scientists from MIT and the LSE found it created anti-immigrant policies in Switzerland

Yes a lot of people are anti immigration. I think that's sad. But so be it. Either we want the public to collectively determine, or preserve, what they see as their long term interests, within the confines of international law, or we do not.

You can't say "I'm all for democracy as long as it promotes my political opinions and not the majority opinion", because that's clearly a contradiction.

MilanPan!c

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Of course not.
Personally I think that document is hilarious. Maybe Ben Gilroy has a sense of humour too. I don't know if he's a freeman, but I can very vaguely see why he would associate with them... both parties would appear to believe that reasonable access to self governance is a sham in this country.

I think a lot of people would agree with that, though, not just Ben Gilroy.

Yes a lot of people are anti immigration. I think that's sad. But so be it. Either we want the public to collectively determine, or preserve, what they see as their long term interests, within the confines of international law, or we do not.

You can't say "I'm all for democracy as long as it promotes my political opinions and not the majority opinion", because that's clearly a contradiction.

He doesn't just post it on his door, he makes it available as a temple on his website and encourages people to use it.

So... nothing funny about that.

As far as you thinking that bad policies are grand, as long as they're popular, can I refer to a little known Irish phenomena known as the "Celtic Tiger".

Popular !=! right.

The whole point of representative democracy is to find exemplars and let them lead and decide. People that dedicate their life to knowing enough to make wise decisions.

If you don't like the decisions of your rep., vote them out.

Who do I vote out if I don't like a policy pushed through by an angry populas, misled by a special interest? That's happened repeatedly in California, with disastrous results.

And hey, DD wasn't even ON the ballot, crazy Freeman looney was.

MilanPan!c

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

Switzerland and California are not in the eu and subject to European law in relation to immigrants and their rights but you couldn't be bothered checking that either, could you?

Ahhhhh... so you think DD will be check by the EU.

What if DDI decides to push a policy to reject specific EUs laws?

Hmmmm...?

bgrizzley

MilanPan!c wrote: »

The whole point of representative democracy is to find exemplars and let them lead and decide. People that dedicate their life to knowing enough to make wise decisions.

lol, thats working out well...

MilanPan!c

bgrizzley wrote: »

lol, thats working out well...

Who's fault is that exactly??