€116,000 Consultant positions being snubbed

Montroseee

First of all I bear no resent towards people in the medical profession, I know several and they have put everything into their academic performance from a very young age. Despite this, I found the the contents of this article shocking.

I know they have received significant cuts in pay but so has literally everyone else - I know pharmacists on (no exaggeration) half the pay they were 6 or 7 years ago. Putting newly recruited members on lower contracts than existing has been common in the private sector for years. Seemingly consultants view themselves untouchable.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/116000-hospital-jobs-go-unfilled-29163747.html

steddyeddy

Right they should really cop onto themselves. One of the scientists who won the noble prize for discovering cyclin dependent kinases (responsible for regulating the cell cycle, so really important in cancer research) is on about 80,000 a year and he's smarter than most consultants.

Montroseee

steddyeddy wrote: »

Right they should really cop onto themselves. One of the scientists who won the noble prize for discovering cyclin dependent kinases (responsible for regulating the cell cycle, so really important in cancer research) is on about 80,000 a year and he's smarter than most consultants.

A similar consultant in Germany will be doing well to ever break 100k, same story with the UK.

Amirani

Should we force them into the jobs? If they decide they don't want to accept 116k per year and feel they can earn more elsewhere then there's not much we can do about it (other than offering more of course).

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Il do it...I can consult things.

Mr. Wong

Sure they're getting more on the dole.

discus

Praetorian Saighdiuir wrote: »

Il do it...I can consult things.

I'll do it for less than this guy will, and the plus side is that people can pronounce my name easily.

Dr. Praetorian Saighdiuir.... no ring to it. gime gime job!

steddyeddy

Bring people over who will do it. They're just as qualified.

Mena

It's really not that much money unless you're a student or some such tbh.

Sulla Felix

NiallSparky wrote: »

Should we force them into the jobs? If they decide they don't want to accept 116k per year and feel they can earn more elsewhere then there's not much we can do about it (other than offering more of course).

Recruit from abroad. We pay higher than most European countries.

HondaSami

I might apply, can i consult AH daily to help me make decisions?

Praetorian Saighdiuir

discus wrote: »

I'll do it for less than this guy will, and the plus side is that people can pronounce my name easily.

Dr. Praetorian Saighdiuir.... no ring to it. gime gime job!

Hey hey Dr. Disc

I can be your co-consultant. When you balls up il take the blame but I want ALL the lollypops!

HondaSami

steddyeddy wrote: »

Bring people over who will do it. They're just as qualified.

Over from where? how do you know they are just as qualified?

Jumboman

Montroseee wrote: »

First of all I bear no resent towards people in the medical profession, I know several and they have put everything into their academic performance from a very young age. Despite this, I found the the contents of this article shocking.

I know they have received significant cuts in pay but so has literally everyone else - I know pharmacists on (no exaggeration) half the pay they were 6 or 7 years ago. Putting newly recruited members on lower contracts than existing has been common in the private sector for years. Seemingly consultants view themselves untouchable.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/116000-hospital-jobs-go-unfilled-29163747.html

It just shows that they didnt get into medicine to help people but to line their own pockets.

Montroseee

Jumboman wrote: »

It just shows that they didnt get into medicine to help people but to line their own pockets.

That's exactly what sprung too mind when I first read this

wonski

I also think doctors, consultants and anyone who actually took his/her time to go through all the education stages and rather difficult, and time consuming studies deserves to be well paid. But if 100k or more is not enough, then what is enough???

ManMade

So young to be consultants are emigrating for better pay and conditions and we're saying being in foreign doctors of same qualifications and give them sh*te conditions. From where?

wonski

HondaSami wrote: »

Over from where? how do you know they are just as qualified?

There are many ways to check if one is qualified... There are already many foreign consultants working in Ireland. Same in UK.

Morag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHlvoUGYiyQ

BarryLyndon

Whatever about the cash, medical professionals will typically have to be more mobile than most other careers when it comes to their training. I guess if one were already in that frame of mind, moving overseas wouldn't seem like much of a barrier

Montroseee

BarryLyndon wrote: »

Whatever about the cash, medical professionals will typically have to be more mobile than most other careers when it comes to their training. I guess if one were already in that frame of mind, moving overseas wouldn't seem like much of a barrier

It seems only america, oz and canada offer better starting salaries

steddyeddy

HondaSami wrote: »

Over from where? how do you know they are just as qualified?

A doctorate in Ireland is not worth substantially more than doctorate in any other country. If you're still not sure then research the standard of the country of origin.

southsiderosie

Montroseee wrote: »

A similar consultant in Germany will be doing well to ever break 100k, same story with the UK.

Do you have actual figures for that? Plus I think the real question here is, how much would a doctor at a similar level in similar fields make in English speaking countries (US, CAN, UK, Aus, NZ)? For example, the US has a shortage of primary care physicians, and doctors in inner-city and rural areas. A hospital physician in the US also makes, on average, $165K, and specialists make much more than that.

Dr Nic

steddyeddy wrote: »

Right they should really cop onto themselves. One of the scientists who won the noble prize for discovering cyclin dependent kinases (responsible for regulating the cell cycle, so really important in cancer research) is on about 80,000 a year and he's smarter than most consultants.

Well does he get rostered to be on call 24 hours a day maybe 2x a week forever? And get to go to court when one of his overworked underlings makes a mistake, not even him

All in (esp life style and villification deserved or no) irish consultants are not well paid vs uk aus canada nz. Hate all you want but who do you want in charge when you have your heart attack?

MMAGirl

100k is nothing. They can easily earn this abroad. Probably have a better standard of living too. And not have to listen to begrudging fcukers all day either.
Seems thats how it goes in Ireland now. Someone is always complaining if anyone else is doing better than them. We're Irish, lets drag em all down with us. Shame on them for being in a position to command a few bob.

southsiderosie

Jumboman wrote: »

It just shows that they didnt get into medicine to help people but to line their own pockets.

Montroseee wrote: »

That's exactly what sprung too mind when I first read this

I disagree.

Anyone, regardless of their field, would like to be treated in a comparable way to their colleagues. This includes both wages and working conditions. If the wages are lower in Ireland, and the HSE is run more poorly than other health care systems, then I don't blame physicians from looking elsewhere.

That said, I do think that if the government (i.e. the public) is footing the bill for medical education, then doctors should have some obligation to work for the HSE (for at least a set period of time). If they want to opt out, then they should refund the state for their education. But I'm not Irish, so I have no idea how this works - who picks up the cost of medical school?

L.Jenkins

If someone offered me €116,000 a year, I take it along with their arm.

Montroseee

MMAGirl wrote: »

100k is nothing. They can easily earn this abroad. Probably have a better standard of living too. And not have to listen to begrudging fcukers all day either.
Seems thats how it goes in Ireland now. Someone is always complaining if anyone else is doing better than them. We're Irish, lets drag em all down with us. Shame on them for being in a position to command a few bob.

100 k is nothing is it? 100k is inside the top 1% of earners in this country

Montroseee

southsiderosie wrote: »

I disagree.

Anyone, regardless of their field, would like to be treated in a comparable way to their colleagues. This includes both wages and working conditions. If the wages are lower in Ireland, and the HSE is run more poorly than other health care systems, then I don't blame physicians from looking elsewhere.

That said, I do think that if the government (i.e. the public) is footing the bill for medical education, then doctors should have some obligation to work for the HSE (for at least a set period of time). If they want to opt out, then they should refund the state for their education. But I'm not Irish, so I have no idea how this works - who picks up the cost of medical school?

The government does.

af_thefragile

The HSE has no clue what they're doing.

Firstly you can't cut down pay by making doctors work less hours without recruiting more doctors to make up for the shorter work hours. All this has resulted in is that most junior doctors end up working more than 30-40hrs extra a week getting paid absolutely nothing. As a doctor you have responsibilities and you can't simply walk away at 5pm or whenever your shift ends because you've got to make sure you finish all the jobs before you can leave, which obviously isn't going to be all done by the time your shift is over because there aren't many doctors on your team to do the jobs when your shift is done. So you stay back another 3-6hrs every day finishing all your jobs for no pay!

Then as HSE has decided it isn't going to increase the number of jobs and infact is cutting down on the number of jobs, there are many junior doctors who have no jobs in Ireland anymore. The ones who have jobs are slaving away in jobs with absolutely uncertain futures where they have no idea if they'll get a job in 6months time forget managing to finish their years long training and getting a consultant job.

While at the same time in countries like Australia and USA, if you get into their training programs, you get excellent medical training, you are no longer working >40hrs every week for no pay, you know your training will be complete in a set number of years and after that you will be fully trained to go wherever you want in the world and apply for a consultant job and you will overall have a much better life.

There is no wonder most doctors are fleeing this country to move to other places where they have much better opportunities and certainty towards pursuing their medical career.

southsiderosie

Itzy wrote: »

If someone offered me €116,000 a year, I take it along with their arm.

You would be foolish to do so if everyone else in your field was making €186,000